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I've forgotten all about Cloud beating up Aeris, I thought you were talking about the "Press Circle to proceed" scene at the City of The Ancients. I should replay two first discs of FF VII again, I suppose.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:12
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Pureauthor posted:Just turn Fort Condor into a rail shooter segment or some poo poo, anything would be better than that slow-rear end minigame. That mini game was before its time - it's the earliest example of tower defense I can think of.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:15
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Fister Roboto posted:It looks like you've forgotten more than just that, because Cloud is pretty aloof when it comes to Aeris. And Aeris only likes him because he reminds her of her ex-boyfriend Yeah, it's been forever since I played it, but what's really weird is that Cloud basically thinks he's Zack, and Tifa was there for everything in the beginning. Why isn't Tifa like "yo Cloud, um, you didn't actually do all that stuff"? Is it kinda like how in FF8 everybody grew up in the same orphanage but they all conveniently forgot except for Irvine who just didn't think to tell anyone?
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Jun 18, 2015 14:15
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What I hate about the Irvine thing is that his nerve thing could also get chalked up to not wanting to shoot his mom. Sure, his scan data says something about nerves, but that quirk isn't shown again for the rest of the game as far as I know. Granted, I'm not about to double check.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:21
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Gammatron 64 posted:Is it kinda like how in FF8 everybody grew up in the same orphanage but they all conveniently forgot except for Irvine who just didn't think to tell anyone? I thought that was supposed to be because using GFs caused memory loss or whatever
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Jun 18, 2015 14:21
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Gammatron 64 posted:Yeah, it's been forever since I played it, but what's really weird is that Cloud basically thinks he's Zack, and Tifa was there for everything in the beginning. Why isn't Tifa like "yo Cloud, um, you didn't actually do all that stuff"? She explains that when exploring Cloud's mind in Mideel. From the very first time they re-united at the train station, she could tell his story was full of holes. By the time we got to the Kalm flashback, he was scaring the poo poo out of her because she could tell he'd completely swapped his own identity with that of a different person. But she didn't speak up because she didn't want to risk him losing it or leaving her again. Tifa and Cloud are both deeply mentally ill (and not in a ha-ha funny way, Tifa's legit co-dependent and Cloud's got dissociative issues and possible schizophrenia even if the cause was alien space magic), but resolve at the end to keep soldering on regardless of their damage.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:22
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Oxxidation posted:She explains that when exploring Cloud's mind in Mideel. From the very first time they re-united at the train station, she could tell his story was full of holes. By the time we got to the Kalm flashback, he was scaring the poo poo out of her because she could tell he'd completely swapped his own identity with that of a different person. But she didn't speak up because she didn't want to risk him losing it or leaving her again. Well, there's also the fact that she had no clue how she got out of Nibelheim alive either, and as such couldn't be sure she wasn't the one with faulty memories. It's not until you find the note her master, the first Kamen Rider, left her hidden in her piano that she finds out how that happened.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:25
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FF7 is a weird game because nobody seems to remember it properly, which is strangely appropriate.MonsieurChoc posted:Well, there's also the fact that she had no clue how she got out of Nibelheim alive either, and as such couldn't be sure she wasn't the one with faulty memories. It's not until you find the note her master, the first Kamen Rider, left her hidden in her piano that she finds out how that happened. She did know how, but she lied about it because it conflicted with Cloud's false memories.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:25
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Level Slide posted:What I hate about the Irvine thing is that his nerve thing could also get chalked up to not wanting to shoot his mom. Sure, his scan data says something about nerves, but that quirk isn't shown again for the rest of the game as far as I know. I'm 70% sure it was all about your said reason and he just made up the nerves thing.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:26
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Fister Roboto posted:She did know how, but she lied about it because it conflicted with Cloud's false memories. No, she just woke up at some doctor's place. You have to play the piano in Disc 2 to find Zangan's note.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:27
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One thing I do remember about FF7 is that while playing the game, it barely made any goddamn sense. I guess you can chalk that up to the poor translation or... something. I remember when we were kids, we were like "if you don't understand the story, that means it's totally DEEP, man! Like the Matrix!"
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Jun 18, 2015 14:35
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Gammatron 64 posted:One thing I do remember about FF7 is that while playing the game, it barely made any goddamn sense. I guess you can chalk that up to the poor translation or... something. I went back and played it like ten years after my first go (I'm so oooollld) and it's pretty coherent even under the muddled translation. There's a bunch of loose ends, obviously - Red XIII barely has any point beyond Square showing off their new talent for model variety, the whole Huge Materia quest is little more than a complicated excuse to go in a submarine and up to space - but there was a lot of thought and genuine heart put into that game. It's not all about the spiky hair and giant swords!
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Jun 18, 2015 14:38
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I hope Nomura puts a bunch of belts on Red 13
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Jun 18, 2015 14:40
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corn in the bible posted:I hope Nomura puts a bunch of belts on Red 13 I hope Nomura puts a sailor suit on Red XIII.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:42
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Another reason for Tifa doubting her memories is the fact she doesn't know Cloud was at Nibelheim. She never knew he was that one grunt so she's understandably confused when Cloud has a pretty good recollection of everything that went down there when he wasn't supposed to be there at all, according to her memory.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:42
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I think Nomura is a terrible character designer and just about everything he's done post-FF7 original has been the ugliest most garish overdesigned poo poo ever. Now he's busy making ugly action figures of DC superheroes. The original FF7 designs are fine though because that's before he felt the need to cover everyone with belts and zippers.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:43
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I haven't played the FFXV demo but I think those guys have a normal amount of belts at least
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Jun 18, 2015 14:44
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Help Im Alive posted:I thought that was supposed to be because using GFs caused memory loss or whatever That's exactly what it is (a plot point that I believe is actually referenced in the computer files right at the beginning of the game). Irvine does remember due to not using GFs - I believe the explanation for why he says nothing is because he was ashamed at having been so completely forgotton.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:46
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The FFXV dudes are in fact too normal and boring and could do with some more belts or at least something that isn't black to wear.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:48
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think Nomura is a terrible character designer and just about everything he's done post-FF7 original has been the ugliest most garish overdesigned poo poo ever. Now he's busy making ugly action figures of DC superheroes. The original FF7 designs are fine though because that's before he felt the need to cover everyone with belts and zippers. Nomura looks like he's finally started to rein in his excesses a little bit, though the damage inflicted by Dirge of Cerberus' character designs will be with us forever. Type-0's outfits were fairly reserved (though the students' jackets use tiny belts instead of buttons because of course they do), and the tiger-armor the enemy nation wears is ballin'.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:49
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poo poo I can see getting cut: - Fort Condor - Huge Materia Quest - Maybe space out the silly Elena and snowboarding stuff following Aeris's death.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:49
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Gammatron 64 posted:I think Nomura is a terrible character designer and just about everything he's done post-FF7 original has been the ugliest most garish overdesigned poo poo ever. Now he's busy making ugly action figures of DC superheroes. The original FF7 designs are fine though because that's before he felt the need to cover everyone with belts and zippers. I've always liked Seifer's design.  Also if you cut Huge Materia quest no going into outer space which is the resolution to Cid's subplot and helps him stop being an abusive rear end in a top hat. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 14:50
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After re-reading this past page, I remember that they really did have some fairly nuanced characters for a video game in 1997. Whether that was intentional or just pure dumb luck is whole other question. Also, second only to people forgetting Cloud was actually kind of a goofball is everyone forgetting that Aerith was kind of a sassy tomboy weirdo. Somehow over the years in the collective memory she got turned into the "pure-hearted magical girl". If anything, that was more Tifa.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:57
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NikkolasKing posted:Also if you cut Huge Materia quest no going into outer space which is the resolution to Cid's subplot and helps him stop being an abusive rear end in a top hat. Pull all the huge materia on the rocket and keep that scene in.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:58
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Sakurazuka posted:The FFXV dudes are in fact too normal and boring and could do with some more belts or at least something that isn't black to wear. The thing about an extended road trip is you start it wearing normal clothes, but at least one of the passengers will be in at least an aloha shirt and shutter shades by the end of it. That's my hope, at least.
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Jun 18, 2015 14:59
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I feel like Nomura's worst Final Fantasy design is often overlooked because of the long shadow cast by Dirge of Cerberus. This dude owns. Even Shalua and DARKNESS guy (the two most extreme examples that leap to mind) have okay elements when you take them in isolation - the labcoat, the bodysuit, whatever. There isn't anything about Nooj that's remotely acceptable.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:27
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No one cares about Nooj because Black the Black exists.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:36
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CottonWolf posted:I hope Nomura puts a sailor suit on Red XIII. I know I'm looking forward to Red's Shinra disguise on the PS4.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:45
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HD DAD posted:After re-reading this past page, I remember that they really did have some fairly nuanced characters for a video game in 1997. Whether that was intentional or just pure dumb luck is whole other question. Could it be because you don't see much of Aeris's sassy tomboy weirdo side after Midgar? I can't remember if you ever see it at all after Midgar. The most striking image of Aeris is her praying while she gets stabbed. The battles are also at odds with that characterization. Most people remember Tifa being the badass girl that kicks robots to death while Aeris is the girl you use for healing. Having played it a few years ago, I still don't think of Cloud as a goofball. Was it just "Let's mosey"? I always chalked that up to weird translation since I didn't remember him saying anything else like that.
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Jun 18, 2015 15:51
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slev posted:I don't remember Yuffie hinting at liking Cloud at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQnCmEsa_MA&t=370s Cloud 
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Jun 18, 2015 15:54
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Having played it a few years ago, I still don't think of Cloud as a goofball. Was it just "Let's mosey"? I always chalked that up to weird translation since I didn't remember him saying anything else like that. In Junon he decides to share his 'super secret move' with a bunch of grunt soldiers and it's literally just his victory pose. After the boat ride he can tell Barret that his sailor suit made him look like 'a teddy-bear wearing a marshmallow.'
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Jun 18, 2015 15:55
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Could it be because you don't see much of Aeris's sassy tomboy weirdo side after Midgar? I can't remember if you ever see it at all after Midgar. The most striking image of Aeris is her praying while she gets stabbed. The battles are also at odds with that characterization. Most people remember Tifa being the badass girl that kicks robots to death while Aeris is the girl you use for healing. Cloud has a lot of really dorky lines. They come more blatant after he gets fixed but his disguise occasionally slips even before that. They're not "Let's Mosey" calibur but he gets flustered or frustrated or embarassed pretty easily at times. The translation doesn't help that but it's noticable. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Jun 18, 2015 |
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Jun 18, 2015 15:56
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My personal favorite isquote:Shinra dog!! I'm gonna dognap you!!
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Jun 18, 2015 15:58
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That and the fact that he's a grizzled veteran of motion sickness. Super-SOLDIER extraordinaire, defeated by a slow-moving truck.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:29
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Wada talked about new developments in the Shinra Technologies cloud gaming project. I expected more of a blowout but it's just the same tech demo we've seen before and new concept art for projects with their development partners. The developers they're working with are Hardsuit Labs (former heads of Zombie Studios), Camoflaj, and Human Head.   I'm curious to what you guys think of Wada now that's he's fully expunged from Square-Enix proper and only works at the Shinra Technologies subsidiary. His incumbency as CEO will probably be looked back with mixed reception. The Final Fantasy brand suffered heavy damage under his tenure. Likewise, Kingdom Hearts went from a powerful brand to one that had sporadic entries that had a fraction of their previous commercial success. Many mid-tier properties were shelved to focus on Final Fantasy, Kingdom Hearts, and Dragon Quest. Revived brands, such as Front Mission Evolved and Parasite Eve The Third Birthday, didn't satisfy old fans or find commercial success with new audiences. A good deal of longtime Square talent left the company either due to burn out, a lack of upward mobility/compensation, or just not being able to work on the games they wanted to make. However, no other Japanese publisher did much better in the AAA console market due to the rising costs of development, the fierce competition from Western publishers, and the global financial crisis. Wada probably made the right moves in identifying that the Japanese console gaming industry was stagnating they need to expand to new markets and platforms. The Eidos acquisition helped them diversify their portfolio and gain direct access to Western know-how. Eidos Head Phil Rogers was fast tracked onto the board of directors to give upper management more focus global trends. He hired international talent so his Japanese developers could make products with international appeal. Furthermore, Wada wanted developers to be more efficient in development by exposing them to new development practices and technologies. Even as far back as FFXII's development, he was interested in investing in middleware to cut down on costs and development time. He gave developers more time and resources than most publishers were willing to give or even afford. The company would have been in a much more vulnerable state if they had just focused on making Japanese console games targeted at Japanese audiences. When compared to Capcom/Konami/SEGA, Square-Enix is practicing a variety of different business models while still investing heavily in console games. I think Wada's two biggest mistakes were underestimating the costs of competing in AAA and giving creative leads too much leniency. He thought he could go from 3 mega-franchises to 10 within a few years. Like many other Japanese companies, Square-Enix was not well-equipped to handle jump in costs of competing in AAA. It didn't help that his Japanese developers were struggling to adapt to the demands of HD game development. He gave a lot of managerial power and resources to his top talent who were not keeping up with global trends. Wada was slow in taking addressing the managerial and technological problems affecting his top developers. By the time he licensed Unreal Engine 3 and hired outside technical expertise, the games were already off the rails due to their poor project management. When the Final Fantasy games started to slip past release dates, most Western publishers would have immediately kicked out the leads and replaced them with people who could get the game out in time. Oxxidation posted:Nomura looks like he's finally started to rein in his excesses a little bit, though the damage inflicted by Dirge of Cerberus' character designs will be with us forever. Type-0's outfits were fairly reserved (though the students' jackets use tiny belts instead of buttons because of course they do), and the tiger-armor the enemy nation wears is ballin'. Roberto Ferrari and other artists, such as Yusuke Naora, are being featured more prominently in their new games. In general, Square-Enix seems to want their Japanese games to be more attractive to overseas audiences. Ferrari was hired to give characters more of an international appeal. Naora has talked about how he tries have an art style and character design that appeals to both Japanese and Western audiences, such as his work for The Last Remnant. NikkolasKing posted:I've always liked Seifer's design. I like Seifer in general. The game should have starred him as a Dirty Harry type SeeD who is criticized for his methods but gets the job done. And then he goes rogue after Headmaster Cid tells him he's out of line and has to hand in his badge and gunblade.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:49
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That would have been a much better FF8 than the dreck we got.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:52
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Cloud is a loving dork, and it's easily the most interesting thing about him. Don't ruin him, Nomura.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:56
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Sunning posted:I'm curious to what you guys think of Wada now that's he's fully expunged from Square-Enix proper and only works at the Shinra Technologies subsidiary. Wada is a hard man to judge since he nearly ran the company into the ground but then immediately made some really unexpected business decisions that turned things around. I personally will always like him since I like the ff13 trilogy, the Eidos games, and the ff14 remake.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:14
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He's rumoured to be the man who keeps enabling Yoko Taro, so I am extremely sad to see him go.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:18
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Aurain posted:He's rumoured to be the man who keeps enabling Yoko Taro, so I am extremely sad to see him go. Well, Nier got a sequel so it seems that won't be an issue.
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Jun 18, 2015 17:19
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