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Siljmonster posted:emulated backwards comparability is dumb why is everyone acting like this is some amazing herculean feat of magical engineering anyway? apple had rosetta all the way back in 2006 and performance was often better than ppc, and this was on way slower x86 cpus than whats in the xbone i think so anyway, it is amd after all so its possible its equivalent to a 2006 og core duo
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Jun 21, 2015 17:52
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TerminalRaptor posted:wavebirds. god drat.. wavebird ftw
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Jun 21, 2015 17:56
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Beeftweeter posted:why is everyone acting like this is some amazing herculean feat of magical engineering anyway? apple had rosetta all the way back in 2006 and performance was often better than ppc, and this was on way slower x86 cpus than whats in the xbone The 360's cores run at 3.2 GHz and the Xbone cores run at 1.8 GHz (but there are more of them); it'll depend on code structure but if some serial programming expects to have a 3.2 GHz core available the Xbone is kind of hosed, and console games tend to be programmed with a lot less tolerance for speed variations since everyone's supposed to be running the exact same hardware; some devs even reported certain SKU's with really minor hardware variances would gently caress up their games in testing because of how tight the tolerance was.
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Jun 21, 2015 17:57
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Beeftweeter posted:also the lineup of backwards compatible games is hilariously pathetic it turns out in the real world, not the one where you pull your emulator off of zophar.net and games off of coolroms, one of the biggest hurdles in old software support is the licensing. Something wii and wii u owners have been taught, repeatedly, over the past 10 years. jesus christ its been months change your avatar you occupy this annoying middle ground between actually being sorta informed and just posting like pram and smythe and it results in the worst long form floppy frog dicked turds i have to pass by every time I open this thread up. moron izzard fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 17:57
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A Yolo Wizard posted:it turns out in the real world, not the one where you pull your emulator off of zophar.net and games off of coolroms, the biggest hurdle in old software support is the licensing. Something wii and wii u owners have been taught, repeatedly, over the past 10 years. You know the Wii U's processor is built off the Wii, which is built off the Gamecube right? A Wii U can 100% natively run Wii and (unofficially) Gamecube games because the actual hardware is all in there. Further back the emulation is software-based but there's enough of a technological jump that it can usually be made to work, although some games are hosed enough technologically that the Wii VC can't handle them.
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Jun 21, 2015 18:00
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univbee posted:You know the Wii U's processor is built off the Wii, which is built off the Gamecube right? A Wii U can 100% natively run Wii and (unofficially) Gamecube games because the actual hardware is all in there. Further back the emulation is software-based but there's enough of a technological jump that it can usually be made to work, although some games are hosed enough technologically that the Wii VC can't handle them. I'm talking about people whinging about why their favorite nes or snes rom is not available for sale. I'm completely aware of how (relatively) easy it is to even get triforce arcade games working on a wii u. moron izzard fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Jun 21, 2015 18:04
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Smythe posted:god drat.. wavebird ftw qft thw wavebird is the best controller ever
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Jun 21, 2015 18:40
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univbee posted:The 360's cores run at 3.2 GHz and the Xbone cores run at 1.8 GHz (but there are more of them); it'll depend on code structure but if some serial programming expects to have a 3.2 GHz core available the Xbone is kind of hosed, and console games tend to be programmed with a lot less tolerance for speed variations since everyone's supposed to be running the exact same hardware; some devs even reported certain SKU's with really minor hardware variances would gently caress up their games in testing because of how tight the tolerance was. i don't think they're exactly equivalent, a 1.5 ghz core duo could run code intended to be run on a 1.5 ghz g4 fairly easily and faster in benchmarks. even then digital foundry's thing says that because of the way its implemented its more like 6 1.6 ghz threads even then i doubt it emulates everything completely and almost certainly dynamically recompiles code. i dont think they'll ever get performance to be 100% though, they should have gone with an intel cpu A Yolo Wizard posted:it turns out in the real world, not the one where you pull your emulator off of zophar.net and games off of coolroms, one of the biggest hurdles in old software support is the licensing. Something wii and wii u owners have been taught, repeatedly, over the past 10 years. still you would think they could bribe some publishers to put out better poo poo. also virtual console had a pretty good lineup (for the supported systems anyway) when it launched and emulation has always been almost perfect. i realize they're way way simpler systems though
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Jun 21, 2015 18:40
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lol the console CPUs that try to leverage parallelism always wind up loving developers over
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Jun 21, 2015 19:40
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Beeftweeter posted:why is everyone acting like this is some amazing herculean feat of magical engineering anyway? apple had rosetta all the way back in 2006 and performance was often better than ppc, and this was on way slower x86 cpus than whats in the xbone
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Jun 21, 2015 20:13
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hello Microsoft, please give me a working version of rm -rf, asap. put in a new ssd and move the old hd to the optical bay. reinstalled to get rid of cruft. some folders that used to be VERY IMPORTANT on the old hd still can't be deleted without clicking around and changing ownership and permissions for each goddamn folder. booting a Linux from a thumbdrive solved all this. good job MS!
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Jun 21, 2015 20:14
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axolotl farmer posted:hello Microsoft,
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Jun 21, 2015 20:27
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I'm only janitoring my own goddamn laptop, and if it's easier to do something by booting a janky rear end Linux than doing it inside Windows then something is wrong.
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Jun 21, 2015 20:31
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axolotl farmer posted:I'm only janitoring my own goddamn laptop, and if it's easier to do something by booting a janky rear end Linux than doing it inside Windows then something is wrong. yeah, odd how booting into another OS that completely ignores the hosts file security makes it easier to do whatever the gently caress you want to the filesystem, weird man
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Jun 21, 2015 21:25
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Hey, remember on Friday when they announced that Windows Insiders would get Windows 10 for free? That never happened.
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Jun 21, 2015 21:35
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pseudorandom name posted:Hey, remember on Friday when they announced that Windows Insiders would get Windows 10 for free? they are already giving it away free to people on the last 2 operating systems, what more do you want
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Jun 21, 2015 21:41
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the joke is that this is the second time they've reversed their position
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Jun 21, 2015 21:44
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:yeah, odd how booting into another OS that completely ignores the hosts file security makes it easier to do whatever the gently caress you want to the filesystem, weird man I just want to turn a hd that used to hold the system and everything else into a storage drive by getting rid of stuff without a full format. If I have root access in Linux I get to do whatever the hell I want even if it borks everything. it is a good thing.
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Jun 21, 2015 21:46
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axolotl farmer posted:I just want to turn a hd that used to hold the system and everything else into a storage drive by getting rid of stuff without a full format.
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Jun 21, 2015 22:13
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the point is that windows is absolutely retarded about file permissions and even if you are the administrator with access to every account and password that has any ownership stake it is still a pain in the rear end to take full ownership and adjust/move poo poo. often it won't work even if you do everything correctly. basically there needs to be some way to tell windows to let you do a thing even if it seems like a stupid thing to do
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Jun 21, 2015 22:24
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i would like to re-enact the parking lot fight scene from They Live with the person who added mandatory locking to Windows except there wouldn't be any glasses involved
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Jun 21, 2015 23:08
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PleasureKevin posted:but really fall out 3 only runs on windows XP or Vista or something and crashes on PC Windows 7 and above unless i follow 12 different troubleshooting guides to find one that solves the problem for me. poo poo like this is why I'm amazed Valve isn't pushing their own graphics, sound, etc. APIs—or their own complete builds of common engines, for games to link against at runtime—via Steam, possibly even with discounts on their cut of sales for the developers as an incentive. "update your game for our APIs (or use one of these common engines, uncustomized so we can sub in our build) and your game will run wherever Steam does and stay compatible over time" would be a pretty powerful message. I pretty much get that now by running some older games under CrossOver on OS X. they run beautifully under CrossOver on OS X Yosemite (and will be even moreso when CrossOver adopts Metal) while I can barely even install them on Windows 8.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:12
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PleasureKevin posted:
You have to set it so it only uses two of the cores
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Jun 21, 2015 23:23
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Beeftweeter posted:why is everyone acting like this is some amazing herculean feat of magical engineering anyway? apple had rosetta all the way back in 2006 and performance was often better than ppc, and this was on way slower x86 cpus than whats in the xbone apple also had the 68040 emulator on PowerPC and even on some of the first generation of Power Macs it was faster than any 68040 ever shipped then Eric Traut rewrote it to use dynamic recompilation techniques (JIT) and it was like 2× to 3× again as fast I mean, both the original table-based (and therefore deterministic) and dynamic recompilation emulators were Herculean efforts at the time, but that was in the early 1990s, the concepts are pretty well-understood now. I wonder what Eric is up to now
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Jun 21, 2015 23:28
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Happy_Misanthrope posted:may be a slight difference running Quark Express as compared to a videogame that expects 30ms and under latencies perhaps while they're obviously not as demanding as most 360 games the like 10 ppc 3d os x games ran better under rosetta than natively on ppc
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Jun 21, 2015 23:31
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Beeftweeter posted:even then i doubt it emulates everything completely and almost certainly dynamically recompiles code. it also almost certainly intercepts the graphics, sound, event-handling, and I/O APIs and shims those straight to the native APIs rather than emulate the entire system. (this is why using APIs instead of programming directly to hardware is so important.)
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Jun 21, 2015 23:31
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eschaton posted:I pretty much get that now by running some older games under CrossOver on OS X. they run beautifully under CrossOver on OS X Yosemite (and will be even moreso when CrossOver adopts Metal) while I can barely even install them on Windows 8. why use crossover vs just compiling wine yourself? once you get all the dependencies sorted out it's actually pretty easy and it's updated way more often than crossover is
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Jun 21, 2015 23:32
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Beeftweeter posted:while they're obviously not as demanding as most 360 games the like 10 ppc 3d os x games ran better under rosetta than natively on ppc eschaton posted:it also almost certainly intercepts the graphics, sound, event-handling, and I/O APIs and shims those straight to the native APIs rather than emulate the entire system.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:33
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Beeftweeter posted:why use crossover vs just compiling wine yourself? once you get all the dependencies sorted out it's actually pretty easy and it's updated way more often than crossover is because I'd rather pay someone a few bucks to manage the compiling for me, and also putting a decent user interface on top of things so I can just click around and have a game work. (and also because I don't want to actually access the wine source code)
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Jun 21, 2015 23:36
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eschaton posted:it also almost certainly intercepts the graphics, sound, event-handling, and I/O APIs and shims those straight to the native APIs rather than emulate the entire system. well yeah thats a given. it was probably pretty easy since its all directx
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Jun 21, 2015 23:37
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eschaton posted:(and also because I don't want to actually access the wine source code) eh thats reason enough i guess
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Jun 21, 2015 23:40
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eschaton posted:it also almost certainly intercepts the graphics, sound, event-handling, and I/O APIs and shims those straight to the native APIs rather than emulate the entire system. I'm fairly certain Xbox 360 games all ship with their own unique version of the GPU driver and can do things like muck with the command queue directly, so its more complicated than that. The voice chat API is definitely on the game disc itself, as are any drivers for USB devices (the camera, Kinect, fight sticks, fake plastic instruments, etc.)
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Jun 21, 2015 23:48
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pseudorandom name posted:I'm fairly certain Xbox 360 games all ship with their own unique version of the GPU driver and can do things like muck with the command queue directly, so its more complicated than that. nintendo had this too for the DS
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Jun 21, 2015 23:53
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computer parts posted:nintendo had this too for the DS that was fun since it meant games were stuck only being able to connect to 802.11b networks with hex passwords.
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Jun 21, 2015 23:55
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axolotl farmer posted:hello Microsoft, format <drive letter> /q
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Jun 22, 2015 01:11
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literally laughing out loud at the posters itt who own an xbone
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Jun 22, 2015 02:39
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eschaton posted:poo poo like this is why I'm amazed Valve isn't pushing their own graphics, sound, etc. APIs—or their own complete builds of common engines, for games to link against at runtime—via Steam, possibly even with discounts on their cut of sales for the developers as an incentive. creating a new graphics api == creating a new driver abi. nvidia ain't gonna let valve write they drivers for them. unless you're talking about creating a 1:1 veneer over d3d9 or d3d10 or w/e which is utterly pointless because those will continue to work forever anyway the vulkan api actually does seem pretty sw8 in this regard (a lot of stuff is being moved from graphics drivers into game engines instead of having the two mutually second-guessing what the other is trying to do and building up an unsustainable mountain of game-specific driver hacks) so i look forward to seeing where that ends up also game devs take the source code to like ue3 then customize the fug out of it so that wouldn't work either sry
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Jun 22, 2015 02:49
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is microsoft going to make up their mind on who gets windows 10 free
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Jun 22, 2015 02:51
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Celexi posted:is microsoft going to make up their mind on who gets windows 10 free yes they've decided that you get it for free. and it's mandatory
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Jun 22, 2015 03:11
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Hell they put in a stealth patch to give you malware to install Windows 10.
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Jun 22, 2015 03:15
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