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I was watching a documentary on Fernando Caceres and it's amazing how even after losing half his head he's still completely coherent and remembers everything about his career.
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Jun 5, 2015 02:43
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Hello everyone, sorry for not doing any posts about the Clausura playoffs but stuff came up and I just forgot but there was some posts about which was nice. Also Santos won if anyone was wondering, anyway I'll still be around as I'll be following the Copa America which is starting next week. That should be great to watch like always.
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Jun 7, 2015 03:37
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I made a Copa America thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3724838
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Jun 9, 2015 04:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os0sj-PCW8E Apparently the ref was unconscious for 15 minutes and required stitches in his chin
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Jun 17, 2015 04:30
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Lol at the guy getting headed by the ref
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Jun 17, 2015 04:38
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hahaha I didn't even notice that before
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Jun 17, 2015 04:41
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That's Roncaglia's brother. LOL
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Jun 17, 2015 05:06
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Lots of talk about a leak of a call between Grondona and Gnecco where apparently they tried to fix the results of Corinthians x Boca in 2013. http://www.infobae.com/2015/06/22/1736841-escuchas-el-dia-que-grondona-gano-un-partido-dos-lineas-y-el-arbitro-que-ayudo-boca
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Jun 22, 2015 16:32
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Looks more like he was joking about how Boca won only thanks to Amarilla.
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Jun 22, 2015 21:18
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Media in Brazil at least are spinning it as evidence of match mixing. To which I say, good, because if there are two teams that deserve to get hosed forever for refereeing, its Corinthians and Flamengo.
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Jun 23, 2015 03:01
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I read today that Corinthians' president told the press that he deeply regrets buying Pato and that he "prays day and night that we will sell him". loving lol if this is true.
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Jun 25, 2015 21:25
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It's like Pato and his generation saw Ronaldinho and decided to become like him, except they decided to skip the whole "best in the world and world champions" part and went straight for the "fat rear end has been who slacks off because name recognition alone will get them a contract" phase.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:11
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Gigi Galli posted:I read today that Corinthians' president told the press that he deeply regrets buying Pato and that he "prays day and night that we will sell him". loving lol if this is true. He only played one lovely year and he's just gotten loaned every season since then. Dude couldn't even make the world cup list at striker for Brazil. It was a really stupid transfer.
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Jun 25, 2015 22:48
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Volkerball posted:He only played one lovely year and he's just gotten loaned every season since then. Dude couldn't even make the world cup list at striker for Brazil. It was a really stupid transfer. Milan should've sold him to PSG when they were offering 50 million or whatever. I can't believe how far he's fallen.
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Jun 26, 2015 00:41
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Gigi Galli posted:Milan should've sold him to PSG when they were offering 50 million or whatever. I can't believe how far he's fallen. That's Barbara's fault I'm sure
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Jun 26, 2015 00:56
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Gigi Galli posted:Milan should've sold him to PSG when they were offering 50 million or whatever. I can't believe how far he's fallen. I was pretty excited when Corinthians got him because even though he'd struggled with injuries and didn't look like he was going to live up to his old expectations, loving Fred spent a lot of time scoring at will in the Brasileirao, so surely even a bad Pato would run circles around the league. Then he wasn't even the best striker on the team and brought so little to the table that Corinthians had no problems loaning him to direct rivals in the same league. It's unbelievable. I can't comprehend how he can suck so bad. It's too bad he didn't go anywhere for 50 million because that transfer would've gone down in history.
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Jun 26, 2015 01:28
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 Boca posted this during the Arg Col game lol
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Jun 27, 2015 04:29
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Bold that.
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Jun 27, 2015 04:58
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Minor controversy in Sao Paulo, as Sao Paulo lost to Palmeiras 4-0, and people found Alexandre Pato really active during half time "liking" pictures of random girls on instagram even as his team was getting destroyed.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:20
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joepinetree posted:Minor controversy in Sao Paulo, as Sao Paulo lost to Palmeiras 4-0, and people found Alexandre Pato really active during half time "liking" pictures of random girls on instagram even as his team was getting destroyed. Why should he care? The president said he prays someone buys him.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:28
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Polidoro posted:Why should he care? The president said he prays someone buys him. I have to agree here, he knows he's dead weight there and I wouldn't give a poo poo either.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:36
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In a couple years Pato went from playing in Milan and loving Barbara Berlusconi to not even playing for the Sao Paolo reserves and trolling instagram for favela girls, what a fall from grace.
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Jun 29, 2015 20:54
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Polidoro posted:Why should he care? The president said he prays someone buys him. The Corinthians president said that. He is on loan at Sao Paulo (and he was playing). joepinetree fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 23:12
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joepinetree posted:The Corinthians president said that. He is on loan at Sao Paulo (and he was playing). Oh, I misread your post. I thought you meant the city.
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Jun 29, 2015 23:43
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Jo has been sold to an UAE team for more than what Atletico originally paid for him. This is the status of Brazilian soccer in a nutshell. Jo went from being the top scorer in Libertadores to a joke who didn't score for a year, and he (and Atletico) actually saw his value go up. Why even try if you can literally host orgies with prostitutes on match day and still get a better contract at the end of it?
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Jul 2, 2015 18:43
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what Brazilians haven't realized yet is that you can still have all the orgies you want as long as you're professional and show up on time to every training session and give 100% like Benzema or other European players
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Jul 2, 2015 18:50
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Why? I mean, take the example of Bernard. Sold to shaktar for 25 million euros, and a complete failure so far because he is fighting with his coach. He could shut up, become professional, and spend a few months fighting for a starting position. Or could keep the fight going, force his way back to Brazil, and play well enough that a sheik or russian billionaire with money to launder will spend a boatload of money on him again. There is so much money floating around in brazilian soccer that argentinian players went from being too expensive for brazil to too cheap. And since it is all about prestige and laundering money, russian and middle eastern oil barons will keep making that money available.
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Jul 2, 2015 19:05
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Seltzer fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 16:22
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I think players get out of Brazil way too soon for way too much money, and end up not developing both mentally and technically as a result of that. It doesn't help that Globo, for their own financial gain, hypes up anyone that comes from São Paulo or Rio de Janeiro and does half well in the State tournaments. I think the only "new Pelé" that has achieved some success the last ten years is Neymar, everyone else I can think of either froze to death in Eastern Europe or got stuck as a rotation option at a Champions League side.El Hefe posted:what Brazilians haven't realized yet is that you can still have all the orgies you want as long as you're professional and show up on time to every training session and give 100% like Benzema or other European players Also it's just this new generation, Romário and Ronaldo knew their poo poo. Dias fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 18:28
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oops, quote ain't edit
Dias fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 18:28
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This a long effort post, but the real issue is the chimera that lei Pele created. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve the whole "club owns players" thing, but lei Pele essentially made it so managers own players now. For a long time the Brazilian league was one of the best in the world. It had crazy rules and politicking, but in terms of talent it was hard to beat. In 1970 for example, not only did all Brazil players play in Brazil, but a lot of Uruguayan and etc players also played there (Mazurkiewicz was a fan favorite at Atletico, Ancheta at Gremio, Rocha at Sao Paulo). Even as recently as 2002 most of the Brazil team played in Brazil. Lei Pele was sort of the Bosman ruling for Brazil. It was passed in 1998 and allowed players to leave teams at the end of their contract. Early on lots of Brazilian youngsters left for free (Ronaldinho, Mancini, etc). Eventually, Brazilian courts created something called the "economics rights" over a player. The courts claimed that players had "federation rights" and "economic rights." A club would have federation rights over a player while the player was under contract with the club, and once the contract was up, the club lost those rights and the player was free to move. But the courts also created the economic rights, which is who the money goes to in case of a transfer fee. And those remain in effect regardless of contractual situation with a particular club. So now a manager or businessman can "own" the economic rights over a player. One of my high school friends is now a player agent, and is sleazy as hell. Here's what has happened since this mess was created. Managers and agents now are the real scouts for talent. They will find some 13 year old who has potential and will sign a deal with them. They will get the economic rights over that player in exchange for a little bit of money upfront and a promise that the agent will get them into a big club. Now, this is not a good deal for the player, but the way most corrupt brazilian clubs work nowadays is that you have to have that connection to land at the youth division of a top club. When the youth player signs with that club, the manager/agent will negotiate it so that they retain a large part of the "economic rights" over the player. Which means that in case of a sale, they will get a part of the proceeds. To add to the sleaziness, these economic rights are not regulated and not registered anywhere. It once became public that the presidents of cruzeiro and corinthians were intermediaries in the sales of all players for their clubs (i.e., the player would not be sold directly to Europe: it would be sold to their agency - based in the Cayman Islands- and then sold again to Europe). So club presidents can make a huge amount of money that way. Which means that despite record breaking transfer fees, TV deals and overall money invested in Brazilian soccer, the clubs are more indebted than ever. So that is what leads to the problem Dias mentioned. Before, in the still corrupt but simpler old days, player agents made bank by getting a percentage of salaries and contracts. Meaning they had a huge incentive to make sure their clients landed at top paying European clubs. Now, player agents and managers make bank through "economic rights" and transfer fees, which means that their incentive is to get the player sold as soon as possible for as much as possible, regardless of where to. So Brazilian prospects get sold anywhere, including to UAE, Qatar, Ukranian, Chinese and Russian teams all the time. So while there is no way that the most recent German prospect would end up playing in Qatar at 20, Brazilian players do it all the time. Now, that is terrible for the long term development of those players. But guess what, that means more profit! Because once that player gets fed up with playing in the Ukraine, his manager/agent will guarantee that he can land at a top Brazilian club again. Because even if they've been terrible, the club president will be in on the "economic rights" (which only exists in Brazil). So there is an incentive to keep these players bouncing back and forth between Brazil and other nations. So Bernard starts out as a top prospect, ends up in the Ukraine, hates it there, forces his way back to Brazil, where he will land at a top club making a lot of money despite no performance (because the president of that club will get a bit of those economic rights), and will be sold again abroad, generating another transfer fee to be divided between the owners of his economic rights. And so he is a has been by the time he is 22. joepinetree fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 19:52
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You can see all of that in Neymar's transfer to Barca, bunch of shady deals where all the involved parties got hosed and are now suing each other.
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Jul 3, 2015 20:08
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joepinetree posted:This a long effort post, but the real issue is the chimera that lei Pele created. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve the whole "club owns players" thing, but lei Pele essentially made it so managers own players now. Yeah, this is a great examination of why Brazilian football is hosed right now and how the Lei Pelé was responsible for many of the problems our league and national team are facing. It also doesn't help that the mounting debt Brazilian clubs face is another strong incentive for selling young talent as soon and as often as possible - or if not an incentive, at least a hell of a good excuse. Plus, now that you made some cash but lost a player, you need a replacement, and <prospect from three years ago> is benched at Osasuna anyway...
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Jul 3, 2015 20:37
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Great post. It's crazy how little press it gets. Every breakout youth star for the past couple years has done exactly that and some of the fans of the Selecao are somehow surprised when the team fails.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:13
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I don't have much to say other than that being hosed up, but thank you for the informative post.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:20
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Dani Alves has some words too https://instagram.com/p/4piX01OH9X/?taken-by=danid2ois Thiago Silva got a lot of poo poo after the handball
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Jul 3, 2015 21:42
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Saying he's proud of his country but not the ones who represent it he's obviously not talking about the players but the CBF
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Jul 3, 2015 21:46
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Vinestalk posted:Great post. It's crazy how little press it gets. Every breakout youth star for the past couple years has done exactly that and some of the fans of the Selecao are somehow surprised when the team fails. It doesn't get much press because the whole mess is deeply tied with those in power. Globo is the main TV station and is deeply involved with CBF, to the point where they were able to use that power to keep broadcast rights when they were outbid for Brazilian league rights. Politicians as well. The reporter who found out that Cruzeiro and Corinthians presidents were intermediaries profiting from sales of players was fired on the spot after he published what was supposed to be the first in a series of stories on corruption in soccer. He was fired because Aecio Neves requested. The same Aecio who got a reporter fired on the spot when he pointed out on live TV that CBF had given 1/3 of all tickets in a Brazil Argentina match to Aecio's guests, who in turn closed off the handicapped entrance to the stadium to transform it into a red carpet entrance.
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Jul 3, 2015 21:59
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Boca are playing Saprissa tonight in a meaningless friendly (but of course they're calling it Copa Gigantes de América). If Boca allows the purple scum to win I will never ever forgive them, it would be hell on earth around here hearing them talk poo poo about it. They're still talking about the time when they managed 3 minutes without Liverpool scoring on them in 2005 as a great accomplishment.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:02
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Drogadon posted:(but of course they're calling it Copa Gigantes de América). Amazing.
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Jul 4, 2015 19:06
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