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Meme Emulator posted:Id say its ok in a game designed for men intended to be a power fantasy. The problem is thats also 99% of the other games out there. Did the developers say Street Fighter was a game designed for men and intended to be a power fantasy? The marketing certainly doesn't give that away. Women do play Street Fighter. What about Call of Duty? A game largely assumed to be male dominated, but still has a large female playerbase, and recently gave you the addition of playing as a female character in multiplayer. Quake 2 (also its next two sequels) was another so called designed for masculine men games, yet let you choose a female character for multiplayer. That came out in 1997. The argument that games are targeted towards men only is really flimsy and there's no evidence to support it. Game developers for the most part do not target gender. Its a myth that has held on somehow despite it never being true.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:34
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InsanityIsCrazy posted:Any actual game developers around here willing to vouch for the problem of sexuality in video games? i'm a game dev, and there is a problem with sexuality in video games
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Jun 26, 2015 18:34
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Prav posted:Well it's no doubt that it's McIntosh writing it, but I don't see any particular reason to think that Anita particularly disagrees since she keeps letting him use FF to do so. It probably helps that he has loads of his parents' money, while Anita herself doesn't really seem to be wealthy. Any argument about her stealing kickstarter money is hilariously wrong, and over much much less money than McIntosh puts into the show.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:34
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Bedlamdan posted:Can we still derail this thread to talk about the Elder Scrolls Franchise? Morrowind is great, Oblvion is rear end, Skyrim is Somewhere in the Middle
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Jun 26, 2015 18:34
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Sinnlos posted:Boob plate is dumb as gently caress but TES is cool and alright I love boob plate and make no excuses about it. Ab plate is pretty fantastic too, games should start including it.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:35
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you agree that things are bad and need to change, just so long as nobody talks about it and nobody criticizes anything and the status quo goes on as usual I think variety can be good, but it doesn't mean the things some people don't like need to be scrubbed from gaming, either. It's like Stan Lee recently commented on comic books - taking old characters and turning them black, gay, whatever isn't actually moving forward in any meaningful way. That's just appropriating previous cultural icons and destroying them in the name of your political crusade. The onus should be on creators and publishers to create new IPs and new characters instead of trying to hack-write their way through re-skins and reboots of old poo poo. It's also better for the artists in the long run because they get associated with their own creative endeavors instead of re-write #1345 of stock character. The only limit on this, however, being the talent of the artist in question and their ability to move beyond being a hack.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:35
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I said come in! posted:Did the developers say Street Fighter was a game designed for men and intended to be a power fantasy? The marketing certainly doesn't give that away. Women do play Street Fighter. What about Call of Duty? A game largely assumed to be male dominated, but still has a large female playerbase, and recently gave you the addition of playing as a female character in multiplayer. Quake 2 (also its next two sequels) was another so called designed for masculine men games, yet let you choose a female character for multiplayer. That came out in 1997. sexualization: non existent target demographics: also non existent many things i do not like or approve of, actually don't really exist
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Jun 26, 2015 18:35
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Effectronica posted:Weird. It looks like you're saying something really stupid and condescending. Can you give five reasons why someone shouldn't dome your worthless rear end right now? The image you linked is the real world representation of Ronda Rousey who wears her fight gear for specific real world reasons. The image I linked is a video game representation of Ronda Rousey that has no requirement to conform to reality.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:36
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Terrible Opinions posted:It probably helps that he has loads of his parents' money, while Anita herself doesn't really seem to be wealthy. Any argument about her stealing kickstarter money is hilariously wrong, and over much much less money than McIntosh puts into the show. Well in the intro of her college thesis she mentions josh helped her. I think he has been their since the beginning. She just knows how to spins his bullshit into something palatable.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:36
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poptart_fairy posted:His viewpoints have popped up under her name, identical in everything down to the grammar - stuff that then quickly disappears from his own twitter, etc. It seems way too nose to just be a case of two people sharing similar opinions. It also isn't a controversial idea that someone else runs her twitter. This has been done very frequently for celebrities and other organizations.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:sexualization: non existent Well, you're not offering any evidence that proves me wrong, soooooooo....
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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natetimm posted:I think variety can be good, but it doesn't mean the things some people don't like need to be scrubbed from gaming, either. It's like Stan Lee recently commented on comic books - taking old characters and turning them black, gay, whatever isn't actually moving forward in any meaningful way. That's just appropriating previous cultural icons and destroying them in the name of your political crusade. The onus should be on creators and publishers to create new IPs and new characters instead of trying to hack-write their way through re-skins and reboots of old poo poo. It's also better for the artists in the long run because they get associated with their own creative endeavors instead of re-write #1345 of stock character. The only limit on this, however, being the talent of the artist in question and their ability to move beyond being a hack. Actually, keeping racist and sexist things around says that we value them, so we shouldn't do so. Sorry for your loss. But nobody's going to take your Punch-Out!! cartridge away from you.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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I said come in! posted:
Ideology (at least in terms of film criticism) is the belief that certain assumptions are default or normal. In this case, ideology means that people who are "fair and balanced" still target by gender.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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I said come in! posted:Did the developers say Street Fighter was a game designed for men and intended to be a power fantasy? The marketing certainly doesn't give that away. Women do play Street Fighter. What about Call of Duty? A game largely assumed to be male dominated, but still has a large female playerbase, and recently gave you the addition of playing as a female character in multiplayer. Quake 2 (also its next two sequels) was another so called designed for masculine men games, yet let you choose a female character for multiplayer. That came out in 1997. Im talking about games where it would make sense and be acceptable to have a busty bimbo or w/e. I wasnt speaking directly about Street Fighter. However, If you think people do not tailor thier game and marketing of the game to the demographics they are persuing then youre an insane person. I shouldn't even have to say that they do. Of course they do, theres a million assholes in marketing divisions around the world crunching these numbers. People get fired for not meeting demographics, Spike TV notoriously fired one of the people they had in charge of scheduling when CSI reruns pulled in a huge female audience which the advertisers were not paying for.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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Popular Thug Drink posted:so you agree that things are bad and need to change, just so long as nobody talks about it and nobody criticizes anything and the status quo goes on as usual Criticism is fine, when it goes to attacking people who like something you don't is where I draw the line. I'm cool with twitter people tweeting all day how X is sexist and Y is problematic and Z is totally gross. It's when they start demanding content be censored, changed or removed because it offends them and aggressively dogpiling anyone who dares defend it. I think it's fine if someone likes DoA and it's fine when someone gets a half-chub looking at Poison Ivy's tits or whatever. Saying that there isn't a game for people who just want practically dressed women beat the crap out of each other is also a legitmate complaint. It's just I don't see the reason of group B going to group A's sandcastle and kicking it over because they don't get to have one, rather then making one themselves.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:37
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natetimm posted:I think variety can be good, but it doesn't mean the things some people don't like need to be scrubbed from gaming, either. It's like Stan Lee recently commented on comic books - taking old characters and turning them black, gay, whatever isn't actually moving forward in any meaningful way. That's just appropriating previous cultural icons and destroying them in the name of your political crusade. The onus should be on creators and publishers to create new IPs and new characters instead of trying to hack-write their way through re-skins and reboots of old poo poo. It's also better for the artists in the long run because they get associated with their own creative endeavors instead of re-write #1345 of stock character. The only limit on this, however, being the talent of the artist in question and their ability to move beyond being a hack. I assume you then wouldn't have an issue with legacy characters like the Flash or Greenlantern having a gay,black, and/or latino person as their next iteration then? Are we all in agreement that John Stewart was cool and good as the animated Green Lantern representative?
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Jun 26, 2015 18:38
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I said come in! posted:Did the developers say Street Fighter was a game designed for men and intended to be a power fantasy? The marketing certainly doesn't give that away. Women do play Street Fighter. What about Call of Duty? A game largely assumed to be male dominated, but still has a large female playerbase, and recently gave you the addition of playing as a female character in multiplayer. Quake 2 (also its next two sequels) was another so called designed for masculine men games, yet let you choose a female character for multiplayer. That came out in 1997. by this logic, bmx xxx was not targeted at one gender on account of you could play as women
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Jun 26, 2015 18:38
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Dapper Dan posted:It also isn't a controversial idea that someone else runs her twitter. This has been done very frequently for celebrities and other organizations. Anita needs to make that clear then. Both her and McIntosh pretend the FemFreq Twitter account is all Anita's.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:38
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Unfunny Poster posted:The image you linked is the real world representation of Ronda Rousey who wears her fight gear for specific real world reasons. Actually, featuring a purple Predator from the movie series and calling her "Ronda Rousey" would probably not send the message that you were playing a representation of the martial artist Ronda Rousey in the game.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:38
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Effectronica posted:Actually, keeping racist and sexist things around says that we value them, so we shouldn't do so. Sorry for your loss. But nobody's going to take your Punch-Out!! cartridge away from you. None of those charqacters they changed were racist or sexist but thanks for embodying the SJW mindset of everyone who disagrees with you being some sort of bigot.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:38
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I said come in! posted:The argument that games are targeted towards men only is really flimsy and there's no evidence to support it. Game developers for the most part do not target gender. Its a myth that has held on somehow despite it never being true. Correct, marketing demographics don't exist, males aged 18-24 are not a bigger target than females of the same age range Jesus fuckin Christ
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Jun 26, 2015 18:39
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Meme Emulator posted:Morrowind is great, Oblvion is rear end, Skyrim is Somewhere in the Middle  Bicyclops posted:Anita Sarkeesian has some pretty drat gentle and well-expressed criticism I think the problem is that her writer is this histrionic turd who can't help but wag his finger over batman punching a guy even after Rocksteady apparently came out against GamerGate.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:39
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natetimm posted:None of those charqacters they changed were racist or sexist but thanks for embodying the SJW mindset of everyone who disagrees with you being some sort of bigot. You're the one arguing that things should never be eliminated, but only preserved and new things added. But this is characteristic of the conservative- the inability to follow a chain of logic through.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:39
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Sinnlos posted:Boob plate is dumb as gently caress but TES is cool and alright Natural flat armor makes way more tactical sense; it flattens and hides the body shape and offers nice, thick protection. Boob plate conforms and enhances the human silhouette; it's entirely useless (and even detrimental) as armor but as an aesthetic choice it makes sense to stimulate an emotion, which is something art is intended to do. It depends on what the goal is for each game and there is absolutely room for both.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:39
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Bicyclops posted:Anita Sarkeesian has some pretty drat gentle and well-expressed criticism but it got people into such a frothing rage that they latched onto the bad ex-boyrfriend letter and the Firefly celebrity Tweet and are still, like a year later, talking about the Gamergate. It just goes on and on, even though the relatively simple idea that video games, as an industry, have some problems with women and could stand to adjust, both for moral reasons and to incorporate new audiences, should be the easiest thing in the world to agree about. Theoretically, I should have no problem with Anita's criticism and should accept it wholecloth. Unfortunately she and John are pushing the idea of Toxic Masculinity infecting people who play video games and Batman games making people think they're all Jack Bauer.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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Effectronica posted:Actually, featuring a purple Predator from the movie series and calling her "Ronda Rousey" would probably not send the message that you were playing a representation of the martial artist Ronda Rousey in the game. It would send the message that I would loving buy that game though.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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Meme Emulator posted:Spike TV notoriously fired one of the people they had in charge of scheduling when CSI reruns pulled in a huge female audience which the advertisers were not paying for. This is a totally different situation from what we are talking about. Game developers have no reason to care who buys their games, as long as their games sell. Spike TV on the other hand loses advertisers if the wrong people view their ads and then don't buy the products.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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Effectronica posted:Actually, featuring a purple Predator from the movie series and calling her "Ronda Rousey" would probably not send the message that you were playing a representation of the martial artist Ronda Rousey in the game. It'd be pretty cool though.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:40
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Effectronica posted:Actually, featuring a purple Predator from the movie series and calling her "Ronda Rousey" would probably not send the message that you were playing a representation of the martial artist Ronda Rousey in the game. A predator is a good representation of Ronda Rousey actually I said come in! posted:Game developers have no reason to care who buys their games, as long as their games sell. Do you have any idea at all how marketing works
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Jun 26, 2015 18:41
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natetimm posted:SJW Powercrazy posted:identity politics hey somebody post something about echo chambers so i can get a bingo here
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Jun 26, 2015 18:41
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turnways posted:I think it goes: Men create and see fantasy based on their desires = men demand that fantasy play out in real life = women culturally forced to conform = bad. Thing is 2 usually doesn't work out like that. There are a bunch of guys that are attracted to that kind of stuff, but there's a fair amount of evidence that what you are attracted to is not defined by media and games you consume later in life. For example, peoples odd and surprising attraction to Tali in the Mass Effect games. That girl was probably one of the most popular romantic options and might as well have had a small cult dedicated to her... even though no one ever sees her face except for a crappy photo in Mass Effect 3. Or for that matter Arieth in Final Fantasy 7, where she was pretty non-sexualized yet she also has a ton of "fandom" and creepy fanfiction showing she became a lot of peoples fantasied.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:41
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Literally The Worst posted:Correct, marketing demographics don't exist, males aged 18-24 are not a bigger target than females of the same age range I'm saying it doesn't matter. The music industry found this out in the late 19th century. For entertainment, targeting demographics is pointless.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:41
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Terrible Opinions posted:I assume you then wouldn't have an issue with legacy characters like the Flash or Greenlantern having a gay,black, and/or latino person as their next iteration then? Are we all in agreement that John Stewart was cool and good as the animated Green Lantern representative? I think gay, black and latino characters should be new IP with their own freshly-written backgrounds instead of reboots of old, already established characters. Also, if they're going to retcon current characters as gay or a different race, I think more effort should be put into it as a passing of a torch to a new character from the old one instead of *poof* "so and so is latino now!" It's ham-handed corporate bullshit of the least effort possible to try and cash in. Diversity means new stuff, not changing old stuff, especially when the old stuff is still liked.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:42
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I said come in! posted:I'm saying it doesn't matter. The music industry found this out in the late 19th century. For entertainment, targeting demographics is pointless. Entertainment is truly unique in this aspect, where the type of people buying it does not give you any useful information at all.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:42
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https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/skeleton-to-skeleton/kckodmjikeoncekpplppkkcjolofmacc?hl=en is a good thing to click if you have chrome
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Jun 26, 2015 18:43
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paranoid randroid posted:hey somebody post something about echo chambers so i can get a bingo here You actually need someone to use the term "hugbox" to really score (as well as the "Stop triggering me" joke, but we have that covered about ten times over already).
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Jun 26, 2015 18:43
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Literally The Worst posted:Do you have any idea at all how marketing works I watch a lot of game trailers and I can't recall a single one where I felt that it was specifically targeting men. They were entirely gender neutral marketing material.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:43
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Shadoer posted:
Aeris definitely had a type, as in she was a wish fullfillment character. She was the pure flower that you will get to pluck one day. Well not Aeris specifically since she gets killed and reabsorbed into the lifestream before anyone has a chance to gently caress her, but you know what I mean.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:43
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Shadoer posted:Thing is 2 usually doesn't work out like that. There are a bunch of guys that are attracted to that kind of stuff, but there's a fair amount of evidence that what you are attracted to is not defined by media and games you consume later in life. Aerith is a sexualized character in Final Fantasy 7. She's not thought of as an example because the translation seems to impair people's ability to remember what the characters were actually like, but she's the most sexualized female character in the entire game.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm a game dev, and there is a problem with sexuality in video games Loverslab doesn't count.
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Jun 26, 2015 18:44
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