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Totalizator posted:Slander deserves to be called out and exposed, no conflict with freedom of speech there. GG speaks out against gaming media that slanders gamers, I have no problem with this. So it's good to call out and expose slander, unless it's a corporation/company that does this by removing slanderous comments/videos, in which case it has become censorship
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Jun 27, 2015 19:58
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Totalizator posted:It's the latter. Like I said I'm just here to watch tumblr burn. Well if we're talking websites can you please tell me if 8chan is a good place to learn about gg?
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Jun 27, 2015 19:58
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Totalizator posted:You could say that gamergate has proven what we've known all along, that gamers should be shamed and bullied into submission. This agreeable, and luckily the DoJ will someday crack down on /pol/.
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Jun 27, 2015 19:59
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Sharkie posted:Well if we're talking websites can you please tell me if 8chan is a good place to learn about gg? Go there and tell me, I heard the place is full of CP so I'm not interested in finding out.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:00
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:There will never be a magical moment where "those people" will "get what's coming to them". Nope. And even if they did it would mean nothing. Far better if "those people" learned more and reconsidered. Which is not terribly likely when they are being deemed irredeemable monsters by people desperate to reassure themselves that they AREN'T "those people" We're all "those people" either all the time or on occasion.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:00
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Totalizator posted:It's the latter. Like I said I'm just here to watch tumblr burn. Totalizator posted:The argument is more that they don't want games to be graded based on how leftist they are,. Witcher 3 is great but has no black people and shows bad things happening to women ? How problematic, this is a super important thing I must bring up in my review for everyone to care about.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:01
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:So it's good to call out and expose slander, unless it's a corporation/company that does this by removing slanderous comments/videos, in which case it has become censorship Actually it's been proven that Slander is fine provided it's against The Right People. When people were making up poo poo about Zoe Quinn it was all in good fun, no slander there. Removing that blatantly untrue stuff was the devil's work, though.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:01
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Sharkie posted:Well if we're talking websites can you please tell me if 8chan is a good place to learn about gg? Honestly I would say the reddit KIA gg board is the best. 8chan is alright but at this point is mostly circlejerking chan stuff. https://8ch.net/gamergatehq/catalog.html here you go.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:01
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:So it's good to call out and expose slander, unless it's a corporation/company that does this by removing slanderous comments/videos, in which case it has become censorship Removing slander is exposing it? What?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:02
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The Snark posted:Nope. And even if they did it would mean nothing. Not really.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:02
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:There will never be a magical moment where "those people" will "get what's coming to them". I don't think so. It has redeemable aspects - and by that, I basically mean Lucas Arts - style point and click adventures and maybe Colonization - but its core is rotten.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:02
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Totalizator posted:Removing slander is exposing it? What? Fine, lets say they don't remove it. Let's say instead that above every 'slanderous' comment or video on a site was a gigantic banner that says EVERYTHING BELOW IS A COMPLETE FABRICATION, IT IS PURE SLANDER. Do you genuinely believe that people would not treat that as a form of censorship?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:04
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Totalizator posted:Go there and tell me, I heard the place is full of CP so I'm not interested in finding out. If that's the case i feel it's more important that it burn than blogging platform tumblr. Also why is the gg reddit asking its users to support a place full of child porn?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:05
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Nonsense posted:Not really. Oh, well I stand corrected, you perfect and omniscient Godperson. Have you considered running for President? The world needs you.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:06
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Dapper_Swindler posted:Honestly I would say the reddit KIA gg board is the best. 8chan is alright but at this point is mostly circlejerking chan stuff. https://8ch.net/gamergatehq/catalog.html Was Totalizer wrong when they said it was full of child porn? But thanks for letting me know it's an "alright" place to learn about gg.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:07
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The Snark posted:Nope. And even if they did it would mean nothing.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:08
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Scrub-Niggurath posted:Fine, lets say they don't remove it. Let's say instead that above every 'slanderous' comment or video on a site was a gigantic banner that says EVERYTHING BELOW IS A COMPLETE FABRICATION, IT IS PURE SLANDER. Do you genuinely believe that people would not treat that as a form of censorship? Slap a link to some sort of rebuttal or proof on that notification and I'm down with this solution.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:08
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Totalizator posted:As an European I can weigh in on the Roma debate. Currently in Europe there is no state-sanctioned oppression against the Roma and harassing them would be persecuted as a hate crime. Unfortunately the Roma communities do not wish to engage or integrate with society at large despite efforts being made on the state level to do so, and their culture is permissive of things most Europeans think is bad such as child marriage and thieving. Hah, yeah, figured. Harassing Roma would be prosecuted. That's a good one.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:09
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Sharkie posted:Was Totalizer wrong when they said it was full of child porn? GG does not have child porn. It might have creepy fucks on /b/ and other boards but their is no CP/loli/or any of that poo poo on /gg/or/v/ thank god. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 20:10
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Obdicut posted:Hah, yeah, figured. Well it's in the laws. They're not enforced properly, but for that to happen you'd need to pour serious money for awareness training for policemen and prosecutors, and for that money to happen there needs to be consensus amongst the populace and politicians that the money is needed. Unfortunately there isn't and I don't know how to change that. Only thing I can do is treat Roma as normal people and encourage others to do the same.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:11
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Dapper_Swindler posted:GG does not have child porn. Not even /B/ has it. It might have creepy fucks but their is no CP, thank god. 8chan however does
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Jun 27, 2015 20:12
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Totalizator posted:Only thing I can do is treat Roma as normal people and encourage others to do the same. thank you for treating roma as if they were normal people
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Jun 27, 2015 20:17
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Totalizator posted:Slap a link to some sort of rebuttal or proof on that notification and I'm down with this solution. This is interesting. Say someone was accused of murder, and was fully acquitted, 100% proven innocent, would it then be permissible to feature every single image of that person with the worlds "MURDERER" in 500pt letters right above their face provided there was a 10pt "Not actually a" above it?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:18
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Dapper_Swindler posted:GG does not have child porn. It might have creepy fucks on /b/ and other boards but their is no CP/loli/or any of that poo poo on /gg/or/v/ thank god. I'm sorry but you didn't answer my question.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:20
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Ddraig posted:This is interesting. Say someone was accused of murder, and was fully acquitted, 100% proven innocent, would it then be permissible to feature every single image of that person with the worlds "MURDERER" in 500pt letters right above their face provided there was a 10pt "Not actually a" above it? OJ Simpson proves yes.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:21
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Al Cowen knew it was coming. Anita Sarkeesian had been trained to be the whitest assassin in the history of the SocJus bureau. Somewhere, she was eating french fries with mayonnaise and preparing to sight him out with her scope. Being blandly critical of The Witcher 3 was only a cover for her true agenda: His death, and the death of all black people. Complaining about refunds on steam was only the first step to genocide. There was only one person he could trust to save him. Only one man wasn't racist. Al Cowen picks up his phone and dials a number. "Davis Aurini, 'White Supremacist on Paper,'" his contact answers. "I'm here to help. Heil Hitler."
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Jun 27, 2015 20:23
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Ddraig posted:This is interesting. Say someone was accused of murder, and was fully acquitted, 100% proven innocent, would it then be permissible to feature every single image of that person with the worlds "MURDERER" in 500pt letters right above their face provided there was a 10pt "Not actually a" above it? That's how tabloids work. Serious answer: No, because the intention of posting an image like that is still slanderous. Slander is bad, but as the whole gamergate thing shows you can't fight slander with cenorship. You fight it with facts, and you have to make sure the facts are out there. If you're going to delete a thread about Zoe Quinn saying it's slander it better be replaced with a link to some proof that slander has in fact took place, otherwise people will just think they're being silenced for criticizing a public figure. This is a difficult question how this should be handled for sure but mass deleting posts without any sort of rebuttal or reason is definitely not the way to go.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:25
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Totalizator posted:That's how tabloids work. i dunno, i think most people when presented with a retraction don't automatically assume the authorities are trying to thoughtpolice them and then go digging up that information just to prove to the man that information should be free
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Jun 27, 2015 20:27
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Totalizator posted:Well it's in the laws. They're not enforced properly, but for that to happen you'd need to pour serious money for awareness training for policemen and prosecutors, and for that money to happen there needs to be consensus amongst the populace and politicians that the money is needed. Unfortunately there isn't and I don't know how to change that. Only thing I can do is treat Roma as normal people and encourage others to do the same. Good of you to admit that. By the way, saying that the Roma " do not wish to engage or integrate with society at large despite efforts being made on the state level to do so, and their culture is permissive of things most Europeans think is bad such as child marriage and thieving" is not treating them as normal people nor encouraging others to be the same. Still don't know if you understand we haven't banned the confederate flag.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:28
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totalizer, it seems like you're saying the appropriate way to deal with a doxxing is not to delete the doxxed material, but rather to post a counteropinion that states that people should not look at the doxxed material. because deleting the material will just incite people's natural curiosity. is that an accurate summation?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:29
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i dunno, i think most people when presented with a retraction don't automatically assume the authorities are trying to thoughtpolice them and then go digging up that information just to prove to the man that information should be free Maybe if there was some trust estabilished between the gaming press and their public, rather then one putting out advertising masked as reviews where the only original content they were allowed to put in was complaining how triggered they were by a character showing her midriff. The audience of gaming journalists at that point just assumed everything coming out of their mouth is sneering and lies. Popular Thug Drink posted:thank you for treating roma as if they were normal people I phrased that poorly, sorry for my bad English.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:30
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Totalizator posted:Maybe if there was some trust estabilished between the gaming press and their public, rather then one putting out advertising masked as reviews where the only original content they were allowed to put in was complaining how triggered they were by a character showing her midriff. The audience of gaming journalists at that point just assumed everything coming out of their mouth is sneering and lies. gaming journalism has always been payola. always. it's odd to me and many others that ethical reform of games journalism was triggered at the same time as gaming was becoming more diverse and inclusionary of non-white male opinions, and that the reactionary opposition to gaming media as advertising is also framed in false apocalyptic terms like " the only original content they were allowed to put in was complaining how triggered they were by a character showing her midriff" that statement seems extremely dramatic to me, and not at all an accurate description of gaming journalism further, saying the entire audience of gaming journalism is alienated by elitist lies seems like you are personally assuming everyone who consumes gaming journalism thinks and behaves as you do, and that everyone else must be some fake gamer 'other' which also seems like an absurd claim boner confessor fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 20:35
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Totalizator posted:The argument is more that they don't want games to be graded based on how leftist they are,. Witcher 3 is great but has no black people and shows bad things happening to women ? How problematic, this is a super important thing I must bring up in my review for everyone to care about. It's a critique that Witcher 3 has mostly white people and the few people of color in the game. A review is an opinion and if the review think that opinion is important enough to place in the review then they have the power to do that. I really don't understand this push for games to be graded only on their "merits" as if the actual writing and characterization aren't part of the merits. Al Cowens posted:All. And don't loving call us "of color" I don't know of any feminists that want to murder me and I am a black guy, so maybe it's just a select few.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i dunno, i think most people when presented with a retraction don't automatically assume the authorities are trying to thoughtpolice them and then go digging up that information just to prove to the man that information should be free It's not surprising when an industry with a widespread perception of corruption and cliquish behavior most people assume a scandal being suppressed is really people covering up for their buddies. If you heard Sepp Blatter was shredding his associates personal documents would you assume it was for genuine ethical reasons?
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Jun 27, 2015 20:37
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Obdicut posted:
Apple pulling historical games to score points from the whole debate is the exact thing people are complaining about. There is no justification for taking down historical games because they contain a symbol. They backed out from that fortunately but this was the banning I was referring to. It's not like people who disagreed with it had a choice other then trashing their expensive phone, you can't just download a different app store, you're locked in to whatever political decision Apple makes or lose money. It showcased a real problem. Obdicut posted:Good of you to admit that. By the way, saying that the Roma " do not wish to engage or integrate with society at large despite efforts being made on the state level to do so, and their culture is permissive of things most Europeans think is bad such as child marriage and thieving" is not treating them as normal people nor encouraging others to be the same. I can point out flaws in a culture and still treat members of it like everyone else. Every people's culture has it's flaws including my own. This has nothing to do with each other. Ignoring problems doesn't make them go away.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:39
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Pleasant Friend posted:It's not surprising when an industry with a widespread perception of corruption and cliquish behavior most people assume a scandal being suppressed is really people covering up for their buddies. If you heard Sepp Blatter was shredding his associates personal documents would you assume it was for genuine ethical reasons? sepp blatter controls billions of dollars in real resources all around the globe. zoe quinn is an obscure game developer who was accused of being a skank. i would not hold the latter to the same level of scrutiny as the former
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Jun 27, 2015 20:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:gaming journalism has always been payola. always. it's odd to me and many others that ethical reform of games journalism was triggered at the same time as gaming was becoming more diverse and inclusionary of non-white male opinions, and that the reactionary opposition to gaming media as advertising is also framed in false apocalyptic terms like " the only original content they were allowed to put in was complaining how triggered they were by a character showing her midriff" I use hyperbole in my arguments as liberally as you use ad hominem in yours.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:40
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Totalizator posted:Apple pulling historical games to score points from the whole debate is the exact thing people are complaining about. There is no justification for taking down historical games because they contain a symbol. They backed out from that fortunately but this was the banning I was referring to. It's not like people who disagreed with it had a choice other then trashing their expensive phone, you can't just download a different app store, you're locked in to whatever political decision Apple makes or lose money. It showcased a real problem. i've asked many times what apple's hasty decision has to do with gamergate or SJWs. they appear as completely disconnected events to me, and as of yet nobody has been able to demonstrate any link between the two except that they both involve removing video games from sale. you might as well include wal-mart's shelf stockers in the conspiracy Totalizator posted:I use hyperbole in my arguments as liberally as you use ad hominem in yours. i don't use ad hominems, and even if i did, it wouldn't excuse your hyperbole everyone is under an equal responsibility to post well, there is no common threshold of acceptable shittiness
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Jun 27, 2015 20:41
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The problem is that despite great claims to the contrary, evidence overwhelmingly supports that people are not 100% rational and relying on them to be is not particularly helpful for many people. The treatment of ex-prisoners is a good example of this. There has to be laws in place that allow for them to be integrated back into society because given the opportunity they would be forever denied employment, be constantly discriminated against and a whole host of other crap, even though in the eyes of the law they have served their debt to society and are free because they are no longer deemed to be dangerous. Even with the safeguards in place (such as spent convictions etc.) the barriers for re-integration are overwhelmingly against them, as virtually any excuse can be used to deny them employment provided they don't use the 'illegal' one. To the point where many will simply lie because that's the only chance they'll ever get to be employed again, and CRB checks are there for that eventuality. This is literally a case where, even when presented with evidence in a very clear, concise manner that this person is not a criminal anymore, people ignore it because of their gut feeling.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i've asked many times what apple's hasty decision has to do with gamergate or SJWs. they appear as completely disconnected events to me, and as of yet nobody has been able to demonstrate any link between the two except that they both involve removing video games from sale. you might as well include wal-mart's shelf stockers in the conspiracy They pulled games. Gamergate hates it when someone censors games for whatever reason. Removing something from your store that you previously sold based on politics is a form of censorship.
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Jun 27, 2015 20:42
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