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Knuc U Kinte
Aug 17, 2004

Another Person posted:

I actually consider Pluto to be a veeeery valuable idea group if it is available. I know it isn't militaristic, but caravan power is hard to get, merchants are great and -5% on all tech is amazing. The 10% morale and manpower recovery speed is just icing on the cake.

Who said plutocratic isn't good?

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Tsyni
Sep 1, 2004
Lipstick Apathy

Knuc U Kinte posted:

Who said plutocratic isn't good?

No idea groups are good. New WC achievement should be conquer the world without using any ideas.

TaurusTorus
Mar 27, 2010

Grab the bullshit by the horns

Tsyni posted:

No idea groups are good. New WC achievement should be conquer the world without using any ideas.

Never spend monarch points, new challenge for real pro gamers.

Yashichi
Oct 22, 2010

Pellisworth posted:

It's really good right now, the +1 Diplomat and +1 Leader slot are great. Somewhat ironic since those used to be hot trash. If you haven't played much Common Sense, you'll quickly come to find the lack of the early third Diplomat from an Embassy frustrating, especially if you're doing any vassal integration.

The other military ideas will give you more actual punch in battles, but Aristocratic is an excellent first military idea pick for almost any nation right now.

Of course, with the upcoming patch (beta out next week) that gives you +Diplomat and +1 leader with government rank, I'd bet Aristocratic will lose a lot of its appeal.

Edit: in a vacuum, Aristocratic isn't all that great, no. However with the loss of unique building bonuses, it gives you some solid military stuff as well as "quality of life" bonuses and MIL point discounts which make it an attractive first military pick.

No, I played a few campaigns and wasn't really tempted to take it at any point. Being down a diplomat was tedious since I made a lot of peace offers to India but that alone isn't worth 2800 military points, and that's going to be fixed in a few days anyway. 10% cavalry ability is a really meaningless bonus and you can also get it from Quality, which feels a lot better now with the +1 army tradition. Vassal income and war exhaustion cost are total crap compared to what you get from Quality/Quantity/Offensive/Defensive, and all of those feel like solid choices now.

Anyway here's what happened to my economy a month after I made this giant client state to get Venetian Sea:

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.
Managed to become Emperor as the Palatinate thanks to some timely bribes and now France is on my doorstep. Okay, I know dealing with them is risky at best, but may as well check out who they're allied with and see if I can maybe--



Oh that's nice, that's just the entirety of western Europe ready to attack me whenever France feels like taking one of my provinces. :stonk: Where the gently caress do I even begin to defend against this?

Fake edit: I went and allied Poland so I'll have someone to throw bodies at France. Turns out they're 1996 ducats in debt :doh:

Vanilla Mint Ice
Jul 17, 2007

A raccoon is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits.
I doubt Castile or Portugal would actually join in on an offensive war against you unless they are your rivals for some reason.

TheOneAndOnlyT
Dec 18, 2005

Well well, mister fancy-pants, I hope you're wearing your matching sweater today, or you'll be cut down like the ugly tree you are.
The emperor is always a co-belligerent if he gets called by a prince, right? So I'd be able to call in my allies?

Yashichi
Oct 22, 2010

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

The emperor is always a co-belligerent if he gets called by a prince, right? So I'd be able to call in my allies?

Yes

Sheep
Jul 24, 2003

TheOneAndOnlyT posted:

Managed to become Emperor as the Palatinate thanks to some timely bribes and now France is on my doorstep. Okay, I know dealing with them is risky at best, but may as well check out who they're allied with and see if I can maybe--



Oh that's nice, that's just the entirety of western Europe ready to attack me whenever France feels like taking one of my provinces. :stonk: Where the gently caress do I even begin to defend against this?

Fake edit: I went and allied Poland so I'll have someone to throw bodies at France. Turns out they're 1996 ducats in debt :doh:

France is heavily, heavily neutered with the latest expansion, and Portugal (and usually Castile, especially if pre-Aragon union) are generally pushovers as well.

I mean it might be a bit of a challenge as the Palatinate but if you have been expanding at all then it really shouldn't be much of a problem, especially with emperor force limit and manpower bonuses.

Edit: you can try declaring war on Milan or Portugal. What's -2 stability in the grand scheme of things, anyways?

Sheep fucked around with this message at 05:53 on Jun 28, 2015

Morzhovyye
Mar 2, 2013

Man, I'm really getting hosed out of monarch points in this ironman game. After I westernized any of my excess points above 999 were deleted upon spending any amount of them, so there goes ~1000 for no reason. Now after seizing the colony in Cape from France there's no colony discount so I'm left to pay the full cost to core it, another ~100 when I already have a backlog of cores.

France has also been hilariously kneecapped in my game. It's not even 1600 yet, but they're missing over 1/3 of the french region and GB holds Paris. :v:

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I love being able to take capitals in peace, it's so so good. In my current Dutch run I took London and everything south from GB, and forced them to release Scotland. Scotland ended up conquering what was left of england, it's huge colonies became independent, and I now have 99% trade power in english channel which is worth 140 gold some how.

Jabarto
Apr 7, 2007

I could do with your...assistance.

Another Person posted:

The 10% morale and manpower recovery speed is just icing on the cake.

10% morale is excellent, not icing. Goons overrate discipline and wildly underrate morale. It doesn't matter how many casualties your troops can inflict if they all break on the first day.

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005



Yashichi posted:

Anyway here's what happened to my economy a month after I made this giant client state to get Venetian Sea:

Got any advice on how to get the achievement now? I'm trying but I'm thinking my current game may be hosed due to some lazily planned expansion.

alcaras
Oct 3, 2013

noli timere

Deutsch Nozzle posted:

Now that I've had some time to sit down and play the new expansion, I finally decided to play a game on Ironman. I have to say the added challenge was nice. The idea of running a nation feels more tangible when you have to acknowledge that your decisions will have consequences--and so you'll need to think for a few minutes before spamming the Declare War button.

Started as Poland in 1444 and finished with this:



Got all three Poland Cheevos, dismantled the HRE, and touched the Ottomans' butts.



Any tips or advice gleaned from your run?

What were your ideas and sequence?

Elman
Oct 26, 2009

Yashichi posted:

Anyway here's what happened to my economy a month after I made this giant client state to get Venetian Sea:


Woah, how long did that take to make? Wish you could use something like the nation designer to build your client states instead of adding provinces one by one.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Allyn posted:

Why is offensive less appealing in this setup? Surely in an era of unreliable AT gains, guaranteed leader pips are even more valuable. Then again I just straight up love offensive and pretty much always have :shobon:

As others have said, it's not that offensive's bad, it's that the others are just as good now!

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I haven't kept up with development - how many troops does it now take to siege a fort? What is the relevant formula?

Allyn
Sep 4, 2007

I love Charlie from Busted!

double nine posted:

I haven't kept up with development - how many troops does it now take to siege a fort? What is the relevant formula?

You need 3000 men per fort level, or 1000 men if no fort.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

okay; now: what the hell happened to the aggressive expansion info? "Between 1 and 21 with 100 countries" is NOT a useful metric.

Sorced
Nov 5, 2009

double nine posted:

okay; now: what the hell happened to the aggressive expansion info? "Between 1 and 21 with 100 countries" is NOT a useful metric.

If your ae could trigger them joining a coalition (i.e. puts them above 30 AE) it'll tell you explicitly.

Allyn
Sep 4, 2007

I love Charlie from Busted!

double nine posted:

okay; now: what the hell happened to the aggressive expansion info? "Between 1 and 21 with 100 countries" is NOT a useful metric.

It now only shows if it's gonna put you over the threshhold of being eligible to be on the receiving end of a coalition (-30 opinion from AE iirc). In other words: if it just shows that, you're good.

Another Person
Oct 21, 2010

Knuc U Kinte posted:

Who said plutocratic isn't good?

VDay said Pluto was the odd one out, that was my way of saying I don't mind it being an odd one out. Nobody said it was not good, I was just getting across it is excellent anyway.

Jabarto posted:

10% morale is excellent, not icing. Goons overrate discipline and wildly underrate morale. It doesn't matter how many casualties your troops can inflict if they all break on the first day.

Oh yeah, I know. I have pretty much always posted itt that discipline is worse than morale for the exact reasons stated above. Discipline kills guys. Morale wins wars. I'm just saying I would have gotten Pluto even if it didn't have the 10% morale, because the other things in it are so good, like tech cost. Really, I'd say the manpower recovery might be even more powerful than the morale. I'm a hardcore disciple of ideas that give manpower, manpower recovery and morale.

Ralepozozaxe
Sep 6, 2010

A Veritable Smorgasbord!

OneTwentySix posted:

I can't speak for North or Central American since I haven't played them in a few patches, but as Inca, you need to get to Admin 5 and get Exploration filled ASAP so you can get into position to reform your religion ASAP. Mil tech helps you against any other tribes and can let you beat small stacks if you absolutely have to of Europeans. Every year you waste prior to reforming your religion is a year that Europe has to get stronger, get better entrenched in the New World, and to take most/all of your country in a single war. Moving the first idea to Admin 5 really, really hurts natives, because that's 10-15 years of points, which means you're colonizing with one colonist and 10 settler growth per year. It also means you have to spend your diplo points on the useless tech 2 that doesn't really get you anything. You could invest these points, but you don't really get a lot of benefit from them since your land is crap to begin with and a lot of it is mountains with a + development cost penalty.


Native navies were removed a few patches out, which also means that you can only colonize by adjacent land provinces (Caribbean is off limits), you can't get explorers to explore sea zones, etc. Natives were a bit too easy to play in previous patches, but they've been getting more and more penalties with each patch. Before Common Sense, it was really, really difficult to survive as Inca, but if you tried a few times and got lucky, you could get into position to reform and then westernize 10-20 years after the Europeans show up, and during most of that time, there were things you could do. Now, by 1500, you'll have colonized about 5 provinces - you'll get exploration at about this time so you can colonize a bit faster then, but it could be 20-40 years before you get close enough to westernize and there will be absolutely nothing to do. You also can't take coastal provinces, because until you reform your government, anyone that has completed Exploration can declare war on you and end your run. Before Common Sense, I was generally able to start my westernization around 1510 or so if I had really good leaders the whole run.

Basically, they have two expansions that flesh out natives that made them fun to play, and then they constantly hit them with stuff every patch since that has made them weaker and weaker until they just aren't any fun to play once you've beaten your neighbors, and they got especially hit hard with Common Sense with pretty much every major change. Common Sense is a blast as a European, but it took all the fun out of playing a native tribe, and so it's just baffling to see them get hit with another thing without any compensation. At the very least, I think that the +15 colonist technology could be moved to Dip 2, which offers absolutely nothing to anyone that has to actually research it. Even if you can afford a second colony, 10 growth/year means that in ten years, you have the equivalent of your colonist passing its check four times, so why bother? A lot of the provinces you have to colonize to reach the Europeans also have a penalty to growth, too. I'd also like to see them get a crappy unique trade ship so they can at least explore once they get exploration. Most native tribes by the ocean had some form of seafaring vessel.

The North American's lost a lot with the common sense patch, even if they gained a bit. Their buildings now cost 100 instead of 10, and they are limited by development. Almost every province in North America is 1/1/1 development so you have to spend quite a few points to get that second building slot, not including the time it would take to save up the money. They still have unique buildings, but you wouldn't build them first as you need the money buildings to actually set out. CoP gave the buildings to NA so they had something to build and do while they waited for the Europeans. I would at least like to see the buildings cost 10 again, as they lose them when they reform their government. That, or give them a capital only development boost, like their capital gets +2/+2/+2 or something like that.

Star
Jul 15, 2005

Guerilla war struggle is a new entertainment.
Fallen Rib
Why is it that it's always the runs where I plan to just knock off some achievements that turn into my luckiest ones... Started a game as Castille so I could do the colonial and trade achievements and to gain some security from France I bind my dynasty to Aragon and get the PUs over them and Naples. Then I accidentally gain an PU over Austria, and 100 years later one over Lithuania who has broken free from Poland and conquered quite some large swathes of Russia. So in the middle 17th century I am the largest land power on earth, the only colonizer in Africa and Asia, since I hurried my way there in order to do Trade Hegemon, and have two of the most powerful nations in PUs. Plus 12 merchants and 4 colonists. I didn't play on doing the Spain as emperor achievement since it felt too annoying but now I think that if I just manage to get three electors as vassals I should be fine.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

I err ... what?





Help me out here, there is clearly a fortress visible on the map, yet it does literally nothing?

aeglus
Jul 13, 2003

WEEK 1 - RETIRED
I almost wish I didn't start doing an Ottoman game since I haven't taken humanism yet despite it being 1570 (though about to get free westernization off of Danzig). Having endless rebels because I have too many provinces without fort protection is annoying as gently caress. Every time I get close to getting rid of the revolt risk some assholes pop up and add another 10 years of separatism. I don't care how balanced the devs might think it is, not a fun mechanic at all.

The funny thing is that I can easily stomp any nation in the world but my own rebels beat the poo poo out of me. I wish rebs didn't steal your tech and such.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

double nine posted:

I err ... what?





Help me out here, there is clearly a fortress visible on the map, yet it does literally nothing?
They've probably just set fort maintenance to zero.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Poil posted:

They've probably just set fort maintenance to zero.

That's stupid then. When I started this war it was against Provence and Alsace only, Switzerland joined later. So they joined the war despite having forts at 0 maintenance. The AI should have known better surely?

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010
What is the best way to be elected Emporer to the HRE? It feels that beyond having good Diplomatic Reputation/Diplomats (and Legitimacy); that it is imperative to have good Prestige or to be allied with the elector. Is there anything more to it then that?

Alikchi
Aug 18, 2010

Thumbs up I agree

SkySteak posted:

What is the best way to be elected Emporer to the HRE? It feels that beyond having good Diplomatic Reputation/Diplomats (and Legitimacy); that it is imperative to have good Prestige or to be allied with the elector. Is there anything more to it then that?

Improve relations with all the electors and avoid AE, too.

double nine
Aug 8, 2013

Okay, where in the UI can I mothball a specific fort, because it is driving me crazy. I've gone over the entire province view and I'm sure it's not there.

edit: finally I found it.

SkySteak
Sep 9, 2010

Alikchi posted:

Improve relations with all the electors and avoid AE, too.

Does being on good terms with all electors confer some special bonus in general?

Donald Duck
Apr 2, 2007

SkySteak posted:

Does being on good terms with all electors confer some special bonus in general?

Makes it easy to enforce peace but no actual flat bonuses.

Freudian
Mar 23, 2011

SkySteak posted:

Does being on good terms with all electors confer some special bonus in general?

Covers your rear end in case a swing vote swings the wrong way.

Kersch
Aug 22, 2004
I like this internet


gross

Sorced
Nov 5, 2009

:stare:

Gorelab
Dec 26, 2006

double nine posted:

Okay, where in the UI can I mothball a specific fort, because it is driving me crazy. I've gone over the entire province view and I'm sure it's not there.

edit: finally I found it.

Where is it? I haven't been able to find it.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Gorelab posted:

Where is it? I haven't been able to find it.

It's a checkmark on province view

Alikchi
Aug 18, 2010

Thumbs up I agree

Gorelab posted:

Where is it? I haven't been able to find it.

Tiny little checkbox in the province screen.

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PleasingFungus
Oct 10, 2012
idiot asshole bitch who should fuck off

Sheep posted:

France is heavily, heavily neutered with the latest expansion,

how on earth do you figure that?

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