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I'm fine with a repair system as long as it makes sense. The current "mash two similar things together" system is dumb. What part of a baseball bat or tire iron am I using to repair my existing baseball bat and tire iron?
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Jun 30, 2015 17:09
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Moridin920 posted:All in all I wouldn't mind if they kept the NV system or if they ended up just going the Skyrim route of taking durability out but I do think something would be lost if you're not scavenging for parts.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:09
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Witcher did it well without sperch checks just the "right" choices weren't obvious and required paying attention.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:12
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Not that it matters, since durability appears to be out, but my optimal solution would be to have an aggregate skill that factors in Repair, Science and whatever gun is being held. Call it weapon expertise and make it visible to the player instead of gated behind an invisible statsheet. You take these three into some sort of formula and use that to peg a minimum value of any gun used of that type. This represents a knowledge of mechanics, general physics, and skill with that gun. This minimum is a low end of a range for any held weapon (even stuff that would usually be broken junk). Players can still repair their weapons in some fashion to move above this minimum, but it insures that players always have a usable weapon given at least some investment in those skills (you could probably weight repair more heavily, since that makes sense as being the dominant skill in the aggregate). To be honest, just giving players the ability to mod weapons is a decent solution, though. Base weapons are sort of lovely, and stuff only shines when you begin to trick it out with scavenged parts. Well... the idea is good, but Bethesda's implementation is up in the air. In all of the skills systems they design they seem to favor incremental +damage perks over cool, game changing perks (like in NV or SPERG for Skyrim).
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Jun 30, 2015 17:33
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I figure they've replaced durability and repair with the updated crafting system. So instead of hoarding guns to repair your own, you're hoarding guns for their component parts so you can improve your gun. In fact I figure they'll replace the repair skill/perktree with a crafting skill/perktree and have the same kind of upgrade mechanic as was in Skyrim, where your weapons and armor didn't degrade, but you could improve them.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:34
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Wolfsheim posted:I was always a fan of it, actually. Stripping the pieces off of four or five lovely hunting rifles just to get yours in decent condition conveys that post-apocalyptic vibe quite well. In Fallout 1 the Brotherhood tells you that they are the ones responsible for manufacturing the majority of the functional guns the the wasteland. Most people aern't using 200 year old guns, they are being made in machine shops. The Gun Runners in Fallout New Vegas are also manufacturing and selling weapons, as are the Enclave in Fallout 2.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:40
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homeless poster posted:even if you are following the most direct main plot path to nipton, if you bothered to get ed-e and have kept even a few drugs on hand, i can't imagine ever actually losing that fight. i took away that vulpes is a metaphor for how cesar and his legion operate - they're all about intimidation and they're great at brutalizing people who can't/won't defend themselves, but all it takes is someone willing to push back (you/the NCR in the past) and they're immediately broken The first time I played New Vegas, mind it was day 1. This thing just came out. The balance was off, things were different, there were bugs. I don't know what it's like with my modern game because of how it went down that first time I played, i felt like it was worth skipping. but I was pretty well equipped and took my sweet time getting to nipton because you can spend a long time shooting powder gangers and helping out primm. I kept dying trying to kill Vulpes on a medium difficulty run. I may have accomplished killing the shithead finally but I didnt feel like it was worth it.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:48
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Regardless of whatever else happens, I hope that Bethesda lets me craft lockpicks this time around. I'm walking around with millions of dollars in pre-war technology, and my most valuable resource are tiny bits of scrap metal that I apparently can't create myself with a godlike knowledge of mechanical systems, a godlike knowledge of lock systems, and 15 pounds of scrap metal.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:48
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homeless poster posted:even if you are following the most direct main plot path to nipton, if you bothered to get ed-e and have kept even a few drugs on hand, i can't imagine ever actually losing that fight. i took away that vulpes is a metaphor for how cesar and his legion operate - they're all about intimidation and they're great at brutalizing people who can't/won't defend themselves, but all it takes is someone willing to push back (you/the NCR in the past) and they're immediately broken Yeah, it can be a little rough sometimes, but you'll almost certainly have some dynamite or grenades from the Bison Steve or random powder gangers or such. Shoot some chems, open with some explosives and then finish the stragglers. Vulpes has never left Nipton alive in any playthrough of mine. Even ones where I'm beelining my way around the plot loop. EDIT: The real problem with killing Vulpes and the other legion you encounter, is that by the time you get around to the Dinosaur, you've probably got some much tougher legion assassins catching up with you. Those guys are usually a tougher fight then Vulpes, for sure. Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 17:50
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sector_corrector posted:Regardless of whatever else happens, I hope that Bethesda lets me craft lockpicks this time around. I'm walking around with millions of dollars in pre-war technology, and my most valuable resource are tiny bits of scrap metal that I apparently can't create myself with a godlike knowledge of mechanical systems, a godlike knowledge of lock systems, and 15 pounds of scrap metal. I would prefer if they brought back being able to smash down doors with a crowbar, or blow it up with explosives. gently caress locks.
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Jun 30, 2015 17:52
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Problem with removing durability and relying completely on mods to keep things 'interesting', once you make that ideal weapon, that's it, you no longer have any motivation to do anything else with it until you ultimately just get bored with it. That's just makes everything static and lame.
Back Hack fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 17:52
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It's also amazing how badly Bethesda hosed up power armor in FO3. Fully repaired medium armor weighs a LOT less, doesn't make an annoying sound when you walk, and usually has better ancillary perks. Most power armor gives you some sort of penalty, and in general gives you rad resistance which is essentially useless (hilariously so given the final 'twist' of the game). Even the best power armor in the game isn't worth getting compared to a decent suit of combat armor. The poo poo doesn't even sell for a lot compared to its weight, which is strange, since it's loaded down with pre-war technology. The only reason to get power armor is to look like the epic dude on the front of the box (e.g. pandering to morons).
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Jun 30, 2015 17:58
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Back Hack posted:Problem with removing durability and relying completely on mods to keep things 'interesting', once you make that ideal weapon, that's it, you no longer have any motivation to do anything else with it until you ultimately just get bored with it. That's just makes everything static and lame. The problem with durability systems is that it always just ends up as either pointless busywork, or frustrating. I like the idea of having to keep my weapon maintained, fearing my low-durability weapon misfires, etc. But I've never seen an implementation of a durability system that was actually fun. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 18:12
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ban everyone in this thread who says Fallout 4 would be better if it were more like Fallout 2. That game came out in Nineteen Ninety loving Eight. I wasn't old enough to enter into a covenant with our Savior Jesus Christ at that time and now I'm in the twilight of my life. Whether FO1/2 had durability or conversation wheels or was contradictory to FO3 on the biomechanics of Super Mutant reproduction does not matter. The first Fallout is 20 loving years old and isn't even the same genre of game. It shouldn't enter into any aspect of discussion.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:15
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homeless poster posted:even if you are following the most direct main plot path to nipton, if you bothered to get ed-e and have kept even a few drugs on hand, i can't imagine ever actually losing that fight. i took away that vulpes is a metaphor for how cesar and his legion operate - they're all about intimidation and they're great at brutalizing people who can't/won't defend themselves, but all it takes is someone willing to push back (you/the NCR in the past) and they're immediately broken On my first run when the game first came out Vulpes kicked my rear end hard. Granted I didn't have a bunch of dynamite or ED-E or anything but still I had to reload a few times to sort him out. sector_corrector posted:It's also amazing how badly Bethesda hosed up power armor in FO3. Fully repaired medium armor weighs a LOT less, doesn't make an annoying sound when you walk, and usually has better ancillary perks. Most power armor gives you some sort of penalty, and in general gives you rad resistance which is essentially useless (hilariously so given the final 'twist' of the game). Even the best power armor in the game isn't worth getting compared to a decent suit of combat armor. The poo poo doesn't even sell for a lot compared to its weight, which is strange, since it's loaded down with pre-war technology. The only reason to get power armor is to look like the epic dude on the front of the box (e.g. pandering to morons). idk the winterized version had effectively unlimited durability and I could face tank anything anyone cared to shoot at me short of a fat boy  Complaining that a suit of metal armor makes a sound when you walk seems like a ridiculously nitpicky thing to be mad about. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 18:18
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Sharzak posted:ban everyone in this thread who says Fallout 4 would be better if it were more like Fallout 2. That game came out in Nineteen Ninety loving Eight. I wasn't old enough to enter into a covenant with our Savior Jesus Christ at that time and now I'm in the twilight of my life. Whether FO1/2 had durability or conversation wheels or was contradictory to FO3 on the biomechanics of Super Mutant reproduction does not matter. The first Fallout is 20 loving years old and isn't even the same genre of game. It shouldn't enter into any aspect of discussion. I loving hate Fallout 2. I hate it so much!!!!!!
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Jun 30, 2015 18:19
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Sharzak posted:I wasn't old enough to enter into a covenant with our Savior Jesus Christ at that time and now I'm in the twilight of my life. Do you have loving progeria or something, how could you already be in the twilight of your life in your (presumably) 20s?
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Jun 30, 2015 18:26
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King Vidiot posted:Do you have loving progeria or something, how could you already be in the twilight of your life in your (presumably) 20s? The new pension age is about 30 at this point.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:31
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Raygereio posted:How does occasionally having to use a repair kit, or having to go back to a repair vendor make it interesting and not lame? Because repairing a weapon isn't always available to the player (or even affordable for the player), which mean a player sometimes has to consider options or even other weapons they normally would never consider. It's an occasional monkey wrench thrown in the gears of an otherwise typical playthrough to help break up the static or linear gameplay that a game would have without it.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:34
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Back Hack posted:Problem with removing durability and relying completely on mods to keep things 'interesting', once you make that ideal weapon, that's it, you no longer have any motivation to do anything else with it until you ultimately just get bored with it. That's just makes everything static and lame. Go full on CoD and put in a bunch of different scopes/foregrips/barrel mods/etc so there's no one true gun. If you want to go sneaky, put a silencer on, but its going to make you ADS slower and reduce range/damage. Slap a foregrip on for controllable full auto, or put on an underbarrel GL for maximum splatter effect. That sort of thing.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:35
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evilmiera posted:The new pension age is about 30 at this point. Or maybe he's getting ready for Carrousel.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:35
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I'm twenty and old as poo poo.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:37
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Back Hack posted:Because repairing a weapon isn't always available to the player (or even affordable for the player), which mean a player sometimes has to consider options or even other weapons they normally would never consider. It's an occasional monkey wrench thrown in the gears of an otherwise typical playthrough to help break up the static or linear gameplay that a game would have without it.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:39
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2house2fly posted:I loving hate Fallout 2. I hate it so much!!!!!! King Vidiot posted:Do you have loving progeria or something, how could you already be in the twilight of your life in your (presumably) 20s? Do you have loving noobgeria or somethinG??????
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Jun 30, 2015 18:53
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Raygereio posted:Making the player consider different weapon can be done through other means (ammo scarcity, damage resist types, etc). And there's even no real reason why that should be enforced by the game. If you as a player want to change things up and try a different kind of weapon. Then go ahead! The lack of a durability system won't prevent you from doing that. Also the durability system only really works like that for the first few hours of the game, after that you have a good enough supply that you can use your gun of choice pretty much exclusively. It quickly just become a tedious money sink, rather than something you have to deal with in the field. The only other parts of the game where it's relevant are the DLCs like The Pitt or Dead Money that take all your equipment from you. They can still do "steal all your equipment" quests without durability so I am happy to see it go.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:56
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Raygereio posted:Making the player consider different weapon can be done through other means (ammo scarcity, damage resist types, etc). And there's even no real reason why that should be enforced by the game. If you as a player want to change things up and try a different kind of weapon. Then go ahead! The lack of a durability system won't prevent you from doing that. I rarely meet anyone who doesn't find that one gun that makes everyone dead much better than others (whichever gun they decide that is), and just use that for everything. In most games. Everyone finds a comfort zone with certain weapons. I've been in situations where that particular gun broke from overuse. I wasn't in a position where I could maintain it for a while. It forced me to pick weapons up off the ground and defend myself. I wouldn't have used these weapons otherwise, even if I ever got it in my head to "mix things up". I had to use them, which I felt was kinda cool. Your weapon breaking, killing someone, picking up their dropped gun, fighting off your attackers, then tossing it back on the floor afterwards. That's pretty cool imo. I think repairing things fits snugly into a post apoc setting, and would go very well with fallout 4's seemingly limitless ability to also modify weapons. If you want to run around shooting things without being bothered by "busywork" or whatnot, just go play CoD instead of a RPG. They're making efforts to improve combat, but these games have never been shooters. They're Role Playing Games. Play a role. Fix your dumb guns, chump! As for lockpick and hacking, I'm of a mind that your skills in those subjects should determine how difficult the minigame is, and whatever barriers to trying should piss off and become "if your skill is X amount, force the lock or 'puter with 100% chance to skip the minigame" to cut the tedium of bothering with easy locks or computers later on. When I can't even try picking a lock and have to come back later if I remember. That takes me right out of it. Speech is an entirely different story, and I don't think any simple idea is enough. I really don't think there should be passing or failing options, just options with different outcomes. I don't even think there should be a speech skill in this type of game tbh. Maybe fallout 4 will be going that way with its dialogue wheel. Who knows. Cheap Shot fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 18:57
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I Fallout 2 worth playing? I got 1 and 2 when GoG gave them out for free a year or two ago. I tried Fallout 1 to the exit of the first vault and couldn't figure out how to fight the rats that attacked me, so I never went back.. but I also have Fallout 2, and this time I found a keyboard reference chart. I've watched a playthrough of 1 so I'm up on the story if that factors at all.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:57
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Fallout 2 is from motherfucking 1998. poo poo. I wasn't even retired yet back then.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:58
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New Leaf posted:I Fallout 2 worth playing? I got 1 and 2 when GoG gave them out for free a year or two ago. I tried Fallout 1 to the exit of the first vault and couldn't figure out how to fight the rats that attacked me, so I never went back.. but I also have Fallout 2, and this time I found a keyboard reference chart. I've watched a playthrough of 1 so I'm up on the story if that factors at all. Yup Fallout 2 is the best Fallout. No discussion.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:02
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Phlegmish posted:Fallout 2 is from motherfucking 1998. poo poo. I wasn't even retired yet back then. I didn't have a computer at that point. At all. I've played it since, and really enjoyed it, but using a game that came out when the personal computer was still mostly a tool for successful businessmen or a novelty for the affluent and upper middle class as a measuring stick for modern games is the stupidest goddamn hangup I've ever loving encountered.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:04
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Most people in the West had computers in 1998. Internet, yeah, that wasn't universal yet. 1998 actually is not all that long ago. It's the same year Baldur's Gate was released.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:07
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Phlegmish posted:
It's 17 years ago, which is like a third as long as video games have been around if you count Pong. I know we're all having a laugh at the hyperbole he used because of his pissy way of expressing himself but 17 years old, in video game terms, is positively ancient.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:11
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:Have you tried substituting the shortening in the recipe for fruit paste? You can make really good Halloween cookies simply by using canned pumpkin in a basic chocolate chip recipe, they come out orange. I've tried a wide variety of fruit pastes: apples, carrots, pumpkin, dates, I can't recommend citrus since the pulp is a bit too watery and cookies made with blended pineapple come out leathery. a top post in this thrad
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Jun 30, 2015 19:12
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Who gives a drat if a game is old? I really don't understand this argument at all. If one can run a game on the computer, then what's the problem? "Outdated" is one of the dumbest words thrown around in the gaming industry. There's so much good gaming to be had if one goes back a bit in time, and even more if you can dig up rarer games that aren't usually in the "top 100 lists" that sites crap out every once in a while. There's such a history (that is sadly pretty hidden) in gaming that is just dismissed because, yeah... those are OLD games and we obviously can't play those any more. Well, why not? And this is coming from someone who is quite enjoying Witcher 3 and GTA V at the moment.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:14
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Populous: The Beginning was released in 1998. Game kicks rear end. I think late nineties you're entering the modern age, with quite a lot of games that hold up decently even today.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:18
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Cheap Shot posted:If you want to run around shooting things without being bothered by "busywork" or whatnot, just go play CoD instead of a RPG. I actually think the situation you described sounds neat. The problem though is that if you constantly get into those situations, it stops being neat and becomes annoying. Eventually I find myself wanting to progress, instead of constantly having to stop and scrounge around for a weapon. The obvious sollution to that is to give the player access to more resources to fix/replace your weapons, but then once you amass enough resources the durability system stops having any relevance and it's just ends up being pointless busywork. Like I said before; I like the idea of having to keep my weapon maintained, fearing my low-durability weapon misfires, etc. But I've never seen an implementation of a durability system that was actually fun. I'd be very interested if someone were to develop a fun durability system. But as long we don't have a fun one and only lovely ones, I think it's a better idea to not have one at all. And by the way. Cheap Shot posted:All I hope for the gameplay is that they don't lock you out of attempting things if you don't meet a criteria. Like auto failing alternate dialogue if your charisma isn't high enough, or having to remember to revisit places later because you couldn't bring yourself to even try picking a lock or hacking a computer.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:19
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Some games age better than others, of course. I can't really speak for Fallout 2. I think it's fine to speculate and make wish lists about what things you'd like to return from Ye Olden Fallout Dayes in 4, but dismissal of the Bethesda model wholesale or saying the game will be "garbage" or whatever compared to FO2 is probably an exercise in futility at this point and sort of weighs down discussion.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:25
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Durability sucks and it's just busywork. They should make ammo rarer and more varied instead e: grammar is hard frajaq fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Jun 30, 2015 |
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Jun 30, 2015 19:27
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frajaq posted:Durability sucks and it's just busywork. They should ammo rarer and more varied instead This makes a lot more sense. You need some decent chemistry to make any kind of gunpowder than isn't lovely smoke filled black powder. Not to mention stuff like needle ammo or Microfusion cells, or the firing caps. Guns are just fancy tubes, any idiot can make a gun out of a pipe. Making ammo is a lot harder, yet it seems to proliferate the wasteland.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:32
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If you gave me a pipe, I probably could not make a gun out of it without detailed instructions, but maybe if I make the Bicyclops build for Fallout 4, I just will not give myself that perk. I want more perk info. I want to start building characters with the points and stuff.
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Jun 30, 2015 19:35
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