|
Codiekitty posted:If you thought FF7 had too many party characters, I can't imagine what you'd think of Chrono Cross or Suikoden. I thought it was the common opinion that CC had too many party members for its own good.
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 15:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
Prism posted:It's prettier and you can do a thing where some attacks launch into the air (a ridiculous amount; there's a gauge that tells you how far, it's measured in tenths of a meter, and IIRC it doesn't even show up until you break 3m). Other attacks can juggle them and using Critical instead of Combo can slam them down for damage based on how high up they were at the time. That sounds pretty cool, yet another thing I'll have to try. Is the story bland bad or offensively bad?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:03
|
|
|
CottonWolf posted:The materia system probably needs some relatively major changes too, given that it functionally makes your party members completely interchangable apart from the weapons they get and their limits. I've tinkered around with modding VII and come to the conclusion that it's not really materia making the characters interchangeable, the stat/weapon/armor design in the base game is just boring and uniform as hell Tonfa fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jun 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:03
|
|
|
mycot posted:I thought it was the common opinion that CC had too many party members for its own good.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
Overminty posted:That sounds pretty cool, yet another thing I'll have to try. The first half of the game ranges from OK to bland. It gets worse later. The combat system got me to finish it anyway. Edit: Also, as usual there's some SP moves that make things real easy, but this is Grandia so that shouldn't actually be a surprise. It also has some really good music - not all of it, but there's some that are stand-out. Prism fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jun 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:04
|
|
|
Okay uh, lemme go with a game that came out not 10 years ago. Dragon Age Inquisition has 9 party members not including yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:06
|
|
|
Let's see...what's the most recent RPG I played... I guess Mass Effect 3? Assuming everyone survived, you had a party of 6, 7 with DLC. Also ME2 is by far the best game and the most popular one and it had..gently caress, like 10 playable characters? Actually 12 I think with DLC. Or, well, my version came with the DLC included so I automatically got Zaeed and Kasumi.
NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jun 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
Only a small handful of people make party-based RPGs in this day and age but you usually have 2 to 3 times the number of people available to you as can fill your party regardless of party size.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 16:07
|
|
|
Overminty posted:I was gonna make this post but with 2. Anything they significantly improve on? The system mechanics aren't technically that different but if you pay close attention there's significant improvements in how the game is built around them. For instance the temporary party members you have while the game is still in tutorial mode have fast lunging animations on their normal attacks that make them really good whereas the healer girl's animations are slow and short ranged enough that she can't always get away with the thing where you get a character that is going to be attacked to combo the enemy coming at them to use the hitstun to buy someone else enough time to critical it. One character has a move that summons three little energy blobs that stick around orbiting her and will damage and knock away anything that contacts them. There's an early enemy type that can lay down time bombs that you then actually have time to move away from. Spells (but not special attacks) will try to play out in real time though the game will pause and let them finish if another spell or special tries to go off due to a limit in how many effects can be onscreen at once (this is a drastic improvement on how Final Fantasy games that have to deal with this issue handle it). I'd really like to see a Grandia-esque the player is playing a command based RPG but the characters are playing an action game type game where none of the attack animations pause the game. It might well wind up being an unplayable mess but I'd like to see it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 18:32
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I even had this interview linked to me that says Americans hate turn-based RPGs. The idea that Americans like action, faster pacing and less reading has been around for decades. It's one of the reasons RPGs took so long to take hold here in the first place. And apparently it continues to be reinforced, seeing as how Square Enix's focus testing told them Americans like QTEs: quote:In terms of elements that the users found positive, the US audience enjoyed the Cinematic Action, which is one of the action elements, and the Japanese audience liked the Live Trigger, which gives choices in dialogue. It's probably more of an audience size thing. It's not that Americans don't like turn-based RPGs so much as the broader general audience prefers action. It's probably the same reason XCOM 2 is going PC only.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 21:25
|
|
|
Well, we can't buy turn-based games to demonstrate that they do well in the states if they've already decided we prefer action-oriented titles. I was not a big fan of the combat in the FF:XV demo, in no small part because I felt that the non-Noctis party members (outside of scripted events) were no more effective than inflatable decoys. I think something like the Gambit system from FFXII is necessary for a real-time RPG with more than one character, and I can see it working with reVII. They're going to have to rebuild the game from the ground up, so I'm looking forward to disappointed reviews sometime in Q4 of 2019.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 21:49
|
|
|
LawfulWaffle posted:They're going to have to rebuild the game from the ground up, so I'm looking forward to disappointed reviews sometime in Q4 of 2019. It'll look great, and this time it'll have a real translation, the music will almost certainly be better recordings of the tracks from the original. Irrespective of what they do with the combat, it's going to be hard to make this into an actively bad game unless they poo poo out a buggy mess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 22:07
|
|
|
LawfulWaffle posted:Well, we can't buy turn-based games to demonstrate that they do well in the states if they've already decided we prefer action-oriented titles. I was not a big fan of the combat in the FF:XV demo, in no small part because I felt that the non-Noctis party members (outside of scripted events) were no more effective than inflatable decoys. I think something like the Gambit system from FFXII is necessary for a real-time RPG with more than one character, and I can see it working with reVII. That is exactly how I feel as well. In combat, they're just there and it feels less like a party-oriented game than anything they've done before outside LR. I had to constantly bail them out just to watch them die over and over again in some of the harder battles. Also, I think exquisite tea was being facetious considering Mass Effect and DA:I are bloated with party members and both text and convo dump and were hugely popular.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
A gambit system wouldn't work in an action combat system. You cannot teach AI to be good at an action game through a series of if then statements simple enough to be player facing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
CottonWolf posted:It'll look great, and this time it'll have a real translation, the music will almost certainly be better recordings of the tracks from the original. Irrespective of what they do with the combat, it's going to be hard to make this into an actively bad game unless they poo poo out a buggy mess. I played FF6 first as a young lad, and I still feel like going from the esper system in that to the materia system feels like one step forward two steps back, they'd need to change a hell of a lot of poo poo to make ff7 a good game. I guess also including a complete overhaul of the story to begin with, it's kind of a loving schizo mess.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:24
|
|
|
What are the odds of them creating a new sidequest to resurrect Aeris?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:32
|
|
|
GrandpaPants posted:What are the odds of them creating a new sidequest to resurrect Aeris? I'd say reasonably good. Almost every RPG I can think of with a remake that had a famous character death had some sort of 'for the fans' way to get around it. The FF releases have mostly avoided that (Leo and Tellah and so-on) but I wouldn't be surprised if just based off it being such a thing that you get a "revive her using a stupid complicate method just in time for the last battle" thing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
The Phantasy Star 2 remake on PS2 (PS2 on PS2?) added a side quest to resurrect Nei, though once you did so she was kinda outclassed by the rest of the party by that point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:37
|
|
|
iastudent posted:The Phantasy Star 2 remake on PS2 (PS2 on PS2?) added a side quest to resurrect Nei, though once you did so she was kinda outclassed by the rest of the party by that point. Yeah, and the Lufia 2 remake included an alternate ending where you keep Maxim and Selene alive and they go back home and raise their kid.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:40
|
|
|
I have pretty much no opinion on turn based vs action games. Make your games fun, that's all I care about in the end. Although I do like games that use rotating mid-combat party members like FFX and Eschalogy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
Unusual posted:I played FF6 first as a young lad, and I still feel like going from the esper system in that to the materia system feels like one step forward two steps back, they'd need to change a hell of a lot of poo poo to make ff7 a good game. I guess also including a complete overhaul of the story to begin with, it's kind of a loving schizo mess. I must be one of few people who really, really liked the materia system. It let you heavily customize your characters and progression really made sense with each weapon supporting more and materia growth giving you new abilities. The only FF ability system that I like more is Tactics' variant of the job system.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
They're not going to make the FF7 remake action-oriented because they would literally be murdered. People have been begging for a remake because they want the thing they know they like already. Square Enix already went through this with DQ9 when they announced it was real-time and then everyone screamed at them until they changed it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
Erebus posted:They're not going to make the FF7 remake action-oriented because they would literally be murdered. People have been begging for a remake because they want the thing they know they like already. The problem is that the thing they know they like may not actually be the game that exists. See: The surprisingly large number of people who can't actually explain FF7's plot or characterization and which leads us to broody angsty cloud, tough tomgirl Tifa and pure maiden Aerith.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 00:00
|
|
|
I will safely say a large majority of the people that will buy FF7 have never heard or remember beyond disk 1 from their nostalgia or other people. If you tell them Aeristh dying was disk 1 of 3, they would go "WHAT?"
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 00:08
|
|
|
Erebus posted:They're not going to make the FF7 remake action-oriented because they would literally be murdered. People have been begging for a remake because they want the thing they know they like already. Square Enix already went through this with DQ9 when they announced it was real-time and then everyone screamed at them until they changed it. The game they remember playing while 10 years old is not going to be liked even if they keep everything the same 20 years later. bloodychill posted:I must be one of few people who really, really liked the materia system. It let you heavily customize your characters and progression really made sense with each weapon supporting more and materia growth giving you new abilities. The only FF ability system that I like more is Tactics' variant of the job system. It made everyone samey and then you just picked whoever had the best stats and limit break.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 00:09
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:The problem is that the thing they know they like may not actually be the game that exists. See: The surprisingly large number of people who can't actually explain FF7's plot or characterization and which leads us to broody angsty cloud, tough tomgirl Tifa and pure maiden Aerith. I think that's going to be the biggest problem with the remake; it's not going to align with people's memories of the game. Even if they replace goofball Cloud with Angsty Cloud, they still have to deal with caring and very attached to Cloud Tifa , nice stepdad Barrett, not broody Vincent, and determined Aeris.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 00:10
|
|
|
FFVII should just be FFV jobs but with materia slots instead of an Ability slot You get the final jobs at the end of disc one when you scoop up the crystals that Aerith was keeping in her gut.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:00
|
|
|
There's literally no way to remake an old rear end game without pissing off a substantial portion of its existing fanbase. This has been proven again and again and again. The kinds of gamers who give enough a poo poo about the game to be actively supporting it 10+ years on will be the most demanding, fickle, anal-retentive spergs imaginable and they will find some flaw serious enough to send you death threats no matter what you do. Like, seriously, has there ever been a remake that didn't draw flack almost immediately for alienating "the true fans" with some design decision or another?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:06
|
|
|
Baby Babbeh posted:There's literally no way to remake an old rear end game without pissing off a substantial portion of its existing fanbase. This has been proven again and again and again. The kinds of gamers who give enough a poo poo about the game to be actively supporting it 10+ years on will be the most demanding, fickle, anal-retentive spergs imaginable and they will find some flaw serious enough to send you death threats no matter what you do. People seemed pretty happy with Resident Evil Remake. I'm sure there was someone out there who was like "Lisa Trevor RUINED EVERYTHING' but by and large it's held up as superior to the original even by diehard fans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:08
|
|
|
There was a bit of criticism over the X-Com remake, but in general it was widely loved.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:09
|
|
|
Baby Babbeh posted:There's literally no way to remake an old rear end game without pissing off a substantial portion of its existing fanbase. This has been proven again and again and again. The kinds of gamers who give enough a poo poo about the game to be actively supporting it 10+ years on will be the most demanding, fickle, anal-retentive spergs imaginable and they will find some flaw serious enough to send you death threats no matter what you do. Tomb Raider I guess.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:People seemed pretty happy with Resident Evil Remake. I'm sure there was someone out there who was like "Lisa Trevor RUINED EVERYTHING' but by and large it's held up as superior to the original even by diehard fans. The difference is that the RE1 remake appeared like 5 or so years and the original game had several sequels that are more regarded than the original, while it's going to be about 20 years between the original FF7 and the remake, the original is still praised as one of the best games EVAR, and there's a huge amount of people that misinterpret the game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:15
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:The difference is that the RE1 remake appeared like 5 or so years and the original game had several sequels that are more regarded than the original, while it's going to be about 20 years between the original FF7 and the remake, the original is still praised as one of the best games EVAR, and there's a huge amount of people that misinterpret the game. Oh yeah, no, it's totally not the same situation. Just that there are games that have had successful remakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:19
|
|
|
closeted republican posted:The difference is that the RE1 remake appeared like 5 or so years and the original game had several sequels that are more regarded than the original, while it's going to be about 20 years between the original FF7 and the remake, the original is still praised as one of the best games EVAR, and there's a huge amount of people that misinterpret the game. REmake is over 13 years old now. Unless you meant in the other direction.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:33
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:REmake is over 13 years old now. Unless you meant in the other direction. I meant at the tme REmake was released. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
Kild posted:Tomb Raider I guess. Haha, no. I didn't send death threats or anything, but I stopped paying attention to new tomb raider games when it became clear they contained QTEs. I'm betting there's someone on the internet that has a similar opinion of QTEs to me, but more extreme.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 02:43
|
|
|
pun pundit posted:Haha, no. I didn't send death threats or anything, but I stopped paying attention to new tomb raider games when it became clear they contained QTEs. I'm betting there's someone on the internet that has a similar opinion of QTEs to me, but more extreme. so you just don't play video games?
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
iastudent posted:The Phantasy Star 2 remake on PS2 (PS2 on PS2?) added a side quest to resurrect Nei, though once you did so she was kinda outclassed by the rest of the party by that point. Wouldn't you also have to revive Neifirst? Because you can kill Neifirst with Nei if you're really overleveled, but Nei dies anyway because she's bound to Neifirst. Which reminds me, how come in Phantasy Star II you can revive Nei at the cloning station as many times as you like up until the underwater dungeon, but after Neifirst kills her the clone woman says "Nope, can't do a thing, she ain't human!" Why not have the hag say something like "Well, I cloned her but she ain't responding. It's as if part of her is missing."
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 02:50
|
|
|
Dr. Eldarion posted:There was a bit of criticism over the X-Com remake, but in general it was widely loved. FFVII is Square-Enix's sacred cow, so the issue is that it's going to get handheld from on high into mediocrity or abject stupidity (emo Cloud, pure Aerith, etc).
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 03:19
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 06:54 |
|
|
Ruggington posted:so you just don't play video games? Oh, there are plenty of video games that do not contain QTEs. Many of them are RPGs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 1, 2015 03:26
|
|