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Well in Zelda there's a game that's three players but all of them are male and identical because the prophecy they wrote said they would be boys so that's that. But he can wear a dress and is androgynous anyway so use your imaginations. Also a new Metroid game where they've just gotten rid of Samus entirely in favor of generic nameless male space marine grunts.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:02
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:ReCore, Wispering Willows, Rise of the Tomb Raider, Fallout 4, The Division, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Assassins Creed Syndicate, Mirror's Edge Catalyst 4 of those aren't new IPs but I appreciate the effort.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:02
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Hadaka Apron posted:Randi Harper has been responsible for loads of harassment and I haven't seen anyone on her side call her out on it. Yeah. There're a lot of assholes on both sides, which is one of the reasons why I stay out of it. At the extreme end of both, it just feels like another case of identity politics.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:06
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Powercrazy posted:If you want to restrict your criteria to the worst part of the game industry feel free. I think it sucks and agree it has a problem appealing to anyone but those in the most broad demographics possible. So you agree that the majority of gaming (as in, the games that the majority of those considered "Gamers" within the console and PC demographics) has a problem with diversity? quote:But unlike Hollywood, the game industry is much easier to enter, and so really what the big publishers do is of no consequence to someone who just wants to play games they enjoy, or make games that appeals to a niche audience. What if the games that people wish to see or play are AAA budget games featuring black protagonists? What if the people who want to see this would like their kids to grow up seeing Cool Black Role Models in their games as well as their movies, and can't convince them to play Le Lolcat Saga 5: The Binding of Dustforce because his peers are playing Call of Shooty 9?
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Jul 2, 2015 01:07
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computer parts posted:4 of those aren't new IPs but I appreciate the effort. What do new IPs have to do with anything? Continuing an IP with female characters, or adding a female main character to an existing IP, doesn't seem out of place.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:08
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Adventure Pigeon posted:What do new IPs have to do with anything? Continuing an IP with female characters, or adding a female main character to an existing IP, doesn't seem out of place. Because it doesn't fit his narrative therefore it doesn't count.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:09
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Neurolimal posted:If you participate you may find out! Every player on the cover of a NBA game made in the past 5 years. Also the guys on the covers of 3 out of 5 of the most recent Madden NFL games. Or do sports games not count, even though they're by far one of the highest selling genres, with sports titles ending up in the top 10 list of most sold games every single year?
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Jul 2, 2015 01:22
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Adventure Pigeon posted:What do new IPs have to do with anything? Continuing an IP with female characters, or adding a female main character to an existing IP, doesn't seem out of place.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:24
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quote:What if the games that people wish to see or play are AAA budget games featuring black protagonists? What if the people who want to see this would like their kids to grow up seeing Cool Black Role Models in their games as well as their movies, and can't convince them to play Le Lolcat Saga 5: The Binding of Dustforce because his peers are playing Call of Shooty 9? Sounds like gently caress up priorities as parents. Or more likely a white guilt addled poster speaking for idealized minorities.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:25
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INH5 posted:Every player on the cover of a NBA game made in the past 5 years. Also the guys on the covers of 3 out of 5 of the most recent Madden NFL games.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:25
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Cingulate posted:Not a protagonist from all I know about sports games. You usually control a bunch of guys. If you're playing a licensed NBA game, you're going to be controlling a black guy most of the time no matter what team you pick.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:27
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circ dick soleil posted:The two gamergate boards on 8chan, /ggrevolt/ and /gamergatehq/, as well as KotakuInAction, are all heavily focused on fighting the forces of SJWs, leftism, liberalism, social marxism and feminism in videogames, terms they use largely interchangeably. Very little of it is actually focused on ethics, and if it is, that ethical focus is expected to take a backseat if it comes in conflict with GamerGate's less-than-ethical goals, lest you become the dreaded ethics-cuck. The useful idiots like Powercrazy and goku im piss who think gamergate is anything but a harassment campaign are practically indistinguishable from the useful idiots who claim the confederate flag is about "heritage not hate." The approaches are nearly identical.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:28
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INH5 posted:If you're playing a licensed NBA game, you're going to be controlling a black guy most of the time no matter what team you pick.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:29
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Starving Autist posted:The useful idiots like Powercrazy and goku im piss who think gamergate is anything but a harassment campaign are practically indistinguishable from the useful idiots who claim the confederate flag is about "heritage not hate." The approaches are nearly identical. Nice Godwin argument. ----------------
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Jul 2, 2015 01:29
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goku im piss posted:Post where I said that and the context related to it. I said she made a racist statement. You said this: goku im piss posted:Do you have to say "I hate a certain race for what they do" more than once to be considered racist? She didn't say that she hates a certain race for what they do. quote:
Read the tweet. She says she hates being catcalled by hood men from cars, not that she hates hood men. This bizarre obtuseness makes you look even worse after being caught lying. quote:Point where I said she hated people of a certain race. The exact quote. I said she made a racist statement. Again: goku im piss posted:Do you have to say "I hate a certain race for what they do" more than once to be considered racist? You can weasel around, but that was in response to me saying: quote:Remarks is plural: what has she said since 2010 that's racist? So you clearly implied that's what she said. quote:Then we're just going have to Disagree. I'm not writing a long dissertation about it just to continue a circular argument with you. You lied about what a multiracial journalist said in a smear on her, implied she hated black people in a really stupid way, did a baffled thing as though the idea of black people using racist language with each other is somehow novel, and just generally acted like a dumbass. No wonder you want to drop it. I've rarely seen someone step on their own dick that hard.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:30
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computer parts posted:4 of those aren't new IPs but I appreciate the effort. Transistor? Does that count? Red is a female protagonist.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:30
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Narciss posted:Nice Godwin argument. It isn't an argument, just an observation of objectively verifiable reality.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:30
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Cingulate posted:He asked for new IPs. It's okay to shift goalposts, but answering "Tomb Raider" requires you to shift the goal post by almost 2 decades. Ah, ok, I didn't see the whole chain of quotes. Yeah, Tomb Raider doesn't really fit that.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:32
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computer parts posted:4 of those aren't new IPs but I appreciate the effort. The better question would be of the new IPs announced, how many featured women or non-white characters.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:42
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Powercrazy posted:Sounds like gently caress up priorities as parents. Really? You think it's hosed up priorities for a parent to be worried that their kid might not have many role models that look like him? Are you a parent? quote:Collider: At Comic-Con, you talked about how important it was for you to be a part of Guardians of the Galaxy because of your son’s recognition of the lack of diversity in superhero movies. Does that make it extra exciting to be a part of the film and to be working on that now?  Pictured: Djimon Hounsou, a White Guilt addled poster speaking for idealized minorities It's not like this kind of concern is new in general, let alone Games.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:43
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e:f,b
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Jul 2, 2015 01:45
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Cingulate posted:No. The "name them" was clearly referring to these NEW IPs (with either minority, or female protagonists). Either way, now that this is clear: is it hard to think of 5 new IPs FTFY As I said above, the better question would be: Of the new IPs announced, how many featured women or non-white characters. 50% of games at E3 allowed the player to play as a woman, 9% had exclusively female protagonists, the question was not applicable in 14% of games, and 27% had exclusively male player characters. Not ideal, but not bad either. Let us English fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 01:46
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Let us English posted:50% of games at E3 allowed the player to play as a woman, 9% had exclusively female protagonists, the question was not applicable in 14% of games, and 27% had exclusively male player characters. Not ideal, but not bad either. Speaking of which, femfreq had a similar set of stats, but one of the comments attached to it confused me a bit. quote:These numbers also reflect the fact that a purely binary understanding of gender was on display in the games featured at E3, with no options featured that might allow players to pick from a wider spectrum of gender identities or presentations. I'm not exactly sure what "a wider spectrum of gender identities" would mean with regards to character creation.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:52
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Let us English posted:Either way, now that this is clear: is it hard to think of 5 new IPs I didn't deny that we're steadily improving (for female protagonists moreso than black protagonists), just that historically the Games Industry has not been very diverse at all (hence the emphasis of "5 black AAA protagonists in 5 years"). quote:I'm not exactly sure what "a wider spectrum of gender identities" would mean with regards to character creation. I think you can TLDR this to "Gender Sliders are rad." It might also be a play at transgendered representation, which is actually a tricky subject and something that I might actually agree with any potential arguments that feminists focused on games are misguided; Transgendered people want to be identified as their gender, not Transgendered Gender, If they've transitioned to the point that they are comfortable in their bodies then they'd identify with the female character, even if the character might not be transgendered. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 01:53
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Neurolimal posted:It might also be a play at transgendered representation, which is actually a tricky subject and something that I might actually agree with any potential arguments that feminists focused on games are misguided; Transgendered people want to be identified as their gender, not Transgendered Gender, If they've transitioned to the point that they are comfortable in their bodies then they'd identify with the female character, even if the character might not be transgendered. Yeah, this is what confused me. To my understanding, transgendered people want to be fully thought of and treated as their gender identity, they don't want to define themselves as something like "woman that has/used to have a penis". I can understand desiring representation of them in games by having developers create stories about them, but I'm not sure about the purpose of it in a character creation system.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:07
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Link can wear a dress.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:09
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So if we look at E3, most of the games shown were pre-existing IPs. I'm only going to list the IPs I'm pretty sure are new. There's a reasonable chance I'll miss a few. This is just based off the wikipedia page since finding a comprehensive list is a pain. Some games I list as no indication. I wasn't able to find anything about the gender or race of the protagonist. Many of these are VR games designed with the Oculus Rift in mind, so presumably the character is gender/race neutral, but I suppose we'll have to see if there's a white male stand-in. I'm also limiting it to the ones I read under the major publishers descriptions, as I'm worried I'd miss too many outside those. It's also worth noting that given the hubbub over diversity, developers may choose to emphasize a female or minority MC and simply not say anything if it's a white male MC, so it's possible some of these unknown/no indication games have white male MCs. If I missed any games, or if there's more information on the race and gender of a MC that I didn't add, you should feel free to say something. ReCore - Female Protagonist The Last Guardian - Asian male? For Honor - Mostly male, white. The Samurai is probably Asian. Horizon: Zero Dawn - Female Damaged Core - No indication. BattleCry - Male and female VR Sports Challenge - No indication Beyond Eyes - Female Sea of Thieves - Male or female Gigantic - You get to be an animal person or something. Tacoma - No indication. Given the company previously made Gone Home, I would imagine they'd have no issues with a minority or female MC. Cuphead - You are a cuphead thing. Firewatch - white male Genei Ibun Roku ♯FE - Asian male Project Setsuna - Too early to tell.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:12
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Adventure Pigeon posted:
Finally my people are represented in a game.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:14
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Motto posted:Speaking of which, femfreq had a similar set of stats, but one of the comments attached to it confused me a bit. Going by the tumblr thread I don't think games are big enough to include the full spectrum of genders.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:15
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Powercrazy posted:Sounds like gently caress up priorities as parents. Or more likely a white guilt addled poster speaking for idealized minorities. "Blacks don't play videogames" -Powercrazy, TYOOL 2015
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Jul 2, 2015 02:25
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I think a lot of the under representation of women is due to the fact that many of the games being made are pre-existing IPs, including some very old ones, that started out with male characters and have just kept on chugging. That being said, there have been the introduction of female MCs into some of them, Dishonored 2 being a good example. If any group is under represented in gaming, especially given demographics, it's probably blacks and Latinos. There really aren't a lot of minority MCs outside of games where you can pick the character's race and gender. Some of this is due to many games being made in Japan and Korea. Some of this is, again, due to the institutional momentum of old IPs keeping on, some is probably due to assholes thinking that since protagonists have always been white, they might as well keep on keeping on, but it wouldn't surprise me if, oddly enough, some of this is due to developers and publishers being afraid of being labeled as racists. Mishandling a black character could easily backfire in a huge way. I remember how one of the big fiascos of E3 involved the new Deus Ex game's use of the term "mechanical apartheid" to describe one of the themes. Even though this term was coined by a black developer on the Deus Ex team, it was still received very poorly. Combine that with the fact that many AAA title characters are violent assholes that barely qualify as the good guy and you can see how this could turn into a mess that a major publisher wouldn't want to touch. Sooner or later this is an issue that will hopefully be confronted and we'll move on to see games with more diversity, not just for the sake of diversity but because I think it will lead to more interesting characters and stories, but there're hurdles that will have to be overcome that may not seem obvious at first.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:34
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Adventure Pigeon posted:Yeah. There're a lot of assholes on both sides, which is one of the reasons why I stay out of it. At the extreme end of both, it just feels like another case of identity politics. That's pretty much why I follow this in the first place. It's like following the Republican primary, where everyone is horrible.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:35
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https://youtu.be/SMsiixhZ72Q gently caress you gamergate!
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Jul 2, 2015 02:36
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Gianthogweed posted:https://youtu.be/SMsiixhZ72Q this is some poes law poo poo right here
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Jul 2, 2015 02:37
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Gianthogweed posted:https://youtu.be/SMsiixhZ72Q What is the purpose of posting this? Who is going to watch this? Can you summarize, please?
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Jul 2, 2015 02:42
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Popular Thug Drink posted:What is the purpose of posting this? Who is going to watch this? Can you summarize, please? There is a large amount of assholes and nutcases on both sides that've fed off each other to created two highly polarized and kind of embarrassing movements that probably aren't even sure what they're arguing about anymore.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:54
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Popular Thug Drink posted:What is the purpose of posting this? Who is going to watch this? Can you summarize, please? 1. Just keeping the thread up to date with the latest news on gamergate. 2. Anyone can watch it who pleases. 3. The Summary? Some guy wanted tell gamergate to gently caress a horse.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:54
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Adventure Pigeon posted:There is a large amount of assholes and nutcases on both sides that've fed off each other to created two highly polarized and kind of embarrassing movements that probably aren't even sure what they're arguing about anymore. See, from the outside, the whole GG thing looks wildly incoherent. Is it about ethics in game journalism? Is it about SJWs daring to say that games are racist and sexist and should be improved? If it's about ethics in game journalism, why are they attacking journalists and not the megastudios that poo poo up games journalism? None of it makes the slightest amount of logical sense. The other side basically seems to be saying "These assholes are wrong and acting like assholes", and from the outside, it looks totally correct. That people on the 'anti' GG side have done nasty poo poo is almost certainly true, but their complaint, at least, is coherent: GG is nonsense and should go away. That seems to be a pretty understandable argument.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:58
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So in this threads educated opinion, who is "winning" and why
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Jul 2, 2015 03:01
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Adventure Pigeon posted:I think a lot of the under representation of women is due to the fact that many of the games being made are pre-existing IPs, including some very old ones, that started out with male characters and have just kept on chugging. That being said, there have been the introduction of female MCs into some of them, Dishonored 2 being a good example. If any group is under represented in gaming, especially given demographics, it's probably blacks and Latinos. There really aren't a lot of minority MCs outside of games where you can pick the character's race and gender. Some of this is due to many games being made in Japan and Korea. Some of this is, again, due to the institutional momentum of old IPs keeping on, some is probably due to assholes thinking that since protagonists have always been white, they might as well keep on keeping on, but it wouldn't surprise me if, oddly enough, some of this is due to developers and publishers being afraid of being labeled as racists. Mishandling a black character could easily backfire in a huge way. I remember how one of the big fiascos of E3 involved the new Deus Ex game's use of the term "mechanical apartheid" to describe one of the themes. Even though this term was coined by a black developer on the Deus Ex team, it was still received very poorly. Combine that with the fact that many AAA title characters are violent assholes that barely qualify as the good guy and you can see how this could turn into a mess that a major publisher wouldn't want to touch. Sooner or later this is an issue that will hopefully be confronted and we'll move on to see games with more diversity, not just for the sake of diversity but because I think it will lead to more interesting characters and stories, but there're hurdles that will have to be overcome that may not seem obvious at first. Control Volume posted:So in this threads educated opinion, who is "winning" and why
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Jul 2, 2015 03:03
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