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mycot posted:What happened then? This is the first time I've heard of problems with them, but man, that's terrible. Mostly just took for-goddamned-ever to come out, if I remember right. The hardcover books are gorgeous, though.
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Jul 1, 2015 23:07
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They also did a really poor job on the PDF release (no TOC/bookmarks/etc).
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Jul 1, 2015 23:37
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I have never heard of these Eos people before but they must be shockingly unprofessional to do something like this. So I guess they are pretty average as far as this industry goes.
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Jul 1, 2015 23:51
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have never heard of these Eos people before but they must be shockingly unprofessional to do something like this. So I guess they are pretty average as far as this industry goes. The story of Eos is pretty sad. The original company was good, but went under, Edited for less clarity because I don't remember/know the exact story. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 00:31
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paradoxGentleman posted:So I guess they are pretty average as far as this industry goes. Ugh, you don't know the half of it. I was once told by a company owner that their long-time editor, who had carried the title "editor" for more than thirty years and was credited in every goddamned book they published as "Editor", deserved to be cut some slack because he wasn't a professional editor. THAT'S THE loving DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL YOU HALFWIT! The trad games industry has a serious problem with professionalism.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:32
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Plague of Hats posted:The story of Eos is pretty sad. The original company was good, but went under, then got bought by this Chinese ?fan? who has driven it off a cliff, along with Jenna Moran who always deserves better. She really does. I understand maybe 30% of what I read when I read Chuubo and I can still tell that it's something else.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:35
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Jenna is also just a super nice person.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:37
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I have not interacted with her (unless she is also a goon that I never identified as her) so I have no experience on the matter, but I'll take your word for it.
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Jul 2, 2015 00:41
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:The trad games industry has a serious problem with professionalism. This, a thousand times this. The bigger companies and people who have been around a while are generally more professional. The individual creators and the "HAY I LOVE GAMES I THINK I'LL PUBLISH ONE" are the worst offenders. The worst part is, there seems to be no halfway.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:29
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Peas and Rice posted:This, a thousand times this. And there are more of the latter than of the former. There's also a healthy heaping dose of, "OMG I LOVE THIS PROPERTY! I'LL PAY YOU TO WRITE FOR IT! I'LL DO ANYTHING!" Another great story is the time I interviewed as a staff developer for one of the big names in the industry that would have required me relocating (with a wife and two kids) to another state. The salary for this position, which was called "entry level" but which involved developing books from outline to publication, riding herd over freelance riders and artists, and doing scads of editing, was a princely 27,500 a year. I'm a grown-rear end man. I'm nearly 40. I have two young daughters to feed. My counter-offer was met with disbelief, and I was told, "No one works in the trad games industry to get rich!" Yeah, well, that may be the case, but sub-40 grand a year to start isn't rich by any stretch of the imagination and I need to feed my family. Thank god my wife has a good job.
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Jul 2, 2015 01:54
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Kai Tave posted:Speaking of successful goon Kickstarters, when are Battle Century G and Legacy: Life Among the Ruins going to go up for general sale? BCG will go for sale after all backer rewards have been sent. That should be sometime this month.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:02
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:And there are more of the latter than of the former. There's also a healthy heaping dose of, "OMG I LOVE THIS PROPERTY! I'LL PAY YOU TO WRITE FOR IT! I'LL DO ANYTHING!" Another great story is the time I interviewed as a staff developer for one of the big names in the industry that would have required me relocating (with a wife and two kids) to another state. The salary for this position, which was called "entry level" but which involved developing books from outline to publication, riding herd over freelance riders and artists, and doing scads of editing, was a princely 27,500 a year. I'm a grown-rear end man. I'm nearly 40. I have two young daughters to feed. My counter-offer was met with disbelief, and I was told, "No one works in the trad games industry to get rich!" Yeah, well, that may be the case, but sub-40 grand a year to start isn't rich by any stretch of the imagination and I need to feed my family. Thank god my wife has a good job. sub 40k a year is a joke in any profession, let alone publishing. that princely sum you quoted is only a few dollars more than minimum wage.
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Jul 2, 2015 02:07
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Lord Frisk posted:sub 40k a year is a joke in any profession, let alone publishing. that princely sum you quoted is only a few dollars more than minimum wage. Oh, I'm well aware. Keep in mind that this would be salary, and I would have been putting in, like, 55 hours a week on average. Most of these big companies act like they're doing you an honor just by talking to them. This is why I continue to freelance, and tell most people that I'm a stay-at-home dad and a writer on the side rather than the other way around. Edit: I may, may be a bit bitter and/or jaded after spending sixteen years in and around this industry. I may also be hours from finishing an assignment on deadline day and have reached the, "gently caress this assignment, gently caress this editor, gently caress this property, gently caress writing, gently caress games, gently caress this earth, if I never write another word again it'll be too soon all I want to do is be a ditch digger now" part of writing. CroatianAlzheimers fucked around with this message at 02:13 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 02:10
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Has anyone played Mare Nostrum - Empires? It looks like a beautiful game and I would like to back it but….
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Jul 2, 2015 02:28
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:Oh, I'm well aware. Keep in mind that this would be salary, and I would have been putting in, like, 55 hours a week on average. Most of these big companies act like they're doing you an honor just by talking to them. This is why I continue to freelance, and tell most people that I'm a stay-at-home dad and a writer on the side rather than the other way around. you wouldn't be wrong. we're talking about an industry that considers hitting deadlines "above and beyond" normal protocol. Keep fighting the good fight. Working class shmoes make and break this world. (I'm right there with you)
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Jul 2, 2015 02:36
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Echophonic posted:Mostly just took for-goddamned-ever to come out, if I remember right. The hardcover books are gorgeous, though. There was also an issue where some of their hardcover stock was poorly stored before shipping, and several buyers were reporting their copies were damaged by mildew.
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Jul 2, 2015 03:03
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:Oh, I'm well aware. Keep in mind that this would be salary, and I would have been putting in, like, 55 hours a week on average. Most of these big companies act like they're doing you an honor just by talking to them. Yeah, I'm reminded of this poo poo. A close reading of it is pretty appalling. Shockingly honest at points, but still appalling.
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Jul 2, 2015 04:09
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, I'm reminded of this poo poo. A close reading of it is pretty appalling. Shockingly honest at points, but still appalling. Hahahahahahahahahahaha. I got my start writing for The Rifter. Thank god I'm not affiliated with Palladium anymore. What a shitshow.
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Jul 2, 2015 04:53
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, I'm reminded of this poo poo. A close reading of it is pretty appalling. Shockingly honest at points, but still appalling. Jesus. What a down home folksy-jokey way of saying "we'll pay you less than 1¢ per word."
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Jul 2, 2015 06:18
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Plague of Hats posted:Jesus. What a down home folksy-jokey way of saying "we'll pay you less than 1¢ per word." Welcome to what passes for "corporate culture" at Palladium Books.
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Jul 2, 2015 06:21
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Remember, Kevin Sembieda is the guy who likes to gently caress over freelancers by gushing with praise about how good their work is riiiiiight up until it's done, then suddenly it's worthless garbage that he'll have to rewrite himself (read, use mostly as-is with some copy-paste crap tossed in for flavor) but he'll be generous and still pay you like 70% of what he agreed upon initially. He'll even take credit as the lead writer to spare you any further indignities.
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Jul 2, 2015 07:24
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Kai Tave posted:Remember, Kevin Sembieda is the guy who likes to gently caress over freelancers by gushing with praise about how good their work is riiiiiight up until it's done, then suddenly it's worthless garbage that he'll have to rewrite himself (read, use mostly as-is with some copy-paste crap tossed in for flavor) but he'll be generous and still pay you like 70% of what he agreed upon initially. He'll even take credit as the lead writer to spare you any further indignities. Man, I saw so much of that poo poo first hand. So many people thrown under the bus. So much blame thrown around. Ugh.
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Jul 2, 2015 07:34
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It's always bothered me a little that Bill Coffin felt obliged to apologize after his fairly scathing breakdown of why Kevin Sembieda is both a lovely person to work for and kind of a lovely person in general, because if anyone in that particular relationship should feel that that've behaved unprofessionally and need to apologize it's Sembieda.
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Jul 2, 2015 07:39
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Kai Tave posted:It's always bothered me a little that Bill Coffin felt obliged to apologize after his fairly scathing breakdown of why Kevin Sembieda is both a lovely person to work for and kind of a lovely person in general, because if anyone in that particular relationship should feel that that've behaved unprofessionally and need to apologize it's Sembieda. It's unprofessional to call somebody out that publicly and hardcore. "I will never work for Kevin and Palladium games ever again, it's a shitshow." is all that really needed to be said, but he really ripped into everything. With that said quote:Roughly ten dollars ($10.00) per "printed" typeset page of text (that's roughly 2 to 2 1/2 single spaced computer pages at 10-11 point size; see, we're even too cheap and lazy to figure out a per word rate). A small bonusmay be paid to truly outstanding works if our budget allows it, and at Palladium Books Inc.'s sole discretion.
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Jul 2, 2015 07:45
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The General posted:It's unprofessional to call somebody out that publicly and hardcore. "I will never work for Kevin and Palladium games ever again, it's a shitshow." is all that really needed to be said, but he really ripped into everything. It's unprofessional to be as much of a shitbag as Kevin Sembieda seems from all accounts to be, and I feel that once you hit a certain critical threshold of shitbaggery then yeah, you don't get to turn around and act the wounded party when someone who's tired of your yelling and your terrible attitude and your scammy business practices paints people a picture of exactly why they shouldn't work for you instead of just going "Yeah he's a jerk for, like, nonspecific reasons."
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Jul 2, 2015 08:02
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The General posted:This (and the whole page) make me wonder why anybody would ever write for them. There are still people who will fall for the old appeal to exposure, or have no idea what their time and effort is really worth, basically.
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Jul 2, 2015 08:20
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Bieeardo posted:There are still people who will fall for the old appeal to exposure, or have no idea what their time and effort is really worth, basically. Also some folks really want to have their name on AN OFFICIAL [Game Publisher] BOOK no matter what and basically consider getting to call themselves a "professional RPG writer" sufficient payment in and of itself.
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Jul 2, 2015 08:41
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Ropes4u posted:Has anyone played Mare Nostrum - Empires? It looks like a beautiful game and I would like to back it but…. It's a slightly tweaked reprint of a 2003 game that has a very devoted fanbase. Academy Games have done this before with Fief: France 1429 and made a great job of it. I'm honestly tempted to go balls deep for the neoprene map.
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Jul 2, 2015 08:48
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The General posted:It's unprofessional to call somebody out that publicly and hardcore. "I will never work for Kevin and Palladium games ever again, it's a shitshow." is all that really needed to be said, but he really ripped into everything. No, not calling them out about it is from the same corporate protecting school of thought as it being 'unprofessional' to ever discuss your salary with anyone ever, when we all know - or should know - that sharing this information is the only way to improve the rights and working conditions of employees in any industry. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 13:36 on Jul 2, 2015 |
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Jul 2, 2015 13:33
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NTRabbit posted:No, not calling them out about it is from the same corporate protecting school of thought as it being 'unprofessional' to ever discuss your salary with anyone ever, when we all know - or should know - that sharing this information is the only way to improve the rights and working conditions of employees in any industry. This is truth that should be repeated in every workplace. Not openly discussing pay hurts everyone except the company.
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Jul 2, 2015 13:57
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Speaking of professional silence:quote:I hope they [Eos] don't get any even if they do, because I edited Wulin, and I still haven't seen a single dime for it. As much as I respect wanting to avoid just being a public spectacle, and as much as writers and editors and so on talk to each other behind the scenes, there's really no mechanism to inform everyone who deserves to be informed without just dropping this poo poo publicly.
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Jul 2, 2015 14:40
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Jedit posted:It's a slightly tweaked reprint of a 2003 game that has a very devoted fanbase. Academy Games have done this before with Fief: France 1429 and made a great job of it. I'm honestly tempted to go balls deep for the neoprene map. I would mind getting the game but my completionist side demands the chips and dice, and that puts it into crazy money.
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Jul 2, 2015 15:58
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Everyone complaining about ''professionalism'' in this industry (or any industry with freelancers), should consider that a lot of these people are banking on exactly that. If people steal money from you (and that's what it is, theft), are you supposed to be quiet about it because of *~professionalism~*? gently caress that.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:04
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The General posted:It's unprofessional to call somebody out that publicly and hardcore. Glad to see you fell for one of the oldest management tricks in the book.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:28
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Glad to see you fell for one of the oldest management tricks in the book. Basically it's a self-imposed "snitches get stitches". In other news, Mike "Wandering Wizard" "I can't deliver on a kickstarter to save my life" Nystul has started a loving Patreon. His blog posted:Patreon emphasizes that it is a platform for supporting a creator, not the product so that is how I intend to treat it.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:47
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I don't get Patreon. I have a couple of colleagues who do it, but it just seems like straight-up begging to me. As for the whole "Don't air dirty laundry in public" thing, I used to be firmly in that camp because I thought it was professional. I've since left that attitude behind.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:57
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On the bright side, he never produces anything, so nobody will ever be billed.
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Jul 2, 2015 16:58
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CroatianAlzheimers posted:I don't get Patreon. I have a couple of colleagues who do it, but it just seems like straight-up begging to me. Patreon is super useful for people who otherwise might not be able to do something full-time, to be able to do that full-time. Beaglerush, a great australian streamer, is able to do his thing because of his patreon. Same goes for Chip Cheezum and Ironicus, probably the best LPer tag team out there. It's also very useful for artists, it seems.
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Jul 2, 2015 17:07
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Echophonic posted:On the bright side, he never produces anything, so nobody will ever be billed. I think the way Patreon works is that you can designate any post as a "paid" post that (in theory) contains whatever it is you're producing. For instance, Vincent Baker's Patreon isn't about producing product, it's about setting up offsite forum discussions about things like AW2e. So Nystul could release a "paid" post that just says "hey, what's up" and he'd collect his pledges.
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Jul 2, 2015 17:08
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Eh, never mind
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Jul 2, 2015 17:11
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