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Ashcans posted:I am a terrible person for hoping that the family photo captured them all at the moment of collapse.
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Jul 6, 2015 13:12
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30 Goddamned Dicks posted:Trust me, you're not the only one. I found an article on the collapse- it says that the deck was up to code when it was built 30 years ago but the nails used to hold the deck together had corroded due to exposure to salt water spray from the ocean. I'd link the article but I'm phone posting. My family's going to be renting a New Jersey beach house in August, and you can bet your rear end I'll be examining that deck carefully. Is there any way to tell the difference between surface rust and actual systemic corrosion in nails/screws? Because steel rusts basically instantly in my experience unless it's coated.
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Jul 6, 2015 15:28
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30 Goddamned Dicks posted:Trust me, you're not the only one. I found an article on the collapse- it says that the deck was up to code when it was built 30 years ago but the nails used to hold the deck together had corroded due to exposure to salt water spray from the ocean. I'd link the article but I'm phone posting. I liked the part where it said they don't require inspections on rental homes. Is that as wtf as it sounds or is there some reasoning behind that that makes sense?
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Jul 6, 2015 16:31
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NancyPants posted:I liked the part where it said they don't require inspections on rental homes. Is that as wtf as it sounds or is there some reasoning behind that that makes sense? Landlords have a lot of lobby power, specially in touristy areas. "The city is trying to KILL our tourism industry with these invasive and pointless inspections! The market will punish poorly maintained buildings, no rational actor would allow dangerous structures!"
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Jul 6, 2015 17:13
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Is there any way to tell the difference between surface rust and actual systemic corrosion in nails/screws? Put your family on it and see if it collapses, apparently.
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Jul 6, 2015 17:47
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NancyPants posted:I liked the part where it said they don't require inspections on rental homes. Is that as wtf as it sounds or is there some reasoning behind that that makes sense? I'm pretty sure that isn't saying they don't require the typical basic building permits & inspections if you say it's rental, but rather that they don't require regular inspections of rental properties (or at least that kind of rental property). Common reasons for not requiring regular inspections of rental properties include cost ineffectiveness and the Fourth Amendment.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:24
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Zhentar posted:Common reasons for not requiring regular inspections of rental properties include cost ineffectiveness and the Fourth Amendment. How does the 4th play into this? Taxi cab drivers have to get their cars certified on a regular basis, and I'm pretty sure cars are covered under the 4th Amendment. I mean, sure the government shouldn't be allowed to just drop in on your rental unannounced and perform a surprise inspection, but they wouldn't want to do that anyway. This isn't like kitchen safety where you can spend a few hours cleaning up and pass inspection even if your food is normally 50% cockroach, so there's no point in surprise checks. Cost effectiveness is certainly a potential issue though. A $500 inspection (about what a new-house inspection costs, IIRC) every, say, 5 years doesn't seem like it'd be that onerous...but would a $500 inspection have noticed that the deck fasteners were nearly rusted through?
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Jul 6, 2015 18:42
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:How does the 4th play into this? Taxi cab drivers have to get their cars certified on a regular basis, and I'm pretty sure cars are covered under the 4th Amendment. I mean, sure the government shouldn't be allowed to just drop in on your rental unannounced and perform a surprise inspection, but they wouldn't want to do that anyway. This isn't like kitchen safety where you can spend a few hours cleaning up and pass inspection even if your food is normally 50% cockroach, so there's no point in surprise checks.
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Jul 6, 2015 19:29
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30 Goddamned Dicks posted:Deck collapse on rental house in Emerald Isle, NC during a family photo Thank god my deck is 16 inches from the ground.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:00
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Zhentar posted:and the Fourth Amendment. United States Constitution (but from an alternate universe?) posted:The right of the Admit it SA Forums Poster Zhentar, you're an imposter not of this reality, part of the vanguard of an invasion force!! Content: Last summer my wife and I moved into a rental duplex owned by a local couple who seemed unable to find a buyer in time to close on their next house, so we've been renting from amateurs who are essentially pretty nice folks. When the old fridge went out they had it replaced within a couple of days, they're not like nosy or anything (helps that they live half an hour away and have two kids under four). Buuuut, turns out that about six years ago they noticed that during particularly heavy rain (we're in Oregon) the ceiling in the garage over the water heater would drip a little bit. Of course it went away during the dry season so they just concluded that it got better by itself  , so they forgot about it.This past winter, of course, that corner section of drywall actually rained, developed water stains rapidly enough that I'm pretty sure they just painted over the existing ones, and started to seriously bow out. They sent out a contractor who, it turns out, went up and determined that the damage was sever enough that the garage roof needs to be replaced. Of course, instead of telling the owners that they just never contacted them again and didn't return any calls, so a month later another contractor came out, determined the same thing, and then came out again to work up quotes for replacing the garage roof and the entire roof. Bet they're glad that their house was able to just heal itself! loving amazing, and not getting it fixed initially saved them so much cash!!! e: VVVV Okay I was pretty obtuse with that but you appear to be unaware that the US Constitution protects citizens only from the US Government and its agents. What protects renters from random landlord/inspector visits are various privacy laws. LonsomeSon fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 20:14
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It's the renter's Fourth Amendment right, not the owners. Not so much of a problem for a short term vacation rental, but a regularly scheduled inspection of an inhabited unit requires searching the tenant's residence without probable cause. I'm no lawyer, but I don't think advanced notice affects that, although the tenant may voluntarily consent to an inspection. And yeah, it's the "noticing problems" part that's the issue. A low cost inspection (like the $35 Nitrox mentions) is only going to cover bare minimum checks for functional plumbing, electricity, and heating. A more in-depth $500 inspection is still going to miss most serious problems that are hidden.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:29
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The house I'm renting is gettin inspected by the city tomorrow, I just had to send an email saying I consented to the inspection. But if I didn't consent the letter said they'd get a court order so v v
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Jul 6, 2015 20:34
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Zhentar posted:It's the renter's Fourth Amendment right, not the owners. Not so much of a problem for a short term vacation rental, but a regularly scheduled inspection of an inhabited unit requires searching the tenant's residence without probable cause. I'm no lawyer, but I don't think advanced notice affects that, although the tenant may voluntarily consent to an inspection. Oh yeah, that makes sense. I was thinking of stuff like beach houses where the structure isn't even going to be occupied for over half the year. Heck, even student housing has times of year when it's likely to be unoccupied. Permanently-occupied rental units are trickier though.
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Jul 6, 2015 20:41
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FISHMANPET posted:But if I didn't consent the letter said they'd get a court order so v If that's what they said or implied, then your consent is not considered voluntary and thus invalid (unless they have probable cause to search your specific unit).
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Jul 6, 2015 21:05
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Whatever they're doing, I'm assuming the rental unit inspection program in a city of nearly half a million people is completely legal.
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Jul 6, 2015 21:07
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Even renters have to allow inspections. Where I live the landlord is legally allowed to inspect I think 4 times a year or something crazy. Only needs 24h notice. He slips the notices under the door at like 10am after everyone's gone to work and then starts inspecting 10am the next day. It's a bit invasive but he told me my model train is "really cool" and he's found tons of super dangerous poo poo in the past. Like some guy who had a motorcycle repair shop and was between spaces so stored a ton of fuel and chemicals just in barrels in his apartment. Or the lady who tried to install a dimmer switch her self by just connecting it to the 1951 electrical system where it proceeded to start singeing the wall.
Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 21:13
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FISHMANPET posted:Whatever they're doing, I'm assuming the rental unit inspection program in a city of nearly half a million people is completely legal. The city may well be above-board, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your landlord is following the rules. People can say "you have to do X or else" all they like, that doesn't make it legal.
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Jul 6, 2015 21:22
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This is an inspection done by the city, not the landlord. The request for consent came in a city envelope on city letterhead etc etc. Also it's rented through a large agency which I would hope cuts down on the random "I don't know what I'm doing" bullshit you might usually get from a landlord of a single family home.
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Jul 6, 2015 21:41
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Baronjutter posted:Even renters have to allow inspections. Where I live the landlord is legally allowed to inspect I think 4 times a year or something crazy. Only needs 24h notice.  As far as I know in Germany my landlord has no right at all for "inspections". He has a key, but can only use it for emergencies (like water running out of my apartment) or while having the police with him. Otherwise he has to arrange an appointment with me and have a good reason. What the gently caress would he even "inspect"? If I do my dishes? Keep my desk tidy? There's a dude coming once a year to read my meters (water and heating) and if I pay my rent thats the only person I have to give access to my apartment.
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Jul 6, 2015 21:59
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RabbitWizard posted:Where do you live? lol germany, where renters actually have rights and social respect. I live in what is considered a very renter-friendly city in Canada and we're basically Germany compared to the rights and social standing of renting in a lot of the US. North America is all about property rights, owner's property rights. As a renter you are a guest, although more like a parasite, that the noble owner has to put up with. Many rental owners will simply barge into apartments to snoop around and they feel 100% entitled to do so because "it's my property I'll inspect it any time I want!". The moment renters get even basic rights to privacy and simple legal protections to not be thrown out on the street the moment a landlord decides they don't want you anymore the entire rentier class gets all up in arms saying it's an attack on property rights and will kill the construction/development industry. In North America the idea is that everyone should own a detached house, if you are renting it's because you are too poor to own a house, and all poor people are poor because they are bad people (Calvinism, prosperity gospel) and bad people don't deserve rights. If you want privacy and knowing you'll have a place to sleep next month maybe pull up your bootstraps and buy a house.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:06
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RabbitWizard posted:What the gently caress would he even "inspect"? If I do my dishes? Keep my desk tidy? There's a dude coming once a year to read my meters (water and heating) and if I pay my rent thats the only person I have to give access to my apartment. More like are you cooking meth and making GBS threads on the walls?
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Jul 6, 2015 22:06
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RabbitWizard posted:As far as I know in Germany my landlord has no right at all for "inspections". He has a key, but can only use it for emergencies (like water running out of my apartment) or while having the police with him. Otherwise he has to arrange an appointment with me and have a good reason. e: if you are making GBS threads on the walls you only have to repaint them in a neutral colour once you move out.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:18
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It's reasonable that a landlord should have some way to gain access in order to perform routine scheduled maintenance tasks. Properties should be maintained and renters can't be relied upon to perform that maintenance. That said, the US laws are usually too permissive, and many landlords are either ignorant of the laws or casually flout them. 24 hours' notice isn't enough for non-emergency stuff. I'd say 30 days' notice would be reasonable, and the landlord should also have to accommodate the renter's schedule - like, the renter should be able to give the landlord a reasonable 4-hour window between, say, 9 AM and 9 PM, on a weekday or weekend, within a requested 30-day window. Something like that.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:36
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Baronjutter: I'm sorry. Sounds like you live in Owners heaven. Really didn't expect Canada, though.My Lovely Horse posted:It's pretty crazy that he has a key to begin with. He has to hand over all existing keys unless you agreed he can keep one. I guess it's handy for when there is an emergency. My Lovely Horse posted:e: if you are making GBS threads on the walls you only have to repaint them in a neutral colour once you move out. That's why Baronjutters situation confused the poo poo out of me. Just thinking about having inspections when I rent a property as an adult is confusing. I mean, I'm not renting my moms basement or a dorm room. Leperflesh posted:It's reasonable that a landlord should have some way to gain access in order to perform routine scheduled maintenance tasks. Properties should be maintained and renters can't be relied upon to perform that maintenance.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:47
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RabbitWizard posted:That's why Baronjutters situation confused the poo poo out of me. Just thinking about having inspections when I rent a property as an adult is confusing. I mean, I'm not renting my moms basement or a dorm room. That's the social/cultural aspect. In most of north america, if you rent you're assumed to be a student or a irresponsible poor. Renters are one step up from homeless people, so you have to check up on them all the time to make sure they aren't harming your investment property.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:50
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Baronjutter posted:That's the social/cultural aspect. In most of north america, if you rent you're assumed to be a student or a irresponsible poor. Renters are one step up from homeless people, so you have to check up on them all the time to make sure they aren't harming your investment property. It also depends on where you rent. I used to live in a relatively upscale loft where most of my neighbors were surgeons. My landlord only ever came inside my apartment twice in 2 years - once to replace the air filter on the furnace and once to show the apartment when I was moving out. Both times came with several days' notice.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:02
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Baronjutter posted:That's the social/cultural aspect. In most of north america, if you rent you're assumed to be a student or a irresponsible poor. Renters are one step up from homeless people, so you have to check up on them all the time to make sure they aren't harming your investment property. Just to drive it home this is what the Texas Association of Realtors standard form lease reads: 14. ACCESS BY LANDLORD: A. Advertising: Landlord may prominently display a "For Sale" or "For Lease" or similarly worded sign on the Property during the term of this lease or any renewal period. Landlord or Landlord's contractor may take interior or exterior photographs or images of the Property and use the photographs or images in any advertisements to lease or sell the Property. B. Access: Before accessing the Property, Landlord or anyone authorized by Landlord will attempt to first contact Tenant, but may enter the Property at reasonable times without notice to make repairs or to show the Property to prospective tenants or buyers, inspectors, fire marshals, lenders, appraisers, or insurance agents. Additionally, Landlord or anyone authorized by Landlord may peacefully enter the Property at reasonable times without first attempting to contact Tenant and without notice to: (1) surveyor review the Property's condition and take photographs to document the condition; (2) make emergency repairs; (3) exercise a contractual or statutory lien; (4) leave written notices; or (5) seize nonexempt property if Tenant is in default. C. Trip Charges: If Landlord or Landlord's agents have made prior arrangements with Tenant to access the Property and are denied or are not able to access the Property because of Tenant's failure to make the Property accessible (including, but not limited to, any occupant, guest or invitee of Tenant, pet, or security device prohibiting access to any area of the Property), Landlord may charge Tenant a trip charge of $45 Yes that's right they will try and make contact, but don't have to. There is also zero requirement in Texas law for any notice whatsoever. They also reserve right to bring any buddies along with them and take photos.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:35
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FISHMANPET posted:Whatever they're doing, I'm assuming the rental unit inspection program in a city of nearly half a million people is completely legal. A city (of any size) doing something that's not completely legal wouldn't be particularly unusual. Baronjutter posted:Even renters have to allow inspections. Where I live the landlord is legally allowed to inspect I think 4 times a year or something crazy. The fourth amendment only applies to the government, not landlords, so yeah.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:54
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Leperflesh posted:It's reasonable that a landlord should have some way to gain access in order to perform routine scheduled maintenance tasks. Properties should be maintained and renters can't be relied upon to perform that maintenance. Germany by all accounts has a COMPLETELY different culture about housing to basically anywhere else I've come across. It's not remotely uncommon, as I understand it, for people to rent the same place their entire lives, and for rental contracts to function more or less like buying contracts do in the UK or the USA etc - you move in, can amend the interior basically however you want in some cases up to and including moving non-structural walls, conduct all the routine maintenance yourselves, live there for a lifetime, and then the next people move in and do the same, expecting to alter the house to fit their specifications when they do, and it's more or less expected as I understand it that the landlord occupies a role much more like mortgage providers do in UK/USA etc, i.e. more or less entirely hands off unless the bills aren't paid or something MAJOR goes wrong. Buying is a lot less common. This article seems to have a decent rundown to my inexpert eye. http://qz.com/167887/germany-has-one-of-the-worlds-lowest-homeownership-rates/
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Jul 7, 2015 00:12
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So a lease with a 24hr notice of inspection clause isn't legal? Or rather that clause is illegal? Can we get some better IANAL info on this? E: wow that Texas law is fantastic. I'm pretty positive Oregon allows 24hr notice of entry for any reason, and all leases I've had also have that. German tenant law sounds nice. SiGmA_X fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 00:13
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SiGmA_X posted:So a lease with a 24hr notice of inspection clause isn't legal? Or rather that clause is illegal? Can we get some better IANAL info on this? Depends on where you are I would guess. I'm pretty sure it's legal in the UK, on shorter term leases at least.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:25
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Tenants rights vary so much from state to state, with some states being quite good actually, trying to make blanket statements like renters are treated like the scum of the earth is completely useless.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:34
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SiGmA_X posted:So a lease with a 24hr notice of inspection clause isn't legal? Or rather that clause is illegal? Can we get some better IANAL info on this? That texas stuff isn't law; it's what the realtors think is a good idea for a landlord to put in their lease agreement. RabbitWizard posted:Uhh......what maintenance tasks? I don't have the boiler for the house in my apartment or the main breakers......but yeah, if he does want to do some "maintenance" he has to make an appointment and I'm glad for that after reading all that stuff here. Well obviously it depends on what sort of equipment is in your place and how old it is. Furnaces should have the filter changed quarterly, and a wise owner of an older furnace should inspect it for problems annually. The ducting for a clothes dryer should be cleaned out periodically to reduce the risk of fire. A central fire alarm system should be tested periodically. It's a good idea to periodically inspect plumbing, wiring, etc. for deterioration or needed repairs. If you always neglect everything and wait for it to actually break, the repairs tend to be more expensive than if you are proactive and inspect regularly and fix things before they're broken. A landlord owns all that stuff in your place and is on the hook for repairing it, so it's reasonable that they should be able to gain access. What they should not be able to do is barge in without permission or with super-short permission (like, what if you're away for a few days?) unless there's a legitimate emergency, or you've failed to respond to repeated requests for access for an extended period of time.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:35
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SiGmA_X posted:I'm pretty positive Oregon allows 24hr notice of entry for any reason, and all leases I've had also have that. More or less.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:49
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thespaceinvader posted:Germany by all accounts has a COMPLETELY different culture about housing to basically anywhere else I've come across. It's not remotely uncommon, as I understand it, for people to rent the same place their entire lives, and for rental contracts to function more or less like buying contracts do in the UK or the USA etc - you move in, can amend the interior basically however you want in some cases up to and including moving non-structural walls, conduct all the routine maintenance yourselves, live there for a lifetime, and then the next people move in and do the same, expecting to alter the house to fit their specifications when they do, and it's more or less expected as I understand it that the landlord occupies a role much more like mortgage providers do in UK/USA etc, i.e. more or less entirely hands off unless the bills aren't paid or something MAJOR goes wrong. Buying is a lot less common. Relatedly, my understanding is that "unfurnished" US apartments are in a state that many in other countries would be considered to be almost fully furnished. In many places an "unfurnished" apartment means bare walls and concrete floors because they expect the tenants to be there a long time and take care of all that stuff themselves.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:41
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Leperflesh posted:It's reasonable that a landlord should have some way to gain access in order to perform routine scheduled maintenance tasks. Properties should be maintained and renters can't be relied upon to perform that maintenance. You can get this put into the lease if it is an issue. Landlords maintaining units depends on them inspecting them. You can expect a tenant to report provlems premptively.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:06
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Powerlurker posted:Relatedly, my understanding is that "unfurnished" US apartments are in a state that many in other countries would be considered to be almost fully furnished. In many places an "unfurnished" apartment means bare walls and concrete floors because they expect the tenants to be there a long time and take care of all that stuff themselves. This is largely true -- Europe generally has very low labor mobility. In the US, it is expected that people move to where the work is, and it's relatively easy to do so; after all, the fifty states have a common currency, common language(s), a mostly common legal system, and stable interstate banking. The average American moves 11 times in their lifetime, with three of those moves being across a state line.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:08
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lampey posted:You can get this put into the lease if it is an issue. Landlords maintaining units depends on them inspecting them. You can expect a tenant to report provlems premptively. You'd think that, but I had someone renting a room in my house and I only found out that the bathroom toilet wasn't drawing water to flush with when I tried using it myself. They'd just been manually transplanting water from the sink to the tank every time they wanted to flush, and didn't think to mention it to me. 
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Jul 7, 2015 03:29
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Leperflesh posted:It's a good idea to periodically inspect plumbing, wiring, etc. for deterioration or needed repairs.  Don't know if you care to much about I'm 30 and moved 10 times in my life already (or only, if I'm deriving my data from that). Nearly all of the places to rent come with flooring and Wallpaper already. There are exceptions if you are in for the long run and/or that stuff needs to be renewed anyway and the owner is giving you a say in it. Otherwise you already have white wallpapers (that you can smear poo poo on, sure, whatever you like) but you have to restore them to a neutral (which means white) color when moving out if you lived there for over 2 years (I think) (or smeared poo poo on them). Flooring is "you break it you buy it" but only the "terminal value" (don't know if thats the right word). So if you gently caress up the carpet, you don't have to pay the new one 100%, because you pay for using it with the rent, so you only pay the remaining value of it. Kitchens depend. Most of the time there's a kitchen in there (like 90%) which you will "buy" from the person renting the place before you and "sell" to the person renting after you. You can't really use a kitchen that was fitted into a specific space anywhere else easily anyway. Or it looks like poo poo. Like mine. But whatever, 50€ for an oven, a sink and some cupboards. If you can't agree with the previous renter or the kitchen is hosed up, you get an empty space with some outlets and water pipes. Built your own and haggle with the next person renting the place. If it's the owners kitchen, don't rent the place, because he will have complaints when you are moving out. Breaking non load bearing drywall (jk, we use stones for most houses, even for non load bearing walls) I could see as a problem. Depends totally on the owner, but expect a Nooooooooooooo! Keys, like already said, is also agreed upon. If you want, you can get all sets of keys for the apartment or even change the locks, whatever. You just have to give the current keys to the owner if you move out. Otherwise, it's your property. For the time you pay rent. And: An owner can't just quit the contract with a "meh" as justification, he has to have a legal reason, like personal requirements (his grandma gets sick and needs to live there so he can take care of her) or neighbors complaining about meth-explosions. When I rent something, it's mine for the time. And I can do what I want with it within the bounds of the law. If I don't give it back the way it was, I have to pay for getting it back to the way it was. Never thought that this concept was different in other countries.
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Jul 7, 2015 07:45
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RabbitWizard posted:Wiring? Can't see how you would inspect my sockets or the wiring in the wall We have... ways.  Seriously, though, there's tools for that.
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Jul 7, 2015 07:55
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