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 http://www.litko.net/categories/Shop-By-Compatible-Game-System/Kings-of-War/ Litko sells KoW trays.
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Jul 6, 2015 22:40
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muggins posted:
what the gently caress is happening? has everything always been this cheap?
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Jul 6, 2015 22:42
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Business Gorillas posted:what the gently caress is happening? has everything always been this cheap? The price goes up a bit when you increase the size, but otherwise yes. This is what the world is like beyond the walls of GWville 
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Jul 6, 2015 22:44
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NTRabbit posted:And I was only planning to add an extra 30      If nothing else, I might try modding Bolters onto them. They seem like they'd fit well, and lord knows I've got an excess of bolters.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:01
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Yeah the forgefathers look fantastic. I love how they look very DORF but also very sci-fi in a assembly line bolt together sort of way. Which is also very dorf to me.
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Jul 6, 2015 23:15
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The Forge Fathers are indeed awesome, I've already got 36 Forge Guard, 4 Iron Ancestors in normal/urban pattern, and a bunch of different patterns of Jotuns  200 Steel Warriors/Stormrage Veterans/Drakkarim is a bit much for me at the moment, but you're right at $1 a mini for a horde army it's tough to pass up
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Jul 6, 2015 23:19
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Captain Invictus posted:
Enjoy taking them off again next year, when Warpath 2 is out and 40k gets Sigmared
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Jul 6, 2015 23:41
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I've been starting up painting my first round of Forge Fathers. I only have the DZ Starter, Brokkr Booster, and Urban Iron Ancestor thus far, but I'll be getting at least 30 Steel Warriors in the KS. God, I love them so much. This mini is not nearly done, of course. Was my colorscheme test! The grey is much close to black in person (everything's a bit darker, really), and will be moreso after a nice wash. I think the colors work out REALLY well.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:16
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Yup =) Red/black/gold is a good combo, it's why GW Khorne/WFB chaos generally colour schemes tend to work so well.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:24
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I've managed to stay more or less clean of miniature games for 20 years, but holy poo poo I want those space dwarfs.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:29
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Throbbing blob posted:Are there any rules for the goblins that work like GW fanatics? One of my friends are really in love with the concept of goblin fanatics, so it'd probably be easier to move him over if he could keeps as many wacky/zany/lolrandom characteristics from his GW o&G models as he can. Not as individuals and not really wacky, but put a couple on a monster base and you could use the mincer rules (I personally will use my snottling pump wagons as mincers). Fanatics could also work as mawbeast packs. There's not as muck wackyness for the sake of wierd rules as I'd like. For instance I will forever morn the death of the foot of gork template (which seals the death of all warhammer forever), and giants sticking enemies in their pants. But this game still has lots of potential for creatively proxying models and actively encourages it. I want to ally with kingdoms of men, putting fanatics on troop bases to use as berserkers (they don't waver), and use the warbeast rules for an araknarok. There are even rules for putting a war-machine on top. Finally a game where the web catapult is useful. I think these are the last beta army rules https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nhZLDFOHUXC2MCA6NwYQWr0HF2mSyvEWIlNH4oCtBeQ/htmlview
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Jul 7, 2015 00:31
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So, how does the game play out with there essentially being no 'engaged' status for melee units? It seems like it could diminish the value of durable blocking units because you can't actively tie down a more valuable enemy, only physically block them by occupying the space they would need to move through to reach the units you are protecting. Flanking seems to be dangerous enough that they couldn't outright ignore a hostile unit and walk away from them, but it seems a little odd that, for example, you can't get in melee to protect yourself from the enemy shooting phase and a unit can theoretically decide to just walk away from a fight. I'm assuming in practice this wouldn't always work that well since you'd either back up a few inches or expose a vulnerable facing to the enemy and get owned the next turn, but I can't help wondering if there is potential for abuse. The game also seems like it can get very swingy based on individual dice rolls. One bad morale roll can completely remove a unit from the field, and artillery war machines have devastatingly powerful attacks with low hit chances such that they seem pretty much purpose-built to go on wild streaks where they either do nothing the entire battle or roll three hits in a row and obliterate the enemy's best regiment before they get to do anything. Presumably in a full-sized battle everyone has enough models on the table to balance these things out through the laws of large numbers, but I'm still not sure how I feel about having that much of the outcome of the game come with that little predictability.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:02
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Voyager I posted:So, how does the game play out with there essentially being no 'engaged' status for melee units? It seems like it could diminish the value of durable blocking units because you can't actively tie down a more valuable enemy, only physically block them by occupying the space they would need to move through to reach the units you are protecting. Flanking seems to be dangerous enough that they couldn't outright ignore a hostile unit and walk away from them, but it seems a little odd that, for example, you can't get in melee to protect yourself from the enemy shooting phase and a unit can theoretically decide to just walk away from a fight. I'm assuming in practice this wouldn't always work that well since you'd either back up a few inches or expose a vulnerable facing to the enemy and get owned the next turn, but I can't help wondering if there is potential for abuse. I think in the case of melee, you either go all-in or don't bother. As in, go in to break them in a single round via flank/rear charges or multiple charges, otherwise you're not going to do much because as you said, you can't simply tie them up for several turns. Morale can be alleviated a little bit via nearby Inspiring units (I think?), and in the case of war machines they've been toned down in 2nd edition so they're not quite the be-all end-all they once were. With the advent of more abstract LOS, it ought to be possible to block LOS to elite unites via cheaper units and terrain. I'm talking purely speculative here because I've yet to get a game in, mind, so take what I say with a grain or salt.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:08
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Given that you can only pivot 90 degrees, getting away from a melee isn't very viable. Exposing a flank is pretty suicidal. As for backing up, it's half your movement, so the enemy should easily be able to charge again. It pretty effectively keeps something stuck unless they have another unit to move in and block the blockers. Remember you can move through friendlies. And yeah, it's not so easy to be immune to shooting for a turn as it is in Warhammer, but unless the units doing the shooting are at your own flank, you should be able to get cover from the unit you're blocking. What it is easier to do is use a zippy hero to prevent the opponent from shooting with something - charge them and they can't shoot next turn. If you can get em in the flank, they can't even charge you back to retaliate the next turn.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:20
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thespaceinvader posted:This is the place for that AFAIK. thanks! So, I'm checking out Deadzone and it looks like the starter kit (plague vs enforcers with a board and some buildings) is pretty self contained. If I bought it would it be fun on its own to play? I don't have a regular wargames crew but I have a lot of friends who boardgame and it looks like it could really appeal to that crowd.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:25
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Slimnoid posted:I think in the case of melee, you either go all-in or don't bother. As in, go in to break them in a single round via flank/rear charges or multiple charges, otherwise you're not going to do much because as you said, you can't simply tie them up for several turns. My issue wasn't with the overall power of artillery so much as how unpredictable it was. It would be like if a regular unit rolled a single dice for all their attacks and then either hit or missed entirely depending on the result. In theory they'd still be balanced as they are now, but in practice combats would end up being these janky all-or-nothing affairs where units either did nothing or obliterated each other in single turns and the deciding factor would largely be who managed to roll a hit first such that the outcome would hinge primarily on a few individual dice rolls. That seems like how artillery works now, and morale is kind of a similar thing where rolling an unlucky 11 or something can immediately and irrevocably remove a unit from the battlefield. Elfface posted:Given that you can only pivot 90 degrees, getting away from a melee isn't very viable. Exposing a flank is pretty suicidal. As for backing up, it's half your movement, so the enemy should easily be able to charge again. It pretty effectively keeps something stuck unless they have another unit to move in and block the blockers. Remember you can move through friendlies. Okay, that sounds pretty reasonable. The idea of melee being a series of alternating charges is weird to me but it sounds like it plays out alright.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:39
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I just today realized KoW's allies rules mean I'll be able to field a Storm of Chaos Cult of Slaanesh TK list. 
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Jul 7, 2015 01:40
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Elfface posted:What it is easier to do is use a zippy hero to prevent the opponent from shooting with something - charge them and they can't shoot next turn. If you can get em in the flank, they can't even charge you back to retaliate the next turn. Can you explain why that is? Wouldn't the unit be able to charge and pivot as part of the charge? Maybe I need to re-read the movement rules.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:43
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You can only charge something in your front arc... Unless I'm remembering wrong.
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Jul 7, 2015 01:45
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Elfface posted:You can only charge something in your front arc... Unless I'm remembering wrong. You are correct, but in 2nd Ed, they're adding a counter-charge action that allows units to initiate a charge against a unit that charged them the previous turn without most of the usual restrictions, including line of sight, so it can be used to make retaliatory charges into its flank and rear arcs. Apparently units must also suffer a point of damage from melee in order to be considered Disordered, so a hero merely making contact with the enemy won't be enough to stop them from shooting on their next turn.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:04
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Random modeling question. Anyone have a good source for 28mm dinosaurs? I'm half considering using an Allosaurus or a pack of raptors (feathered or scaled irrelevant) if I ever add a large monster to my ogres.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:32
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Omar al-Bishie posted:thanks! It absolutely would! You may want a bit more terrain than it comes with, as Deadzone gets really neat as you build UP, being a fully 3D game, but it's definitely enough to play a complete game, and thanks to the objective rules and coming with more minis than you'll use at a given time, it won't even get stale too fast! (Boy, that sure was a sentence)
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Jul 7, 2015 02:41
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Dulkor posted:Random modeling question. Anyone have a good source for 28mm dinosaurs? I'm half considering using an Allosaurus or a pack of raptors (feathered or scaled irrelevant) if I ever add a large monster to my ogres. I've been eyeing these, as the skeleton ones would be metal for my undead and/or scaly armies. http://www.prehistoricstore.com/category.php?cat=Models There's also: http://www.achesoncreations.com/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=50 And also Shcleich seems to make very impressive versions at reasonable prices: http://www.dinosaurcorporation.com/schleichtoys.html I just wish they were feathered.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:42
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I'll definitely be using some dinosaurs when I do KoW stuff, too. gently caress yes, dinosaurs and good wargames. Two tastes that go perfectly together!
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Jul 7, 2015 02:44
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I was originally just going to get the rulebook entry level pledge. 10 minutes later I'm charging my card for the lockdown, plus 20 additional Forge Fathers and a second deluxe gaming mat. $255.00 from, what was it, $35.00 or so? I should've learned my lesson from the KoW2 KS. Time to put in some overtime! Bonus: I ship to my parents house and I love putting "Knock really loud and keep ringing the doorbell until someone answers" on the shipping notes. My dad hates kickstarter boxes.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:45
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Esser-Z posted:It absolutely would! You may want a bit more terrain than it comes with, as Deadzone gets really neat as you build UP, being a fully 3D game, but it's definitely enough to play a complete game, and thanks to the objective rules and coming with more minis than you'll use at a given time, it won't even get stale too fast! That's rad! What would be the benefits of buying more Plastic Mans and stuff?
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Jul 7, 2015 02:50
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Omar al-Bishie posted:That's rad! What would be the benefits of buying more Plastic Mans and stuff? Way more options for your strike team, which can significantly change how you play. You'll never use all of them at once, but having different minis allows for varied strategies in the game! Adds new elements like big stompy mechs and stuff! Plus more factions, which play differently from the ones in core! Plus they look cool. How can you turn down those space dwarves?! The terrain is modular, but it tends to be stabler if you glue sub buildings then set those up on the mat, so getting more terrain lets you vary your battlefield--and make it taller. Have we mentioned there are rules for railing kills?--for further differences game to game! Also the Mercenary Bjarn Starnafall can do a straight up Dawn of War style orbital drop, including throwing other models away from the impact site--potentially off of buildings to their death! Esser-Z fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 02:52
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Voyager I posted:Okay, that sounds pretty reasonable. The idea of melee being a series of alternating charges is weird to me but it sounds like it plays out alright. Yeah, the idea of it is basically instead of just setting a busload of skavenslaves to a unit you want to do nothing for the rest of the game, you kind of have to block it and they get a chance to change things a little bit. It makes shooting units more useful in a tactical sense not to have ongoing battles between turns, as they generally kind of sucked in WHFB. Also, honestly, it's not really possible to make death stars in KoW the way you can in WHFB- unit strengths are a lot more bounded. There are better and worse units, but there's nothing like some of the combinations in WHFB.
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Jul 7, 2015 03:39
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Omar al-Bishie posted:thanks! I have been reading my store's deadzone box set and I am getting super pumped. It has... Good shooting rules, sort of Necromundish. Actual Commander abilities, the CO can forfit turns to do cool commander powers. Neat weapon and ammo options which includes... Huge flexibility, the box set comes with what looks like 10+ unit rules per side, more then you could use in 5 games if you mixed it up every time, and the units have pretty different abilities. The Enforcers in the basic box get a ton of options. The Mutants have a suprising amount of variety as well, like way more then I first thought, it is much more then just a pure melee force. An interesting card system of basic bonuses that lets you focus resources where needed. An easy to use movement system with interesting terrain rules and the awesome rules that let you railings-death people by shooting them off with a shotgun. I really want to learn more about it in fact, especially how the other factions work. As far as I can tell you have to buy the other books to find out more. Can anyone point me to more Deadzone info?
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Jul 7, 2015 03:58
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Is it generally expected to have Standard Bearers spread throughout your army to give Inspire to everybody and minimize the chances for fluke rolls to send Regiments off the field? 50 pts for a 12" diameter reroll bubble seems like a pretty good deal, and hopefully they aren't too easy to snipe off the field.
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Jul 7, 2015 04:01
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Doctor Borris posted:I have been reading my store's deadzone box set and I am getting super pumped. It has... Word of warning, Mantic is about six months away from releasing a major revamp of the rules to try and add some depth to the system. Contagion is the only expansion really worth picking up since the other two books will either have their information added to the new book or no longer be relevant.
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Jul 7, 2015 05:46
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Doctor Borris posted:I have been reading my store's deadzone box set and I am getting super pumped. It has... Once Infestation hits and we've got the updated rules in hand we should start up a Deadzone thread Each faction not only plays unique based off the units you can choose, but the mission cards each one has help set the reasons you're actually fighting and can really mix up things. Marauders Pros The orky mercenaries are one of the most well rounded factions out there unit wise. Basic armor, decent weapons with a mix of ranged and melee options as well as cheap dogs. Snipers, artillery, melee suits, great commanders and more let you dabble into a lot of different tactics. Exploding melee dogs with chainsaw mouths. I don't think more needs to be said. Cons Your troop choices aren't that strong and limited to a dog or basic commando. Any specialist types outside of good commanders, you have limited numbers you're allowed to take so you'll need to rely on using your rank and file to their fullest. Missions All your missions except one involve you killing enemy troops for their point values (1-6/7-10/11+) so play more lethal kill focused. Capture and control of areas is also very common so durability and numbers work in their favor. Their odd duck mission involves infiltrating all your units off the opponents side of the board while having more numbers, creating a run and gun type of gameplay. Plague Pros The most melee focused faction in Deadzone, and sporting some deadly beasts like the Stage 1A and plague terraton. Plague swarms allow for speedy armor munchers and 2A's will win a lot of combats thanks to tough and brawler. Many cheap options allow you to have a large and varied force if you want. Cons While you still have shooting options, they tend to have very low shooting stats. There's a randomness factor to the faction with mutations that may or may not work to your benefit. Low armor across the board, though a few get tough to back it up. Missions You will be doing pretty much any and up to 3 of the following for your missions: Killing based on your opponents point values, killing based on your opponents unit type, or infiltrating your units. It's a pretty basic rush forward most games, but they can do it well. Enforcers Pros Armored superhumans given top of the line weapons and even more top of the line training. Most units come with a jetpack allowing for extra mobility. There are a ton of toys this faction can play around with and your basic troops are one of the best. While more ranged based, there are close ranged options (shield/shotgun) and melee troops. There's even expensive peacekeeper armored units if you want to pretend you're playing Space Hulk. High armor and survive stat really helps your guys stick around. Cons Slightly expensive faction points wise, though you do tend to get what you pay for. Almost too many options and high costs can be a bit daunting to new players when setting up a 70 point game. Melee units have fairly low hand to hand numbers so don't expect them to take down combat specialists. Missions They're spread fairly evenly across the board between: infiltration, kills for points, kills for type, and capture/control. Make sure your team is ready to handle different types of missions, but a few come with the 'survive' type added in, which tends to work in your favor. Rebels Pros This faction has a ton of dirt cheap units and a lot of specialty guys so you can really build a swarm force. There are some really fun units with unique weapons or abilities that can be great to try out, though some are less useful than others. The Rebel Commander is a great sniper with an energy shield, but mostly well rounded for her 16 points. You can really build a mean suppression force with the right units and flying spotters giving them bonuses. Terratons are one of the big DZ melee powerhouses, though at a hefty point cost. Cons Your guys will die. A lot. There isn't a lot of armor across the faction and most survive stats are 5+. But that's why they're cheap! Blast weapons can be fun, but don't rely on them. Pretty bad command points which makes sense for a rag tag group. New players are attracted to Rebels a fair bit it seems, but one of the harder groups to play. Missions Expect to be scouring the field for items most missions, if even as a minor objective. Decent bit of type killing (especially leaders), with some point missions. Surprisingly only one infiltrate mission. Try to hit hard with your glass cannon force and consider saving a few points to have a zee on item collecting. Asterians Pros A very unique faction for how it plays. There are a lot of units with knockback or force weapons, allowing you to reposition or alter enemy positions. Their leader unit has the best command points in the game, allowing you maximum fuckery with reactivating your own guys or shutting down an enemy big gun before he even goes. Most things come with a toxic smokescreen allowing you to obscure line of sight, and injure anyone inside of it. Which is great when your drones are immune, can activate it at any time and get melee'd. There are floating weapon platforms that not only have big deadly gun options, but can take a shield generator that protects other units in the square with it. Cons Your drones get 2 armor and a decent survive stat but each one comes with the vulnerable trait, meaning they die in 1 wound not 2. You really need to play smart with this faction and use positioning to your advantage. While their commander may have the best command points, he's also one of the weakest ones out there with nothing but melee and a range 1 knockback. He really is key to making your team work properly in a full rules game. Not very newbie friendly. Missions Capture/Control is a big part of their missions, but asterians do this quite well with all their repositioning shenanigans. However, they also have a large set of kill type/points missions which require you to bring more lethal and less 'bounce around' weaponry. A good mix of units and proper leadership use are the main focus points. Forge Fathers Pros Is it any surprise that the dwarven faction is pretty much the most resilient group? They're very newbie friendly, fairly well rounded, have a varied but effective force to choose from and good leaders. Basic troops come in 2 varieties between the cheap melee/short range brokkr or more expensive power armored forge guard with big gun and hammer. Most guns are either some kind of armor melting laser or rapid fire pistol that makes suppression a breeze. Their engineers also like playing with things via remote control. Like giant mining lasers or massive amounts of explosives strapped to a remote drone. The Iron Ancestor is one of the toughest SOB's you can bring to a game of Deadzone. Cons One of the most expensive factions to play as outside of a few brokkr. Lots of great power armor also comes with a large price tag, making unit selection difficult. Spending a few extra points on items can make them even more survivable but again, not many spare points. Feels like they could use a few more units in the mix to be honest. Missions Capture/Control is the name of the game for these guys, so be careful if you want to bring a small elite force. Scouring is also very common, so another reason to have some spare brokkr around. Infiltrate and kill missions barely exist for them, but might turn up on the odd draw. Veer-Myn Mutant space rats with a love of biological weapons and mining equipment. Hard to really say what they're about yet. thiswayliesmadness fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 06:39
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Voyager I posted:Is it generally expected to have Standard Bearers spread throughout your army to give Inspire to everybody and minimize the chances for fluke rolls to send Regiments off the field? 50 pts for a 12" diameter reroll bubble seems like a pretty good deal, and hopefully they aren't too easy to snipe off the field. From what I've seen, you are expected to have around 4 sources of inspiration if you are fielding a 2000 point army, 3 if you are human. You can go without, which lets you field a larger army, but you become a lot more susceptible to fuckups and chance. Protecting and sniping standard bearers ends up really important. Edit: As for units not being properly engaged, a lot of people have already addressed this, but you can't really get away from a unit that previously charged you without support from other units or opening yourself up for a flank attack--it is rarely worth it unless you are nimble or an individual. As for shooting in melee, remember that your enemy doesn't attack on your turn, so shooting at a unit that attacked you on a previous turn means you are throwing away a bunch of melee attacks you'd get from a counter charge. It isn't like your unit is going anywhere, get stuck in. A lot of troops and hordes are also too wide to rotate and get a full move, since you pivot around your center and can't end a pivot inside an enemy unit. KPC_Mammon fucked around with this message at 08:05 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 07:51
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Esser-Z posted:I'll definitely be using some dinosaurs when I do KoW stuff, too. gently caress yes, dinosaurs and good wargames. Two tastes that go perfectly together! Yeah I really want to make a celts on dinosaurs kingdoms of men army.
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Jul 7, 2015 08:56
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Business Gorillas posted:what the gently caress is happening? has everything always been this cheap? My god, I spend like $100 on movement trays...
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Jul 7, 2015 10:23
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Business Gorillas posted:what the gently caress is happening? has everything always been this cheap? Yes, and then you discover how much GW has been loving you in the wallet. Shadoer posted:My god, I spend like $100 on movement trays... That's what happened to me when I discovered cheap laser cutting and free designs floating around. I now have like 3 Infinity tables' wort of HDF terrain (and Infinity likes a lot of terrain).
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Jul 7, 2015 10:54
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Very good big DZ post, thiswayliesmadness! I do note the Forge Fathers ARE getting more unit variety, incl;uding a new mid-tier of basic troop, with the Infestation kickstater. Specifically, they're getting those kicking rad power armor dwarves posted a bit ago. The Steel Warriors look so loving good. EDIT: And welcome everyone to the wider hobby, where things are still fairly pricey in sheer monetary value*, but seem incredibly cheap compared to GW! *At least on MY budget! Albeit I'm a dirty poor. Esser-Z fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 11:33
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With deadzone a big question I have is where to get more rules for factions. Are they only in the booster packs? Also for factions the Mars Attacks special civilian set is supposed to be like a better balaced Reb set. It's like Imperial Guard if you will. Better balanced stats then Rebs but less variety.
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Jul 7, 2015 11:44
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Doctor Borris posted:With deadzone a big question I have is where to get more rules for factions. Are they only in the booster packs? The faction decks come with the starters for each faction, and aren't available separately. Only the Martians and Humans from Mars Attacks, and the Deadzone Second Wave deck can be bought separately. e:vv Just did some quick math in Australian dollars, Battlezones urban/ruined/fortified Sector (20 terrain sprues) $90 Deluxe game mat $20 Rulebook $20 Second Wave Deck $9 Enforcer Faction starter $25 Enforcer booster $20 Enforcer Peacekeepers $25 Marauders Faction starter $25 Specialists Booster $17 Goblin Guntrak $17 = $268 AUD 40k Codex $90 40k Rules $140 = $230 AUD Or you could just buy one faction, and get an entire 46 mixed sprue Battlezone quadrant instead NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jul 7, 2015 |
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Jul 7, 2015 11:56
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Note that to use some of the later models like Peacekeepers and the walkers, you'll also need a Second Wave card deck--which has cards for every faction's newer models--, as those models aren't in their original faction decks. That's :tenbux: tops IIRC, so it's not really a big investment. You can get a starter, the second wave deck, and a couple boosters of your choice for less than a 40k codex. Or you could grab the core game and some boosters, or hell another couple starters for more factions, for less than the codex+core book for 40k! And that lets multiple people play!
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Jul 7, 2015 11:58
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