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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:This is just stupid bullshit though. What? BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Like, you can say that candidates should be "as open and honest" as they can be; but they're actively dissuaded from that because the American public have been stupid about it for decades. What you have left without a candidate is a caricature who just mouthpieces various policies and that's still enough to be electable. You're mad at the US public for all of the wrong reasons. Seriously, who the gently caress goes after the media? You guys watch way too much Fox News. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:And again, as for Hillary, this is a women who spent the last twenty years having the media pick apart her every sentence for some new gate to have. Like, we had a national conversation about whether or not she should have left her husband for gently caress sake. Again, this should be something that's perfectly okay to do for public figures, which I was perfectly content when they poo poo on Reagan, Thatcher, and Nixon during their funerals, respectively.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:12
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:
Made up for, of course, by the Republican debates  I swear, if there was a such thing as political pay-per-view, I would pay whatever fee I had to in order to watch if Donald Trump got in. Job Truniht posted:Seriously, who the gently caress goes after the media? You guys watch way too much Fox News. If you don't think that most mainstream media is tilted in favor of conservatives, I don't know what to tell you. Fritz Coldcockin fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 20:12
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Great_Gerbil posted:But, really, she's right. She probably wants a trade deal. But it would be stupid in any sense to say she absolutely supports a deal that turns out to be a big gently caress You to everyone. Oh, I think she's doing the right thing as a candidate (because by the time voters start to tune into the election, no one will give a poo poo that she, back in 2015 wouldn't commit one way or the other.) I am just saying if want to point to her being evasive for political gains, that's a way better place to go than stupid poo poo like "she doesn't REALLY believe in Gay marriage"
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Jul 9, 2015 20:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Or do you just care about her flip-floping on hair dye? Yes treating every item in my list as a serious critique of Hillary is probably the right move, good call. Although to be fair she seems like she'd play Ezreal exclusively.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:15
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Can we still dislike Clinton for being pro Israel and showing no indication of regulating the financial industry? I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of pro-Hillary sentiment in this thread.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:16
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botany posted:Can we still dislike Clinton for being pro Israel and showing no indication of regulating the financial industry? I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of pro-Hillary sentiment in this thread. I can dislike her pro-Israel stance, but I'll tolerate it. As for regulating the financial industry, since she hasn't been elected President, all I have to go on is what she's said--and what she's said is almost in line with Bernie Sanders on the subject.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:17
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Job Truniht posted:What? On which, I can dig either up for you. Job Truniht posted:What you have left without a candidate is a caricature who just mouthpieces various policies and that's still enough to be electable. You're mad at the US public for all of the wrong reasons. It isn't just FoxNews that has spent twenty years on a crusade. Its the entire beltway media and its like a real thing. It's also something that people who closely watch media and political media in particular, care and talk about. I am not mad at the US public. I'm mad at the irresponsible political media and Beltway. (Though you can blame the public for letting that become a thing.) Job Truniht posted:Again, this should be something that's perfectly okay to do for public figures, which I was perfectly content when they poo poo on Reagan, Thatcher, and Nixon during their funerals, respectively. Ah yes. That's totally the same thing as the witchunt Republicans launched against the Clintons, repeatedly. Did you hear about that time Reagan may have possibly had a dude killed? Oh I a not saying he did it, but you know, makes you think!
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Jul 9, 2015 20:17
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Alter Ego posted:This. It's profitable to attack the Clintons, because there is a large subset of people who will swallow any negative thing that's said about them without question. They're called Fox News viewers. I actually think I might have given it too much credit. Because of the various business interests which solely exist to siphon off as much money as possible off the GOP base it is more like quack cure and anti-vax spheres than iPhone reporting.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:18
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botany posted:Can we still dislike Clinton for being pro Israel and showing no indication of regulating the financial industry? I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of pro-Hillary sentiment in this thread. You can, though not sure what your options are there.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:19
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Alter Ego posted:I can dislike her pro-Israel stance, but I'll tolerate it. As for regulating the financial industry, since she hasn't been elected President, all I have to go on is what she's said--and what she's said is almost in line with Bernie Sanders on the subject. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:You can, though not sure what your options are there. What options are you talking about? I'm saying I dislike her as a candidate, that's not a stance defined by options.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:21
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botany posted:Well you could look at who is paying for her campaign. the same people who are going to pay for any other successful candidate botany posted:What options are you talking about? I'm saying I dislike her as a candidate, that's not a stance defined by options. I am saying, I am not sure who else you can support w/r/t Isreal.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:22
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:the same people who are going to pay for any other successful candidate quote:I am saying, I am not sure who else you can support w/r/t Isreal. I can dislike Hillary without preferring another candidate.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:23
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botany posted:Can we still dislike Clinton for being pro Israel and showing no indication of regulating the financial industry? I'm somewhat surprised by the amount of pro-Hillary sentiment in this thread. I think you may be misinterpreting "Hillary is not the literal daughter of Satan, the Queen of Lies, incarnate of all things bad" as support.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:24
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botany posted:That is not a reason not to dislike her, that's a reason to dislike the other candidates as well. That's what a lot of the "pro-Hillary" sentiment you're finding is, I think.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:25
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:On which, I can dig either up for you. I literally don't understand your statement. How did that make Romney unelectable? BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It isn't just FoxNews that has spent twenty years on a crusade. Its the entire beltway media and its like a real thing. It's also something that people who closely watch media and political media in particular, care and talk about. How long has Hillary been a politician? When is it not okay to attack a politician? I went onto Huckabee's Facebook page and commented on one of his pie chart graphs showing support for him that he'd be pretty popular w/ racists and pedophiles. I don't feel bad about it at all. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I am not mad at the US public. I'm mad at the irresponsible political media and Beltway. (Though you can blame the public for letting that become a thing.) I hated the media until I started watching more than just excerpts this forum has posted about Fox News. There were still quite a few media moguls who went on a crusade to destroy Romney, and there was even a weird watershed moment when Fox News hurt his chances by doing their "inequality is not actually a thing" with "poor people are the real classists" defense. To sum it up, even if the media completely steps out of line, it reflects to the benefit of the public because we can differentiate a fake controversy from a real one. I can conjure up an analysis on how bad the 47% remark hurt Romney, if you want. I can also conjure a statistic that says most Americans don't give a poo poo about Benghazi. Those are good things. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Ah yes. That's totally the same thing as the witchunt Republicans launched against the Clintons, repeatedly. Did you hear about that time Reagan may have possibly had a dude killed? Oh I a not saying he did it, but you know, makes you think! I think making fun or insulting of dead people and conjuring up sex scandals are pretty equally shameless tbqh.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:28
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botany posted:That is not a reason not to dislike her, that's a reason to dislike the other candidates as well. So you are completely irrelevant. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:On which, I can dig either up for you. For fun try to name a Democrat who has gotten the Ollie North treatment.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:29
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Nintendo Kid posted:The only person you're yelling about not believing things this election cycle is a woman. And correlation isn't causation, idiot. I have no reason to "yell" about Republicans because I find them all revolting and whoever inevitably ends up their candidate will most likely lose. I have reason to "yell" about Hillary because I consider her the only obstacle on the path to a President Sanders, and see plenty of misguided lefties shrugging and handing their vote to her with a sigh, duped into another eight years of further corporate rule of the country. If President H. Clinton had a principled history of standing for values that I care about, I'd happily vote for her. Convince me she has that, and I will change my vote. Nintendo Kid posted:Politicians are supposed to operate in accordance with what the voters want after all. I don't completely agree with this statement. Nintendo Kid posted:Thanks, paranoid guy who isn't aware that she fought for gay rights back in the early 90s. I'm sure that makes up for the jack squat she did since then??? http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/hillary-clintons-gay-marriage-problem/372717/
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Jul 9, 2015 20:31
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Taerkar posted:For fun try to name a Democrat who has gotten the Ollie North treatment. Is Ollie North even liked outside of Fox News?
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Jul 9, 2015 20:31
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Taerkar posted:So you are completely irrelevant. I'm not american, so as far as that is concerned, yeah, I'm irrelevant. I'm a member of the vast rest of the world, looking at your clown-car of an electoral system and the sad lineup of billboards you call candidates, and I'm concluding that once more, the rest of the world is in for one gently caress of a time because you idiots can't get your poo poo together.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:32
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Alter Ego posted:If you don't think that most mainstream media is tilted in favor of conservatives, I don't know what to tell you. I think the NYT, The New Yorker, and Washington Post are all pretty good, depending on the context. There are plenty of international news agencies that are good. Fox News isn't even that popular outside of "old people watching cable TV".
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Jul 9, 2015 20:33
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Job Truniht posted:Is Ollie North even liked outside of Fox News? He has products and endorsements, those products might be podcasts, or dvds. American Dad made a good little sing-song about him and Iran-Contra.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:33
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Nonsense posted:He has products and endorsements, those products might be podcasts, or dvds. American Dad made a good little sing-song about him and Iran-Contra. People tell me they were being ironic.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:34
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Taerkar posted:For fun try to name a Democrat who has gotten the Ollie North treatment.  Job Truniht posted:People tell me they were being ironic.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:34
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Job Truniht posted:Is Ollie North even liked outside of Fox News? I have actually heard people talk about how much of a patriot he was and how he would know what to do with Iran. The last bit broke my brain for a bit.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:35
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Sometimes I love listening to people on social media who are absolutely crazy. Bernie Sanders is apparently the next Hitler because socialism.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:39
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Taerkar posted:I have actually heard people talk about how much of a patriot he was and how he would know what to do with Iran. If there's anyone who knows how to deal with Iran it's Ollie North.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:39
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botany posted:I'm a member of the vast rest of the world, looking at your clown-car of an electoral system and the sad lineup of billboards you call candidates, and I'm concluding that once more, the rest of the world is in for one gently caress of a time because you idiots can't get your poo poo together. Remember how Obama was supposed to make the rest of the world like us.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:40
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Job Truniht posted:I literally don't understand your statement. How did that make Romney unelectable? He was unelectable because he was a lovely politician who literally can't relate or fake it even to people. It wasn't because of that video that people figured it out. It was because in every interaction with him, he is that person. Job Truniht posted:How long has Hillary been a politician? When is it not okay to attack a politician? Hillary wasn't a politician technically until what, 2000? The point is that the media have made it a pass time to go after her on stupid made up bullshit from drudge and turn it into a national loving circus. Job Truniht posted:I hated the media until I started watching more than just excerpts this forum has posted about Fox News. There were still quite a few media moguls who went on a crusade to destroy Romney, and there was even a weird watershed moment when Fox News hurt his chances by doing their "inequality is not actually a thing" with "poor people are the real classists" defense. To sum it up, even if the media completely steps out of line, it reflects to the benefit of the public because we can differentiate a fake controversy from a real one. Like the whole reason that Hillary is really, really defensive with the media is that she's spent the better part of twenty years fending off their absolutely stupid bullshit (insert your favorite non-story story here). Yes, the american people can, largely differentiate the two (not always.) It's not because she's just naturally "dishonest" or something. It's because she's been dealing with their stupid imagined bullshit for years that has absolutely not subsided. Like it isn't some healthy vetting of a public figure, its a beltway media that is absolutely obsessed with it and vexed that they can't get anything to stick. BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 20:43 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 20:40
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Vox Nihili posted:I'm sure her switch to supporting marriage equality precisely as the national view tipped toward "yes" came from the heart. I'm a couple of pages behind, but,  how is this even suspicious at all?The period when the largest number of people were having the biggest shift in opinion would be the least suspicious time for anyone to express a sincere change of heart.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:43
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pwnyXpress posted:And correlation isn't causation, idiot. I have no reason to "yell" about Republicans because I find them all revolting and whoever inevitably ends up their candidate will most likely lose. I have reason to "yell" about Hillary because I consider her the only obstacle on the path to a President Sanders, and see plenty of misguided lefties shrugging and handing their vote to her with a sigh, duped into another eight years of further corporate rule of the country. If President H. Clinton had a principled history of standing for values that I care about, I'd happily vote for her. Convince me she has that, and I will change my vote. I don't know how to tell you this but although Bernie looks good on paper, he does not appeal to the broad base of people needed to elect a Democrat to the White House.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:44
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Like the whole reason that Hillary is really, really defensive with the media is that she's spent the better part of twenty years fending off their absolutely stupid bullshit. There's a difference between a freeper editorial on Vince Foster's autopsy and the NYT digging in about the hundreds of millions earned under an implicit conflict of interest. Conflating the two helps get her off the hook in your eyes, but it's spurious to do so. quote:It's not because she's just naturally "dishonest" or something. It's because she's been dealing with their stupid imagined bullshit for years that has absolutely not subsided. She said several factually untrue things in the one big interview she's actually given. You're wrong.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:46
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I think I will be content if we manage to get Tim Heidecker to make a music video in support of Donald Trump before he bows out.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:47
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TheDisreputableDog posted:
But that implies that Republicans care whether she was factually correct or not.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:47
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TheDisreputableDog posted:She said several factually untrue things in the one big interview she's actually given. You're wrong. She didn't if you actually read the transcript, but I doubt you're going to do that. Of course, let's just all pretend that every candidate in 2016 is always 100% factual and honest. Then we'll all go for loving lolipops and ice cream.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:48
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TheDisreputableDog posted:Remember how Obama was supposed to make the rest of the world like us.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:49
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:She didn't if you actually read the transcript, but I doubt you're going to do that. No, haven't you heard? Only President Mahatma Bernard Jesus Sanders is 100% factual and honest, but we didn't listen, and now
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Jul 9, 2015 20:52
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:She didn't if you actually read the transcript, but I doubt you're going to do that. So you're simultaneously saying she didn't lie but every candidate lies anyway so her lies are nbd. Do I have that position correct.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:54
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TheDisreputableDog posted:So you're simultaneously saying she didn't lie but every candidate lies anyway so her lies are nbd. I'm pretty sure the position is that sometimes politicians have to take politically tenable positions even if they don't believe them personally and that's nbd. That's nuance, though, so you might have trouble with it. Can you please point out some of the ironclad lies Hillary stated?
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Jul 9, 2015 20:57
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Great_Gerbil posted:I'm pretty sure the position is that sometimes politicians have to take politically tenable positions even if they don't believe them personally and that's nbd. Nuance is awfully difficult for goons, I find.
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Jul 9, 2015 20:59
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:He was unelectable because he was a lovely politician who literally can't relate or fake it even to people. It wasn't because of that video that people figured it out. It was because in every interaction with him, he is that person. I think that video just confirmed everyone's beliefs, but we still try to have a tendency to vote on more than just intuition. I think that's a fair thing Hillary supporters are demanding in this thread. But to do that you're going to have to fess up. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Hillary wasn't a politician technically until what, 2000? The point is that the media have made it a pass time to go after her on stupid made up bullshit from drudge and turn it into a national loving circus. She was a politician even before she was First Lady, as was Obama before he was a State Senator. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Like the whole reason that Hillary is really, really defensive with the media is that she's spent the better part of twenty years fending off their absolutely stupid bullshit (insert your favorite non-story story here). Yes, the american people can, largely differentiate the two (not always.) It's not because she's just naturally "dishonest" or something. It's because she's been dealing with their stupid imagined bullshit for years that has absolutely not subsided. She's a really high profile candidate who is going to spend even more than the $249 million that she spent in the last election? Is that reason enough to rip her and Jeb apart? Jeb has been saying stupid poo poo after stupid poo poo and it's all coming out in the open. Censorship won't help here. She's not dishonest about her foreign policy. She's openly hawkish and she reminds everyone about that. Her positions on economic inequality are debatable. Whether or not she caves to the banks will immediately come out when her list of economic advisors comes out.
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Jul 9, 2015 21:00
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