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Stereotype posted:Hillary is absolutely going to adopt a lot of Bernie's policies because she is very pragmatic and, though she is heavily supported by the banking industry as the front runner, will say enough good Bernie type things to get a lot of additional support when Bernie tells everyone to go vote for her after he loses. I'm curious can you suggest one of Sander's policies Clinton will have to adopt to win the nomination?
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Jul 9, 2015 22:15
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EugeneJ posted:I know people who would rather stay home than vote for Hillary in the general election Yeah but the Republican field is basically wall-to-wall non-motivators, plus Trump. As long as the Democratic nominee doesn't actually galvanize opposition voters to the polls, we're fine. How much passionate, action-motivating fear or disgust do you think the Republicans can generate against Hillary in the might-vote-might-stay-home base? She occupied a key advisory role during a prosperous, well-liked two-term administration, plus served in another as a well-regardes SecState. She's been vetted, in the open and by unnumbered parties, for the past quarter-century—and nothing motivatingly bad has turned up. Also, I think "you could be voting for the first woman to become POTUS" will motivate some Democratic/left independent voters, not to mention the small but extant bloc of voters who have been crazy-eager to vote Hillary Clinton for Prez for a decade.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:16
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Trabisnikof posted:I think you're underestimating the power of narrative. If Sanders ran, it would be socialism versus American communities. They'd take a page out of the Rove textbook and run just as populist in messaging as Sanders while turning his populism and wonkiness against him. How does any of that work when GOP governors have tanked their respective states economies? Bernie would not be crushed by Jeb Bush. If Bernie won the nomination he had to have pretty overwhelming inertia than he currently has in reality.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:17
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Sir Kodiak posted:According to PPP polling, Bernie supporters have a 60%/33%/7% favorable/unfavorable/undecided opinion of Hillary. Hillary supporters have a 37%/25%/38% opinion of Bernie. Overall with democrats she's 77%/18%/5% while Bernie is 43%/22%/35%. The idea that it would be Bernie supporters would who revolt against Hillary, rather than the other way around, doesn't really hold up. I'd love to live in the universe where Bernie wins and we get hillaryis45.org
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Jul 9, 2015 22:17
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http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/chris_matthews_kos_ted_cruz_they_seized_the_presidency_in_2000_and_you_did_not_complain/ Remember that Senator everyone thought was a really smart sociopath that might weasel his way to the nomination? He's still running, for some reason, and has been getting clowned by the media pretty heavily since the SCOTUS decisions last month. quote:CHRIS MATTHEWS: Let’s talk about the election. In the 2000 election, you had a bill role in the recount. We covered it here. It was the best thing I ever covered. I never liked covering anything like the recount.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:17
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Trabisnikof posted:I think you're underestimating the power of narrative. If Sanders ran, it would be socialism versus American communities. They'd take a page out of the Rove textbook and run just as populist in messaging as Sanders while turning his populism and wonkiness against him. Not seeing this at all. The Republicans managed to convince the majority of Americans that Obama was a socialist and he managed to win twice. Panicking about the socialist label which the Republicans have already diluted into meaninglessness is dumb.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:17
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Eugene J was also the dude ranting about how black people are mind controlled by Black churches so keep that in mind when you read his posts
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Jul 9, 2015 22:19
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Nonsense posted:How does any of that work when GOP governors have tanked their respective states economies? Bernie would not be crushed by Jeb Bush. If Bernie won the nomination he had to have pretty overwhelming inertia than he currently has in reality. Nah, they already are claiming they didn't tank the economies, Obama did! It won't matter, who's right, each side will find enough "evidence" to support them. This is going to be a base election not a swing election, so it is useful to make independents too disgusted to vote while riling up you base. Sheng-ji Yang posted:Not seeing this at all. The Republicans managed to convince the majority of Americans that Obama was a socialist and he managed to win twice. Panicking about the socialist label which the Republicans have already diluted into meaninglessness is dumb. The difference is Sanders is believably a socialist. Besides, Sanders won't have the corporate connections to help allay those fears.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:21
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Not seeing this at all. The Republicans managed to convince the majority of Americans that Obama was a socialist and he managed to win twice. Panicking about the socialist label which the Republicans have already diluted into meaninglessness is dumb. They can actually get quotes from Sanders describing himself as one, though.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:21
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Kor posted:I'd love to live in the universe where Bernie wins and we get hillaryis45.org Sadly unlikely, as funny as that would be. But Bernie supporters are precisely the part of the Democratic party used to holding their noses and voting for the nominee.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:23
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EugeneJ posted:It would be interesting if the Bernie supporters collectively started a "Bernie or no one" campaign - threatening to not vote Dem if Bernie loses the primary. I wonder if the Democratic brass would abandon Hillary in that case. Not only would it not sway any Democratic brass, it would go against Bernie's own expressly stated desire not to be a Nader-esque spoiler.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:23
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Squizzle posted:They can actually get quotes from Sanders describing himself as one, though. What is the difference when only 36% of Americans polled saying Obama wasn't a socialist? Obama might as well have said he was a Satanic Muslim Communist, it doesn't matter what's real, what matters is what's believed.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:24
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If anything I'd like to thank Hillary for keeping Trey Gowdy around to laugh at. In the last few days there has been this controversy whether she lied about some subpoena about the email stuff. As I understand it, the context of the question was back in December, and the subpoena was not issued until March, so what she said about not getting a subpoena was correct. Right? If that's true, she could've said "This was in December and we didn't get a subpoena until March" to avoid this whole stupid thing.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:25
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EugeneJ posted:It would be interesting if the Bernie supporters collectively started a "Bernie or no one" campaign - threatening to not vote Dem if Bernie loses the primary. I wonder if the Democratic brass would abandon Hillary in that case.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:25
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Gaining 30 is a whole hell of a lot easier than the 120+ plus the republicans need to. That's true on some notional level, maybe, but it's not especially relevant to the actual dynamics of the election, because the remaining electoral votes still basically depend on the popular vote. If the Republicans win the popular vote, getting those 120+ EVs is not going to be a particular challenge; if the Democrats lose it, it's almost meaningless to talk about how easy it is to get 30. It's true that Democrats have a higher floor than Republicans. I don't think it's remotely true that this has any effect on how likely each side is to win an election.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:25
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Trabisnikof posted:I'm curious can you suggest one of Sander's policies Clinton will have to adopt to win the nomination? I'd have to see something where they significantly differ in policy. They both support high income tax reform, environmental regulation, and labor rights. Once they start debating and Bernie says super progressive things that she wouldn't have brought up, she'll probably agree and be pulled to the left.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:27
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Guys what if the whole world elected Bernie as president of the universe? Just thinking out loud here.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:30
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Obama might as well have said he was a Satanic Muslim Communist, it doesn't matter what's real, what matters is what's believed. Are you saying that he isn't? But no, I think the pre-mortems of Bernie's campaign are super overblown. He won't have as easy of a time as Hillary in the general, not by any means, but if you're in a situation where he wins the Dem primary and gets the support of the party, he is definitely still capable of beating any of the current crop of Republican candidates. The biggest criticisms I've seen of him so far are about his minority messaging and his self-professed socialism. The first is easily fixed by the shifts in focus and messaging that comes from moving from a primary campaign to a general election campaign, and the second basically doesn't matter when you take into account what Republican and media messaging is like regardless of who the D politician is.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:31
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:What is the difference when only 36% of Americans polled saying Obama wasn't a socialist? Obama might as well have said he was a Satanic Muslim Communist, it doesn't matter what's real, what matters is what's believed. I think that there's an important difference between what people intellectually accept as true and how they emotionally react to it. Having some soundbite of the candidate saying "yep, I'm socialist as all hell" would create a different reaction than just believing that the candidate is a socialist, but Serious Adults tell you contrary.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:32
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DaveWoo posted:Not only would it not sway any Democratic brass, it would go against Bernie's own expressly stated desire not to be a Nader-esque spoiler.  in the general election, and then piously say that the problem is that the Democrats didn't run a real progressive like Bernie as we invade Iran.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:32
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This is my favorite Bernie Sanders video: http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c563893ec1/bernie-sanders-raw?_cc=__d___&_ccid=gsjqj0.nibv44
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Jul 9, 2015 22:32
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Sir Tonk posted:http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/chris_matthews_kos_ted_cruz_they_seized_the_presidency_in_2000_and_you_did_not_complain/ I know Walker's typically thought of as the front-runner in this particular category, but in a pound-for-pound match-up, Cruz has THE most punchable face.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:33
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C2C - 2.0 posted:I know Walker's typically thought of as the front-runner in this particular category, but in a pound-for-pound match-up, Cruz has THE most punchable face. I've always found the periodic mentions of which GOP candidate is "most punchable" to be more than a little distasteful and childish, but yes.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:37
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Rubio launches a sick burn.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:45
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Thats pretty close to threatening a presidential candidate you idiots, but gun to my head? I'd have to go with Cruz.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:45
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Sir Tonk posted:http://www.salon.com/2015/07/09/chris_matthews_kos_ted_cruz_they_seized_the_presidency_in_2000_and_you_did_not_complain/ You can almost hear the sound of him backhanding Cruz at the end of it. Good God why can't media always hold a person's feet to the flames like this?
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Jul 9, 2015 22:52
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. Bill and Ted are excellent, I guess if Hillary hangs out with them she might not be so bad. (San Dimas High School Football Rules)
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Jul 9, 2015 22:52
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn.
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Jul 9, 2015 22:53
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. Most Americans like Bill, so this sort of thing will only last as long as the primary.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:00
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. I can't wait for the next Bill and Ted movie.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:00
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Nessus posted:Yeah, the economy was awful back during the 90s! Oh wait. You know, when we all had jobs, the economy was great, and all we had to worry about was Bill Clinton's blowjob instead of a bunch of wars in the Middle East. (This may be a paraphrase of why my parents supported Hillary Clinton in '08, and why they currently support her now for president.) Nostalgia is a powerful force, do not underestimate it. Also Bill and Ted is an awesome movie, and gently caress you Marco Rubio for using it in a political attack ad. 
fade5 fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 23:02
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. The whole thing is stupid, but the "to yesterday" thing bugs me. Yesterday wasn't that bad. Things have actually been going pretty well for the country recently. Man I wish Carlin was around to roast Rubio for using his likeness in an attack ad though.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:07
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That seems to be the current GOP attack plan - attack Sanders and Clinton for being too left with antiquated policies.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:09
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site posted:The whole thing is stupid, but the "to yesterday" thing bugs me. Yesterday wasn't that bad. Things have actually been going pretty well for the country recently.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:09
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Bill and Ted also came out in 1989, so there's some serious mental gymnastics required to follow the logic here. Also, via MSNBC's Alex Seitz-Wald on the Twitter: quote:Just in: Hillary Clinton will give a major speech Monday laying out her economic vision for the country in New York City.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:09
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GalacticAcid posted:Rubio launches a sick burn. A couple of likable characters who recruit a dream team of advisors and colleagues and save the future—is Cruz endorsing Hillary with this image? e: By Cruz, I mean Rubio. Sorry, this cycle's Republican candidates are fungible. Squizzle fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 23:09
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Nessus posted:Keanu Reeves is still around, isn't he? (I gather the other fellow would probably be OK with it.) He better be. I want another John Wick. Squizzle posted:A couple of likable characters who recruit a dream team of advisors and colleagues and save the future—is Cruz endorsing Hillary with this image? lol yeah i don't think Rubio actually saw the movie or he would've known the plot was pretty much opposite his point.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:11
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Bernie would just get Eugene Debs and run as his VP.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:11
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pwnyXpress posted:I'm sure that makes up for the jack squat she did since then??? She was supposed to do what, exactly, in your opinion as a Senator and then a Secretary of State, and then someone who wasn't in political office? Job Truniht posted:
Man I can't imagine why she wasn't supporting gay marriage in Reagan's America. Couldn't have been because that was political suicide in a world where more than half the electorate didn't care that gay people were dying left and right.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:12
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Nintendo Kid posted:Man I can't imagine why she wasn't supporting gay marriage in Reagan's America. Couldn't have been because that was political suicide in a world where more than half the electorate didn't care that gay people were dying left and right. While Bernie was officially declaring Pride Day in Burlington.
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Jul 9, 2015 23:14
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