The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

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CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Skunkrocker posted:

I have actually considered getting into the modding stuff for Rebirth, but... meh. Lazy.

I even downloaded the "original music" mod because I loved Daniel's themes, but then never installed it. Nor did I install the "hats and hair for Eden" mod that supposedly gives you like 200 hair styles.

All you have to do is drag and drop a folder into another folder :confused:

# ? Jul 8, 2015 06:58

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:32

Skunkrocker: Jan 14, 2012; Your favorite ~~furry~~ wrestler.

Yeah, I know, right? Just thinking about it gives me the sweaty pits.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 07:09

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Since i didn't see any definitive breakdown on getting Devil Rooms to spawn that is actually confirmed for Rebirth, i looked at the game code myself and this is what i came up with. (You can substitute Devil with Angel for the rest of this, this is the calculation to make a door spawn, but it has no influence over which of the two it is.)

The game checks the chance to spawn the door when you beat the boss and every time you enter the boss room after that, on floors 2 through 8. If at any point the door fails to spawn, it will never spawn again for that floor. The only exception is Goat Head, since it circumvents the whole chance calculation and can even re-open a "failed" spawn.

The chance to spawn the door goes like this:

The base chance to spawn the door is 1%.
Have a Pentagram? Add 20%.
Have a Black Candle? Add 30%.
Have more than one Pentagram (somehow)? Add another 10%.
Is your current active item Book of Revelations? + 35%.
Is your current active item Book of Belial? + 2500% (Yes you read that right.)
Have you blown up a Beggar on this floor? + 35%. (Only normal coin beggars count for this)
Have you suffered red heart damage in this room? If not, +35%.
Have you suffered red heart damage on this floor? If not, +99%.
Have you blown up a corpse (grey dudes in shops, secret rooms etc) on this floor? +10%.

Then, every time that isn't the first time this gets calculated in a given game round, the chance gets decreased like this:

Was the last time you've seen a Devil Door spawn two floors back? If yes, Chance * 0.5
Was the last time you've seen a Devil Door spawn on the last or this floor? If yes, Chance * 0.25

So the reason your Devil Door is likely to vanish as soon as you step out of the room is that the calculated chance for another spawn of the door immediately gets the *0.25 multiplier. This is why Book of Belial has that huge chance increase, to counteract that and keep the door open. So if you have a BoB somewhere on the floor but not with you in the boss fight and you see the door spawn, you can leave the boss room to get your BoB before entering the boss room again, to keep the door "open". Might be helpful if you haven't uncovered the entire floor yet and are looking for more health to trade in.

After this whole thing comes Goat Head and says "Whatevs man, i go straight to the goal, i don't care about all this math."

HenryEx fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 8, 2015

# ? Jul 8, 2015 19:19

Wrist Watch: Apr 19, 2011; What?

Wait so I'm reading this right, if you have the Book of Belial and run in/out of the boss room enough times the devil room will eventually close? Not that there's much reason to do that or whatever.

I'd just test it out myself to see how many times it'd take but I'm on mobile at the moment.

e: So the "evil up" part of black candle does actually increase your devil room chance? Does the rosary/bible tract make angel rooms more common then, or devil rooms if you've locked those in since their description is just "faith up"? Rosary Bead I think we know already does increase angel room chance specifically, but now I'm curious if the others influence anything.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 19:32

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Wrist Watch posted:

Wait so I'm reading this right, if you have the Book of Belial and run in/out of the boss room enough times the devil room will eventually close? Not that there's much reason to do that or whatever.

(2500% + 1%) * 0.25 > 100% (ie the lowest it can go is still certain), it's essentially an "always spawn" thing except it doesn't force it to spawn if it didn't already.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 19:41

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

The above is just the game's calculation whether "The Door" spawns or not. Which one it ultimately is, Devil or Angel room, is decided at a different place.

I don't have a good grasp on the chances for/against an Angel room yet or whether the items that increase Angel room chance even stack, but i DO know that having the Rosary Bead or Key Piece 1/2 give better odds at Angel rooms.

Here's a fun thing i've learned today: Donating ten or more coins at the Donation Machine increases your odds of getting an Angel room instead of a Devil room!

# ? Jul 8, 2015 19:52

Color Printer: May 9, 2011; You get used to it. I don't
even see the code. All I see
is Ipecac, Scapular, Polyphemus...

It brings joy to my heart knowing that others are doing this, and not me.

...Of course, I kinda wish I could look myself but it's all obfuscated to hell and I haven't bothered to go looking to see if others have simplified/labeled it or anything.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 19:56

Fano: Oct 20, 2010

HenryEx posted:

Since i didn't see any definitive breakdown on getting Devil Rooms to spawn that is actually confirmed for Rebirth, i looked at the game code myself and this is what i came up with. (You can substitute Devil with Angel for the rest of this, this is the calculation to make a door spawn, but it has no influence over which of the two it is.)

The game checks the chance to spawn the door when you beat the boss and every time you enter the boss room after that, on floors 2 through 8. If at any point the door fails to spawn, it will never spawn again for that floor. The only exception is Goat Head, since it circumvents the whole chance calculation and can even re-open a "failed" spawn.

The chance to spawn the door goes like this:

The base chance to spawn the door is 1%.

Have a Pentagram? Add 20%.

Have a Black Candle? Add 30%.

Have more than one Pentagram (somehow)? Add another 10%.

Is your current active item Book of Revelations? + 35%.

Is your current active item Book of Belial? + 2500% (Yes you read that right.)

Have you blown up a Beggar on this floor? + 35%. (Only normal coin beggars count for this)

Have you suffered red heart damage in this room? If not, +35%.

Have you suffered red heart damage on this floor? If not, +99%.

Have you blown up a corpse (grey dudes in shops, secret rooms etc) on this floor? +10%.

Then, every time that isn't the first time this gets calculated in a given game round, the chance gets decreased like this:

Was the last time you've seen a Devil Door spawn two floors back? If yes, Chance * 0.5

Was the last time you've seen a Devil Door spawn on the last or this floor? If yes, Chance * 0.25

So the reason your Devil Door is likely to vanish as soon as you step out of the room is that the calculated chance for another spawn of the door immediately gets the *0.25 multiplier. This is why Book of Belial has that huge chance increase, to counteract that and keep the door open. So if you have a BoB somewhere on the floor but not with you in the boss fight and you see the door spawn, you can leave the boss room to get your BoB before entering the boss room again, to keep the door "open". Might be helpful if you haven't uncovered the entire floor yet and are looking for more health to trade in.

After this whole thing comes Goat Head and says "Whatevs man, i go straight to the goal, i don't care about all this math."

I've always wanted to know if it was possible to make a mod that would show your current chance of spawning an angel/devil room on your HUD, is this possible?

# ? Jul 8, 2015 20:12

Araxxor: Oct 20, 2012; My disdain for you all knows no bounds.

HenryEx posted:

Here's a fun thing i've learned today: Donating ten or more coins at the Donation Machine increases your odds of getting an Angel room instead of a Devil room!

Does bombing it have any effect? Cause that would explain why I rarely see Angel Rooms, even if I go out of my way to get them.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 20:25

Gasmask: Apr 27, 2003; And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee

So what's the go-to tool for unlocking everything. I am sick to death of Lost runs and willing to admit defeat.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 20:26

Ariong: Jun 25, 2012; Get bashed, platonist!

If you alt+f4 before the game over screen shows up you can restart from the start of the floor. That's how I did it.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 21:05

flyboi: Oct 13, 2005; agg stop posting; College Slice

Ariong posted:

If you alt+f4 before the game over screen shows up you can restart from the start of the floor. That's how I did it.

And on PS4 if you hit the PS button to go to the main menu, hold the PS button after and click Close Program you get the same result.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 21:15

Gasmask: Apr 27, 2003; And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee

Ariong posted:

If you alt+f4 before the game over screen shows up you can restart from the start of the floor. That's how I did it.

Oh nice. Ok I'll give this a shot. Thanks.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 21:18

Bloody Pom: Jun 5, 2011

I Cheat Engined my way through The Lost, and I will probably do the same for his Afterbirth unlocks. To each his own, I suppose.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 21:36

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

So, without steam achievement manager (running linux) I know I need that flaming heart item from the angel rooms, but there's probably a bunch of other things. Is there a guide to getting all the Rebirth steps finished to finally achieve Real Platinum God? Steam vaguely says "Locked Achievements: +2", but I don't know if I trust that page.

# ? Jul 8, 2015 22:03

flyboi: Oct 13, 2005; agg stop posting; College Slice

Cheekio posted:

So, without steam achievement manager (running linux) I know I need that flaming heart item from the angel rooms, but there's probably a bunch of other things. Is there a guide to getting all the Rebirth steps finished to finally achieve Real Platinum God? Steam vaguely says "Locked Achievements: +2", but I don't know if I trust that page.

You can see which items you need to touch by going into the stats and viewing the items. Any with a ? need to be touched and you can compare it to http://platinumgod.co.uk/rebirth

Click the gear in the upper-right and order by: id

They then both match up item for item

# ? Jul 8, 2015 22:13

Pythagoras a trois: Feb 19, 2004; I have a lot of points to make and I will make them later.

Got the flaming heart thing

What do you know, that was all I had left

Not shabby at all:

# ? Jul 8, 2015 23:20

Hyphen-ated: Apr 24, 2006; Not to be confused with endash or minus.

HenryEx posted:

Since i didn't see any definitive breakdown on getting Devil Rooms to spawn that is actually confirmed for Rebirth, i looked at the game code myself and this is what i came up with.

You're a hero.
What tools are you using?

quote:

Have you blown up a Beggar on this floor? + 35%. (Only normal coin beggars count for this)

How sure are you that only normal beggars count? I previously thought devil beggars, key beggars, and the shell game guy from the arcade all counted.

quote:

Have you blown up a corpse (grey dudes in shops, secret rooms etc) on this floor? +10%.

!!!

Gasmask posted:

So what's the go-to tool for unlocking everything. I am sick to death of Lost runs and willing to admit defeat.

Congratulations on your sanity!
Get the savefile from here http://www.speedrun.com/isaacrebirth/resources, there's a readme inside the zip

# ? Jul 8, 2015 23:43

Max Peck: Oct 12, 2013; You know you're having a bad day when a Cylon ambush would improve it.

Two Dead Cats do not count as two Guppy items. I'll admit I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 02:32

VideoGames: Aug 18, 2003

for the very first time I got to the chest and beat the blue baby! I had a nice run as cain.
proptosis, shielded, rubber tears with about four damage up items made it doable.

im really glad I took the shielded tears item in the boss rush as that properly allowed me to stand next to Isaac and the baby and ignore their own tears. I took the polaroid with me. what happens if you take the negative? do you get a different chest? or a different ending after the chest? (I know I am massively behind everyone else but I am very bad at this game. I was on a -140 something losing streak before this)

# ? Jul 10, 2015 10:40

communism bitch: Apr 24, 2009

Max Peck posted:

Two Dead Cats do not count as two Guppy items. I'll admit I'm not surprised, but I'm still disappointed.

How'd you get the same cat piece twice?

# ? Jul 10, 2015 10:44

Max Peck: Oct 12, 2013; You know you're having a bad day when a Cylon ambush would improve it.

Oberleutnant posted:

How'd you get the same cat piece twice?

They both came from red chests (one in a normal room, one in the secret room after defeating Greed), and I didn't pick the first one up until after the second one spawned (because I had had 8 red hearts, no soul/black hearts, and a lot of damage taken so far that run).

# ? Jul 10, 2015 11:29

IUG: Jul 14, 2007

VideoGames posted:

for the very first time I got to the chest and beat the blue baby! I had a nice run as cain.
proptosis, shielded, rubber tears with about four damage up items made it doable.

im really glad I took the shielded tears item in the boss rush as that properly allowed me to stand next to Isaac and the baby and ignore their own tears. I took the polaroid with me. what happens if you take the negative? do you get a different chest? or a different ending after the chest? (I know I am massively behind everyone else but I am very bad at this game. I was on a -140 something losing streak before this)

If you take the negative you can go to Sheol and continue after beating Satan. If you take the poloroid you can go to the Chest after beating Isaac. If you grab the wrong one for the path, then the fights stop at Satan/Isaac. You won't go to The Chest/The Dark Room.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 14:07

Dias: Feb 20, 2011; by sebmojo

Max Peck posted:

They both came from red chests (one in a normal room, one in the secret room after defeating Greed), and I didn't pick the first one up until after the second one spawned (because I had had 8 red hearts, no soul/black hearts, and a lot of damage taken so far that run).

I got Krumpus' Head like that once. One from Greed, one from the Devil Room fight.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 14:11

VideoGames: Aug 18, 2003

IUG posted:

If you take the negative you can go to Sheol and continue after beating Satan. If you take the poloroid you can go to the Chest after beating Isaac. If you grab the wrong one for the path, then the fights stop at Satan/Isaac. You won't go to The Chest/The Dark Room.

oh thanks! that makes a lot of sense. maybe I had never got to the chest before because I was always taking the wrong one (or died)

# ? Jul 10, 2015 14:32

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Hyphen-ated posted:

What tools are you using?

Just Cheat Engine, some rudimentary knowledge of assembly code, and a lot of time.

Fano posted:

I've always wanted to know if it was possible to make a mod that would show your current chance of spawning an angel/devil room on your HUD, is this possible?

Not exactly a mod, just an external little window, but here you go: Devil room chance display

# ? Jul 10, 2015 15:47

eleven extra elephants: Feb 16, 2007; Menschliches! Allzumenschliches!!

4DKH MX72

Bouncy tears run, starts with Rubber Cement and whip worm, then you come across My Reflection, chocolate milk, tiny planet and Ipecac

I didn't take Tiny Planet because I hate it but I took Ipecac and blew myself up almost immediately.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 17:52

Hyphen-ated: Apr 24, 2006; Not to be confused with endash or minus.

HenryEx posted:

Not exactly a mod, just an external little window, but here you go: Devil room chance display

Thanks!
A guy in the isaac speedrunning irc asked me to ask you for the source code to this, are you willing to post it?

# ? Jul 10, 2015 21:06

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Hyphen-ated posted:

Thanks!
A guy in the isaac speedrunning irc asked me to ask you for the source code to this, are you willing to post it?

It's basically just a LUA script put into CheatEngine's "Make a trainer" feature. I'm not a coder, so i can't make actual programs. :v:

I can post the LUA script i'm using, but it's really only good to see what offsets in memory i check for values.

I tried to improve the program a little bit, gave it an actual icon and made the text color change - it's default light blue for when a door can still spawn on this floor, it becomes dark red when it can't spawn anymore (seen it already and let it despawn) and it's light green when you have Goat Head and the percentage is meaningless.
I also tried to make the window stay on top, but unsuccessfully... as i said, not actually a coder, just someone with access to internet tutorials.
(It's still on the same link.)

The program mimics the game in chance calculation exactly and reads the same values, but it doesn't know what influences those values! So if you ever see the chance increase on a floor without doing any of the list i posted, you found a new way to improve the devil chances.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 21:17

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

Dias posted:

I got Krumpus' Head like that once. One from Greed, one from the Devil Room fight.

Speaking of which. Heretic mod boss rush hilarity:

HenryEx posted:

Not exactly a mod, just an external little window, but here you go: Devil room chance display

This is great.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 21:20

Fano: Oct 20, 2010

HenryEx posted:

It's basically just a LUA script put into CheatEngine's "Make a trainer" feature. I'm not a coder, so i can't make actual programs.
I can post the LUA script i'm using, but it's really only good to see what offsets in memory i check for values.

I tried to improve the program a little bit, gave it an actual icon and made the text color change - it's default light blue for when a door can still spawn on this floor, it becomes dark red when it can't spawn anymore (seen it already and let it despawn) and it's light green when you have Goat Head and the percentage is meaningless.
I also tried to make the window stay on top, but unsuccessfully... as i said, not actually a coder, just someone with access to internet tutorials.
(It's still on the same link.)

The program mimics the game in chance calculation exactly and reads the same values, but it doesn't know what influences those values! So if you ever see the chance increase on a floor without doing any of the list i posted, you found a new way to improve the devil chances.

Thanks a bunch, do I need cheat engine installed for this? I know it's an exe but when I double click it it's asking me what program I want to use to open up a .cettrainer file.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 23:23

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Fano posted:

Thanks a bunch, do I need cheat engine installed for this? I know it's an exe but when I double click it it's asking me what program I want to use to open up a .cettrainer file.

Hm, i guess so - Cheat Engine has two modes to compile a trainer, Tiny and Gigantic. I used Tiny to keep the file size low, but it seems like you need CE installed to use these kinds of trainers then.

I've compiled it again, as a Gigantic trainer, which should include the neccessary standalone code from Cheat Engine (and makes the thing ~4 MB big). It would be great if you could download it again and tell me if it works now without Cheat Engine installed.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 23:34

Jibo: May 22, 2007; Bear Witness; College Slice

HenryEx posted:

Hm, i guess so - Cheat Engine has two modes to compile a trainer, Tiny and Gigantic. I used Tiny to keep the file size low, but it seems like you need CE installed to use these kinds of trainers then.

I've compiled it again, as a Gigantic trainer, which should include the neccessary standalone code from Cheat Engine (and makes the thing ~4 MB big). It would be great if you could download it again and tell me if it works now without Cheat Engine installed.

It seems like this counts red heart damage from curse room doors and blood banks which I'm pretty sure don't count against you when getting the door to appears. Either way this is still a good tool to have.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 23:50

Fano: Oct 20, 2010

HenryEx posted:

Hm, i guess so - Cheat Engine has two modes to compile a trainer, Tiny and Gigantic. I used Tiny to keep the file size low, but it seems like you need CE installed to use these kinds of trainers then.

I've compiled it again, as a Gigantic trainer, which should include the neccessary standalone code from Cheat Engine (and makes the thing ~4 MB big). It would be great if you could download it again and tell me if it works now without Cheat Engine installed.

It works now, thanks.

Jibo posted:

It seems like this counts red heart damage from curse room doors and blood banks which I'm pretty sure don't count against you when getting the door to appears. Either way this is still a good tool to have.

I noticed this too.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 00:04

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Jibo posted:

It seems like this counts red heart damage from curse room doors and blood banks which I'm pretty sure don't count against you when getting the door to appears. Either way this is still a good tool to have.

This tool checks exactly the same variables in memory as the current game's code when trying to spawn a devil room - which means, it doesn't look for "did the player ever take red heart damage from these sources", it just checks for "was this variable at location x ever set to True?". The tool doesn't actually know what influences said variables, just that if they are set, the game will increase/decrease the chance by a certain amount.

So, if the game sets said variable to True on entering curse rooms or doing blood donation, you can be pretty sure it'll count against getting a devil room. :shrug:

Due to the way it works, you can even test for what does or doesn't increase the chance, as long as it's not at 100% already. Does bombing the donation machine increase the chance? I don't know, i didn't test for that, but the tool checks all relevant variables in the game's memory, so if they're modified, the tool will display that!
(This is how i found out about the shopkeepers, had it running, bombed one of them, the chance increased)

# ? Jul 11, 2015 00:07

Vic Boss: Jan 19, 2007; You're pretty good.

I believe red heart damage from curse rooms does indeed lower your devil room chance, but blood bank/devil beggar/portable blood bag do not lower your chances.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 00:07

jackofarcades: Sep 2, 2011; Okay, I'll admit it took me a bit to get into it... But I think I kinda love this!! I'm Spider-Man!! I'm actually Spider-Man!! HA!

Vic Boss posted:

I believe red heart damage from curse rooms does indeed lower your devil room chance, but blood bank/devil beggar/portable blood bag do not lower your chances.

This is true.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 14:43

HenryEx: Mar 25, 2009; ...your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call "a body"...; Grimey Drawer

Yeah, just tested with blood bank and the portable IV bag, it doesn't decrease the chance.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 14:52

MrL_JaKiri: Sep 23, 2003; A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Jibo posted:

It seems like this counts red heart damage from curse room doors and blood banks which I'm pretty sure don't count against you when getting the door to appears. Either way this is still a good tool to have.

Curse rooms just damage you normally, it's only things that take red hearts over soul hearts that don't affect the devil door.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 14:56

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# ? May 15, 2024 13:32

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Beans is loving impossible.

# ? Jul 11, 2015 19:24

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > The Binding of Isaac: Repentance - You made a shit of piece with your trash Issac

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