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Fangz posted:It's not. It's more a metaphor for the internet. Crowds is a creative and expressive tool unlike guns, and the point is that it is increasingly omnipresent in its use and very anonymising. I was half-trolling, but what I was getting at is that CROWDS transforms the internet into potentially a physical weapon. It makes VAPE 100% correct: if you provide weapons to everybody without a screening process, you shouldn't be surprised if somebody decides to use that weapon to kill somebody. Mind you, the whole thing being based on the internet as a means for people to anonymously affect other people from anywhere brings it back around to a more grounded debate about freedom of the internet and the flow of information. How beneficial is anonymity on the internet for providing a safe forum of discussion, versus how harmful is it that people using the internet for unsavory purposes are able to remain anonymous? In both cases, you have somebody weaponizing something, and it's ultimately a question of whether we are better off with or without something that empowers everybody, including those who maybe shouldn't be allowed to have power.
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Jul 14, 2015 13:17
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Aleksei Vasiliev posted:I am glad they didn't change the name because I like hearing "Gatcha!" It's pretty fun, yeah. So I just finished Crowds and I'm glad O.D isn't dead. Was a good series though so I'm definitely going to have to keep up with the second season now.
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Jul 14, 2015 13:29
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Nuebot posted:So I just finished Crowds and I'm glad O.D isn't dead.  This is the universal reaction to finishing season 1.
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Jul 14, 2015 14:42
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deadly_pudding posted:I was half-trolling, but what I was getting at is that CROWDS transforms the internet into potentially a physical weapon. It makes VAPE 100% correct: if you provide weapons to everybody without a screening process, you shouldn't be surprised if somebody decides to use that weapon to kill somebody. My issue with this claim is that it hasn't happened yet. There's been minor cases of theft and such which are easy to deal with, but no one has mentioned a lethal or dangerous CROWDS incident that wasn't VAPE related. I'll admit that this status quo wouldn't last very long in reality, but in that universe it has and VAPE is deliberately shaking the boat. And it's not as if there is no capacity of dealing with rogue CROWDS, or a deterrent for doing so. deadly_pudding posted:It is a metaphor for gun control No gun rights argument has ever held up for me. One thing people like to say a lot is that if we ban guns we would have to ban knives too because they are also deadly weapons. That's a stupid argument because knives have a multitude of uses while guns have only the one purpose (hunting for food is a special case). People also say that it's people that kill people and that guns are only tools, but a lot of people only kill people because guns make it so drat easy. CROWDS are more like knives. They are extremely versatile tools that have the potential to be dangerous. VAPE wants to show that CROWDS are inherently dangerous, like a gun, but they're trying to prove that by intentionally making their CROWDS do bad things. You could argue "But guns only do bad things if they are used to do a bad thing too," but guns can only be used to do bad things, so it's just a question of whether you use the gun or not. That doesn't apply to CROWDS since they can be used for good purposes. ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 14, 2015 |
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Jul 14, 2015 14:50
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Phobophilia posted:On that note, I have a suspicion that Hajime is going to get a rude awakening at some point. S1 spent alot of time focusing on Hajime, and she always took care to explain and articulate her madcap logic. This season, they're not explaining it in as much detail. Instead, we have that odd gray unchanging bubble over Hajime's head, and Tsubasa making frequent glances at Hajime's face, trying to read her expression. But she's not getting an answer. Tsubasa trusts in Hajime's decisions, she wants to trust in Hajime's decisions, but Hajime might just be over her head. I could buy that as a direction the show might go, but has she made any controversial decisions this season? She's just been playing the role of celebrity/senpai. Everything she's done so far has been pretty common sense: fighting folks that are actively being a menace, being nice to strangers, calming folks down. Actually, the more I think on it, the more I think it wouldn't make sense for the show to take that tack. Hajime embodies a spirit of kindness and communication, and it would be very odd of the show to call those ideals into question.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:01
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Yes_Cantaloupe posted:I could buy that as a direction the show might go, but has she made any controversial decisions this season? She's just been playing the role of celebrity/senpai. Everything she's done so far has been pretty common sense: fighting folks that are actively being a menace, being nice to strangers, calming folks down. Possible things that can turn out to be bad calls by Hajime: 1. Not really offering Tsubasa any real guidance or leadership 2. Not being a lot more suspicious of Gel-Sadra and her motives/abilities 3. Long term taking in Berg Katze and still retaining a frontline leadership role. (We've seen her taking a break a couple of times to keep Katze under control, maybe this might happen and distract her at a critical time) 4. Kinda not keeping tabs on the whole VAPE situation, Rui is sorta the Crowds system's single point of failure, and she should never have let VAPE get to him I guess the main thing is that in S1 Hajime was a lot more pro-active, and also clever in figuring out Berg Katze and the Crowds. She seems less in control of events in S2. Much more reactive, anyway.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:07
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aren't they already casting some shadows on her though? she's one of the two people we've seen with a gray bubble and last episode Gel gave it a weird (concerned?) look. i don't think it necessarily means she's getting a rude awakening, but there's definitely something up with her this season.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:08
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The funny thing about this show is that any kind of mistake that Hajime could make they can just have Rui make instead and not upset the show's balance.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:11
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I think the significance of the gray bubble lies with who she shares that trait with, but I don't think there's enough information yet to say if having one is bad or just different/outside the norm. I wouldn't be surprised if a few more showed up so that we could start getting a picture of what they mean -- is it simply a representation of that person's detachment, showing that they aren't influenced by the group's mood? That's what it feels like to me right now.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:18
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Everything Burrito posted:I think the significance of the gray bubble lies with who she shares that trait with, but I don't think there's enough information yet to say if having one is bad or just different/outside the norm. I wouldn't be surprised if a few more showed up so that we could start getting a picture of what they mean -- is it simply a representation of that person's detachment, showing that they aren't influenced by the group's mood? That's what it feels like to me right now. I don't think the grey bubble is gonna be a bad thing either, but if the stated goal of Gel is to have everyone's bubbles be the same colour then people like Hajime can't help but be an obstacle to that.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:34
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Makes sense that Gel would be concerned about it as well if that's the case.
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Jul 14, 2015 15:53
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The op has some monsters in it that resemble Gel's bubbles. I'm curious to see if that's some kind of accidental transformation, or if Gel does a devastating heel turn 
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Jul 14, 2015 16:20
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I don't think Gel is malicious, but I'm not sure she's particularly good for humanity either.
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Jul 14, 2015 16:34
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deadly_pudding posted:The op has some monsters in it that resemble Gel's bubbles. I'm curious to see if that's some kind of accidental transformation, or if Gel does a devastating heel turn Incidentally the Big Bad's second in command in Gatchaman 2 was called Gelsadra.
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Jul 14, 2015 16:42
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Gel is clearly going to be the bad guy. Red CROWDS is a feint
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Jul 14, 2015 16:44
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In Training posted:Gel is clearly going to be the bad guy. Red CROWDS is a feint Oh yea like the MESS was.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:15
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The Devil Tesla posted:Oh yea like the MESS was. Except the MESS were shown to be bad guys first. Clearly Gel is going to be the reverse. Seriously, the Red Emotion bubbles and laughing monster things seem pretty ominous.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:41
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I dunno, MESS was a vehicle for displaying the Gatchaman's lovely ideology and displaying Hajime's personality (which is the same reason why she implicitly trusts Gel, its the exact same behaviour as she showed with MESS.) And the VAPE dude has too much personality to just be poofed out of being a issue like MESS was. Doesn't mean its not a feint, but if it is then its much more of a longcon then this show did before.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:42
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The VAPE dude has been on screen for approx 2 minutes, I bet he joins them by episode 6 to fight against Gel.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:45
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He probably fights her and her unification desire separately from the Gatchaman's efforts/
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Jul 14, 2015 18:49
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Whatever happens there better be a freaking beach episode this season.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:57
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My (probably incorrect) guess is that VAPE causes enough discord that it upsets Gel causing her to switch from wanting everyone to get along to somehow forcing everyone's emotions to align. I still don't think she'll be actively evil though so it'll work out before much harm is done.
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Jul 14, 2015 18:57
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In Training posted:Whatever happens there better be a freaking beach episode this season. wait for the ova you thirsty gently caress
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Jul 14, 2015 19:11
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but yeah gel is obviously going evil, i mean come on
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Jul 14, 2015 19:12
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Davincie posted:wait for the ova you thirsty gently caress There's gonna be an OVA? Cool
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Jul 14, 2015 19:12
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dunno
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Jul 14, 2015 19:13
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I don't even want them to be wearing bikinis and speedos, I want them to all be in gatcha form horsing around in the shallows of a beach
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Jul 14, 2015 19:13
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Davincie posted:dunno Die, troll.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:14
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i want utsu in a bikini!!!
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Jul 14, 2015 19:15
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like that would ever happen
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Jul 14, 2015 19:19
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a kitten posted:My (probably incorrect) guess is that VAPE causes enough discord that it upsets Gel causing her to switch from wanting everyone to get along to somehow forcing everyone's emotions to align. I still don't think she'll be actively evil though so it'll work out before much harm is done. This actually sounds pretty likely. Like, Gel usually visits planets that are on the verge of peace anyway and gives them a little final bump in the right direction, maybe? I could see the outbreak of a full-on VAPE attack with like military force, like in episode Zero, really freaking her out and forcing her to put her foot down. I'm pretty sure that wind demon that she came of the ship as is her true form, and she looks the way she currently does by way of some mimicry power.
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Jul 14, 2015 19:24
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a beach episode would be good, because Sugane would be even more shy around Jou. also i want to see what OD would wear.
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Jul 14, 2015 20:35
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dogsicle posted:a beach episode would be good, because Sugane would be even more shy around Jou. also i want to see what OD would wear. It's a 50/50 chance between: ridiculous bedazzled speedo, or ironic full-body 1920s-style one piece in horizontal stripes.
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Jul 14, 2015 20:51
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deadly_pudding posted:It's a 50/50 chance between: ridiculous bedazzled speedo, or ironic full-body 1920s-style one piece in horizontal stripes. I would guess the latter. The more important question is what will Rui wear
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Jul 14, 2015 21:19
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skin tight speedo with bulge and big fake tits in a bikini top
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Jul 14, 2015 21:20
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i can no longer imagine him without a feather boa and some sort of hat
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Jul 14, 2015 21:42
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Phobophilia posted:I'm not familiar with the original Gatchaman, but Crowds is a response to superhero stories in general. It is critical of the secrecy and lack of accountability of superheroes, as well as their assumptions that they innately know better than everyone else. hahahahaha what? No, seriously, I think you're misremembering the first season. Hajime spent like six episodes as a mysterious magical being who always seemed to know what to do, with only momentary comments to explain any of what she's thinking ("Galax is great, but Galax isn't good"). This is why Sugane spends so much time initially exasperated with her, because she doesn't seem to make any sense. She's smart enough to skip steps and we're never allowed into her head, so she's a cipher. One of Sugane's moments of character development comes after she first talks to Rui, when he first thinks to actually ask why Hajime did something (revealing the existence of Gatchamen to the public, I think it was?). She explains, Sugane says "you thought about it that deeply?" and her response is something along the lines of, "Of course. I wouldn't just do things without thinking about it first." And Sugane is surprised, because Hajime is really bad at explaining why she does things. She's a genius with immense perception and terrible communication, and the first season character dynamics are about the other Gatchamen coming to understand and trust her. Hajime's behavior so far is incredibly typical Hajime. If anything, she's mellowed out and become a little more transparent now that the writers no longer see a reason to keep her mysterious.
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Jul 14, 2015 22:39
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Jul 15, 2015 01:09
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hahahahaha
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Jul 15, 2015 01:12
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