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Sir Kodiak posted:My guess is that Genisys is actually a later iteration in which Skynet has purposefully set up the resistance to seem to win and then do the post-win time travel stuff it's supposed to do – that, as SMG points out, has to happen – as easily as possible so that it can then infect John Connor and actually win. That's why it produces the timeline from T1, but this time with John knowing the future: a guy who spent a decade leading a war based on essentially precognition isn't going to be ready to defend against an attack wildly outside the bounds of what he knows is coming. It's the Disneyland on-rails version of the resistance to get Connor past the point where his destiny to send Kyle Reese back has been fulfilled: that's why the resistance is well fed, well muscled, and generally pretty content, in contrast with what we saw from Kyle in T1. Not discounting that, either. I think something that maybe stands being brought up is that Kyle was somehow to relate to Sarah something like 22 years of future wars enough for John to have as much detailed info as he has. It sort of, to me, maybe hints that in the pre-Genisys 1984 that he and Sarah were maybe on the run longer, he was able to give her more prep to become the legendary soldier to train John more directly and that the events of T2 never happened. It always sort of felt to me that John's presumed big leg up was that he was ahead of the curve on the big things thanks the Kyle in 1984: He knew there would be a war, he knew there would be machines and infiltration units, he knew there would be a time machine, he knew Kyle Reese was important, etc. In Genisys, it seems like they're sort of implying that his details of the future were a LOT more specific and widespread. It makes me sort of wonder if in that version of the timeline Kyle and Sarah were on the run longer, he had more time prepare her (and John) for the future war with more detailed information, etc. I'm trying hard not to go all fanficky in this thread when dealing with the Terminator and the time travel stuff, even though I believe there's big enough holes in the timeline and alternative theories to make several speculative ideas seem plausible. Immortan posted:I don't see any release dates set in China for Terminator Genisys. Doesn't China government film body dissuade films or TV shows with a time-travel theme to them?
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Jul 15, 2015 07:57
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Stairmaster posted:dude you could have just typed "I have poo poo-taste" to save time. i'll be back, come with me if you want to live GET DOWN DUAGH. because that's all you ever want.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:00
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I actually kind of want the next movie to just get rid of Kyle Reese. He was definitely the weakest part about this movie.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:23
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Burkion posted:Not just the photos either- the drawings she made as a child. I get what they were going for, but it just felt sort of clumsy in how it was handled. Keeping in mind, too, I seem to recall some of the early leaks of the film when it was going over Pops being Sarah's caregiver that there was talk that Pops knew Sarah needed to have a 'relatively' normal emotional development through childhood and intentionally went through the effort of learning parenting skills for that purpose. If not for the way the movie is structured, I'd sort of maybe think Pops/Sarah relationship might have benefited some from exploring Sarah's years with Pops prior to 1984.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:27
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drat if that isn't the premise for an amazing early 90s fish-out-of-water comedy. Kindergarten Cop-era Arnie and Drew Barrymore would've slayed it.
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Jul 15, 2015 08:49
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A Terminator 'wants' to fulfill its mission objectives and also has the capability to learn. If something is necessary to help fulfill its mission objectives, the Terminator will learn it. Pops had the mission objective to, presumably, take care of and be a father to Sarah Connor. So, he did the best he could. Going back to T2, though, it's clear that while Terminators can 'know' why people do what they do, they're missing some sort of similar qualia - first-hand knowledge of what it means to be sad or a parent or so on. Pops is what the T2 Arnie - Uncle Bob - might have become if he didn't sacrifice himself.
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Jul 15, 2015 09:01
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JediTalentAgent posted:Doesn't China government film body dissuade films or TV shows with a time-travel theme to them?
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Jul 15, 2015 09:02
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Xenomrph posted:Can someone confirm if this is true? Because if so, I have to know their reasoning behind it. It is absolutely true. quote:China doesn't want to go back to the future or the past: The Chinese government has banned any depiction of time travel in TV shows and films because the plot element "disrespects history."
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Jul 15, 2015 09:11
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That's hilarious. I had my own wacky ideas on why they'd ban it (that citizens might get the idea to build a real life time machine somehow, and then change the past and gently caress with the government) but the real reason is pretty entertaining, too. Although the thought that a bunch of Chinese citizens have never enjoyed the Terminator movies or Back to the Future makes me kinda sad. 
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Jul 15, 2015 09:13
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Gonz posted:It is absolutely true. That's really weird when you consider Looper was partially filmed and released in China.
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Jul 15, 2015 09:39
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Xenomrph posted:That's hilarious. I had my own wacky ideas on why they'd ban it (that citizens might get the idea to build a real life time machine somehow, and then change the past and gently caress with the government) but the real reason is pretty entertaining, too. Im sure the bootleg/pirating capital of the world will find a way to see any of those movies if they want to
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Jul 15, 2015 09:45
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zVxTeflon posted:Im sure the bootleg/pirating capital of the world will find a way to see any of those movies if they want to 
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Jul 15, 2015 09:48
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Some Terminator connoisseurs in this thread. Like almost everyone else I thought it was OK, but I went in with very low expectations. I got what I expected and, to be honest, they've probably made the best Terminator they could have. It was never going to be a masterpiece. Terminator peaked with 2. Also, Shirley Manson is the best Terminator by far. Few things I haven't seen mentioned; Sarah and Kyle are having an argument before travelling forward in time, she says something to the effect of "You just thought you'd come back here and impregnate me with the future leader of the resistance?" he doesn't react and I took it as he had already guessed he was John's father. Later in the movie when John shows up they talk about it and Kyle acts as if he had no idea. So many plot holes, but ultimately it didn't matter. Actually I suppose my nitpick would be that there was a general feeling that nothing really mattered, things keep changing so much that nothing seems to really stick. If they fail maybe someone can just send back a good terminator to before Sarah's parents were killed to prevent that from happening and the whole timeline will change again or something. Also, I like the idea of Skynet learning the value of human life and ultimately sending a terminator back to kill itself. Terminators seem to be able to learn things so it stands to reason that if Skynet keeps learning and evolving it might change its mind once it's sufficiently "human". I suspect this is where these new movies are going because John certainly seemed to be trying to suggest he was different and neither man nor machine. Maybe John has become part machine but perhaps some of his humanness also rubs off on Skynet? I dunno. And yeah, Jai Courtney isn't the best actor in the world but wow 
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Jul 15, 2015 09:48
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Spacebump posted:That's really weird when you consider Looper was partially filmed and released in China. Yeah, but in Looper, everyone was like "In the future, China is a great place and you should avoid places like Europe. Move to China.", so they might've made an exception.
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Jul 15, 2015 09:49
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Also it was because the Chinese government was unhappy about how a whole load of Chinese TV shows had plots about going back to ancient china, interacting with historical figures, changing history, and incorporating various fantasy/mystical elements into history. They reckoned it was "disrespectful to history" and the lives of the real historical figures. And these were guidelines for writers of Chinese TV shows - "adhere to these rules or we might cancel your show". I don't think they implemented a ban on pre-existing time travel shows and movies that would be readily available in millions of Chinese people's DVD and blu ray collections. Sure they might be big on censorship, but they aren't gonna try and track down the gazillions of copies of Terminator and Back to the Future. As for Looper... the entire film is set in the future. Even the "present" is actually the future. And its a bunch of criminals doing it, and all they accomplish is screwing over their own lives or the lives of other criminals. No disrespect to history. (And the fact that the film says "don't go to Europe, it's the only place doing OK in the future" certainly doesn't hurt.) I wonder what the situation will be with Genisys. It's actively about changing history, and a significant chunk takes place in 1984. But since its set in America, and the only history that is getting changed is fictional events from previous movies (rather than messing with the lives of real-life people), they might allow it. I wonder if they consider these things on a case-by-case basis.
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Jul 15, 2015 10:18
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MonoAus posted:she says something to the effect of "You just thought you'd come back here and impregnate me with the future leader of the resistance?" I'm pretty sure she said no such thing except to Pops.
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Jul 15, 2015 13:21
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Finally saw it and I was pretty surprised by how much I liked it. It's definitely better than the last two sequels. If they would made the tone of the film a little darker, and cut out the dumb slapstick stuff it could have been elite.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:38
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CelticPredator posted:i'll be back, come with me if you want to live GET DOWN DUAGH. Yes I'd much prefer a version of Terminator that removes all the central characters, actors, story, and themes Did you check out Mean Girls yet
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Jul 15, 2015 21:54
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JediTalentAgent posted:Doesn't China government film body dissuade films or TV shows with a time-travel theme to them? "In mid-April 2011, the Chinese government prohibited on TV, films, and novels all stories that contain alternate reality or time travel. This is a good sign for China. These people still dream about alternatives, so you have to prohibit this dreaming. Here, we don’t need a prohibition because the ruling system has even oppressed our capacity to dream. Look at the movies that we see all the time. It’s easy to imagine the end of the world. An asteroid destroying all life and so on. But you cannot imagine the end of capitalism." -Slavoj Zizek
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Jul 15, 2015 21:56
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Hbomberguy posted:Yes I'd much prefer a version of Terminator that removes all the central characters, actors, story, and themes Yes I like Mean Girls fine. I just want a Terminator film devoid of call backs to other movies. You can throw in Arnie, and Skynet, but do some new poo poo with it instead of having to keep time hopping back to 1985, or 1995, or anything before 2020. I want purple laser future wars for 2 hours, is what I'm saying. No one has done that yet! Now is the time to give it a go.
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Jul 15, 2015 21:59
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CelticPredator posted:I want purple laser future wars for 2 hours, is what I'm saying. No one has done that yet! Now is the time to give it a go. I was so mad that Salvation wasn't that.
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Jul 15, 2015 22:06
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Lurdiak posted:I was so mad that Salvation wasn't that. I would totally be down with a do over of Salvation where it's actually involving purple lasers and still has Terry Crews, Common, Michael Ironside, etc. in it. Most wasted cast ever.
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Jul 15, 2015 22:35
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"I don't want my Terminator movies full of 'callbacks', I just want it to entirely be the dream sequences from the first 2-3 movies stretched 160 minutes"
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Jul 15, 2015 23:05
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ruby idiot railed posted:"I don't want my Terminator movies full of 'callbacks', I just want it to entirely be the dream sequences from the first 2-3 movies stretched 160 minutes"
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Jul 16, 2015 00:59
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I think a Future War movie could work if it was an anthology. It wouldn't ever happen though.
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Jul 16, 2015 01:16
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ruby idiot railed posted:I'm pretty sure she said no such thing except to Pops. I guess I'll have to wait for a rewatch. It was during the argument about whether to go to 1997 or 2017. If nobody else caught it though I suppose I'm wrong.
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Jul 16, 2015 02:18
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Spacebump posted:That's really weird when you consider Looper was partially filmed and released in China. Terminator Genisys has a chinese pop star on the soundtrack and a Chinese actor playing the T-1000 ffs and they're still not releasing it there?
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Jul 16, 2015 05:19
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I'm still not really sure why the consensus seems to be that T3 is bad. Is being campy bad?
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Jul 16, 2015 05:37
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I'm still not really sure why the consensus seems to be that T3 is bad. Is being campy bad? Apocalypse movies (reminder, amounting to 10 of the top 30 box office movies in 2014) require a certain level of decorum. Violating this rule is grounds for Nerd Hate. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 05:46
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I've always had a feeling that in several franchises the third film is where they to start veering off into camp, comedy, goofiness, etc. At the very least, they start to be a bit less serious with the material. I know there are exceptions to this rule, though. Terminator 3 seemed to feature a lot of scenes played for laughs, to my recollection, which given the more serious tone of T1 an T2 maybe makes it feel more like a satire of a Terminator film concept.
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Jul 16, 2015 05:52
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I'm still not really sure why the consensus seems to be that T3 is bad. Is being campy bad? I still like T3. Arguably it shits on the theme of the first two movies but it's genuinely a fun movie, not in a stupid way. It has yuks.
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Jul 16, 2015 05:52
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:I'm still not really sure why the consensus seems to be that T3 is bad. Is being campy bad? Goon hyperbole. Also the crane chase in T3 was Fury Road levels of tits.
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Jul 16, 2015 06:05
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Neo Rasa posted:I would totally be down with a do over of Salvation where it's actually involving purple lasers and still has Terry Crews, Common, Michael Ironside, etc. in it. Most wasted cast ever. I know Christian Bale's rep has taken a hit after the third Batman, but the guy is capable of some stellar performances, and he would have been a pretty drat good John Connor with a script that wasn't made of garbage, in my opinion.
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Jul 16, 2015 06:10
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Lurdiak posted:I know Christian Bale's rep has taken a hit after the third Batman, but the guy is capable of some stellar performances, and he would have been a pretty drat good John Connor with a script that wasn't made of garbage, in my opinion. Bale may have caused the script to be ruined by demanding rewrites and that John Connor has a bigger role in the film.
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Jul 16, 2015 06:15
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T3 is pretty good in general. Better than Gensys both as a movie and as a Terminator film. It had a Terminator punch through someone to drive a car. RELAX. We will meet again. That ending was a great gently caress you. The crane scene was just demolishing stuff. It was fun and funny without most of the stupid Gensys has. The characters worked. Yeah, it's not a great work like T1 and 2, but it is closer to them than 4/5 is.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:14
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ruby idiot railed posted:"I don't want my Terminator movies full of 'callbacks', I just want it to entirely be the dream sequences from the first 2-3 movies stretched 160 minutes" The only good part of Genysis was the opening, so yeah. You know how many stories you can tell in that world? New characters. New themes. New visuals. New Terminators. New pretty much everything outside of Future War and Purple Lasers. Why do we keep going back to the same story? With the same characters? I don't know. It's loving beyond me.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:19
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Basebf555 posted:I think a Future War movie could work if it was an anthology. It wouldn't ever happen though.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:38
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Even if you HAD to have Arnold in some capacity in a Future War set of movies to draw an audience, it could even work with 'old Arnie' as a new actual human soldier character who would be tragically fated to eventually be captured/killed by Skynet and his appearance used as a genetic/physical template to build the 101 line off of. I think one of the spin-off terminator books actually used something similar to that as a concept, anyway.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:52
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JediTalentAgent posted:Even if you HAD to have Arnold in some capacity in a Future War set of movies to draw an audience, it could even work with 'old Arnie' as a new actual human soldier character who would be tragically fated to eventually be captured/killed by Skynet and his appearance used as a genetic/physical template to build the 101 line off of.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:57
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The future war is actually insanely boring, unless you include the Salvation/Genisys twist that something's wrong and things aren't happening the way they 'should'. The idea of just slaughtering bad robots gives you Avengers 2: the awful one.
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Jul 16, 2015 08:02
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