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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Basically, gay rights in Africa are still at the "explaining what the gently caress homosexuality is" stage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQbZDwV0w
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Jul 15, 2015 18:05
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Brannock posted:We're very likely to get Bush vs Clinton in the general, which means that since 1988 6 out of 8 elected terms have been held by two families. If this was anywhere else in the world we'd be denouncing it as a clear example of oligarchic tyranny. The Bush family seems like a dynasty, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how so many people have become convinced that the Clintons qualify. Is it Fox news or something?
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Jul 15, 2015 18:06
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Basically, gay rights in Africa are still at the "explaining what the gently caress homosexuality is" stage. Except in the areas where it's still as normal as it has been for millennia.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:09
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ElrondHubbard posted:The Bush family seems like a dynasty, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how so many people have become convinced that the Clintons are a dynasty. Is it Fox news or something? Some of it is definitely the conservative narrative about the Clintons just bleeding into general society, but I don't see why most of it, especially on the left, wouldn't come from a genuine idealism about the American political process and the ways in which democracy should function. Frankly I can't begrudge a person the latter, even if I do disagree in this case.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:10
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Kor posted:Some of it is definitely the conservative narrative about the Clintons just bleeding into general society, but I don't see why most of it, especially on the left, wouldn't come from a genuine idealism about the American political process and the ways in which democracy should function. Which is funny because many of these same people would love to have Bill (legally) come back to be President for ages. I guess they just prefer one candidate to be popularly re-elected.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:11
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ElrondHubbard posted:The Bush family seems like a dynasty, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how so many people have become convinced that the Clintons qualify. Is it Fox news or something? Hillary Clinton is married to a man who used to be President, ergo she is a dynastic candidate. I don't think it makes sense, personally, as for a true dynasty you need a blood relation. I guess as a political dynasty it does, but for political dynasties you could do much, much worse than the Clintons.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:12
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Powered Descent posted:That's utterly hilarious, but what's the story behind this image's origin? Did Trump's people just do a GIS for "soldier" and not bother making sure they got the right kind? Or do trolls who know EXACTLY what they're doing pose as supporters and email this kind of thing unsolicited to the campaign, in the hopes it'll get used? Someone apparently tracked down the stock photo guy: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/07/insane-story-behind-trumps-nazi-tweet "I have photos of American soldiers as well," Cairns said. "But for some reason, politicians seem to be downloading Nazis." "I tried to keyword it carefully so people would be aware that it's WWII fascists." Supposedly the keywords for that photo are: "Armed Forces, World War II, German Culture, Marching, War, Walking, Fascism, Work Helmet, Battlefield, Camouflage, Gun, Uniform, Conflict, Camouflage Clothing, Historical Reenactment, Equipment, Five People, Rifle"
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Jul 15, 2015 18:16
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ElrondHubbard posted:The Bush family seems like a dynasty, but I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how so many people have become convinced that the Clintons qualify. Is it Fox news or something? The previous page has already made all the relevant points (and counterpoints), but to respond to this I find the problem with dynasties isn't that people are related by blood or marriage or anything in and of itself, it's that political power is concentrated specifically within a small group.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:20
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computer parts posted:Which is funny because many of these same people would love to have Bill (legally) come back to be President for ages. It gets joked about as a lot as people look back with nostalgia, but in a serious discussion I don't think there would be a lot of actual support for doing away with the 22nd Amendment and having God Emperor Bill. Kor fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jul 15, 2015 |
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Jul 15, 2015 18:20
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I find funny is that people are upset about dynasties in democracies. The whole point is you vote for your leader. If you don't want relatives of previous leaders being elected, vote against them. If they win (supposing they didn't cheat) then that sucks but apparently more people don't give as much a poo poo about the leader's last name as much as you. Sorry, that's how the game works. Sometimes you have to take the lovely end of the stick. If you don't like it, find better sticks next time. I'd rather not see Jeb win, but him getting the nomination is more caused by the GOP having lovely candidates rather than a fault in the system allowing relatives to join the race. Also before anyone asks I'm Canadian and vote ndp.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:22
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quote:The previous page has already made all the relevant points (and counterpoints), but to respond to this I find the problem with dynasties isn't that people are related by blood or marriage or anything in and of itself, it's that political power is concentrated specifically within a small group. You're not wrong that concentration of political power within a small group is not good, but that has less to do with Hillary Clinton's not-even-blood relationship to Bill as it does their position within the upper echelons of society.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:27
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Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:
What's really sad is that using the metric system, he's at -17.8
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Jul 15, 2015 18:30
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The X-man cometh posted:What's really sad is that using the metric system, he's at -17.8 
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Jul 15, 2015 18:33
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The X-man cometh posted:What's really sad is that using the metric system, he's at -17.8
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Jul 15, 2015 18:33
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Mordiceius posted:That debate was complete magic. I need to go rewatch it someday. I've told this story before, but on the day of the debate my Mom and I were going to see a football game. I told her I was worried about the debates because I thought Paul Ryan was going to destroy Biden, and it was important especially after the 1st debate. My Mom looked at me and said "Sal, Biden has been in office for years, he knows how to debate, don't worry he's going to wipe the floor with Ryan." and she couldn't have been more right :-3
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Jul 15, 2015 18:34
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Brannock posted:The previous page has already made all the relevant points (and counterpoints), but to respond to this I find the problem with dynasties isn't that people are related by blood or marriage or anything in and of itself, it's that political power is concentrated specifically within a small group. As a side note, I don't have a name for this but it seems like, while having huge entrenched political operators is kind of a bad thing, they also sort of buttress against other groups? Like the Koch Brothers are pretty much literally running a candidate, and we can probably assume Scott Walker will do whatever they want him to do as President (though they may not have interest in many fields of human endeavor.) If we had somehow combined Citizens United with "every politician is fired, we're starting from scratch at the next election," I think established money would have even more influence than they do.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:40
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Nessus posted:I do think it would be fair to work for disrupting this arrangement (albeit by breaking up established wealth to some extent, removing money from the political process as best we can, etc. rather than some arbitrary law banning consanguinous candidates, which would be easily evaded by the Koch bros. and their ilk) but I don't think it is enough of a principle to make it worth a GOP president in 2016. Considering the GOP candidate would be either Bush (bloodline), Walker (backed by big money), or Trump (is "big" money)... Don't get me wrong I'm going to hold my nose and vote for Clinton in the general and I think nearly everyone in this thread will do the same. I think it's worthwhile, though, to make an effort to remember that she's the wife of a former President and that Bush is the brother and son of two former Presidents, and that we rebelled against a monarchy and refused to institute another one in this country.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:48
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The solution, as always, is to get rid of private campaign finance entirely and have all campaigns run with publicly allotted funds. Banning corporations specifically from donating won't do anything by itself
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Jul 15, 2015 18:50
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Brannock posted:Considering the GOP candidate would be either Bush (bloodline), Walker (backed by big money), or Trump (is "big" money)... Well, thank goodness we limit the chief executive to two terms and wrote checks and balances into the Constitution, then.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:51
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If Mitt Romney had won then he would've legalized polygamy and all of his wives could continue his dynasty!
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Jul 15, 2015 18:52
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Also I don't think it's really possible to remove dynastic aspects and power concentration in the executive with the current presidential system. It's just necessary for a person to have enormous influence and public stature to be elected
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Jul 15, 2015 18:53
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computer parts posted:If Mitt Romney had won then he would've legalized polygamy and all of his wives could continue his dynasty! Better than his son... 
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Jul 15, 2015 18:53
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Alter Ego posted:Well, thank goodness we limit the chief executive to two terms and wrote checks and balances into the Constitution, then. The term limit doesn't mean all that much when Bush is surrounding himself with all the cabinet staff from the Bush and Bush presidencies.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:54
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Brannock posted:The previous page has already made all the relevant points (and counterpoints), but to respond to this I find the problem with dynasties isn't that people are related by blood or marriage or anything in and of itself, it's that political power is concentrated specifically within a small group. It's always been fairly tightly concentrated within a small group.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:55
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computer parts posted:If Mitt Romney had won then he would've legalized polygamy and all of his wives could continue his dynasty! A Romney in every state, a chicken in every pot, and an elevator in every garage. 
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Jul 15, 2015 18:55
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icantfindaname posted:The solution, as always, is to get rid of private campaign finance entirely and have all campaigns run with publicly allotted funds. Banning corporations specifically from donating won't do anything by itself It would also help if we shortened the actual election cycle down.
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Jul 15, 2015 18:56
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computer parts posted:If Mitt Romney had won then he would've legalized polygamy and all of his wives could continue his dynasty! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Mormons are too big on women leaders
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Jul 15, 2015 18:58
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My real fear in the near future after Bushs admin was ending, and before The GFC, was that his advisors and other neo-conmen might just hold the reins on future Republican nominations. Stuff changes quickly, just hope Americans aren't suddenly fickle on Dems, and Hillary's overwhelming primary numbers translates into actual domination of the general election field.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:00
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orange sky posted:Why don't you guys do it, switch to the metric system? Since the UK can't be bothered to go all the way yet like more than 40 years on since they started, why should we? Besides there's already tons of metric only stuff in the US, like nearly all medicine, and a lot of soda.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:01
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Nonsense posted:My real fear in the near future after Bushs admin was ending, and before The GFC, was that his advisors and other neo-conmen might just hold the reins on future Republican nominations. Stuff changes quickly, just hope Americans aren't suddenly fickle on Dems, and Hillary's overwhelming primary numbers translates into actual domination of the general election field. Good news: Barring a catastrophe or sudden Bernmentum, Hillary has a 95% chance of being your next president. Bad news: Americans have been super fickle on Dems in down-ticket races since 2010, and it is exceedingly slim that the Hilldawg will be able to change this dynamic in 2016, so look forward to another do-nothing R-dominated congress.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:11
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:It's always been fairly tightly concentrated within a small group. Don't Bill, Hillary, and Barack all come from fairly modest backgrounds?
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Jul 15, 2015 19:14
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orange sky posted:Why don't you guys do it, switch to the metric system? I wouldn't mind switching as long as we stuck to fahrenheit.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:19
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Sir Kodiak posted:Don't Bill, Hillary, and Barack all come from fairly modest backgrounds? I think out of all of them Hillary has come from the wealthiest family actually.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:19
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sudo rm -rf posted:I wouldn't mind switching as long as we stuck to fahrenheit. Kilos would be the easiest switch because it's more or less just doubling pounds.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:20
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I hope Obama uses his last year to push for metric, just to see Republicans melt down defending our good, honest American measurements. We've always said Republicans would fight Obama over literally anything, let's put it to the test.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:23
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A Winner is Jew posted:I think out of all of them Hillary has come from the wealthiest family actually. Her father was certainly successful, but I'm curious if mid-sized textile manufacturers qualify as part of the "small group" in which power is "fairly tightly concentrated." Like, are the people making drapes for hotels part of the oligarchy we're worried about.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:24
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The X-man cometh posted:What's really sad is that using the metric system, he's at -17.8 I thought polls were already metric; they only go 0-100.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:24
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computer parts posted:Kilos would be the easiest switch because it's more or less just doubling pounds. as an olympic lifting enthusiast, it's 2.2, thanks.
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Jul 15, 2015 19:25
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Trumpism would be the perfect ideology for a third party
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Jul 15, 2015 19:25
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sudo rm -rf posted:I wouldn't mind switching as long as we stuck to fahrenheit. gently caress it, switch everything to Metric, start measuring temperature in Kelvin  Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I hope Obama uses his last year to push for metric, just to see Republicans melt down defending our good, honest American measurements. We've always said Republicans would fight Obama over literally anything, let's put it to the test. He's gonna suspend the elections until we fully join the civilized world 
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Jul 15, 2015 19:26
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