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Wezlar posted:I haven't tried out the new patch but from the patch notes and the reaction it sounds like instead of balancing the bad classes the game was just made way more tedious?
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Jul 18, 2015 05:22
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Wezlar posted:I haven't tried out the new patch but from the patch notes and the reaction it sounds like instead of balancing the bad classes the game was just made way more tedious? Try it out for yourself, draw your own conclusions?  'IMO, it's no harder. People just haven't changed their strategies to compensate for the corpses, so they're getting pissy when they loose. (the secret is diversification  )
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Jul 18, 2015 05:26
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The balance that happened was that basically the best strategy was all damage, all the time. In addition, against most enemy compositions it was better to just plow through guys in rank 1 or 2 instead of using other skills, the exceptions being large 2-space high hp enemies. So adding the corpse mechanic weakens that basic attack plan, because it'll take you an extra turn to clear them, letting the surviving enemies get more damage/stress in. They also made DOTs clear corpses, which buffed those classes, which tended to be the weaker ones. Plague doctor's shuffle skill (already a good one) also clears all corpses now, giving one solution to the problem. Basically they nerfed the strongest strategy, which encourages you to use other ones. For example, if you're fighting 4 dudes and you shove a short range guy into slot 4, he can't attack. If you don't clear the corpses, he will just have to sit in rank 4 passing until you kill him. I sort of expect this to lead them to giving corpses a certain number of turns before fading. The only real legitimate issue with corpses is missing them with attacks, they're already taking a turn to clear so they should just take the hit. Torches seem to be people's new "Onyxia deep breathes more" thing, since they're still functioning the same as before.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:40
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There are abilities that clear the entire field of corpses so the corpse stuff is really lost on me. Even the poor Leper can clear the entire field. It just slows the damage race. The prot change is much more impactful than corpses. Still deciding how I feel about those changes. Diseases loving suck though! They are rough.
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Jul 18, 2015 05:46
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There need to be hero corpses so there can be a class who brings someone kicking and screaming back from the dead, covered in afflictions and likely mad.
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Jul 18, 2015 08:23
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What do I do about spiders that keep focus firing my special snowflake casters? This is like the 2nd fated occultist ive lost to them 
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Jul 18, 2015 13:03
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brocretin posted:I like how the Steam forums are completely making GBS threads their pants over the corpse mechanic. Apparently a bunch of people couldn't play this game without every enemy steadfastly sauntering towards the front line. I can only assume all these players just focus fire on the first enemy and wait for the conveyor belt to move forward. There is no way in hell corpses pose a challenge to normal play, I mean with a balanced team you'll have attacks reaching everywhere anyway. You'll occasionally need to clear the field but if you make greater use of DoTs it is few and far between.
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Jul 18, 2015 13:29
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Iretep posted:What do I do about spiders that keep focus firing my special snowflake casters? This is like the 2nd fated occultist ive lost to them bring someone with decent ranged attacks and kill the spitters first.
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Jul 18, 2015 13:38
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Inflammatory posted:bring someone with decent ranged attacks and kill the spitters first. Oh right, I was trying out the hound master. Guess I'll never use him then.
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Jul 18, 2015 13:41
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Honestly corpses don't feel like they change that much. Crusaders and Lepers are the only classes that really care if the front two slots are clogged. The very back slot can be a little tricky to hit so you might take an extra hit here and there, but several of the best classes can already easily kill back row enemies.
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Jul 18, 2015 14:16
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Rascyc posted:There are abilities that clear the entire field of corpses so the corpse stuff is really lost on me. Even the poor Leper can clear the entire field. It just slows the damage race. some guy got Rabies from reading a loving book, I've gotten like 3 diseases on one guy from a single playthrough sometimes. there's definitely some hosed up balance now and it has zero to do with corpses (besides being able to miss them) DLC Inc fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 15:09
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Yeah I feel like I'm drowning in costs to keep clearing diseases and missing something. I don't even bother clearing negative traits anymore because I can't keep ahead of both negative traits + diseases. Even if I get a really bad negative trait, usually the diseases are much worse. Maybe diseases will go away on their own if you ignore them? I have yet to try that. I am definitely having more fun with this patch iteration than the previous iteration.
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Jul 18, 2015 19:37
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Rabies from a book? drat. Sometimes you eat a good book, sometimes the book eats you.
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Jul 18, 2015 19:46
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Ah the cure from plague doctor during camp can clear diseases. Plague Doctors own this patch.
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Jul 18, 2015 20:00
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Speedball posted:Rabies from a book? drat. Sometimes you eat a good book, sometimes the book eats you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO9nNu4QAnw
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Jul 18, 2015 20:10
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Was expecting this to be Evil Dead's Necronomicon biting Ash's hand. EDIT: Actually the idea of a book biting your hand and then flapping its pages to fly around doesn't seem too outlandish for Darkest Dungeon's world... Cream-of-Plenty fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jul 18, 2015 |
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Jul 18, 2015 20:37
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plague doctors also being able to wipe out all corpses really makes this the "USE THE PLAGUE DOCTOR" patch. tbh PDs are always useful due to the boosting vapors anyway, and blight damage which really does great against PROT-stacking enemies. they're more about stat-inducing but seems you need to buy more time than ever and keep up with stuns/blights/etc on the enemies.
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Jul 18, 2015 22:00
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Speedball posted:Rabies from a book? drat. Sometimes you eat a good book, sometimes the book eats you. I prefer to imagine it was a book on rabies, and the person who read it was/is a hypochondriac! 
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Jul 18, 2015 22:29
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This game owns. I played for a couple hours for the first time today. Until I read the last couple of pages, I didn't even realize there were corpses. It didn't even occur to me to attack them. What happens? Made it through the first two missions, no deaths so far! My crusader won't stop praying and my highwayman is missing after a wild week in the bordello. Phone postin.
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Jul 18, 2015 23:53
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After reading about the new patch ITT I booted up Darkest Dungeon for the first time since it was first released on early access. It's a huge improvement and harder than I remember. Put about 6 hours into a new campaign and made little progress in building decent heroes and teams but have managed to upgrade the town a bit. Also the epic survival of the suicide squad that consisted of a jester, arlabest, occultist and hound master in a medium warren. Only the arlabest died and it really showed me the power of the jester's solo debuff. It was the best loot haul of the day. Also, the corpses didn't really prove to be too much of a problem. Just an extra turn to clear the field if needed.
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Jul 19, 2015 00:52
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Lucas Archer posted:This game owns. I played for a couple hours for the first time today. Until I read the last couple of pages, I didn't even realize there were corpses. It didn't even occur to me to attack them. What happens? Corpses are just dummy enemies that do nothing but take up space. If you kill or purge corpses, enemies in back will slide forward to fill the gaps. (Prior to this version there were no corpses and enemies slid forward automatically, which has led to considerable blubbering now that they don't.)
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Jul 19, 2015 15:00
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Rascyc posted:Maybe diseases will go away on their own if you ignore them? I have yet to try that. Unless it has changed during some patch, diseases have always eventually gone away on their own as long as you keep sending that character into the dungeon. That's the trade-off for them being so much worse than permanent negative traits.
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Jul 19, 2015 16:44
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SOLUTION: Add a mutator mechanic and have corpses be one to toggle on or off.
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Jul 19, 2015 17:16
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Trihugger posted:Unless it has changed during some patch, diseases have always eventually gone away on their own as long as you keep sending that character into the dungeon. That's the trade-off for them being so much worse than permanent negative traits. literally had no idea this was the mechanic. I assumed diseases were just worse quirks and never went away unless I sanitarium'd that poo poo. that's MUCH more manageable.
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Jul 19, 2015 17:18
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Game got a patch. Maggot prot is down and corpse hp seems down too. Vague patch notes but supposedly you can't miss on corpses now. Haven't ever missed on corpses myself so no idea there.
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Jul 19, 2015 18:52
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i guess it's a good thing my level 5+ guys arent laying waste to dungeons with ease anymore but man going from dealing on average over 15 dmg with some heroes to doing a crit of 6 or so is pretty harsh. i knew i should fought the level 6 hag last week
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Jul 19, 2015 18:54
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I started a new file for the Corpse and Hound update and Wilbur just killed my Houndmaster and Bounty Hunter by wiggling his flags at them. 1) The Necromancer Apprentice seems to destroy existing corpses when he summons his new minions 2) The Swine Prince doesn't seem to leave a corpse 3) gently caress WILBUR! gently caress! 4) It's hard to remember to use your dog treat 5) Diseases stack up really rapidly, sending someone to the sanitarium for disease control does NOT cure every disease they have, so you end up with comically diseased useless wrecks 6) Dismas no that is not 'just a rash', you have the loving black death. And I don't care how bad the poultice smells I'm not sending you to fight the necromancer while you're running off to poo poo every five minutes
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Jul 19, 2015 22:32
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Crasical posted:5) Diseases stack up really rapidly, sending someone to the sanitarium for disease control does NOT cure every disease they have, so you end up with comically diseased useless wrecks Upgrade the sanitarium and you can get multiple diseases off at once. Some camp skills can also cure diseases, too.
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Jul 19, 2015 22:47
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Yeah you just need to upgrade the sanitarium. I can't wait for people's diseases to naturally fall off, you build up such a backlog of them if you do and some are monstrous disadvantages. Unfortunately the sanitarium upgrades are only increased chances to take them off. Current patch is basically very fun for the beginner level stuff. When I kicked up to the level 3 dungeons, it got much harder. It's a much larger jump than before but bearable. I've read the level 5 dungeon people have been raging pretty hard on the forums though. Dunno if people are just playing badly or if the prot changes are too much. Rascyc fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 22:55
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Rascyc posted:Game got a patch. Maggot prot is down and corpse hp seems down too. Vague patch notes but supposedly you can't miss on corpses now. Haven't ever missed on corpses myself so no idea there. corpse being non-missable and getting an HP nerf is literally all I wanted, good to hear
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Jul 19, 2015 23:13
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Missed a corpse finally after the patch rip
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Jul 20, 2015 00:43
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So I've been having some good success using Houndmaster's +Scouting camp skill with the Ancestor's Map and just moving surgically through the dungeon. I also threw the Ancestor's Jacket and Sun Cloak on him and have Crusader mark himself and Houndmaster use his +Dodge/Guard skill on the Crusader. I save a TON of damage just by avoiding combat and having two characters effectively dodging everything. The only change I would make to the Houndmaster at this point is to give him a number of treats equal to his weapon skill level and to give him a +30% damage bonus against Marked targets.
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Jul 20, 2015 01:39
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just barely killed that Inchoalate Flesh fucker. after a turn I noticed the PROT and that helped, even if my graverobber was the one to get murdered. Now I just have to figure out what the hell to do with that wizened hag poo poo
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Jul 20, 2015 02:40
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Just make sure that your whole party will be able to hit the Hag (and remember that they may get slid forward if she takes someone in front.) The Hag has pretty low HP, so any given 3 heroes whaling on her is generally enough to bring her down before you get into dire trouble. People have problems when they have a melee character stuck twiddling their thumbs, or when the formation gets messed up from people going into/out of the pot and now the arbalest you were planning on carrying the group can't shoot.
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Jul 20, 2015 03:05
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Men at Arms I've found are pretty great to have along for the Hag, which makes up for the fact that they're kinda dangerous to have along when you fight the Swine.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:01
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I like highwaymen, two or three of them, for the hag. They can hit her no worries and point blank shot one hits people out of the pot more often than not (with camping buffs) Last time I did it w/ MaA, Occ, HwM, HwM and it went smooth.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:28
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Crasical posted:Men at Arms I've found are pretty great to have along for the Hag, which makes up for the fact that they're kinda dangerous to have along when you fight the Swine. You... realize that you don't have to actually use Riposte every turn, right? Guard is amazingly useful when Wilbur is calling the Prince's shots every round--the protection buff stacks with itself, so after a few rounds you can almost completely shut down the Swine Prince's offense.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:39
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Guard is p much the only thing going for man at arms right now  Retribution needs some reworking right now
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Jul 20, 2015 04:45
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Oh yeah that reminds me. With the extra duration and (I think) lower resitances on debuffs two Occultists in a party can have a boss hitting for 0 on the second round. It only needs one to keep them so debuffed but it takes a bit longer to get to -100% damage.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:45
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Did a test run in a red-level Weald with a team and dang everything but humans seem to have some zany prot. The Mushrooms, gargoyles and ghoul took for-loving-ever. I got through it, but it was kind of a mess. Partially because it wasn't my entire A-team. Also It had been awhile so I forgot to buy shovels. Harder than it NEEDED to be because of that. Corpses weren't that big a deal, I usually build parties to hit all over at least.
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Jul 20, 2015 04:46
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