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Haha this guy is great!quote:I think you've misunderstood what I meant by "deep." I mean deep in the sense of being profound, wise, sagacious. What I'm saying is that the setting lacks nuance and complexity, that it's childish, over-simplified, shallow, mindless, infantile, etc. Basically, I don't see Blue Rose appealing to anyone except a stripe of "progressives" who are politically and philosophically vacant, naive, and infantile. The sort of "progressives" who can't handle dissent and criticism, can't handle serious debate, whose politics are just conforming to their "progressive" peers, etc.  Why'd I get banned? Edit:  this guy was a member since 2010 and this is how he goes out?
That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 06:34
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Man, some people loving hate sweet magic deers.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:43
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Plague of Hats posted:Haha this guy is great! One way that I heard it put is that democracy is not the best form of governance. The best form of governance is the Good King, a wise and just philosopher-guardian who is attentive to their people's needs without smothering all traces of individuality. The problem with this system (beyond disagreement over what constitutes a Good King, and the panopticon nightmare you'd need to effect such a sovereign) is that kings have a way of dying, and the absolute worst form of governance, below even lawless anarchy, is the Bad King. A world with actual, verifiable magic and divine mandate might be able to get around some of these issues, but somehow I have to suspect his complaint is along the lines of those who screamed about extralegal usurpation of public policy by unelected, black-robed fascists when the SCOTUS had the audacity to say that gays are people and can marry.
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Jul 19, 2015 06:58
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Plague of Hats posted:Haha this guy is great! What's even more funny is that the person who he quoted to get there wasn't even talking about that guy's posts. It might have been a little confusing, but he threw that out there because of an unrelated post that happened to share a specific word. That's a hell of a meltdown. 10/10.
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Jul 19, 2015 07:09
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moths posted:I think he's trying to say he's really, really bad at being a Discordian. Really. You're not supposed to run Operation Mindfuck on yourself, dude.
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Jul 19, 2015 07:15
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Don't get me wrong, his meltdown is really a work of art, but the post that got him banned is some prime grog too. Yep, people who like Blue Rose sure are known haters of "traditional fantasy", you can tell because there isn't a single dwarf in the whole setting
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Jul 19, 2015 07:59
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paradoxGentleman posted:Yep, people who like Blue Rose sure are known haters of "traditional fantasy", you can tell because there isn't a single dwarf in the whole setting
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Jul 19, 2015 08:03
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Wait, I misread, he said "traditional power fantasy". I still think he is complaining about imagined slights.
paradoxGentleman fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 08:24
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Is this what your precious Conan teaches you friend? To be a child in the face of thine enemies? Didn't think so.
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Jul 19, 2015 09:37
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I think most elfgamers are too timid to go around shanking cops and robbing millionaires.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:07
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 "Registered in 2010" is what gets me. Though only 53 posts. Maybe he literally registered in 2010 and came back just now?  Is the whole "you're secretly fascists" thing really that common in grogdom?
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Jul 19, 2015 11:15
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Nah, that's just what you call people who disagree with you at any point since VE day 1945.
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Jul 19, 2015 11:32
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Ronwayne posted:Nah, that's just what you call people who disagree with you at any point since VE day 1945. "I have heard ['facism'] applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else." -George Orwell, 1944
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Jul 19, 2015 11:55
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the paranoia that if women/gays/people of color etc got any power then everything would turn into a fascist homofem dictatorship where white people are enslaved is also a thing, and probably some of why people can't stop reading fascist narratives into blue rose's magic deer and general law and order system
Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Jul 19, 2015 |
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Jul 19, 2015 15:33
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Fascists can't imagine anyone else not going full ham with power or authority like they would. But when they do it its okay because
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Jul 19, 2015 15:35
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Anti-utopianism has been the dominant narrative for over half a century.
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Jul 19, 2015 15:40
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spectralent posted:
Eh, I regged at rpg.net in 2006 or so and I have less than 200 posts there. I just don't usually have that much to add to most conversations. Same on SA really, though I have started to post more here lately.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:07
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Eh, I regged at rpg.net in 2006 or so and I have less than 200 posts there. I just don't usually have that much to add to most conversations. Same on SA really, though I have started to post more here lately. Sure, I'm more just wondering how it apparently snuck up on him that throwing poo poo at everyone who disagrees with him was probably not the way to go. If you'd been paying any amount of attention to the board at all, you'd presumably noticed people getting banned for even mild personal attacks, so it's baffling someone who's been there five years just went balls to the wall with it.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:39
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If nothing else, there's not much point in trolling if the way you do it makes it clear that you're much more annoyed than the person you're trying to badger.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:45
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Rand Brittain posted:If nothing else, there's not much point in trolling if the way you do it makes it clear that you're much more annoyed than the person you're trying to badger. I like to imagine that he didn't even use copy/paste to make that GROUPTHINK post. He was so angry that he just power typed the whole thing.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:53
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I had to check out blue rose after all the insane meltdowns it's caused around the usual sites, but honestly it just seems sort of bland and sterile. What is there about this game that people find even remotely offensive?
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Jul 19, 2015 20:31
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Fsmhunk posted:I had to check out blue rose after all the insane meltdowns it's caused around the usual sites, but honestly it just seems sort of bland and sterile. What is there about this game that people find even remotely offensive? It's "Mercedes Lackey: the RPG" and people get really offended by the existence of anything feminine in their rpg sites. That's pretty much it - Blue Rose is straight Romantic Fantasy and some people just can't handle that genre existing. Because they are the real progressives. 
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Jul 19, 2015 20:35
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Fsmhunk posted:I had to check out blue rose after all the insane meltdowns it's caused around the usual sites, but honestly it just seems sort of bland and sterile. What is there about this game that people find even remotely offensive? It doesn't hate gay people and there's some thought been put into how a monarchy could in fact be a net good despite investing executive power* into someone unelected. *notable part of the fix is "the monarch has less powers than a typical monarch would". EDIT: ^^^ is the real reason but those are the things people will claim they object to, neither of which really make sense either.
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Jul 19, 2015 20:35
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Some people really hate the magical deer that picks the kings because it can sense their innate goodness.
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Jul 19, 2015 20:40
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It's a game that's not aimed at them. That's literally it. That's all it takes to set off dudes who've created an identity around a medium catering to them 100% of the time(see also: video game nerds and Gone Home).
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Jul 19, 2015 20:54
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Mors Rattus posted:
I wouldn't trust a deer to choose my leaders either, a moose maybe.
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Jul 19, 2015 21:26
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Wait, so dudes who get huffy and protective of an alignment system are mad about the idea of using Detect Good/Detect Evil in the job interview for "most powerful guy?"
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Jul 19, 2015 21:44
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ellbent posted:Wait, so dudes who get huffy and protective of an alignment system are mad about the idea of using Detect Good/Detect Evil in the job interview for "most powerful guy?" To take them at their word, yes.
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Jul 19, 2015 21:54
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ellbent posted:Wait, so dudes who get huffy and protective of an alignment system are mad about the idea of using Detect Good/Detect Evil in the job interview for "most powerful guy?" Yeah, they never get why verisimilitude and cheap mind reading spells don't mix. Well, mix into a world they want.
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Jul 20, 2015 08:19
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I sort of get how "this creature chooses your next autocrat at its whim" could possibly be a problem in a lot of contexts, but the deer is loving magic. It could tell whether or not the dude is going to bomb Vietnam on top of passing the CRA and just move on to someone else instead.Fsmhunk posted:I had to check out blue rose after all the insane meltdowns it's caused around the usual sites, but honestly it just seems sort of bland and sterile. What is there about this game that people find even remotely offensive? "Is your hero male or female? Masculine or feminine, or somewhere in between? Vata are a somewhat androgynous race, while sea-folk are so androgynous that their genders are often unclear. There’s no requirement to play a character of the same gender as you. In fact, you may find it interesting to play a hero of a different gender, to experience a little of what life is like from another perspective. Generally speaking, men and women are equals in Aldea. They share the same opportunities and challenges. Is your hero transgendered? There are transgendered characters of every race. A transgendered hero might seek a means of living as a different gender. The Flesh Shaping arcanum offers one possibility, but it is sorcery. Is that a price your hero is willing to pay?"
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Jul 20, 2015 08:35
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Remember that when D&D Next first came out and had a sidebar about inclusivity that a bunch of people got up in arms over it. "Do we really need this shoved in our faces? Ugh, why does this need to be included in any game? D&D doesn't need to get political!" This was coming from generally pro-Next people too, folks who were glad to see D&D returning to traditional D&D values except hey, what's this doing here. As hyperbolic as this thread can get sometimes when talking about people with dumb and lovely elfgame opinions I don't think it's all that hyperbolic to say that the backlash against Blue Rose really does boil down to the fact that it's a game that dares to bring up GLBT people and say "yeah these guys are cool" and that maybe bigotry is bad. It's not even that preachy or super-pointed about it, there are no thinly veiled political cartoon-esque potshots going on, it doesn't open with an essay about how terrible traditional RPGs are and how you're a terrible person for enjoying them, etc. The hate for it largely seems to stem from A). it's the "wrong" type of fantasy aka not Tolkien by way of Howard, B). it makes mention of women and GLBT folks, and C). the central kingdom that PCs are likely to come from is a generally decent and egalitarian place to live and isn't secretly corrupt and grimdark beneath the facade which absolutely rubs some people the wrong way for some reason. tl;dr Blue Rose is about the most inoffensive game out there unless you really super loving hate magic deer, but to people convinced that anything which even vaguely resembles a concession to the SJW feminazi illuminati is part of the homofascist plot to kill roleplaying it's a hoof stamping on their face forever.
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Jul 20, 2015 08:55
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The Real Foogla posted:Yeah, they never get why verisimilitude and cheap mind reading spells don't mix. Well, mix into a world they want. I'm guessing in Blue Rose the purpose of this is to create a monarchial system which can be romantically defended without straining the credulity of modern-day players? Kai Tave posted:Remember that when D&D Next first came out and had a sidebar about inclusivity that a bunch of people got up in arms over it. "Do we really need this shoved in our faces? Ugh, why does this need to be included in any game? D&D doesn't need to get political!" This was coming from generally pro-Next people too, folks who were glad to see D&D returning to traditional D&D values except hey, what's this doing here.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:04
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Nessus posted:I guess these guys are unduly exercised over the (fictional) existence of provable Good. How ironic. In a way, yeah. I remember when the game first came out and people who I generally didn't have pegged as the sorts of folks to strip a gear were trying to come up with, like, a Blue Rose campaign where you play malcontents and exiles from the magic deer kingdom and the goal is to amass an army to go conquer Aldis and depose the tyranny of the magic deer, hey guys what if all this good kingdom stuff was SECRETLY A FACADE run by Lovecraftian horrors and everyone just thinks that Aldis is shiny and happy, hey what if the kind of oppressive kingdom over yonder are actually the good guys, makes you think Not all of them were even on the same level of pipe-smoking insanity necessary to churn out essays about how Blue Rose is actually a paean to fascism, but for some reason a bunch of people simply could not come to terms with an RPG that posited a generally Good kingdom...not even a utopia, this is demonstrably shown in the text of the game itself to not be the case...which was actually good and not a big bait-and-switch or something.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:28
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Kai Tave posted:In a way, yeah. I remember when the game first came out and people who I generally didn't have pegged as the sorts of folks to strip a gear were trying to come up with, like, a Blue Rose campaign where you play malcontents and exiles from the magic deer kingdom and the goal is to amass an army to go conquer Aldis and depose the tyranny of the magic deer, hey guys what if all this good kingdom stuff was SECRETLY A FACADE run by Lovecraftian horrors and everyone just thinks that Aldis is shiny and happy, hey what if the kind of oppressive kingdom over yonder are actually the good guys, makes you think I wonder how much of it is "This kingdom doesn't meet my idiosyncratic definitions of The Good, and therefore must be bullshit while a Catholic monarchy would not be" and how much is "I can't believe there could be actual goodness - there has to be a catch."
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Jul 20, 2015 09:32
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While I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Blue Rose as presented, and "Turns out all of Aldis is jerktown" is extreme, silly, unnecessary and shows bad faith towards the setting, something like Deep Space 9 as an alternate campaign tone for it might be fun. Rooting out an rear end in a top hat noble or something. I mean that show managed to explore the less savory aspects of the Federation without robbing it of it's heroic protagonist group status at all. Hell, I think there are a couple of kings who went bad even after being selected by the deer. Perhaps those bits of history were provided as a hook for that kind of game? Protecting the Aldis like that strikes me as extremely romantic fantasy. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 09:37
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 quote:I remember reading a description of 4e after using 3.5 my entire DnD life and thinking, "Filthy casuals." quote:Pathfinder is simply what 4th edition SHOULD have been quote:
quote:...3rd edition? All the money and the world and this is what he does... Smh..
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Jul 20, 2015 09:39
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Lightning Lord posted:Hell, I think there are a couple of kings who went bad even after being selected by the deer, even. Perhaps those bits of history were provided as a hook for that kind of game? Protecting the Aldis like that strikes me as extremely romantic fantasy. How about a king who gets a personality-changing head injury after his selection? That's something that actually happens sometimes in real life. Would also add an element of tragedy, since the king was better once and isn't even really evil now, he just got hurt.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:42
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^^^This is also literally a thing that happens in the game as written. One of the kings of Aldis wound up going mad as a result of fighting with demons and getting blasted with demonic magic that gradually poisoned his mind over time.Lightning Lord posted:While I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with Blue Rose as presented, and "Turns out all of Aldis is jerktown" is extreme, silly, unnecessary and shows bad faith towards the setting, something like Deep Space 9 as an alternate campaign tone for it might be fun. Rooting out an rear end in a top hat noble or something. I mean that show managed to explore the less savory aspects of the Federation without robbing it of it's heroic protagonist group status at all. This is exactly it. Being chosen by the magic deer doesn't mean "this person is a perfect paragon of goodness and will only do good things perfectly, everything in Aldis is a flawless homosocialist utopia forever." It's not even subtext, it's text. The currently chosen Queen of Aldis is viewed by some of the nobility as a bad fit for the throne in the current troubled times, magic deer be damned. That's the best/worst thing about all of this is that Blue Rose as written already provides for things like this without any work required, but to hear people talk about it it's all either "The Kingdom of Incorruptible Purity Where No Conflict Ever Happens" or "secret jackbooted gay fascists disappearing dissenters under a thin veneer of utopia."
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Jul 20, 2015 09:43
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I wonder if the deer was a thinly veiled version of Excalibur or some kind of trial would these same people be complaining as much? I don't get it especially in the light of stags and harts being popular medieval imagery.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:47
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Yeah, not detecting as EVIL just means you're not actively malicious enough to radiate actual EVIL ENERGY WAVES. By no means does it mean you're competent or qualified for the position, or have the personality or interests suited for it, or anything else like that. You could be the worst ruler in history but pass the initial test.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:49
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