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Arrgytehpirate posted:There is - you have many kills and are racing across the map to murderfuck the last nerd.
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Jul 21, 2015 04:01
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SilverMike posted:Went on what I accepted was a suicide run using my Isokaze vs. a carrier guarded by a Cleveland today. Turns out it's eminently survivable when the doorknob shoots AP at you. I also was spared death by an AP-firing Cleveland (in that last replay I posted, no less). I am sure these are the same geniuses who then fire HE at my Atago.
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Jul 21, 2015 04:14
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I always sneak up to 10.x km in Atago or NO then engage cruisers. A salvo of AP round and they either run (in which case I turn away since chasing is dumb) or try to engage while still showing broadside. Most pubbies choose to fight though 
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Jul 21, 2015 05:31
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gently caress Standard Battles forever    Got called a bad player because I didn't yolo into 7 ships to cap 
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Jul 21, 2015 06:06
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So we all know about Ctrl X, right? Well, Shift X locks your guns to the point you're aiming at, so as you turn they will track that point! Now if only they could add this to WoT...
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Jul 21, 2015 06:08
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-Troika- posted:Who are you useless shits that have a hard time hitting things in a battleship? It's not rocket science. Hold down alt while you're zoomed to see the flight time for your shells and then aim accordingly. Y'all are familiar with shot dispersion right?
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Jul 21, 2015 07:13
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Shot dispersion is almost a non-issue beyond tier 4 (except Colorado, because it's a piece of poo poo).
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Jul 21, 2015 07:14
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rossmum posted:Shot dispersion is almost a non-issue beyond tier 4 (except Colorado, because it's a piece of poo poo). Well I'm still on tier 4. Myogi can't actually hit anything at +15km, making a mockery of the 20km max range, Wyoming is lucky to land more than 2 out of 12 shots at max range. There's always been more to getting citadels than hitting the citadel zone on the target, and always more to hitting the target than getting the lead right, and I got as far as Fuso and New Mexico in CBT with no different experience to now.
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Jul 21, 2015 07:22
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So uh, I just booted up the game for the first time in a couple days and my mouse cursor is apparently invisible now?  not-edit: it's only when the game is in fullscreen and nothing has changed since the last time I've run it, as far as I'm aware. Also, I remember having issues with my highlight target button - I bound it to F but for some reason it never seems to do anything. Does my cursor need to actually be ON the physical model of the enemy for it to work? TehKeen fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 07:44
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TehKeen posted:So uh, I just booted up the game for the first time in a couple days and my mouse cursor is apparently invisible now? Yes. You need to be exactly aimed the target to designate them, and typically I can't designate people I don't have locked. Fortunately, if you have torpedoes, you can switch to those and lock the person, then designate them (it'll take a bit of precision since you can't zoom in while in torpedo mode).
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Jul 21, 2015 08:03
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Panfilo posted:
Do shells all have the same velocity ?
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Jul 21, 2015 08:08
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Why hasn't anyone created a guide to have the range and speed correspond to the numbers of the 'lead' lines?
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NTRabbit posted:Well I'm still on tier 4. Myogi can't actually hit anything at +15km, making a mockery of the 20km max range, Wyoming is lucky to land more than 2 out of 12 shots at max range.
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Jul 21, 2015 08:20
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NTRabbit posted:Well I'm still on tier 4. Myogi can't actually hit anything at +15km, making a mockery of the 20km max range, Wyoming is lucky to land more than 2 out of 12 shots at max range. You can't expect to reliably hit the Citadel on long range. The South Carolina can do it around 7km and lower.
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Jul 21, 2015 08:29
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This just in: BB NY is still awesome. I had a Furutaka and Phoenix come within 5 km (the Phoenix missed me by about 10m actually, I couldn't lower my guns enough to shoot he was so close), and blapped them hard with AP salvos, then had a long range duel with a Wyo and kept turning into him to bounce his shots when he fired. 
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Jul 21, 2015 09:01
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Taking a quick detour from writing up the commander skills post to quickly explain some things about the sights. I'll do a more indepth post about it later, maybe. Its not an easy thing to explain without a video. Assuming you have default crosshairs, this is what your poo poo will look like when you are zoomed in. I only sight at max, so I can't say how well this holds up for other zooms. Notice the 0 under the center point of the firing reticule, and the notches going to the left and right. There are very faint numbers, a 5 and a 10, written along the sights. This is important. I'm going to butcher the picture now with scribbles in MSPaint.  I circled the 5 and 10 and wrote them out above where they appear. Every big notch is 1 second. Every small notch is half a second in between. This also applies to the notches going vertically, under the Myogi, but this isn't relevant right now (and isn't quite as easy to figure out). As you can see, I've placed the nose of the Myogi just before the 4 second notch. Underneath, I have alt mode enabled, showing me the time to shell impact on where I am aiming. The time to impact (TTI) is 4.69 seconds at this range and with my particular shells, this changes depending on the boat, and the range. The Cleveland, for instance, has much lower shell velocity, so its TTI at the same range is likely to be much higher, but I'm getting off track. If I fire my guns now (which I did), the shells will not lead far enough ahead. However, I'm pretty close, and the Myogi is a big boat, so most of my shells impacted the rear of the Myogi, as I'm merely a half second off. Had I aimed precisely at the 4.5 notch or a little more, my shells would have impacted from the nose of the ship to the center of mass. I actually citadeled the Myogi this match on later volleys after adjusting my lead and getting closer, knocking his engine out and making him an easy target to torpedo. This aiming scheme works on virtually every ship I have played. However, there are times when it WILL break down. Notably, this only takes into account targets moving horizontally in relation to you. If they are angled away or towards you, you will have to adjust below or above the target. Depending on how much they are angled, you will have to cut time off of the TTI to get the proper lead, and you can add what you take off from your horizontal aiming to your vertical aiming instead (really easy, right? NOPE). A target moving 45 degrees to you will need to be aimed at half their horizontal, and roughly half their vertical, though vertical aiming is a bit more lenient, unless you're aiming for citadels. This is where we get into magick and dispersion, though, so don't be frustrated if it doesn't work at first. Vertical aiming is trickier, and you might have to mute how much you're leading vertically, unless the target is sharply angled. Also, the scheme breaks down when targets are moving REALLY fast. If the target is at full speed and over 33-34 knots, sometimes I will need to DOUBLE the amount of lead I am using. Just double your TTI and aim accordingly. This is more important on fast targets at mid-long range, like DDs and the light cruisers (Kuma, Phoenix), though occasionally you will get heavier cruisers at full speed. Also, the scheme fails if the target is NOT moving at full speed. If you suspect a target is throttled down, cut time from the lead equal to what throttle you suspect they are at. 3/4 means you take 25% off, 1/2 means you cut it in half, etc. Shooting at targets when your shells have a TTI of 10+ seconds is also a bit problematic. While it can work, the notches only go up to 12 (the point where the sights end). Any further than that and its all eyeballs from there. Dispersion also plays a big factor at this range, and if they make a tiny maneuver, they can lose speed and easily throw off your lead, both horizontally and vertically. These sorts of shots will require practice. Just note that my aiming scheme is something I've gotten accustomed to after hundreds of games, and I know when it breaks down and how to adjust. This is a guide, not a sure-fire way to always hit people forever. If you decide to use the sights like I do, you'll have to figure out when to manually adjust the aim, hence my recommendation to shoot at DDs. The "double the TTI" rule works fairly well on them, but you'll have to see just how fast they are going and learn when to use it, and when not to. Try to identify when a target has engine damage, as that will immediately drop their speed and force you to tighten up your lead significantly. Also, don't be hasty with your shots. If you see a wiggling enemy, wait until you see them starting to give you a better target before blowing your 30 second reload shells. It makes a big difference. Practice makes perfect. Also, the Furutaka game I took the shot in. A pretty average game, they died, we didn't, yay? 
Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 09:13
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The notches aren't about flight time, they're degrees. That's why you have to lead a target moving ~18kts at 10km by 5°* and one going ~34 knots by about 10°*. If it would be shell flight time, you wouldn't have to change the amount of lead to account for speed. * also depends on shell speed.
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Jul 21, 2015 09:20
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I was playing in my Isokaze and my entire team instantly fed themselves to an enemy Minekaze. I mean, he got 6 people within a few minutes and tagged us out of the game on points. I have no idea why they all kept driving directly into the fog wall all the torpedoes were coming out of. I wish people would be that dumb against my DD.
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Jul 21, 2015 09:23
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rossmum posted:Shot dispersion is almost a non-issue beyond tier 4 (except Colorado, because it's a piece of poo poo). I still have the stock hull on the New York and shot dispersion is loving horrible, when trying to hit a cruiser at around 10km I've had it happen that one shell goes high and the other low, both missing, there's bullshit like full 10 shell salvos doing that. It feels like the only way I can counter a cruiser in my BB is to get in close enough for shot dispersion to not matter, this often means I overextend because the other friendly BB and even some cruisers will stay far away doing gently caress all. To me it seems if I don't move close enough I will just get worn down by enemy cruisers who easily hit me, while I have to pray to rnjesus to get that lucky hit into their citadel. The only ship that seems a bit different from that is the Warspite, but I play that even more aggressive because I am in love with the secondaries.
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Jul 21, 2015 09:37
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Tank Boy Ken posted:You can't expect to reliably hit the Citadel on long range. You can't do it at short range either. There's no such thing as a reliable citadel, the game mechanics literally prevent this from being true.
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Jul 21, 2015 10:13
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cheese posted:I've come to the conclusion that there is no good reason to still be alive in a Cruiser or BB at the 10 minute mark of a match. If I'm still steaming around in my Fuso or Myoki at that point, then I haven't been aggressive enough. My XP and credits an hour have gone up a decent chunk since I start playing like that. Its so much harder to carry in WoWs than in WoT that there doesn't really seem to be a reward for drawing out a match to 19 minutes unless you are absolutely butchering the other team. You have completely the right idea. Battleship drivers: get stuck in there. Get bruised. Get set on fire. But get within range to give 'em hell back. Slugging it out with cruisers or other maneuverable ships at 17-20 kilometers out is disadvantageous for you to begin with, they have a higher rate of fire and can track you much better than you'll ever be able to, and you'll miss your spread nine times out of ten if they're paying attention to you. Bring the engagement to them. But I think, when you get skewered up, you should try to limp away. Often I see people driving BB's in a hot flank, they take a lot of damage and they think they can't retreat. Check your map: your team may be right behind you, and you have the armor and the hitpoints to scatter, if anything, to get a couple of extra volleys out when they heat's not on you anymore. A banged-up, near-hooded but alive battleship is still more useful than a dead one. Though if you died but ended out with three or four kills, you've done your part regardless I guess.
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Jul 21, 2015 10:38
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rossmum posted:Shot dispersion is almost a non-issue beyond tier 4 (except Colorado, because it's a piece of poo poo). NTRabbit is saying dumb things again, but at normal battleship ranges shell dispersion is demonstrably a large factor in damage. Over the 6 to 12 shells in a single salvo it obviously does not average out; there is (and probably should be) a significant RNG factor in battleship damage per salvo. Over a single game it's closer, but citadel hits are infrequent enough that the distribution is still pretty wide. It does average out for a player with enough games in the same battleship, but that's not terribly important since not even NTRabbit is complaining that battleship players' overall account stats are random. I don't want to repeat myself too much, but my last post in this thread has an example of this. In a cherry picked game (cherry picked by me, I picked the game with the highest rate of citadel hits) with favorable dispersion rolls and ideal conditions, a good player managed less than one citadel hit per salvo. You see the same thing in results screen shots in this very thread. You'll never get citadel hits if you aren't aiming close enough to the citadel, where "close enough" depends on your gun accuracy and range, but once you're close enough it doesn't matter much whether you make slight adjustments. In many situations just aiming to hit the ship you're shooting at is close enough. It might also be worth mentioning that just hitting the ship is more aim dependent than hitting citadel. This is for the same reason the FV304 in tanks is more skill dependent than the T92. Random dispersion has less effect when the target is bigger relative to the dispersion.
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Jul 21, 2015 10:46
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Nothing feels quite as good as seeing a DD shows its broadside at 5 km while using a Cleveland, one-volleying it and then just turning to make all of the DDs torps miss completely. I can just imagine the DD player thinking everything is going well, he managed to get his torps off, then suddenly dying while watching all his torps miss
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Jul 21, 2015 10:50
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Tekopo posted:Nothing feels quite as good as seeing a DD shows its broadside at 5 km while using a Cleveland, one-volleying it and then just turning to make all of the DDs torps miss completely. I can just imagine the DD player thinking everything is going well, he managed to get his torps off, then suddenly dying while watching all his torps miss On the flip side, its hilarious to be in a heated brawl with another DD, and then watch torp hits scroll in from a different fight 9km away that you torped at while you were fighting the DD. The enemy DD probably feels a little silly for wasting his torps, trying to hit me.  Hatsuharu, an amazing loving boat.
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Jul 21, 2015 11:00
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I just want to say that whenever I see Dunning-Kruger, I get reminded of that method of finding replicants in Blade Runner. 
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Jul 21, 2015 11:21
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cheese posted:I stopped doing the "lets trade volleys at 18km" thing in my BB's a while back. Now I get in up close and personal - its the way to go. 
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Jul 21, 2015 12:39
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The Gremy lost quite some effectiveness now that everybody and their mom has a drat cancer scout plane.
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Jul 21, 2015 12:42
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If anyone's interested in IRL naval gunnery - how the ships practiced, what their results were like, what dispersion patterns actually looked like, etc - this link is a pro-click. http://www.navweaps.com/index_inro/INRO_BB-Gunnery_p1.htm 
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Jul 21, 2015 12:54
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Polikarpov posted:If anyone's interested in IRL naval gunnery - how the ships practiced, what their results were like, what dispersion patterns actually looked like, etc - this link is a pro-click.  Looks like the Colorado really was poo poo.
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Jul 21, 2015 13:14
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El Disco posted:
Wargaming always strives for historical accuracy
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Jul 21, 2015 13:21
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Holy poo poo Colorado
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Jul 21, 2015 13:22
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Polikarpov posted:If anyone's interested in IRL naval gunnery - how the ships practiced, what their results were like, what dispersion patterns actually looked like, etc - this link is a pro-click. Ahaha christ the fuckin Colorado.
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Jul 21, 2015 13:59
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Polikarpov posted:If anyone's interested in IRL naval gunnery - how the ships practiced, what their results were like, what dispersion patterns actually looked like, etc - this link is a pro-click. Even the one hit it got wasn't a direct one 
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Jul 21, 2015 14:04
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That was pre radar tough? I assume gunnery from an Iowa with aided by radar systems was a lot more accurate, I'll have to find a source but I am sure I read something about a hit at something stupid like 21km.
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Jul 21, 2015 15:07
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Tahirovic posted:That was pre radar tough? I assume gunnery from an Iowa with aided by radar systems was a lot more accurate, I'll have to find a source but I am sure I read something about a hit at something stupid like 21km. These are all Colorado class battleship. Radar probably wouldn't have helped much, the plots are well centered on the fixed target, it's just the gun that has a terrible accuracy. I don't know if it was before or after Fire control computer with gyros, this would have helped.
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Jul 21, 2015 15:55
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Hazdoc posted:Taking a quick detour from writing up the commander skills post to quickly explain some things about the sights. I'll do a more indepth post about it later, maybe. Its not an easy thing to explain without a video. Added to the OP.
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Jul 21, 2015 15:55
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Tahirovic posted:That was pre radar tough? I assume gunnery from an Iowa with aided by radar systems was a lot more accurate, I'll have to find a source but I am sure I read something about a hit at something stupid like 21km. That's likely the straddle it got on a destroyer first salvo, which is impressive as hell, but the dispersion didn't lead to a hit.
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Jul 21, 2015 16:35
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demonR6 posted:Added to the OP. There's not really a way to tell how far to lead your target, as it is different in every ship depending on shell velocity, range to target, target speed, whether they're presenting a 90 degree broadside or angled to you. It's something you develop by feel more or less. I did just kill the poo poo out of a New York that got within 8km of my Arkansas. He was ignoring me to fling ineffective shots at a Murmansk 3km behind me. The first volley just ricocheted and did like 2.5k damage due to him being angled a bit, the second volley had 10 shells connect and even without any citadels, I killed him from 80% HP. God I love having 12 accurate guns.
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Jul 21, 2015 16:53
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orange juche posted:There's not really a way to tell how far to lead your target, as it is different in every ship depending on shell velocity, range to target, target speed, whether they're presenting a 90 degree broadside or angled to you. It's something you develop by feel more or less. I did just kill the poo poo out of a New York that got within 8km of my Arkansas. He was ignoring me to fling ineffective shots at a Murmansk 3km behind me. The first volley just ricocheted and did like 2.5k damage due to him being angled a bit, the second volley had 10 shells connect and even without any citadels, I killed him from 80% HP. God I love having 12 accurate guns. Yeah, my way of aiming isn't 100% perfect, but when I'm up against a CA or a BB, I usually fire my first salvo using the rules I put out in my post. It works pretty often, and then I can make slight adjustments based on where the shells hit. With DDs I do the same, and double the TTI to compensate for their speed, and the shells will come close, if not hit. Since it works so consistently for me, I figured people might try it and see if it works for them, too. Edit: I'd like it if people gave me feedback on if they're having any success using my lead strategy. Don't make me think I'm crazy! Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 16:59
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I usually aim by eye, but yeah, using the sights like that is reasonably reliable. Not sure on doubling it for fast ships, I'll have to try it out later. But it sounds about right.
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Jul 21, 2015 17:48
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Gapey Joe Stalin posted:I usually aim by eye, but yeah, using the sights like that is reasonably reliable. Not sure on doubling it for fast ships, I'll have to try it out later. But it sounds about right. I really hate having to aim an entire screen ahead of fast ships.
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Jul 21, 2015 17:59
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