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Another Person
Oct 21, 2010

Mr.Morgenstern posted:

This was in fact the justification for joining the Iconoclasts. "If these iconoclastic heathens are kicking our butts, clearly God is angry with us for having images!"

sounds plausible enough, must be true

e; i do not know much about the causes of the iconoclasts, it might well be for all I know

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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

mythomanic posted:

For that you'll just need to edit the culture files. Add the tag "allowed_to_loot = yes" to the cultures you want to loot. I think by default the Norse are allowed to loot, so check their files to get exactly how it should be formatted.

E: and if you add "seafarer = yes" it makes them more likely to hit coastal provinces? Not totally sure what that one does.

I think it allows them to do coastal raids, period (non-seafarer raiders can only raid provinces next to their realm - they can't load boats up with loot like the Vikings). It might also allow them to use boats along the major rivers.

Bel Monte
Oct 9, 2012
From my limited studies, the "iconoclast are our enemies, we should be too" thing that was pretty much the reason on paper. The underlying reasons are likely more complex but it's a very strong factor since that's what they said repeatedly and went through with it. Lots of art from that period and prior was destroyed because of them. I'm certain many statues and relics of Rome were completely trashed because of that.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge can shed light on if it was essentially an extremist power bloc bullying their way into power and eventually having the ear of the emperor. Wouldn't surprise me, as it hasn't been the first or the last. Doesn't help that when they turned to iconoclasm I believe they succeeded in some battles which only helped their cause.

Another Person posted:

Infact, I think I might be onto something bigger here. Dynamic evolution of faith. A system somewhat like the HRE/Papacy mechanics in EUIV where there is a person 'in charge' for a time, and a bunch of voters who are representatives of faith from all of the nations that faith is present in. This group then votes or influences decisions from the centre of that religion to create doctrinal change. Once changed, an edict is sent out declaring that the faith has made a ruling on a practice, and that all nations of that faith must follow. Rulers can adopt these changes, and take the benefits or consequences that come with them which would gain them favour in the faith and make their vote slightly more important due to being in line with current practices, but can also oppose them. If they oppose enough decisions, then a heresy based on the voting pattern of that nation might develop, reflecting their preferences.

gently caress man, I wish I had the ability and patience to make a mod. I would make so many sick, dumb mods.

Sounds cool, and it can also be adapted to pagans for a slower and more gradual reformation and codification. It would also allow you to influence your religion. I imagine a "civilized" Norse religion would cool it on the conquests and raiding eventually... and certainly would if they became merchants instead of feudal lords. It's just weird to reform the Norse faith and become a bunch of bankers and traders. Nothing says :black101: like luxurious fur coats!

lightinwater
Jan 1, 2014

Another Person posted:

sounds plausible enough, must be true

e; i do not know much about the causes of the iconoclasts, it might well be for all I know

Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

TjyvTompa
Jun 1, 2001

im gay

ZombieLenin posted:

So running a new nomad game to try some stuff out and my Khan died before his heir was of age. In previous experience this means that the Khanate goes to another clan leader... except this time the Khanate totally breaks apart and every clan becomes independent.

I'm left wondering why? There were no independence factions when my ruler died, so I really don't get it.

I previously replied to this but I found someone else with the same problem on the official forums so I guess it is a bug:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/2-4-2-mongol-ruler-died-all-clans-got-independend.872570/

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe
For the crown authority rules, does "set_the_kings_full_peace" imply "set_the_kings_peace"? i.e. if I had kings peace set to no but full kings peace set to yes, would vassals be able to wage war against each other, but not be able to declare war on anyone outside the realm?

The reason I ask is I've had a few thoughts on how to potentially make huge Empire blobs more difficult to hold together and I'm thinking of making a little mini-mod related to that. One of the thoughts was to rearrange some of the crown authority effects - namely, to move "vassals can't wage war against each other" up to absolute, and "vassals can't declare war at all" down to high (or put both at absolute if it turns out that won't work). The main intention there is that medium CA really isn't that hard to reach, nor is it particularly difficult to manage the opinion penalty it causes, yet it HEAVILY handicaps a vassals' ability to increase their own power.

The AI themselves will often just go up to medium and stay there and I think that's part of why blobs tend to be so stable - they get high enough to prevent their vassals from getting large enough to potentially topple them, but not high enough to piss off their vassals as a whole and incite a mass revolt.

Other ideas were to reduce the minimum levy bonus from CA laws, making vassal opinions still matter at higher CA if you want a really huge army.

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:


So I'm playing a game in the Byzantine Empire for the first time, working my way up from a count. I've now got my own duchy after starting in the earliest Charlemagne scenario, but I'm noticing that apparently across the empire, the sole heir for duchy-level titles is the Emperor. So whenever a Doux somewhere dies, the title reverts to the Emperor, who then will either hang onto it or dole it back out again to whoever (which is how I got the duchy in the first place :toot: ). Is this a bug or working as intended?

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Drone posted:

So I'm playing a game in the Byzantine Empire for the first time, working my way up from a count. I've now got my own duchy after starting in the earliest Charlemagne scenario, but I'm noticing that apparently across the empire, the sole heir for duchy-level titles is the Emperor. So whenever a Doux somewhere dies, the title reverts to the Emperor, who then will either hang onto it or dole it back out again to whoever (which is how I got the duchy in the first place :toot: ). Is this a bug or working as intended?

They're all viceroyalties - the "Imperial Administration" law activates duchy viceroylaties even if you don't have the legalism tech required for them normally.

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Another Person posted:

Even though I don't like it, I think it has been said many times now that there will not be playable Theocracies in the game sadly.

I fully trust Paradox being able to make it work within the game's premise, if they ever put their mind to it.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

THE BAR posted:

I fully trust Paradox being able to make it work within the game's premise, if they ever put their mind to it.

no we won't

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
The central tenet to crusader kings isn't crusader kings but family lineage, theocracies don't act on that basis so would be by far a more radical departure from the game mechanics than anything to date

Drone
Aug 22, 2003

Incredible machine
:smug:


Solemn Sloth posted:

The central tenet to crusader kings isn't crusader kings but family lineage, theocracies don't act on that basis so would be by far a more radical departure from the game mechanics than anything to date

There were four popes from the Medici family alone, and the papacy was very much tied to familial politics.

The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008

Fun Shoe

Drone posted:

There were four popes from the Medici family alone, and the papacy was very much tied to familial politics.

Yeah but you can already manipulate the system to put family members in (on?) the Holy See. Either the long way via trying to get one made a cardinal and then stabbing popes until they end up a frontrunner, or the quick way by using free investiture to give them a church, then making them an antipope.

More detail added to other religions along the lines of the college of cardinals from SoA would be nice, but to be honest I can't really think of what they could actually do.

*edit*

Does the AI ever decide to refuse advances from a seduction focus character? I have not seen a single female character over the age of 16 without lover's pox.

The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 12:33 on Jul 24, 2015

THE BAR
Oct 20, 2011

You know what might look better on your nose?

Groogy posted:

no we won't

I'm adamant you could, though. Don't sell yourself short!

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

THE BAR posted:

I'm adamant you could, though. Don't sell yourself short!

Oh we definitely could, I just answered that we won't.

Solemn Sloth
Jul 11, 2015

Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.
So after wrangling with creating titles that don't inherit for the better part of two days to make someone dead appear as "Saint x", I discovered that 2.4 allows you to just set a custom string as someone's prefix title with one command...

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013

Groogy posted:

You might need to force your flag cache to regenerate
Yeah, I do that every patch (delete gfx).

Still have quite a few black CoAs running around, though it does fix the black flags that I get almost every patch.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

lurksion posted:

Yeah, I do that every patch (delete gfx).

Still have quite a few black CoAs running around, though it does fix the black flags that I get almost every patch.

Can you give me a complete list of the DLC's you own? I mean every single one, cosmetic and expansion.

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013

The Cheshire Cat posted:

Does the AI ever decide to refuse advances from a seduction focus character? I have not seen a single female character over the age of 16 without lover's pox.
The problem seems to be that when you get targeted, those events come flying through every few months (MTTH 60 days). A random yes chance from the target is going to come up sooner or later (looking at the events, there is no trait that zeros out the yes chance) if the seducer is persistent...which they will be, because there's only a 1% chance (well, .99%) they give up against an AI target (unless they switch targets). That seems excessive, if I'm reading things correctly (which I may well not be)

Groogy posted:

Can you give me a complete list of the DLC's you own? I mean every single one, cosmetic and expansion.
Wow does steam make this a pain - had to dig out the regexs. I think someone else was also posted about this issue on the last page too.
Crusader Kings II: Persian Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Turkish Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Mongol Faces
Crusader Kings II: Dynasty Shields
Crusader Kings II: Songs of Albion
Crusader Kings II: Songs of Faith
Crusader Kings II: Songs of the Holy Land
Crusader Kings II: Ruler Designer
Crusader Kings II: Songs of the Caliph
Crusader Kings II: African Unit Pack
Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
Crusader Kings II: Songs of Byzantium
Crusader Kings II: African Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Dynasty Shield II
Crusader Kings II: Byzantine Unit Pack
Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion DLC
Crusader Kings II: Russian Unit Pack
Crusader Kings II: Russian Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Songs of the Rus
Crusader Kings II Songs of Prosperity DLC
Crusader Kings II Mediterranean Portraits DLC
Crusader Kings II The Republic DLC
Crusader Kings II: Hymns to the Old Gods
Crusader Kings II: Norse Unit Pack
Crusader Kings II: Norse Portraits
Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
Crusader Kings II: Celtic Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Europa Universalis IV Converter
Crusader Kings II: Customization Pack
Crusader Kings II: Hymns of Abraham
Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
Crusader Kings II: Songs of India
Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
Crusader Kings II: Iberian Portraits
Crusader Kings II: Way of Life

beer_war posted:

Now it's just some black CoAs.


The other guy.

lurksion fucked around with this message at 14:33 on Jul 24, 2015

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I don't know why everyone wants to play theocracies since most of them just don't do anythng ingame besides listen to divorce, excommunication, and maybe the occasional invasion request. The non-theocratic religious titles are the only ones that would be any fun to play, and you already can play those.

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

QA can't reproduce it, can you come up with anything like that would differ between you and another machine? Mod running you forgot you have turned on? Anything really?

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Groogy posted:

Oh we definitely could, I just answered that we won't.

I have faith that one day you'll give us the ability to have theocracies and real republics and then we modders will do what you cannot: make an actual Rome game. :v:

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

I have faith that one day you'll give us the ability to have theocracies and real republics and then we modders will do what you cannot: make an actual Rome game. :v:

You missed maybe the latest changelog....

quote:

- Fixed a bug that made Hellenic Pagan religion available in the Ruler Designer.

Rome shall perish into the oblivion as I slowly kill the joy of everyone who loves it..... *sinister laugh*
No not really though wasn't me this time.

Groogy fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 24, 2015

DStecks
Feb 6, 2012

Theocracies would be doable with one alteration to the game: make unlanded characters playable. So you could be made a bishop, you just wouldn't keep the title after that specific character dies.

ZombieLenin
Sep 6, 2009

"Democracy for the insignificant minority, democracy for the rich--that is the democracy of capitalist society." VI Lenin


[/quote]

TjyvTompa posted:

Did they just turn independent or did they settle as feudal? Check their government status thingy icon below the rulers religion. I noticed that the very second my Khanate was inherited by the AI they settled as feudal. If the khanate then was inherited by another Khan they in their turn might have settled e.t.c until only your horde was left and inherited what was left, it happened to me every time I did not inherit the Khanate.

No, definitely ended up with 5 nomadic clans scattered across the steppes; although me and my 3 province liege (I didn't actually become independent) hung on to our feudal vassals.


So this is what happened. I was playing the Uighurs, and had personally expanded the Khanate as far as the province of Turkistan.

My character dies in battle and his 12 year old inherits the clan. The khanate goes to another clan leader and 4 independent clans show up instantly (it was a 6 clan Khanate). I am still in the Uighur Khanate which now only consists of me, my liege and his three provinces, and our direct feudal vassals/tributaries.

beer_war
Mar 10, 2005

lurksion posted:

The other guy

Deleting the gfx folder seems to have cleared up the issue for me.

Mr.Morgenstern
Sep 14, 2012

quote:

- Fixed a bug that made Hellenic Pagan religion available in the Ruler Designer.

Yes :kheldragar:

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013

Groogy posted:

QA can't reproduce it, can you come up with anything like that would differ between you and another machine? Mod running you forgot you have turned on? Anything really?
I can provide a save. It's perfectly fine on new games (which is why my initial question was about in save games)

lurksion fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jul 24, 2015

Groogy
Jun 12, 2014

Tanks are kinda wasted on invading the USSR

lurksion posted:

I can provide a save. It's perfectly fine on new games (which is why my initial question was about in save games)

Ah yes I think one of them mentioned something about that so might be that.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
I'm glad the Hellenic one is gone because sometimes I clicked it by accident

lurksion
Mar 21, 2013

Groogy posted:

Ah yes I think one of them mentioned something about that so might be that.
Ah OK.

I guess my mission is to now murder the Abissads, Ummyadds, and Makedon into obscurity so I don't have to see their black COA anymore. It's ironman, otherwise I would edit in a custom COA.

TjyvTompa
Jun 1, 2001

im gay

ZombieLenin posted:

No, definitely ended up with 5 nomadic clans scattered across the steppes; although me and my 3 province liege (I didn't actually become independent) hung on to our feudal vassals.


So this is what happened. I was playing the Uighurs, and had personally expanded the Khanate as far as the province of Turkistan.

My character dies in battle and his 12 year old inherits the clan. The khanate goes to another clan leader and 4 independent clans show up instantly (it was a 6 clan Khanate). I am still in the Uighur Khanate which now only consists of me, my liege and his three provinces, and our direct feudal vassals/tributaries.

I made another reply to your post with a link to a bugreport on the pdx forums that describes your problem so it seems to be a bug.

TjyvTompa
Jun 1, 2001

im gay
2.4.3 beta is out:
code:
MINOR:
- Fixed a bug allowing you to abandon trade posts in your provinces regardless if you owned the trade post or not.
- Antipopes should now seize the treasury of the Vatican if their claim on the Papacy is pressed.
- Lobby diplomacy items are now spaced correctly.
- The republic view won't display dead heirs anymore.
- Stewardship bonus from character focus now influences the demesne tax bonus correctly.
- Observer players will no longer get stuck in the game after the server had been lost.
- When playing a nomad, settling as a merchant republic through a holding owned by a vassal merchant republic won't lead to duplicate family palaces and non-merchant patricians anymore.
- Fixed shortcuts in the end of battle and end of siege screens, the goto option is now bound to the "g" key.
- The game won't think any fabricated claim is a claim on Canaries in the learning scenario anymore.
- Minor clan rebel starting troop numbers are now being scaled with the khagan's population and they decrease the khagan's population by 10%.
- Fixed a bug that was preventing wars to update properly when an unlanded character won a title for which there was another war in progress.
- Added a confirmation dialog for disbanding individual regiments.
- Portraits in the republic view are now being updated correctly.
- Fixed a bug that sometimes caused allies to be hostile towards each other if there was a revolt war without a temporary title.
- Nomads are no longer blocked from moving their capital to provinces with ongoing trade post and fort constructions.
- Revolting nomad vassals won't become independent when losing a title in aother war anymore.
- Raiding adventurers will no longer end up as landless clan vassals under a khagan when leading a revolt and losing all landed titles in another war.
- Fixed a bug that would sometimes cause laws to change incorrectly for rebels after their war ends.
- Unattackable non-nomad counts won't exist anymore.
- Unlanded characters inheriting duchy or higher titles won't prefer feudal government when the predecessor was not feudal anymore.
- Unlanded characters getting titles in wars for claim won't prefer feudal government when the previous holder was not feudal anymore.
- Various fixes to event triggers etc.
- Various minor text fixes and improvements.
- Various improvements to decision tooltips.
- Corrected the Serbian and Bulgarian names for Dyrrachion.
- Fixed a bug that made Hellenic Pagan religion available in the Ruler Designer.
- Tweaks and balancing to the decisions for creating Portugal, Castille and Aragon, including more informative tooltips.
- The Kingdom of Leon can now be created by the holder of the Kingdom of Asturias.
- Added more characters and dynasties to the Steppes.
- Rebalanced the effects of the decisions for expelling and readmitting the Jews, and also improved the tooltips for those decisions.
- The Duchy of Livonia is now part of the de jure Kingdom of Finland at all start dates.
- A character can no longer be slandered with bastardry rumors if they already a known bastard.
- Fixed a bug that allowed a ruler to be attacked with two pagan subjugation wars simultaneously.
- Robert II de Hesbaye (Capet ancestor) is now playable in 769.
- Random looting events are now working properly again.
- The chance to have twins is increased if mother and/or grandmothers had twins.
- Chronicle random events aren't "Serpents" every time.
- No longer inactivates titular titles that should be creatable (Caliphates, Duchy of Visby, etc.)
- Can no longer search for inactive titles in the find title dialog
- Fixed capital problem inheritance for gavelkind that could occur with custom kingdoms and Elective Gavelkind where it would give away your only Province.
- Patricians are richer and need large courts so they are better prepared to deal with epidemics and won't get infected by being overcrowded anymore
- Added better protection to the immediate family of a landed ruler from epidemics and overcrowded modifier
- Should now properly remove nomad capitals if supposed to and also search through for duplicates in the province
- Fixed revolting viceroys becoming normal rulers upon war invalidation
- Should always reset the tributary status if your liege is a tributary or suzerain
- Fixed problem where you could get stuck in a war with your prepared invasions target and receive the penalties for expiring the invasion timer
- Fixed with colors for raiders and made colors also differ more per tier level
- Fixed outdated localization for forts
- Fixed so dead people should no longer be title claimants, should no longer make dead people win crusades.
- Lowered the amount of dignity de-jure capital gives so Kingdom of Venice don't get more dignity than Empire of Italia.
- Added historical rulers for Sri Lanka.
- Converting to local religion via decision now costs Prestige and gives Piety.
- Pagan AI rulers now take more factors into account when greeting foreign preachers and deciding whether to convert. Factors include realm size, the threat of dangerous holy wars, desire to reform their government, Pagan homeland attrition etc.
- Non-nomadic characters won't ensure non-empty primary holdings in their counties on inheritance if that inheritance will make them nomadic.
- The game will now detect rare cases of nomad capital holdings being in non-capital provinces and automatically fix the issue.
- Fixed a bug when provinces were incorrectly evaluated as occupied in some rare circumstances.
- Fixed so governments are not re-evaluated on reloading a save, they should now be persistent.

MODDING:
- The spawn_unit effect now supports scaling the troop numbers according to population.
- Use scaled_with_population_of to set a character or title whose population will be used for scaling.
- Use for_population to set the reference population the troops numbers are meant for. The troop numbers will linearly scale when the actual population differs from for_population.
- Added a add_population_scaled effect which adds/subtracts a portion of target's population.
- The game won't crash after increasing MAX_LEADERSHIP_TRAITS anymore. However, only 2 trait icons will be displayed in the minor title view unless you add more of them to honorary_titles_view_item.
- Fixed that count value wasn't used by the any_* effects

CONVERTER:
- Fixed converter crash with specific scenario that had happened in a save

binge crotching
Apr 2, 2010

The Cheshire Cat posted:

I think it allows them to do coastal raids, period (non-seafarer raiders can only raid provinces next to their realm - they can't load boats up with loot like the Vikings). It might also allow them to use boats along the major rivers.

There is a river travel flag that can be set, seafarer should be purely coastal.

Schizotek
Nov 8, 2011

I say, hey, listen to me!
Stay sane inside insanity!!!
While your here groogy, can you use your magical dev powers to tell this guy to leave?

He refuses to leave my capital, just sits on it until the looted modifier goes away and gets another 400 gold to make himself even more stupidly huge with.

Schizotek fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jul 24, 2015

Bishop Rodan
Dec 5, 2011

See you in the funny papers, liebchen!
I think I found a bug in the beta already. Whenever my Khagan dies, my population and manpower all get set to 0, I get an extra nomad holding in my capital, and it tells me that I will lose the Khaganate on succession despite having eligible heirs.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Bishop Rodan posted:

it tells me that I will lose the Khaganate on succession despite having eligible heirs.

I think this part is normal since clan leaders with high prestige can also inherit the khaganate. Make sure your heir has higher prestige than any clan leader.

Bishop Rodan
Dec 5, 2011

See you in the funny papers, liebchen!

Pakled posted:

I think this part is normal since clan leaders with high prestige can also inherit the khaganate. Make sure your heir has higher prestige than any clan leader.

It may actually be because all the other clans have a higher population than me, on account of my population being zapped despite being nearly 100K before.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

Pakled posted:

I think this part is normal since clan leaders with high prestige can also inherit the khaganate. Make sure your heir has higher prestige than any clan leader.

its more a problem with having 0 population

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Merdifex
May 13, 2015

by Shine

Ofaloaf posted:

I just like having the Indian Wars inverted for once.

Are there any equestrian nomadic groups in the AtE world?

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