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ErIog posted:Listen, CJacobs is the god-king emperor decider person about how other people should spend their money, and this is bad! You can't like, question it, man. There's a project, and CJacobs doesn't like that project so therefore it's a bad Kickstarter. Same goes for all the other products CJacobs doesn't buy. If they were good things then CJacobs would purchase them, but CJacobs does not purchase them so therefore they are not good. CJacobs never wastes money on frivolities themselves. Hahaha edit: ErIog posted:It's absurd, isn't it! It's almost like I wasn't being 100% serious! Hahaha ha haha ha
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Jul 30, 2015 18:05
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How much did you pledge to Red Ash, Erlog
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Jul 30, 2015 18:06
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CJacobs posted:How much did you pledge to Red Ash, Erlog None because it doesn't look like a game I want to play, but it's always fun to call people like you out for having strong opinions on how other people spend their money. Speaking of, I was going to get a hamburger for lunch today. Is that okay with you? It seems like you really want to make sure other people know you disagree with their spending habits. I just wanted to make sure it's not triggering for you if I purchase a hamburger instead of eating something I already have in the fridge.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:13
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Yeah you totally weren't being 100% serious, for sure
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Jul 30, 2015 18:15
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look at all of these joke paragraphs i wrote!!!! I think it's a bit dickish to ask people to fund your game and then be already funded elsewhere, but I cannot get too mad at people who separate dumb nerds from their money.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:19
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CJacobs posted:Yeah you totally weren't being 100% serious, for sure If you don't understand that it was hyperbole when I called you "god-king emperor decider person" then I really don't know what to do.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:22
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CJacobs posted:How much did you pledge to Red Ash, Erlog lol post ur tumblr fatty, rite guys
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Jul 30, 2015 18:33
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ErIog posted:If you don't understand that it was hyperbole when I called you "god-king emperor decider person" then I really don't know what to do. It is obvious you were making a joke, but you are now pretending that you were making a different joke than the one you were making. Those are your real opinions.
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Jul 30, 2015 18:35
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theflyingorc posted:It is obvious you were making a joke, but you are now pretending that you were making a different joke than the one you were making. Those are your real opinions. Oh no! You found out my real opinions! It's almost like I posted what my opinion was and you read it and understood what I was saying. Yes, it is my opinion that aggressively policing how other people spend their leisure money is loving stupid since it always ends up being hypocritical. I used hyperbole in my post about this topic since I thought it would be more interesting than the sentence I just typed, and since this is a comedy forum called Something Awful in a section called General Bullshit I thought it would be okay to use hyperbole there. I said I was not "100% serious" because, among other things I said in my post, I do not literally think that CJacobs is the god-king emperor decider person on leisure spending. Were you able to follow these myriad and nuanced layers of my shitposting now that I have given you a roadmap? ErIog has a new favorite as of 18:56 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 18:48
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Game companies are using Kickstarter as a way to gauge interest because making games is hella expensive! All of these Kickstarter deals are basically "prove that there's a market, and we'll fund your development". It's less risky for game publishers since it puts a lot of the heavy lifting on the devs, and fans get to be engaged and the rest of the Web 2.0 synergizing collaborative effort vertical integration word salad that C levels love to hear. People don't really realize how lovely the margins are on video games these days and they get all bent out of shape when being told "no, games don't cost a few hundred thousand to make". Shenmue 3 isn't going to cost 6 million dollars, the loving first one cost like 40 mil of 1999's dollars. Besides, ErIog isn't even a real doctor. He didn't even finish his dissertation on OK to average opinions.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:10
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ErIog posted:None because it doesn't look like a game I want to play, but it's always fun to call people like you out for having strong opinions on how other people spend their money. Speaking of, I was going to get a hamburger for lunch today. Is that okay with you? It seems like you really want to make sure other people know you disagree with their spending habits. I just wanted to make sure it's not triggering for you if I purchase a hamburger instead of eating something I already have in the fridge. 
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Jul 30, 2015 19:17
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theflyingorc posted:I think it's a bit dickish to ask people to fund your game and then be already funded elsewhere, but I cannot get too mad at people who separate dumb nerds from their money. Kickstarter's system incentivizes asking for less money than you actually need for the project because you want the project to be able to get fully funded(flex-funding is perceived as shady) and people who are giving money always think you should be able to do more things for less money. Potential backers don't have any expertise to know what a real budget figure should look like, and always think it should be smaller rather than larger. So I disagree that there's anything dickish about asking for Kickstarter money while also getting some other amount of money from some other funding source. Kickstarter money isn't a guarantee, and funding from somewhere else other than Kickstarter is also not infinite. If you have a project you actually want to get finished then using only Kickstarter is a really bad way to go about things from a business perspective. Kickstarter money could be enough, but who knows. So the criticisms of Red Ash in this case all basically come off like the people don't know anything about game dev, don't like the game, and want to go on a witch hunt to find impropriety where there is none. In the process, they also slander, unfairly, the people who want to give money to the project. It's dumb, and it makes it really clear that for many people posting in this thread the definition of "Awful Kickstarter" is nothing more than "Kickstarter I don't want to back." It isn't just limited to GBS, though. This kind of stupid mob mentality that happens for dumb reasons around legitimate Kickstarters exists other places on the internet too. ErIog has a new favorite as of 19:24 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 19:21
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Edward_Tohr posted:... Oh, and got the thing funded by a proper publisher before the kickstarter even ended. Stay classy, Inafune. "Proper publisher" is a bit of a stretch: http://www.fuzegame.tv/e/index.php http://www.fuzegame.tv/e/product.php
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Jul 30, 2015 19:27
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Phone posted:Game companies are using Kickstarter as a way to gauge interest because making games is hella expensive! All of these Kickstarter deals are basically "prove that there's a market, and we'll fund your development". It's less risky for game publishers since it puts a lot of the heavy lifting on the devs, and fans get to be engaged and the rest of the Web 2.0 synergizing collaborative effort vertical integration word salad that C levels love to hear. If you're going to do that then it's fine but waiting until virtually the last day to pull back the curtain and reveal the extent of your financing seems like it's not dealing in good faith, especially when you're trying to convince people to make an investment in you. If you roll up to Kickstarter on day one and tell everyone about your other financing then that's fine, but that doesn't happen very often, probably because the people running the show understand that it would negatively impact contributions. There's no incentive to be transparent, and it's kickstarter, so nerds don't demand transparency even when it's a fairly major undertaking that involves their freely given money and then they get really defensive about it, vis. the last twenty comments yelling at people for being skeptical of a kickstarter that's acting shady Words
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Jul 30, 2015 19:36
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Prop Wash posted:If you're going to do that then it's fine but waiting until virtually the last day to pull back the curtain and reveal the extent of your financing seems like it's not dealing in good faith, especially when you're trying to convince people to make an investment in you. People are bad at numbers and being 100% transparent is usually a liability. The goal for these Kickstarters is to gauge interest and provide a business case out in the open. Thousands of nerds saying "but they already have funding!" and going, "actually it's about ethics in video game crowd funding" is a red herring; they actually don't care at all. Like keep in mind, the devs for loving Star Citizen posted a poll asking if the community wanted to see how their millions of dollars were being spent and the answer was a resounding "Noooooooooooooo". Nerds don't want transparency or to know how the sausage is made, they want more windmills to tilt at.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:45
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Prop Wash posted:being skeptical of a kickstarter that's acting shady They're not acting shady, though. They're acting like a business that has a project they need funding to make. If you can point out where they've lied then I'd be willing to go down this road with you, but so far it's mostly been the pretty standard practice of not doing full budget disclosure. Do you think Inafune's gonna run off with the small amount of money he's getting through crowdfunding? Phone posted:People are bad at numbers and being 100% transparent is usually a liability. DoubleFine is a great example of this. It was probably the most transparent a company has ever been about real budgets for game dev, and people still had loving insane conspiracy theories and axes to grind over it. After that poo poo happened, I really can't blame any company that wants to say, "You either trust us based on our reputation or you don't. We're not giving you budget information because you don't need to know." There's nothing to be gained by being transparent so companies aren't doing it. Potential backers couldn't read a budget to save their lives. Letting backers dictate your budget to you is a great way to end up with not having enough money to actually come through with a game since backers don't know poo poo about what it costs to employ even a handful of people for the year or two or three it takes to make a game. Everyone who played a Mario one time, though, thinks they're experts on it. I'm not saying everybody giving money to Inafune is a budget master ubermenschen. There are probably silly people tossing him money for silly reasons, but the assumption by a strong contingent in this thread is that those people are stupid and all the people not giving money are much smarter than all those stupid people. My ultimate point is that most people are really loving stupid about game dev, but the ones giving the money to Inafune are just making a different choice in how to waste their money than the people who aren't. You can feel smug for not backing if you want, but if your reasons for not backing are based on conspiracy theory style rhetoric about your misunderstanding of the budget then you're still a loving idiot. You're just an idiot with more money in your pocket than the other idiot who backed the game. ErIog has a new favorite as of 20:10 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 19:49
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ErIog posted:So the criticisms of Red Ash in this case all basically come off like the people don't know anything about game dev, don't like the game, and want to go on a witch hunt to find impropriety where there is none. In the process, they also slander, unfairly, the people who want to give money to the project. It's dumb, and it makes it really clear that for many people posting in this thread the definition of "Awful Kickstarter" is nothing more than "Kickstarter I don't want to back." It's almost like that's the actual purpose of this thread, to make fun of kickstarters that look dumb to you!  You seem like someone who's salty about having actually backed it while most of the internet makes fun of it.
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Jul 30, 2015 20:37
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Noyemi K posted:You seem like someone who's salty about having actually backed it. I've never backed a Kickstarter, and Red Ash isn't really my type of game in the first place. So not only did you miss the point of my post, but you also fail in your attempt at being psychic. I have experience with talking to lots of indie game devs about funding If I wanted to take part in uninformed internet mob mentality then I'd go to 4chan or Reddit. I expect more from SA. I'm sure Infafune's gonna run off with $800,000 any day now. That's the only thing that makes sense. It's not like he has a team of people who make the game who draw a salary or anything. No, he must be spending it on hookers and blow. That's the question I'm really perplexed about. There's a bunch of people doing next level Glenn Beck-esque "JUST ASKING QUESTIONS!" routines who won't ever say what they're concerned about. So you say "most of the internet is making fun of it." Why are they making fun of it? It looks like a dumb anime thing I guess, but do YOU think Inafune's gonna run off with the $800,000 if they make their goal? ErIog has a new favorite as of 21:08 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 20:41
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ErIog posted:DoubleFine is a great example of this. It was probably the most transparent a company has ever been about real budgets for game dev, and people still had loving insane conspiracy theories and axes to grind over it. After that poo poo happened, I really can't blame any company that wants to say, "You either trust us based on our reputation or you don't. We're not giving you budget information because you don't need to know." There's nothing to be gained by being transparent so companies aren't doing it. I can certainly understand that it falls under the old cliché of how no-one wants to see how the sausage is made, and how most devs don't really want that part exposed, but still…
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Jul 30, 2015 20:54
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Tippis posted:On the other hand, the documentary series from DFA is probably the best value for money I've ever had from Kickstarter — a few episodes in and the game was almost incidental. Granted, it might not have been what they were actually selling in their pitch, and it certainly gave some backers all kinds of exotic ammunition to fire at the devs, but it was actually something I'd like to see more of. I watched the DFA documentary when it was released for free on YouTube recently, and I enjoyed it a lot. The problem that happened with it is that since it was initially only available to backers you had this weird thing where people who hadn't backed were making crazy claims because they couldn't have possibly been informed due to not having paid money to access the information being given to backers. I think Tim actually acknowledges this as a problem at one point in the documentary. It's good for people to become educated about game dev, but some people don't really want to be educated. Some people just don't like Tim Schafer and don't really care that the only reason they can have such detailed criticisms of how he runs is company is because Tim Schafer bothered to be transparent in the first place.
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Jul 30, 2015 21:00
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I have never backed a video game kickstarter, and I'm starting to think that's a good decision.
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Jul 30, 2015 21:03
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ErIog posted:I've never backed a Kickstarter, and Red Ash isn't really my type of game in the first place. So not only did you miss the point of my post, but you also fail in your attempt at being psychic. Hey, you said a thing in righteous indignation, guess I should accept it without question I guess. As to my personal reason for thinking it's a bad kickstarter, it's fairly obvious Inafune's counting his golden eggs before he has any chickens. First, we get a foggy presentation about a game with no clear concept of what they're trying to do. MN9 isn't even out yet, and took multiple funding passes to create what looks to many, to be a lackluster game. Then, we get shady stuff like, on the last day of the Shenmue III KS, having a "ONE DAY ONLY!!!!" backer deal for the full game before offering it at $80. Next, we get a "prototype" that doesn't really show anything but placeholder assets and a lovely control scheme where you kick a motherfucking can. Of all things, you choose this KS as the hill you wish to die on, and even if you truly aren't a backer who's getting mad people are making fun of your precious KS, it comes off that way after all the bullshit surrounding Red Ash is taken into account. Most of your responses haven't even been reasoned arguments about why it's not actually a bad KS, it's all been "B-but you sp-sp-spend money on stupid stuff too!!"  OldMemes posted:I have never backed a video game kickstarter, and I'm starting to think that's a good decision. Agreed, though I did back a hotdog man
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Jul 30, 2015 21:07
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Noyemi K posted:As to my personal reason for thinking it's a bad kickstarter, it's fairly obvious Inafune's counting his golden eggs before he has any chickens. First, we get a foggy presentation about a game with no clear concept of what they're trying to do. MN9 isn't even out yet, and took multiple funding passes to create what looks to many, to be a lackluster game. Then, we get shady stuff like, on the last day of the Shenmue III KS, having a "ONE DAY ONLY!!!!" backer deal for the full game before offering it at $80. Next, we get a "prototype" that doesn't really show anything but placeholder assets and a lovely control scheme where you kick a motherfucking can. Thank you for finally posting why you think it's a bad Kickstarter rather than continuing to post a bunch of spurious bullshit conspiracy theories about a mysterious source of full funding. Noyemi K posted:Most of your responses haven't even been reasoned arguments about why it's not actually a bad KS, it's all been "B-but you sp-sp-spend money on stupid stuff too!!" Yeah, this is true. People who were arguing with me weren't really bringing anything more to the table than that until you finally posted your explanation. ErIog has a new favorite as of 21:20 on Jul 30, 2015 |
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Jul 30, 2015 21:18
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GrandpaPants posted:"Proper publisher" is a bit of a stretch: So they're being published by a company that makes an OUYA clone. Nice. ErIog posted:Thank you for finally posting why you think it's a bad Kickstarter rather than continuing to post a bunch of spurious bullshit conspiracy theories about a mysterious source of full funding. Wrong thread.
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Jul 30, 2015 21:19
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ErIog posted:Thank you for finally posting why you think it's a bad Kickstarter rather than continuing to post a bunch of spurious bullshit conspiracy theories about a mysterious source of full funding. lol dude, post less words. OldMemes posted:I have never backed a video game kickstarter, and I'm starting to think that's a good decision. I have only backed the Barkley sequel and that is because even if the game never came out I would want those guys to have my $15 just for being cool.
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Jul 30, 2015 21:34
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ErIog posted:Thank you for finally posting why you think it's a bad Kickstarter rather than continuing to post a bunch of spurious bullshit conspiracy theories about a mysterious source of full funding. Literally nobody in the thread has done this ErIog posted:They're not acting shady, though. They're acting like a business that has a project they need funding to make. If you can point out where they've lied then I'd be willing to go down this road with you, people do not have to lie in order to qualify as "acting shady" also you're not very good at critical thinking
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Jul 30, 2015 22:22
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Cool interesting opinions about the japanese cartoon videogame itt
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Jul 30, 2015 23:16
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Kickstarter would be great if investors got a percentage of the profits instead of just throwing their money away
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Jul 30, 2015 23:39
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theflyingorc posted:lol dude, post less words. On that note, does anyone believe that Barkley 2 is ever coming out at this point?
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Jul 31, 2015 00:11
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Kaizoku posted:On that note, does anyone believe that Barkley 2 is ever coming out at this point?
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Jul 31, 2015 00:29
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Asimo posted:I didn't believe it would come out when I backed it. way to waste your money shithead
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Jul 31, 2015 00:30
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I actually looked at the Kickstarter that this stupid rear end debate is over and it has 3 days left and is not even two thirds to funded, with a total of a little under $490K (of $800k). You only get to run away with the money if you collect your goal. It could be possible he got another investor so his game would still get made when the Kickstarter, inevitably, went down in flames (looking at Kicktraq the looming failure could be seen from a ways off). Kicktraq has it estimated to make a whopping 69% of its funding goal by the time it ends. This is a stupid semantic argument about a lovely Kickstarter so lovely it isn't even getting funded by any Kickstarter money at all. The idiots who put up their money idiotically have been saved by the heavens themselves! anticake has a new favorite as of 00:58 on Jul 31, 2015 |
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Jul 31, 2015 00:55
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Kickstarter should be a crowed funded investment. Why should I give anyone money to make something they will make money off of unless I get a little when they become millionaires?
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Jul 31, 2015 00:58
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Kaizoku posted:On that note, does anyone believe that Barkley 2 is ever coming out at this point? I believe that something will eventually come out of Barkley 2.
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Jul 31, 2015 01:33
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senrath posted:I believe that something will eventually come out of Barkley 2. I love your optimism
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Jul 31, 2015 01:34
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:I love your optimism Hey, I never said I expected a game to come out of it.
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Jul 31, 2015 02:06
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Mumpy Puffinz posted:Kickstarter should be a crowed funded investment. Crow money is honestly a severely underutilized form of funding.
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Jul 31, 2015 02:06
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amusinginquiry posted:Crow money is honestly a severely underutilized form of funding. at least they get something back
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Jul 31, 2015 02:08
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amusinginquiry posted:Crow money is honestly a severely underutilized form of funding. Will our profits soar as high?
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Jul 31, 2015 02:14
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Noyemi K posted::
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Jul 31, 2015 02:42
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