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Yeah, I remember the little sting at the end of BatGordon's first issue. Haven't read one since then, for no real reason. Honestly I half expected Snyder to bring Joker back first.
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Aug 8, 2015 00:39
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Travis343 posted:I know he's got a superpowered Siri chair now, is he seriously already back in Snyder's book too? Christ. In Batman it's confirmed that Bruce is still alive and is just faking Batman's death while staying out of public eye.
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Aug 8, 2015 00:40
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Travis343 posted:I know he's got a superpowered Siri chair now, is he seriously already back in Snyder's book too? Christ. JL is in some nebulous continuity place all of it's own. Since Endgame Bruce has been chilling on the DL helping out at a community center with a beard and his childhood girlfriend who Alfred turned away from him at the end of Zero Year, so he's all at peace not being Batman. It's surely happily ever after since Jim is now BM forever. e: Speaking of, Batman #43 preview http://www.comicvine.com/articles/exclusive-preview-batman-43/1100-153163/ Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 00:43
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Travis343 posted:The art would be pretty good if the costume designs weren't so completely poo poo. How the hell is Bruce OK with Jason running around with guns and trading on his status as a Bat-partner to get hired to shoot people? Or poo poo, since Bruce is dead, why hasn't literally any other Bat-family member showed up to shut this enterprise down? Some things need to be clarified here: this issue is the first time they have tried the whole "vigilantes for hire" schtick so openly. Before this they were doing the usual trade if busting cartels and crime anywhere and tried a contract with a Washington power broker. The whole thing is Roy's idea and he's the one selling the Batman connection to the public, not Jason. Jason is going with the idea because he's supporting Roy (the preview outright states they're on opposite sides of the spectrum about hiring their services) The Red Bat has never bothered me and I really like his new suit, different strokes I guess. Still, a symbol doesn't define a character; take Dick's current status for example. While Nightwing is one of the best examples of a supporting character growing to be his own man, the secret agent stuff is a regression of this status. So far there hasn't been an issue where Dick is treated as his own man, is always according to his past with Bruce, even his code name (agent 37) is about Batman, not him.
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Aug 8, 2015 00:43
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WickedHate posted:Agreed, unironically. 2edgy4me
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Aug 8, 2015 01:00
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It's pretty jarring that Rucka had Batwoman adopting the bat be a big deal, she treats it as seriously as a military code, and Dick even confronts her basically to say "This poo poo means something, so do it right" and yet Jason literally does the one thing custom-designed to disgust Bruce, that's completely antithetical to the concept of Batman, and he's allowed to run around with the thing on his t-shirt.
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Aug 8, 2015 02:14
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"I never trusted anyone as much as I trust Roy Harper" Every time you post a preview and there's dialogue like that I just wanna know when Lobdell's gonna drop the pretenses and have those two declare their love for each other already.
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Aug 8, 2015 02:46
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I want that to happen, but because it'd be cool.
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Aug 8, 2015 02:56
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WickedHate posted:I can't even think of any non-terrible normal militaries but I don't see you shouting down any and all stories where soldiers work directly for a government. There isn't even an iota of comparison between PMCs and regular militaries. Your average RPG hero is actually an incredibly lovely person who the plot diverts around (unless they don't and actually point out how lovely they are.)
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Aug 8, 2015 02:58
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ImpAtom posted:There isn't even an iota of comparison between PMCs and regular militaries. Regular militaries are constantly committing atrocities like it's a sport. I'm not bringing this up to defend real PMCs, they all suck, but so does a lot of things in this world that no cares about in fiction because Red Hood didn't become a US marine. Jason and Roy aren't any different than Luke and Danny.
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Aug 8, 2015 03:06
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WickedHate posted:Regular militaries are constantly committing atrocities like it's a sport. I'm not bringing this up to defend real PMCs, they all suck, but so does a lot of things in this world that no cares about in fiction because Red Hood didn't become a US marine. Jason and Roy aren't any different than Luke and Danny. They don't kill and are not above the law. Then are PI not mercenaries
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Aug 8, 2015 05:42
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Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
Huh so Roy has Roy's appearance and that's it as far as his character relates to his old version. Not as bad as Wally but still pretty bad. They should do what young Justice did and make this Roy a clone. (But do the opposite of how the clones were in the show.) Question does this Roy even know Cheshire.
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Aug 8, 2015 05:52
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bobkatt013 posted:They don't kill and are not above the law. Then are PI not mercenaries "Killing" and "not killing" is details. It's still the same kind of job. No one is calling Luke and Danny "Blackwater if they used rubber bullets" because they aren't anything like real life PMCs and they still wouldn't be if they killed.
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Aug 8, 2015 05:54
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WickedHate posted:"Killing" and "not killing" is details. It's still the same kind of job. No one is calling Luke and Danny "Blackwater if they used rubber bullets" because they aren't anything like real life PMCs and they still wouldn't be if they killed. Actually Killing vs Not killing is a pretty big detail. It's the difference between being a duo that kills people for money, a job that makes one an assassin or mercenary. And doing what Luke and Denny do, helping people out and capturing criminals for money. Pretty much I would put Todd and Roy on the Evil side here and Luke and Denny on the kinda good to neutral side. (As doing it for free would be more hero like.)
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Aug 8, 2015 06:04
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WickedHate posted:"Killing" and "not killing" is details. No, it really isn't. It's absolutely not. Superheroes already tread the line real close to being gross power fantasies about how people wish they had power so they could hurt those they've deemed 'bad'. The willingness to focus on rehabilitation and mercy is a big part of why they don't cross that line. (And even then it's pretty iffy depending on the story.)
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Aug 8, 2015 06:12
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MonsterEnvy posted:Huh so Roy has Roy's appearance and that's it as far as his character relates to his old version. Not as bad as Wally but still pretty bad. Nope! And thank god for that, Cheshire is an awful character. Well to be fair, Tynion tried to push that angle by introducing Cheshire but his whole run is a steaming pile of poo poo and has been swept under the rug by Lobdell, effectively retconning Cheshire from Roy's life. By the way, N52 Jason also differs a lot from the pre Flashpoint version. MonsterEnvy posted:I would put Todd and Roy on the Evil side here and Luke and Denny on the kinda good to neutral side. (As doing it for free would be more hero like.) Worth noticing that we haven't seen Jason and Roy killing people under contract (yet at least). Tara hired them only to swipe a thumbdrive from a shady diplomat. All the killing done by the guys on panel has been their usual vigilante stuff. TwoPair posted:"I never trusted anyone as much as I trust Roy Harper"   But seriously, their interactions are just the usual for a buddy team story. Tumblr is having a filed day with the series of course but tehy don't need a reason to start with the shipping.
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Aug 8, 2015 06:15
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Well I am glad Jason not on board. (The hell is Roy taking about legally.) Also I just learned they killed off Nu Wally West. I did not like the kid but that seems like a crappy thing to do.
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Aug 8, 2015 06:17
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MonsterEnvy posted:Well I am glad Jason not on board. (The hell is Roy taking about legally.) He died in the future I think so he isn't really dead but also isn't really Kid Flash?
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Aug 8, 2015 06:20
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CW just cast a black actor as Wally on the Flash tv series so it's probably that Wally will still be the new version we just got.
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Aug 8, 2015 06:21
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MonsterEnvy posted:Also I just learned they killed off Nu Wally West. I did not like the kid but that seems like a crappy thing to do. They killed an alternate version of him (one that was already the Flash and not a massive jerk) The present version will return on Flash's september issue MonsterEnvy posted:Well I am glad Jason not on board. (The hell is Roy taking about legally.) Roy is trying to justify his ideas by saying is all about the money but is pretty blatant he's doing it for the attention they would receive. This Roy is an attention whore and he has had a lot of issues to deal with Kori leaving him, so he's trying to cope by becoming the center of attention. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 06:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:Actually Killing vs Not killing is a pretty big detail. It's the difference between being a duo that kills people for money, a job that makes one an assassin or mercenary. And doing what Luke and Denny do, helping people out and capturing criminals for money. Jason and Roy help people just as much. MonsterEnvy posted:(As doing it for free would be more hero like.) If it's not like this  or those firefighters who sat outside a fire but wouldn't put it out over a fee, I don't see the problem with taking comissions. Don't get me wrong; I hate capitalism. But it's jumping to the worst possible conclusion to assume that anyone who heroes as a job as well as out of the goodness of their heart must be horrible greedy monsters. It's just accepting quest rewards outside of a video game. Again, Angel Investigations is pretty much the perfect execution of this for me and the whole set up is a great way to kickstart plots.
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Aug 8, 2015 06:22
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You only hate capitalism because you're a fascist who wants superman to rule the world with an iron fist and torture people you deem "evil" so shut the hell up, WickedHate
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Aug 8, 2015 14:10
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Geoff Johns' Justice League has been pretty awesome. It started off terrible (I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't generally like Chris Sims' opinion pieces on comicsalliance, however his JL #1 piece about how it's everything bad in comics was spot on), but by the time you got to Throne of Atlantis it got quite good. Trinity War was a mess, but the Forever Evil event and the JL tie-ins (plus the relevant Villains Month one-shots) really worked well together. The Injustice League and Amazo Virus arcs were great, and I've been enjoying the Darkseid War so far. It's not perfect, every now and then there's a minor detail that's dumb (for example, I hate Scot Edit: Here's the Sims piece I mentioned Dario the Wop fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 14:45
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Dario the Wop posted:Geoff Johns' Justice League has been pretty awesome. It started off terrible (I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't generally like Chris Sims' opinion pieces on comicsalliance, however his JL #1 piece about how it's everything bad in comics was spot on), but by the time you got to Throne of Atlantis it got quite good. Trinity War was a mess, but the Forever Evil event and the JL tie-ins (plus the relevant Villains Month one-shots) really worked well together. The Injustice League and Amazo Virus arcs were great, and I've been enjoying the Darkseid War so far. It's not perfect, every now and then there's a minor detail that's dumb (for example, I hate Scot Yeah, JL is pretty good right, and I think Jason Fabok deserves a lot credit for his work on the book. He may not be the most revolutionary comic book artist, but drat does he know how to draw an action scene.
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Aug 8, 2015 15:30
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Dario the Wop posted:Geoff Johns' Justice League has been pretty awesome. It started off terrible (I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't generally like Chris Sims' opinion pieces on comicsalliance, however his JL #1 piece about how it's everything bad in comics was spot on), but by the time you got to Throne of Atlantis it got quite good. Trinity War was a mess, but the Forever Evil event and the JL tie-ins (plus the relevant Villains Month one-shots) really worked well together. The Injustice League and Amazo Virus arcs were great, and I've been enjoying the Darkseid War so far. It's not perfect, every now and then there's a minor detail that's dumb (for example, I hate Scot I tried to get back into it with Darkseid War, but between the Mobius Chair's origin story, the revelation that Metron gets all of his knowledge from the chair and the introduction of Darkseid's eeeeeeevil daughter, I had to put it down. Why is it so hard for DC writers to get the New Gods right? 
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Aug 8, 2015 16:14
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Black Lighter posted:Why is it so hard for DC writers to get the New Gods right? Because they keep trying to change them. Which I kind of see the point of because (*edgy* opinion incoming) a lot of the New Gods are kind of boring? I mean there's Darkseid, Mr. Miracle, Big Barda, Orion and... I guess Metron (all he does is sit in a chair and look cool). And the rest are just kinda there. I mean I guess there's a lot of neat characters on Apokolips but most of them almost come off like Darkseid's mooks more than their own characters. Anyway feel free to tear me limb from limb now.
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Aug 8, 2015 18:18
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Well, the New Gods were never meant to go past the 70's. They were Kirby's interpretation of the counter-culture movement, and were designed to be a finite story with a beginning, middle, and end. Since that's not happening, I would also say the New Gods should be redesigned and evolve over time. As far as why DC never gets them right? Well, every now and then they do. But I agree most of the time they don't. Honestly the people that have run DC for the past 10 years or so seem to have genuine contempt and insecurity towards most of their properties. They don't look at them as anything but through a '90s Marvel/Image-esque lens, so they embarrass themselves trying to make them "realistic" and "cool." Mark Waid once said something to the extent of "fun is a dirty word at DC Comics." It used to depress me, but by the time they gave up on New 52 I turned a corner and now I just try to enjoy what I can and forget the rest. Regarding New Gods in JL, well... I like this a hell of a lot more than GodHead. And hell yeah, Fabok rocks. I should've mentioned the art too. Good call.
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Aug 8, 2015 19:14
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I don't think the usage of the New Gods in Justice League is any worse than how the DCAU used them, which people seemed to be fine with.
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Aug 8, 2015 19:24
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Travis343 posted:You only hate capitalism because you're a fascist who wants superman to rule the world with an iron fist and torture people you deem "evil" so shut the hell up, WickedHate Come on man, I'm not a fascist, that's nationalism. Capitalism sucks on it's own merits regardless of my ideology. It's a system of suffering and exploitation. Dario the Wop posted:Well, the New Gods were never meant to go past the 70's. They were Kirby's interpretation of the counter-culture movement, and were designed to be a finite story with a beginning, middle, and end. This is the biggest problem. Some concepts just aren't made to be streatched out and reused over and over. It's too bad the New Gods and a lot of other stuff in comics weren't allowed to be the stand alone story they were intended to be.
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Aug 8, 2015 20:21
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WickedHate posted:Come on man, I'm not a fascist, that's nationalism. wickedhate, you're not an idealologist. you're just an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 8, 2015 21:12
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Dario the Wop posted:Honestly the people that have run DC for the past 10 years or so seem to have genuine contempt and insecurity towards most of their properties. Dan Didio just wrote the Forever People series himself  I don't think it could've have been for any other reason than genuine affection. It would never have sold anything in anyone's wildest dreams. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Aug 8, 2015 |
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Aug 8, 2015 22:20
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Teenage Fansub posted:Dan Didio just wrote the Forever People series himself Space Cabbie should be a movie dammit. With a Lobo cameo.
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Aug 8, 2015 22:24
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He did the same with OMAC and The Metal Men. I'm sure he could have gotten decent writers on the respective series and story, but I appreciate that he put it on himself to make sure they were made.
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Aug 8, 2015 22:24
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Superman and Wonder Woman have had some of their best comics ever in the last few years. Not sure I follow.
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Aug 8, 2015 22:28
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I'm not expressing my points well (yeah, Morrison and Pak's Superman has been quite good; I'm in the minority on Azzarello's WW). I mean that DC is embarrassed of their characters and try desperately to market them by stripping away elements that made them fun or classic, particularly in movies and TV shows. Johns' Aquaman, which I genuinely enjoyed, spent a chunk of the first issue arguing the "talks to fish" cliche. They let the cliches and stereotypes control the narrative, so they always fight this uphill battle. "Superman is a god, he's boring and can't be interesting" say people who don't read comics, so they often approach the material that way.
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Aug 9, 2015 01:11
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Dario the Wop posted:I'm not expressing my points well (yeah, Morrison and Pak's Superman has been quite good; I'm in the minority on Azzarello's WW). I mean that DC is embarrassed of their characters and try desperately to market them by stripping away elements that made them fun or classic, particularly in movies and TV shows. That said, I would say you're not being fair to the shows. Arrow had a rough start, with being Green Batman, but they've already expressed their intent with wanting to make that show a little less heavy on the grit due to how well-received Flash was. Legends of Tomorrow from it's promo video looks like it'll be continuing with Flash's tone as well. The same people who produce those shows are also making Supergirl, which from trailer alone is going to be absolutely nothing like MoS in tone.
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Aug 9, 2015 01:21
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I came into this thread trying to be positive, so I started with JL, and I found myself going into the negative. Sorry. It's old fanboy grognard. I'll see myself out. 
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Aug 9, 2015 01:30
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Reminder when engaging WickedHate on superhero morality that she thinks Superman should take over earth and kill anyone who disagrees.
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Aug 9, 2015 03:00
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The DC that I've been reading and watching has mostly just been taking itself seriously and playing off its concepts with complete sincerity instead of feeling the need to poke fun at those ideas constantly. Other than Aquaman making a couple of talk to fish jokes at first which it quickly drops as it really gets going with its story I honestly don't see how any of it is embarrassed of itself. Also while we know that all new series will go for at least 12 issues Post-Convergence do we know if we have to wait that long for creative shifts? Because I really don't want another full year of Venditti and Booth on Flash or the Finches on Wonder Woman.
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Aug 9, 2015 03:28
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Geoff Johns is not embarrassed by Aquaman. There is no one on this loving planet who loves Aquaman more and wants other people to love him than Geoff Johns.
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Aug 9, 2015 03:45
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