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Judakel posted:
Maybe shame is... subjective? 
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Aug 8, 2015 21:32
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K. Waste posted:That sounds kinda reductive. Watch the documentary again. Even though it's not very good, you'll find that their motivations for pursuing it and staying with it have nothing to do with the 'ease' of sex work. Their motivations for pursuing it are money and fame. Regarding the former, more specifically the ease with which they believe they will attain large sums of money. They are perfectly capable of working other jobs and earning a living that way - as evidenced by the jobs they secure after leaving the industry - but they believe porn will earn them more with less effort. They are, of course, wrong. Health problems and bills eventually mount up. I find it interesting that you use the expression "staying with it", because most don't. In fact, it is explicitly stated that the shelf life of pro-am girls is very short. When the consequences begin to dawn on them, they stop doing. For the most part. I am not saying they are idiots either. They are immature and made a stupid choice, uninformed by any realistic assessment of their situation and aiming at unrealistic goals. Jade is giving the typical defensive spin on her actions. Her complaints about the shoot we witness in the film should tell you that she did not expect such difficult situations. I have no doubt that Jones and Co. are classists who fail to understand the tremendous allure of fame and wealth. They are also irresponsible for not questioning why we stigmatize women in porn/sexualized mainstream media. However, claiming that these girls went into porn due to a scarcity of jobs that pay living wages is silly.
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Aug 8, 2015 21:40
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Chichevache posted:Maybe shame is... subjective? "Demeaning".
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Aug 8, 2015 21:43
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As someone that has worked two pizza delivery jobs I can say that while it's less demeaning than being throat hosed, it's probably still way more stressful, less reliable and WAY more hours to make an equivalent amount of money.
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Aug 8, 2015 21:49
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axleblaze posted:As someone that has worked two pizza delivery jobs I can say that while it's less demeaning than being throat hosed how do you know
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Aug 8, 2015 21:51
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I have no problem with talking about the documentary, but enough of this stupid "this is actually demeaning" poo poo. It's gross.
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Aug 8, 2015 21:59
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:how do you know 
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Aug 8, 2015 22:26
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Judakel posted:Their motivations for pursuing it are money and fame. Regarding the former, more specifically the ease with which they believe they will attain large sums of money. They are perfectly capable of working other jobs and earning a living that way - as evidenced by the jobs they secure after leaving the industry - but they believe porn will earn them more with less effort. They are, of course, wrong. Health problems and bills eventually mount up. Except the girls don't discuss or address or frame their experiences in terms of ease, or the desire to be famous. Again, this is the reductive framework with which the filmmakers present the paradigmatic exploitation of women and their sexuality. "These idealized, 'pornographied' media depictions of sexuality convince these women that sex work is easy!" The pretense is that these young women just don't understand what sex is - which the documentary itself reduces to something fraught with limiting fantasies, medical dangers, typical scare-film stuff - even though this doesn't even address the more fundamental significance of sex on a purely personal level divorced from objective facts. This is epitomized in the scene where the girls discuss their shared experience of repressive, abstinence-emphasizing sex ed classes, another clear social and cultural problem that the girls actually address, and isn't merely 'read onto them' by the filmmakers. These girls only find it (relatively) easy to make the decision to engage in sex work, but that does not mean they think it will be easy. That is not motivation, that's merely what they are doing. On the other hand, when the girls do discuss sex work in contrast to their social options, it is never in terms of the perceived ease of one versus the other. Rather, it is always in terms of a Graduate-esque sense of social betrayal - from the sex (de-)ed classes to their feelings of indebtedness to their parents to their cynicism regarding the exploitation that is latent in the economic and social structures around them. The filmmakers could replace their sad-sack closing credits song with "The Sounds of Silence" and the "Wrecking Ball"/"Anaconda" music videos with clips of John Stewart going ape-poo poo on veteran's rights. They use motifs of fame and fortune because they reductively associate these abstracted images with the psychology of these young women monolithically. More existential concerns are treated exclusively as the purview of complicated male characters, while it's safe to assume that women just want money and find sex an easy hurdle to jump. Like many old squares, the makers of Hot Girls Wanted are just jealous of a sexual liberalism that the younger generation doesn't really have. The closest thing any of the girls get to framing porn as, like, this Avalon where they can just rest their vanity forever is when Karly expresses enthusiasm over how porn allows her to take on a new persona, but these larger than life personae are desirable without the pretense of easy wealth and fame. People sing in the shower, meticulously model themselves after their favorite pop culture icons, gallivant on holidays in drunken frenzy, they become actors and actresses. But that which we desire beyond fame or fortune is stability and security. These women are merely under the apprehension that sex work can get them this; but presumptions that they are motivated by a prestige of ease not only isn't substantiated by the documentary (which fails to show examples of precisely how these girls get the idea that sex work is easy, or ask them questions along these lines), and thus must be adopted and projected rather than read. quote:However, claiming that these girls went into porn due to a scarcity of jobs that pay living wages is silly. It's not silly. Regardless of whether or not you think Jade is just "giving the typical defensive spin on her actions," defensiveness does not preclude authenticity or honesty or self-awareness. You're fixated only on the sadism that you can see, not what Jade is saying, which is that she shouldn't be fetishized as a victim, but as one of the American landscape's many undervalued workers. And she is correct. Both the idealization and demonization of pornography are a mask of class struggle and repression.
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Aug 8, 2015 23:54
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Yes, they do explicitly discuss it in terms of being famous. You do not remember the film well enough to have this discussion. An attitude that getting paid to have sex is better than a regular job is pervasive throughout the entire film from these women. The pretense is that these young women don't understand what they have gotten themselves into and the consequences. The problems they endured and vocalized in the film had little to do with the filmmakers' framing. You do not understand the thesis of this film or exactly how much the filmmakers are actually responsible for. Relative ease is all we are talking about here. Your theory-driven assessment is blinding you and we are simply not going to see eye-to-eye on this as it relates to pro-am porn. Continue making the actions (which they later regret) of these women a product of inadequate wages if you wish. Judakel fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 01:23
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axleblaze posted:As someone that has worked two pizza delivery jobs I can say that while it's less demeaning than being throat hosed, it's probably still way more stressful, less reliable and WAY more hours to make an equivalent amount of money. It really varies wildly by area. I've worked for five different places, three of them the big three chains, in five different cities. When I did it last, this was 7 years ago, I never worked more than 30 hours in a week and made at least 15k in 8 months. As for being reliable, so many people quit driver jobs that it's as reliable as you want it to be, I found that it was always both easy to get the job (walk in, say you've done it before and your driving record is spotless, you will get hired that day) and easy to pick up hours (drivers call in sick a lot, because most of them are stoners/drinkers/in bands/etc - I was all three). As for stress, it's the most relaxing job I've ever had. Since the advent of cell phones it's nearly impossible to get lost (I actually delivered back in 2000 before I had a cell phone, and that was very stressful, because it was also before computers would print out the exact directions you needed to take to get to the location). If a customer yells at you, shrug it off - it never happened to me, even with SUPER late pies. Then again, people say I look like "a pissed off Mexican Marine", I guess because of the buzz cut and being vaguely in shape? I'm actually Cherokee, but whatever. If management yells at you, just say "there was traffic". I never drove exceptionally fast (5 mph over the speed limit at all times) and didn't feel the need to; I'm not being paid to risk my life and my car for a disc of melted shame. Sorry, that was a lot of words about pizza delivery. Maybe I should do an "ask me about delivery driving" thread, because I know way too loving much about it 
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Aug 9, 2015 03:35
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There's a Sense8 Making Of short up on netflix that I think is new? It's pretty fun, goes into detail about how crazy it was for the actors to have to arrive at all the 8 locations one after the other, and to even use some of their time in the air for shooting, and the actors never really being aware of what they were doing because they were doign all 12 episodes at the same time at each location as they arrived. I also didn't realize how much real world stuff they used, including the motorcycle-crash scene being filmed in the middle of the actual Pride parade in San Francisco. They also used local crews and talent (including big stars, I knew I recognized most of the Korean cast!) in each location. Chichevache posted:Maybe shame is... subjective?  Compensation largely depends on what kind of place you work for (ie guaranteed driver pay, plus tips, plus min, versus no driver fee, or cutting your min wage because of tips), as well as the population size and demographics/spacing. If you're in a smallish-medium sized town with only one or two options you can pull in a pretty decent amount of cash most nights, especially in college towns and the like. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Aug 9, 2015 |
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Aug 9, 2015 04:17
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Also a bunch of new /+ terrible Nicholas Cage movies is up. The Outcast is really terrible, and I've never seen Windtalkers but I love the teaser picture which is Nicky Cage running toward the camera with a Navajo guy on his back, while Cage screams silently.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:26
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coyo7e posted:Also a bunch of new /+ terrible Nicholas Cage movies is up. The Outcast is really terrible, and I've never seen Windtalkers but I love the teaser picture which is Nicky Cage running toward the camera with a Navajo guy on his back, while Cage screams silently. Windtalkers is a WWII movie directed by John Woo. I feel this is important to know.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:48
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girth brooks part 2 posted:Windtalkers is a WWII movie directed by John Woo. I feel this is important to know. I am going to watch this tonight.
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Aug 9, 2015 04:53
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I have definitely seen Windtalkers, but I can't tell you if it was good or bad. It's not very inspired like some of Woo's other American efforts, like Hard Target or the masterpiece that Face/Off is, and is overall forgettable.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:04
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For those of you who like Stephen Chow's stuff (Kung Fu Hustle, Shaolin Soccer), there is an older film of his called King of Comedy on Netflix. He plays his typical underdog loser character who's trying to break into film acting but can only work as an extra, usually with disastrous results. There are homage/parodies of John Woo and Bruce Lee films in there that are hysterical. It's a bit less funny than his best stuff as a good portion is devoted to the sappy romance at the center of the film, but worth a watch if you like Stephen Chow.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:17
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coyo7e posted:Also a bunch of new /+ terrible Nicholas Cage movies is up. The Outcast is really terrible, and I've never seen Windtalkers but I love the teaser picture which is Nicky Cage running toward the camera with a Navajo guy on his back, while Cage screams silently. Windtalkers was pretty bad. I like hearing Navajo though, so that was pretty cool.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:26
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girth brooks part 2 posted:Windtalkers is a WWII movie directed by John Woo. I feel this is important to know. It's a paint by numbers WW2 action epic that falls flat in every possible way.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:26
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Windtalkers is cartoonishly bad.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:36
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Well that's disappointing
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Aug 9, 2015 05:42
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Well NOW what am I supposed to watch, thread?!
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Aug 9, 2015 05:51
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precision posted:Well NOW what am I supposed to watch, thread?! Just watched 13 Assassins. That was pretty dope.
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Aug 9, 2015 05:51
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precision posted:Well NOW what am I supposed to watch, thread?! A Nightmare on Elm Street
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Aug 9, 2015 05:53
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Just watched 13 Assassins. That was pretty dope. Been in my queue for a while, good job. 
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Aug 9, 2015 05:56
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:Just watched 13 Assassins. That was pretty dope. This is a favorite of mine. 
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Aug 9, 2015 05:56
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precision posted:Well NOW what am I supposed to watch, thread?! Marathon 25 episodes of Reading Rainbow
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Aug 9, 2015 06:12
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Erebus posted:Marathon 25 episodes of Reading Rainbow Not a bad idea but you don't have to take my word for it.
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Aug 9, 2015 06:43
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I actually ended up watching Welcome To Me which, goddamn, give Kristen Wiig all the awards for that poo poo. 
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Aug 9, 2015 07:20
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Did anyone see undisputed which is laying around on Netflix? it had a weird choice for a boxing film in telling the audience multiple times the plucky underdog is probably actually going to win. It tricked me into thinking the antagonist was actually the protagonist for like 90% of the film.
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Aug 9, 2015 10:17
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precision posted:Well NOW what am I supposed to watch, thread?! Well The Killer is still up on Netflix so you could catch a good John Woo one there.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:11
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Stairmaster posted:Did anyone see undisputed which is laying around on Netflix? it had a weird choice for a boxing film in telling the audience multiple times the plucky underdog is probably actually going to win. It tricked me into thinking the antagonist was actually the protagonist for like 90% of the film. The Snipes/Rhames movie? One of the best action movies of the early 90's, and every single sequel pretty much owns.
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Aug 9, 2015 11:40
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:The Snipes/Rhames movie? One of the best action movies of the early 90's, and every single sequel pretty much owns. Yes, agreed. Although I have only watched the first in the series I remember catching it late one night on tv and being blown away by not only the amazing action sequences but also the never ending emotional twists and turns. Its right up there with TimeCop and Tango&Cash
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Aug 9, 2015 13:14
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Early 2000's I meant to say. Early 90's Snipes in that movie would've been insane.
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Aug 9, 2015 13:22
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Stairmaster posted:Did anyone see undisputed which is laying around on Netflix? it had a weird choice for a boxing film in telling the audience multiple times the plucky underdog is probably actually going to win. It tricked me into thinking the antagonist was actually the protagonist for like 90% of the film. Walter Hill is one of my favorite all time directors. Check out his 1975 Charles Bronson/James Coburn boxing movie Hard Times.
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Aug 9, 2015 16:27
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You pigs should watch the Skeleton Twins. s'good
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Aug 9, 2015 16:49
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Is Hurt Locker any good Staten Island Summer is up if you just finished binging Wet Hot American Summer and need more wacky camp hijinks. It's somewhere between Adventureland and Superbad
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Aug 9, 2015 19:05
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Hurt locker is good, yeah. Really good, in fact.
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Aug 9, 2015 19:08
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Regarding Lost Souls, I liked it a lot, but unlike most folks, I also like the Island of Dr. Moreau. I remember when it came out, there were stories about Brando's script-via-earpiece, but that's the only craziness I heard. The rest of the movie, however, is batshit crazy on its own merit without having to know about the batshittery in the background. The mini-me was a freakshow, brando was a freakshow, Val Kilmer was crazy, it was all like a Fear and Loathing In Las Vegas goes Survivor or something. Seeing Lost Souls made me want to go back and watch the movie again.
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Aug 9, 2015 20:11
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magnificent7 posted:Regarding Lost Souls, I liked it a lot, but unlike most folks, I also like the Island of Dr. Moreau. I remember when it came out, there were stories about Brando's script-via-earpiece, but that's the only craziness I heard. You're in luck, its on Netflix!
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Aug 9, 2015 23:17
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ChineseConnection posted:You're in luck, its on Netflix! US Netflix only has the 1970's version, not the Marlon Brando version that Lost Soul is about.
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Aug 9, 2015 23:20
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