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the cleaveland is a special case all by itself though
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Aug 16, 2015 20:17
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yaay posted:I like the continuing emphasis itt that battleships are the idiot class when in fact they're easily the hardest to do well so far that I can tell, because you are such a massive loving target regardless of their class survivability. In order to be an asset to your team instead of a liability at any given time you have to juggle paying attention to torps from DDs that may or may not be nearby, torps from your friendly DDs who usually don't give a gently caress about anything but themselves, torps from torpedo bombers, HE spam from cruisers, and direct fire from other BBs. If you're not worthless you'll be trying to get close enough to minimise the effect of dispersion meaning you'll probably have to do at least half of these things at once. BBs aren't easy, sure, but they're still easier than a DD. Harder than CAs. I'd place them as the middle difficulty, unless you want to stick CVs in, who knows. BBs counter cruisers, and you should be making snacks of all cruisers you see who show their broadside. HE spam is a problem, but you can take skills to make it less painful, and pre-6 you should be closing in to get better accuracy. Everything until T6 shits out HE like candy, but T6 its only the Cleveland, and post 6 you'll only see Mogamis doing it, who are fairly squishy compared to the mystical citadel of the Cleveland. DDs counter BBs. This is a fact, intended to be the case. You can hate on DDs if you want, but you're missing the point pretty hardcore if you think "all it takes to do well in a DD is shoot torpedoes into chokepoints". That's about the least likely way to land torpedo hits. Don't travel without a cruiser or DD nearby that can peel off a DD threat, and focus on cruisers. I'd suggest ignoring enemy BBs unless they're close or low on HP, CAs are your main target and eliminating them gives you entire team a lot of breathing room, especially your own friendly DDs and CVs. And not being lit on fire every 2 seconds is nice too. If you think getting dunked by torpedoes is bad, wait until you meet high tier CVs and IJN CAs with 10km torps. BBs can do well, its just that the superstars right now in this game seem to be CAs and CVs. And if this rudder shift change goes through, expect things to become World of Cruisers for a long time. Edit:  How to play an IJN DD. Torps? What's a torp? Not featured: the 2 Clevelands I owned. Hazdoc fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 20:26
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BBs may or may not be the easiest class for people to play, but they are definitely the class to which idiots gravitate in my experience.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:31
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Pharnakes posted:BBs may or may not be the easiest class for people to play, but they are definitely the class to which idiots gravitate in my experience. Well it's just like heavy tanks in WoT. Idiots gravitate to them, and a well played one can loving flatten the enemy team, especially if they have competent support from a CA or 2 to handle lurking DDs and the ever present sky cancer.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:42
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Holy gently caress, I think I just got trolled hard.... And i'm the one who started it. I tried that whole: I think #Blacklivesmatter bit in chat and some guy was basically advocating that its perfectly fine that cops shoot people if they think that person may have a weapon.
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Aug 16, 2015 20:50
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For me the ranking for easiest to hardest ( or as in for my playing) goes something like CV, Cruiser , DD, BB. I don't really have to try to do well in destroyers or cruisers, I could sleep and play a carrior decently, but in a BB the carry is real, as in i have to loving carry every pubbie team.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:01
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There's a reason battleships do more damage per game than anything not carriers. Fires are annoying, but in practice individual cruisers are less of a threat to battleships than other battleships are, and much less than carriers. A battleship can be in trouble against multiple cruisers, but it's pretty excessive to expect them to win alone against multiple competent players. During the CBT head start for alpha players and the first bit of CBT, there was almost no reason to play anything other than a battleship. You could spend multiple minutes firing at a lower tier battleship without making a significant dent in its hit points, only to watch it turn its guns around and do more damage in one salvo than your "high dpm" cruiser had in four minutes. Torpedoes might as well not have existed, unless launched from suicidal range. It was an awful lot worse than playing battleships is now. It's hard to balance the game around ships with random exponential variation in their damage per hit. The repair ability takes too long to recharge and there are probably too many fires, but a big part of it is the lovely players sitting at maximum range refusing to engage. You have to get closer if you actually want to win the match, but getting closer results in you getting focused and your teammates fleeing. You'd have the same thing in a game with only battleships (except that you'd be losing health in big chunks due to citadel hits instead of catching fire). Dalael posted:Holy gently caress, I think I just got trolled hard.... And i'm the one who started it. That's all? There are a lot of white nationalists playing this game for some reason; usually #BlackLivesMatter gets straight up calls for genocide.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:33
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James Garfield posted:That's all? There are a lot of white nationalists playing this game for some reason; usually #BlackLivesMatter gets straight up calls for genocide. Not quite, the guy actually contacted me after the match, linking a video of some activist that goes through scenarios cops have to face. I should have took pictures of the chat and convo. :duh:
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Aug 16, 2015 21:35
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Unzip and Attack posted:Ok thanks for the insight. Seems like the devs really went whole hog with the "American X is better/worse than Japanese X" design philosophy on a lot of things.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:36
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Xae posted:The USN DD's typically have 2-3 KM where they are visible before they can fire torps. If you turn into the destroyer to present a small shilloute you can dodge almost all torpedoes. If you turn hard into the destroyer you prevent your secondaries from firing, prevent most if not all of your primaries from firing, and close distance even faster which puts yourself in the perfect spot to get point blank torped to the bottom of the ocean. The Cleveland can't cap a point in front of the entire enemy team, can't scout targets without being spotted in return, is over triple the size and substantially less mobile in every way, and can't drop a fan of high damage torps on anybody unfortunate enough to venture too close. US Destroyers aren't the only destroyers.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:37
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For me Cruisers tend to have higher average and higher peak damage games. Murmansk is at ~49.k average with a peak of 180k Only the Aoba and Cleveland have higher damage scores (my highest Cruisers). And the New Mexico/York aremy only BBs that come even close to the Murmansk. (Only T5  and T6  )
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Aug 16, 2015 21:37
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Warbadger posted:If you turn hard into the destroyer you prevent your secondaries from firing, prevent most if not all of your primaries from firing, and close distance even faster which puts yourself in the perfect spot to get point blank torped to the bottom of the ocean. If you turn into a destroyer you are probably going to get hit by 1 torpedo at most. Maybe 0 if dodge correctly. If you stay broadside you're going to get hit by a salvo of 4-8 torpedoes. Take the single torpedo hit, then kill him in the minute or more it takes him to reload the tubes.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:47
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Xae posted:If you turn into a destroyer you are probably going to get hit by 1 torpedo at most. Maybe 0 if dodge correctly. Which is why you're an idiot if you fire your torps before passing the BB in that situation. Let him close the distance, drop your torps as you pass him or when he turns to shoot at you. Inside 2km he isn't going to avoid any of them.
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Aug 16, 2015 21:56
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Warbadger posted:Which is why you're an idiot if you fire your torps before passing the BB in that situation. Let him close the distance, drop your torps as you pass him or when he turns to shoot at you. Inside 2km he isn't going to avoid any of them. If a Destroyer is making an open field charge at you for 5+ KM and surviving I think I spotted the problem.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:00
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Warbadger posted:If you turn hard into the destroyer you prevent your secondaries from firing, prevent most if not all of your primaries from firing, and close distance even faster which puts yourself in the perfect spot to get point blank torped to the bottom of the ocean. Destroyers haven't been able to cap a point in front of the enemy since OBT when they gimped smoke. Since they also massively increased the chance to get your engine shot out, being spotted while in range of a Cleveland generally leads to you surviving about two salvoes. I don't remember the link but that chart with the average xp per game stats clearly puts destroyers lowest of the 4 classes at every tier, and carriers the highest. It amazes me that people still complain about destroyers when basically every balance change for the last five patches has had a negative impact on them.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:01
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Fires must suddenly become a huge deal at higher tiers, because I have yet to take a significant amount of damage from fire. As in I don't think I've ever lost more than 10% of my health from fire.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:06
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Astroniomix posted:Fires must suddenly become a huge deal at higher tiers, because I have yet to take a significant amount of damage from fire. As in I don't think I've ever lost more than 10% of my health from fire. You'll understand when you fight Clevelands, who will consistently keep all 3 of your fire spots on fire.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:06
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Xae posted:If a Destroyer is making an open field charge at you for 5+ KM and surviving I think I spotted the problem. If a BB tries to charge a remotely competent DD he'll stop having problems very abruptly. Doesn't take long to close 5km if the idiot in the BB heads straight at you. Scikar posted:Destroyers haven't been able to cap a point in front of the enemy since OBT when they gimped smoke. Since they also massively increased the chance to get your engine shot out, being spotted while in range of a Cleveland generally leads to you surviving about two salvoes. Turn off your AAA and stop shooting guns. If they park a plane over you or rush your smoke, you should probably leave (in a not-straight-line).
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Aug 16, 2015 22:24
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Astroniomix posted:Fires must suddenly become a huge deal at higher tiers, because I have yet to take a significant amount of damage from fire. As in I don't think I've ever lost more than 10% of my health from fire. Some of the mid level cruisers have a really good combination of high rate of fire and high chance of fire that gets absurd at times. The Omaha and Cleveland in particular.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:25
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Warbadger posted:Turn off your AAA and stop shooting guns. If they park a plane over you or rush your smoke, you should probably leave (in a not-straight-line). Yes I know how to play DD thanks. It's almost as though you understand the reasons why a DD can't just cap any point he wants to without being stopped.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:29
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Warbadger posted:Which is why you're an idiot if you fire your torps before passing the BB in that situation. Let him close the distance, drop your torps as you pass him or when he turns to shoot at you. Inside 2km he isn't going to avoid any of them. ? You heavily overestimate the success chances of an open water rush. I do them -a lot- and I typically don't survive them (though I do get some sick torp frags). Secondary fire gets more accurate as you get closer, overpens still do damage, and BB shotguns at point blank are pretty fatal (and they'll get even worse when the increased accuracy at 3km change goes in). A lone BB may get dumpstered by an open water rush if it gets blasted by dispersion or has his guns pointed the wrong way, but have even ONE CA with you and that DD will likely be dead before he can close to 4KM. Dropping torpedoes at point blank is a great way to die before launching ANY torpedoes.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:37
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Scikar posted:Yes I know how to play DD thanks. It's almost as though you understand the reasons why a DD can't just cap any point he wants to without being stopped. It's a lot easier to stop a cruiser/BB from capping by shelling the gently caress out of him at your leisure by spotting and shooting him at whatever distance you want, than it is having to charge a cap to chase a hidden DD out of it. That's without even going into the various caps that are confined DD murderboxes.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:44
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Night10194 posted:You'll understand when you fight Clevelands, who will consistently keep all 3 of your fire spots on fire. That's what I'm getting at though, any time I'm in a situation where something is keeping me on fire there's enough incoming damage just from the shells that the fire never has time to do a significant amount of damage, and any time I'm not getting snadblasted by endless waves of HE/AP fires aren't a problem. Clevelands blasting their way through entire teams is definitely a thing though.
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Aug 16, 2015 22:53
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Hazdoc posted:? I'm not estimating anything. I'll make a run in for torps if I find a lone BB and have had pretty great success in the first 6 tiers. If the dude turns away, I'm probably just going to launch torps and disengage. In the rare cases a BB turns into me after I'm spotted, though? I'm going straight in. I haven't had much trouble putting torps into the sides of things in that scenario and at worst he may land a salvo on me before exploding. And yeah, if it's just you against a couple ships including one that's designed to gently caress up DDs of course it's not going to end well. But as the hard to spot and faster ship you usually have the choice of whether to engage or not. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 22:56
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Just had a Cleveland game where I shot down 37 planes, roughly 100k damage and 2 kills. We still lost of course.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:07
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Is there any talk of future game modes? and if yes, how far down, i'm guessing probably well after OBT. Also i was hugging an island and torpedo planes dropped torpedo's between me and the island and blew me up, i'm pretty bad, but holy poo poo what the gently caress. You couldn't even fit half a tier 1 boat in between me and the island. VietCampo fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Aug 16, 2015 |
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Aug 16, 2015 23:08
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Is there a way to fix the units things are measured in? Knots don't mean poo poo to me when all distance is in KM.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:10
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Xae posted:Is there a way to fix the units things are measured in? 1 kt equates to 1.85 kph. Not that this will actually help you, because there's definitely time compression going on, and the amount varies depending on what it is. Like torpedoes are only barely faster than destroyers, despite their listed speed being nearly double.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:14
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Warbadger posted:It's a lot easier to stop a cruiser/BB from capping by shelling the gently caress out of him at your leisure by spotting and shooting him at whatever distance you want, than it is having to charge a cap to chase a hidden DD out of it. That's without even going into the various caps that are confined DD murderboxes. Ah, so that's what you meant when you said a DD "can cap a point under the entire enemy team"? I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue here since the points in domination only exist to provide something to fight over. A DD capping a point provides only a minor benefit compared to a Cleveland sinking that destroyer and then proceeding to set fire to an enemy battleship and shoot down a bunch of planes. Like I said, there's a reason destroyers have the lowest average experience at each tier.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:26
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I'm pretty sure destroyers having the lowest exp is because 99% of people who play them are mouth breathing retards that charge at larger ships by themselves.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:31
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VietCampo posted:I'm pretty sure destroyers having the lowest exp is because 99% of people who play them are mouth breathing retards that charge at larger ships by themselves.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:43
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VietCampo posted:I'm pretty sure destroyers having the lowest exp is because 99% of people who play them are mouth breathing retards that charge at larger ships by themselves. They're also lower when you look at only the top 10% of players.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:47
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VietCampo posted:I'm pretty sure destroyers having the lowest exp is because 99% of people who play them are mouth breathing retards that charge at larger ships by themselves. You know what irks me most of all? I feel like destroyers with their high speed, great agility and low detectability range should be a mid/late game threat to carriers, the way scout tanks are to arty in WoT. But they are not for a bunch of reasons.
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Aug 16, 2015 23:49
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cheese posted:No I'm pretty sure they have the lowest XP because they have zero armor, very low hitpoints, guns that are short range with low penetration that do low damage and a primary weapon system that generally requires well timed island ambushes or other players to be afk/functionally retarded. Their reward for all of these sacrifices is slightly higher speed than cruisers and a low visibility range that is negated once that +1 tier carrier parks his fighters over you for multiple minutes straight. It is the classic paper tiger but in this game, its claws are slow and difficult to use. the worst thing is they're the most fun ships to use 
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Aug 16, 2015 23:58
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Xae posted:No one has the balls to be the first ship so everyone sits at max range and snipes ineffectively. Every time I try to be the first ship, no one has the balls to be the second ship. 
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Aug 17, 2015 00:03
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Throbbing blob posted:the worst thing is they're the most fun ships to use They should have a survivial-horror mode. You have a convoy of 6 Battleships and 6 Cruisers who have to run through some island clusterfuck against a bunch of destroyers. At night.
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Aug 17, 2015 00:10
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I had a game earlier that I feel encapsulates the entire breadth of the destroyer experience: Double kill Double Devastating Strike Double Just a Flesh Wound  At the best of times, it's like the video game equivalent of being one of the lancers from Fury Road.
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Aug 17, 2015 00:42
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What's wrong with this picture?  This chucklefuck was dual-boxing his Langley with his Atago. Ended up in a T9 game on the Ice map. Parked his Atago next to his Langley, and just sat there. When he ran out of planes, then he started moving the Atago.  Beware this special-with-a-helmet idiot.
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Aug 17, 2015 00:51
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Dalael posted:Not quite, the guy actually contacted me after the match, linking a video of some activist that goes through scenarios cops have to face. I should have took pictures of the chat and convo. :duh: To counter that I would say "White cops are mostly Klan members with badges and special privileges.. they are just mad the white robes and hood are not part of the uniform." See what that gets you.
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Aug 17, 2015 01:19
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Sneaky Kettle posted:This chucklefuck was dual-boxing his Langley with his Atago. Ended up in a T9 game on the Ice map. Parked his Atago next to his Langley, and just sat there. When he ran out of planes, then he started moving the Atago.  Now I wonder if that's what the Nagato I saw the other day was doing.
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Aug 17, 2015 02:37
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