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Asking a Jew to admit Palestine has a right to exist is antisemitic, so all US presidents who have pushed for a two-state solution are antisemitic. SCIENCE FACT
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Aug 17, 2015 10:47
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Deliberately asking any Jewish musicians to declare Palestine has a right to exist while not requiring the same of any others would be pretty clear evidence of antisemitism. Asking a Jewish musician who has been outspoken on Palestine to do so without asking any other musicians who have made similar statements would be antisemitic. If there were other Jewish performers who didn't have this requested of them or no other performers who have made such comments then I think it would be pretty tough to argue conclusively that this was antisemitic. Personally I think the optics are not great but if you start requiring things like this at concerts (declaiming Israel's actions/affirming the belief that Palestinians are entitled to a state) you are going to disproportionately affect Jewish people simply because they are far more likely to have been asked about and so have made public comments about the situation in Israel. In that regard a policy that only required it of musicians who had said pro-Israeli things previously certainly comes close to being antisemitic, this case doesn't seem to have been one of any actual policy however but a number of musicians who had reservations about performing alongside someone who they felt supported policies that went against the spirit of the festival. If the organisers had a quick choice between losing a number of musicians or losing one, it seems like they tried to effect a compromise solution that was unsatisfactory and chose the option that would be least harmful to the festival. I don't think it's actually antisemtic in intent but shows that such events need to start considering things like this beforehand and make an effort to come up with a solution that won't end up targetting a specific group.
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Aug 17, 2015 13:52
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We do require Palenstinians to admit Israel has a right to exist though. e: Haven't read much into the story though, if the guy they're boycotting is non-Israeli then it doesn't make much sense. Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 14:12
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Kajeesus posted:I have a hard time thinking he was the only artist there who'd ever made statements as offensive as "there wasn't a Palestine before Israel, right?" and "Israel actually gives a ton of aid to Gaza and doesn't deserve its bum rap (five years ago)." I can believe he was the most Jewy looking artist there, though. If being pro-Palestine was somehow important to the concert or the other artists, they should at least have asked everyone to make a "human rights are cool, let Palestine exist" tweet. Given that some of the other artists involved in the festival were threatening to refuse to play if he was allowed to play, it's probably pretty unlikely that the other artists had voiced anti-Palestine views in the recent past. I feel this is an important point, because the festival wasn't just bowing to internet protesters - the actual musicians that had been signed for this music festival were offended enough by his views to stage a revolt. That's why the festival didn't ask everyone to make such a statement - because their intention was to get Matisyahu to say something that would placate the other artists so they could keep both Matisyahu and the other musicians, not to enforce a political orthodoxy on performers. When he refused, they were left with a choice between dumping Matisyahu or losing several other musicians. Poor optics, maybe, but it's not like they fired a tenured professor over a pro-Palestine tweet or something! Speaking of which, I don't recall anyone complaining that the university was being racist against that (Palestinian-American) professor, nor do I recall any "loyalty oath" rhetoric being thrown around. Why is it different now? Why is punishing a Jewish American person for anti-Palestinian comments considered anti-semitic, but punishing a Palestinian American person for anti-Israel comments is just fine and not racist at all, even if it's in violation of the principles of tenure and academic freedom? Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 14:20
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Main Paineframe posted:Given that some of the other artists involved in the festival were threatening to refuse to play if he was allowed to play, it's probably pretty unlikely that the other artists had voiced anti-Palestine views in the recent past. I feel this is an important point, because the festival wasn't just bowing to internet protesters - the actual musicians that had been signed for this music festival were offended enough by his views to stage a revolt. That's why the festival didn't ask everyone to make such a statement - because their intention was to get Matisyahu to say something that would placate the other artists so they could keep both Matisyahu and the other musicians, not to enforce a political orthodoxy on performers. When he refused, they were left with a choice between dumping Matisyahu or losing several other musicians. I suppose it's more understandable if the other musicians were the ones asking, but the festival could still have handled it more gracefully than it did. Are there any numbers on how many artists were protesting him, or if there were other Jewish artists participating? Main Paineframe posted:Poor optics, maybe, but it's not like they fired a tenured professor over a pro-Palestine tweet or something! Speaking of which, I don't recall anyone complaining that the university was being racist against that (Palestinian-American) professor, nor do I recall any "loyalty oath" rhetoric being thrown around. Why is it different now? Why is punishing a Jewish American person for anti-Palestinian comments considered anti-semitic, but punishing a Palestinian American person for anti-Israel comments is just fine and not racist at all, even if it's in violation of the principles of tenure and academic freedom? That was significantly more hosed up and I don't think anyone would contest that, outside of the established thread hypocrites.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:51
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Kajeesus posted:I suppose it's more understandable if the other musicians were the ones asking, but the festival could still have handled it more gracefully than it did. Are there any numbers on how many artists were protesting him, or if there were other Jewish artists participating? Hard to find good info, since I'm phoneposting, the primary sources are in Spanish, and most of the English sources are right-wing rags that are vague about the actual details. The best I can find is that either four or five artists dropped out in protest because of Matisyahu's inclusion. The festival was definitely facing considerable pressure from the musicians it had signed to perform, and it seems clear that their request for him to state some support for a Palestinian state was a desperate attempt to get him to appease the pro-Palestine artists who refused to perform at the festival, not a dastardly loyalty oath. The part that gets me is the flavor of the rhetoric, though. While it's widely agreed that what happened to Salaita was "hosed up", it was also widely agreed from the beginning that it was exclusively about his political views, the principles of academic freedom, the university's fear of donor pressure. I've never heard anyone accuse the university of being racist, claim that they were discriminating against him because of his heritage, or cast it as requiring "loyalty oaths" from Palestinian-Americans - all accusations that have been made about the Matisyahu incident in the last page or so of this very thread.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:23
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nopantsjack posted:We do require Palenstinians to admit Israel has a right to exist though. Of course not. In fact we require suspected zionists to state that Palestinians should be allowed to call for the death of Israel and banishment of Jews who migrated after 1882. Anything less is tantamount to supporting colonialism.
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Aug 17, 2015 16:43
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Kajeesus posted:I suppose it's more understandable if the other musicians were the ones asking, but the festival could still have handled it more gracefully than it did. Are there any numbers on how many artists were protesting him, or if there were other Jewish artists participating? This is google translated: http://boicotisrael.net/bds/rototom-matisyahu/ "Just to mention the organizations and individuals participating in the festival have been positioned against Matisyahu's performance and / or have decided to cancel their participation, we collect to:" "Pallas' s default (Social Forum -FS-) Fernando Garcia Guereta (Rototom documentary Film Festival) Legal Brotsanbert study (FS / Nonprofit) DJ Bianco (Juanita Club) Hassanna Aalia (FS) FiSahara (FS) The Gossa Deaf (Showcase Stage) Engineers Without Borders (Nonprofit) Periferies (Nonprofit) Platform for food Sobirania (Nonprofit) Xavi Lord (Castelló in Moviment, Nonprofit) Campanya not to TTIP the districts of Castello and Platform Antifracking (Non Profit)" "Along with other organizations who have contacted us and that in the coming hours will be pronounced." As it was a Raggae festival, I doubt there would be any other Jewish performers as the Reggae/Jewish venn diagram probably has very little overlap, although it is a big festival and there seem to be a few white acts/groups so maybe there would be a few Jewish people. Frankly I haven't heard of any of them, let alone know their backgrounds. Most of them don't even seem to have wiki pages. Personally I'm cool with what went on but I'd point out as this was the action of a single BDS group, as in not even the entire Spanish national movement let alone the international movement. I think anyone trying to take a negative view of the situation and paint the entire BDS movement with it is way way overreaching on two counts. team overhead smash fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 16:55
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Of course not. In fact we require suspected zionists to state that Palestinians should be allowed to call for the death of Israel and banishment of Jews who migrated after 1882. Anything less is tantamount to supporting colonialism. Yes, this is exactly what happened.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:08
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The Insect Court posted:Contrari-contrariwise, the point of demanding a non-Israeli Jewish-American prove that he's "one of the good ones" by denouncing Israel is to turn Jews into pariahs. Taking money away from people who support ethnic cleansing is inarguably a good thing. Anyone arguing otherwise simply supports ethnic cleansing.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:40
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It's cool, and good, that people in D&D unironically defend neo-nazis now to win internet arguments. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 17, 2015 17:46
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-Troika- posted:It's cool, and good, that people in D&D unironically defend neo-nazis now to win internet arguments. Someone had to come to your defense eventually
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Aug 17, 2015 17:48
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Cat Mattress posted:Yes, this is exactly what happened. It is exactly how reasonable readers see what occured, yes. Sometimes antisemitic spainards are just that: antisemitic spainards. Why do you deny that depriving a jew of his economic livelyhood for refusing to sign what is tantamount to an anti-jewish loyalty oath is antisemitism? Ban and outlaw BDS as a hate organization.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:21
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My Imaginary GF posted:It is exactly how reasonable readers see what occured, yes. Sometimes antisemitic spainards are just that: antisemitic spainards. The artistic scene in the USA must be in very dire straits if an American artist's economic livelihood depends entirely on participating in one Spanish festival. But never mind that. Do we agree that asking of someone that they recognize a country's right to exist is a hate crime, and that those who do engage in this kind of behavior should be banned and outlawed? Because this seems like a very interesting standard to see applied across the board, equally, for everyone.
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Aug 17, 2015 18:50
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Cat Mattress posted:The artistic scene in the USA must be in very dire straits if an American artist's economic livelihood depends entirely on participating in one Spanish festival. But never mind that. Do we agree that asking of someone that they recognize a country's right to exist is a hate crime, and that those who do engage in this kind of behavior should be banned and outlawed? Because this seems like a very interesting standard to see applied across the board, equally, for everyone. It depends upon the nation, and that nation's participation in normative, international practices. Its a hatecrime when folks ask others to recognize the existance of ISIL.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:16
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My Imaginary GF posted:It depends upon the nation, and that nation's participation in normative, international practices. I take it you don't recognise the existence of Israel. You should really rethink that. Regardless of their war crimes, refusals to abide by international norms and their focus on racial purity they still exist and refusing to recognise reality just doesn't make sense.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:27
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Of course not. In fact we require suspected zionists to state that Palestinians should be allowed to call for the death of Israel and banishment of Jews who migrated after 1882. Anything less is tantamount to supporting colonialism. My Imaginary GF posted:Why do you deny that depriving a jew of his economic livelyhood for refusing to sign what is tantamount to an anti-jewish loyalty oath is antisemitism? Are you saying that supporting the existence of a Palestinian state is inherently anti-Jewish? In that case, the Prime Minister of Israel would be an anti-semite! My Imaginary GF posted:It depends upon the nation, and that nation's participation in normative, international practices. ISIL does exist, though. Refusing to recognize that they exist is about as stupid as refusing to recognize gravity. And since people are literally accusing each other of being Nazis right now, I don't see how much extra harm I could possibly do by engaging you with a good old round of pointless pedantry over a couple missing words.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:33
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Main Paineframe posted:Are you saying that supporting the existence of a Palestinian state is inherently anti-Jewish? It should be up to the individual Jew to determine their support of Palestine. They should not have to sign a pledge that they support Palestine in order to have gainful economic employment.
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Aug 17, 2015 19:36
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My Imaginary GF posted:It should be up to the individual Jew to determine their support of Palestine. They should not have to sign a pledge that they support Palestine in order to have gainful economic employment. What about a pledge that they support Israel?
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Aug 17, 2015 19:40
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My Imaginary GF posted:It should be up to the individual Jew to determine their support of Palestine. They should not have to sign a pledge that they support Palestine in order to have gainful economic employment. That's not what you said, though - you said that tweeting support for Palestine was "tantamount to an anti-Jewish loyalty oath". Besides, I'm not aware of any rule that a organization is not permitted to cut ties with a public figure who has expressed controversial political views and then refusing to recant them.
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Aug 17, 2015 20:35
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Main Paineframe posted:That's not what you said, though - you said that tweeting support for Palestine was "tantamount to an anti-Jewish loyalty oath". Besides, I'm not aware of any rule that a organization is not permitted to cut ties with a public figure who has expressed controversial political views and then refusing to recant them. Forcing someone to tweet opinions which are not theirs, and which may conflict with their religious practice, in order to receiving a contract for gainful employment, is antisemitic in all ways that an act could be antisemitic. Support for the right of Israel to exist is often a core pillar of judaic worship; to demand a public figure disavow themselves from how they choose to practice the Jewish faith, a practice entirely acceptable in the adult world, is just another example of BDS's underground river of antisemitic thought and motivation seeping to the surface.
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Aug 17, 2015 20:39
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My Imaginary GF posted:Forcing someone to tweet opinions which are not theirs, and which may conflict with their religious practice, in order to receiving a contract for gainful employment, is antisemitic in all ways that an act could be antisemitic. I'm not aware of any aspect of Jewish worship which prohibits the existence of a Palestinian state. They didn't ask him to deny Israel's existence, only to show some support for a Palestinian state - which would put him in the same camp as noted antisemite Benjamin Netanyahu. He's free to refuse, of course, but the festival is also free to refuse to associate with him because, as a celebrity, he is a public figure whose controversial political statements can affect the public perception of organizations that choose to associate with him. This is not antisemitic any more than refusing to associate with an anti-abortionist is anti-Christian. Main Paineframe fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 21:03
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Main Paineframe posted:I'm not aware of any aspect of Jewish worship which prohibits the existence of a Palestinian state. They didn't ask him to deny Israel's existence, only to show some support for a Palestinian state - which would put him in the same camp as noted antisemite Benjamin Netanyahu. When BDSers single out a performer because he is a Jew and demand of him a written statement or video appearance where he condemns Israel or Zionism it is blindingly, inarguably antisemitic. To absurdly suggest otherwise is to descend deep into "it's not racism, it's race realism" territory. If Cat Stevens were singled out and forced to issue a strident condemnation of Muslim violence before being allowed to perform at a festival, it would sure as poo poo be islamophobic and so would anybody defending that move. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Aug 17, 2015 |
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Aug 17, 2015 21:44
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The Insect Court posted:When BDSers single out a performer because he is a Jew and demand of him a written statement or video appearance where he condemns Israel and Zionism it is staggeringly, inarguably antisemitic. If Cat Stevens went on record saying "Death to the infidels, death to America, praise be to Allah," it would be absolutely reasonable to require him to issue a strident condemnation of Muslim violence before performing.
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Aug 17, 2015 21:50
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The Insect Court posted:When BDSers single out a performer because he is a Jew and demand of him a written statement or video appearance where he condemns Israel or Zionism it is blindingly, inarguably antisemitic. Matisyahu got singled out for having a lovely pro-zionist attitude and trying to perform at a human rights festival, which is to say based on his actions. That's how it should be. Race doesn't come into it either way. The only way it would make sense in your analogy is if Yusef Islam had made pro-Islamic terror comments in which case, yes, I think it's fair enough to clear that up before playing at a festival supporting humanitarian beliefs or to exclude him. Not that it would ever be necessary because the man is a national treasure and had said of 9/11: "I wish to express my heartfelt horror at the indiscriminate terrorist attacks committed against innocent people of the United States yesterday. While it is still not clear who carried out the attack, it must be stated that no right-thinking follower of Islam could possibly condone such an action. The Qur'an equates the murder of one innocent person with the murder of the whole of humanity. We pray for the families of all those who lost their lives in this unthinkable act of violence as well as all those injured; I hope to reflect the feelings of all Muslims and people around the world whose sympathies go out to the victims of this sorrowful moment."
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Aug 17, 2015 22:13
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The Insect Court posted:When BDSers single out a performer because he is a Jew and demand of him a written statement or video appearance where he condemns Israel or Zionism it is blindingly, inarguably antisemitic. Considering that Hatikva 6 hasn't been asked to make any statements, I'm pretty sure Matisyahu was singled out due to his professed political views, and not his race or his religion,
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Aug 17, 2015 22:26
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team overhead smash posted:Matisyahu got singled out for having a lovely pro-zionist attitude and trying to perform at a human rights festival, which is to say based on his actions. That's how it should be. Race doesn't come into it either way. Let's see what this filthy Zionist has actually said about the issue, shall we? http://www.thejc.com/arts/music/33123/the-moment-when-matisyahu-lost-his-cool quote:Is he a militant Zionist? http://cornellsun.com/blog/2012/10/31/questions-for-matisyahu/ quote:Sun: Your lyrics often center around ending conflict and bloodshed. Where do you stand on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? What a monster. Definitely the exact equivalent of a Muslim performer praising ISIS.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:56
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Yes, it is filthy hate rhetorics he is spouting, repeating the same justifying lies ("Palestine was never a country", "the Freedom Flotilla folks attacked Israel", etc.) and the "one-sidedness" he laments is the existence of media criticizing Israel, because if the only thing that existed was pro-Israel propaganda then it wouldn't be one-sided. The equivalent would be someone talking about how sad it is that Western media only talk about the new Caliphate as a terrorist group instead of seeing all the good it is doing, erasing the old colonial borders and restoring faith and virtue in lands long oppressed by evil dictators. A complete white-washing of reality which nobody here would accept.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:28
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Well I am not history professor or something so my knowledge may be lacking. Could you please tell me when Palestine was a country?
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Aug 17, 2015 23:35
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Lady Morgaga posted:Well I am not history professor or something so my knowledge may be lacking. Could you please tell me when Palestine was a country? Well most countries in the world recognise it as a state now. However that's not the point. The point is that he was asked a straightforward question of what he thinks about the Israeli Palestinian conflict in general (nothing about Palestine's historic status) and his answer was pointing out Palestine was never a country. It's a nonsense criticism designed to weaken an already disenfranchised people. It's like being asked "What are your thoughts about a secret cartel of Jews ruling the world" and answering "From my experience in the USA Jews are statistically the wealthiest ethnic group, even wealthier than white non-jews". While technically true and not in itself racist, the implication is clear.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:47
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team overhead smash posted:Well most countries in the world recognise it as a state now. team overhead smash posted:It's like being asked "What are your thoughts about a secret cartel of Jews ruling the world" and answering "From my experience in the USA Jews are statistically the wealthiest ethnic group, even wealthier than white non-jews". While technically true and not in itself racist, the implication is clear.
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Aug 18, 2015 00:26
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Lady Morgaga posted:I think its hard to separate I/P conflict from history surrounding it. Eventually unlike BDS movement he didnt claim to have all the right answers. His sin apparently was saying a non-sequitur. Hey, I'm no expert. I'm not sure if the jews deserved the holocaust. All I'm saying is it takes two to tango.
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Aug 18, 2015 00:36
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Lady Morgaga posted:I think its hard to separate I/P conflict from history surrounding it. Eventually unlike BDS movement he didnt claim to have all the right answers. His sin apparently was saying a non-sequitur. I think it's hard to separate one Zionist action form the Zionist actions surrounding it like playing at a pro-zionist rally and criticising the Gaza peace flotilla. His sin wasn't saying a non-sequiter and I think it's disingenuous to play it like that. If he'd said "monkey-cheese-bananas" then he'd be an idiot, but he wouldn't be taking an implicitly zionist stance and there wouldn't be an issue. The problem is that his answer actually does follow on and is a lovely thing to say and adds to the lovely zionist things he's done or said. quote:I think there are less valid answers to questions about secret cabal of Jews then to general questions about I/P conflict. Some people in D&D might disagree with me. Okay, how about this. Someone says "What do you think about the issues with black civilians and police officers that has been kicking off in the USA recently" someone's response is "Well I think it's a big concern that so many Black people are criminals. Statistically they are WAY more likely to murder or rape you." I mean I can keep on coming up with analogies and none of them will be exactly the same because they're analogies, so the entire point is they share key similarities but are a bit different. If you don't get how that answer isn't a non-sequiter but is a common 'observation' which is heavily tied into denying Palestinians self-determination. Seriously, google 'never been a palestine' and check out the results you get. You have numerous zionist sites raising it as a reason to disregard the Palestinians and claim that there is no occupation and an article about Naftali Bennett using it as a rationale to try and annex the Occupied Palestinian Territories. It's a common pro-Zionist anti-Palestinian argument. He didn't follow it up with "and that's why we should ethnically cleanse the Palestinians" but the statement alone is enough to get alarm bells ringing, even putting aside his criticisms of the Gaza peace flotilla and willingness to play at Zionist events.
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Aug 18, 2015 00:59
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Lady Morgaga posted:I think its hard to separate I/P conflict from history surrounding it. Eventually unlike BDS movement he didnt claim to have all the right answers. His sin apparently was saying a non-sequitur. There never was a universal black united African state in South Africa. There is only one answer to the question "does it loving matter" that doesn't make you a virulent racist poo poo. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether the other ones are acceptable when Jews are the ones denying civil rights/statehood.
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Aug 18, 2015 01:14
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team overhead smash posted:Okay, how about this. Someone says "What do you think about the issues with black civilians and police officers that has been kicking off in the USA recently" someone's response is "Well I think it's a big concern that so many Black people are criminals. Statistically they are WAY more likely to murder or rape you." What would you say when that person's defenders insist he never said he is a racist, that's he's merely talking about thugs and criminals who just so happen to be black, that he's got a black friend, that the real racists are the blacks who conflate the "thugs" with the good blacks and how those race hucksters bear much of the blame for racist violence and they're just trying to persecute and silence well-intentioned anti-thug activists like themselves? Would that sway you? I will say that those sort of arguments don't sway me when they come from  . I would say that they're racists because they legitimize the rhetoric of racism and adopt classical racist canards. Qualifiers and provisos like "it's about culture, not race!" or "I don't have anything against the good ones" are flimsy excuses.And besides, if you want a meaningful thought experiment here, the analogy isn't about race it's about the reaction if a performer of Palestinian ancestry was singled out and told to issue a public statement recognizing the right of Israel to exist as a Zionist state and to engage in self-defense. It's pretty clear what the result would be. The same people shrugging at a Jewish artist being attacked as a "lover of Israel" and a "Zionist" would be tearing their hair out. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 02:19
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The Insect Court posted:And besides, if you want a meaningful thought experiment here, the analogy isn't about race it's about the reaction if a performer of Palestinian ancestry was singled out and told to issue a public statement recognizing the right of Israel to exist as a Zionist state and to engage in self-defense. It's pretty clear what the result would be. The same people shrugging at a Jewish artist being attacked as a "lover of Israel" and a "Zionist" would be tearing their hair out. If the said performer said Israel didn't have a right to exist you would be livid that he was allowed to perform. You aren't livid now because the performer instead hates Palestinians and thinks they should be wiped from the face of the earth, as do you. I gotta say, this entire incident and the anti-Palestinian response is the best proof I've seen that BDS works. Kudos to the organizer of the concert.
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Aug 18, 2015 02:57
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uninterrupted posted:If the said performer said Israel didn't have a right to exist you would be livid that he was allowed to perform. I am saddened by the willingness to countenance an act of antisemitism. Just as I would be by a willingness to support similar anti-Arab racism with double standards for a performer of Palestinian descent. It is unfortunate you cannot say the same, but please do not project double standards you hold onto me. uninterrupted posted:Hey, I'm no expert. I'm not sure if the jews deserved the holocaust. Likewise, I would find 'ironic racism' like this just as objectionable if it were gross anti-Arab racism rather than antisemitism. I believe it's important to be intellectually consistent in matters like this.
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Aug 18, 2015 03:17
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The Insect Court posted:What would you say when that person's defenders insist he never said he is a racist, that's he's merely talking about thugs and criminals who just so happen to be black, that he's got a black friend, that the real racists are the blacks who conflate the "thugs" with the good blacks and how those race hucksters bear much of the blame for racist violence and they're just trying to persecute and silence well-intentioned anti-thug activists like themselves? Would that sway you? The Insect Court posted:And besides, if you want a meaningful thought experiment here, the analogy isn't about race it's about the reaction if a performer of Palestinian ancestry was singled out and told to issue a public statement recognizing the right of Israel to exist as a Zionist state and to engage in self-defense. It's pretty clear what the result would be. The same people shrugging at a Jewish artist being attacked as a "lover of Israel" and a "Zionist" would be tearing their hair out. IMO he's not someone who wants to take an outspoken stand on this issue but is clearly pro-Zionist and has problems with the idea of Palestine. That's a position that many who are performing and would be attending the concert feel is used to justify human rights violations and plenty of other acts that the festival is specifically supposed to oppose, in which case it wouldn't be unreasonable to ask him to publicly acknowledge that his position was simply one that was pro-Israeli without denying the legitimacy of Palestine (favouring a 2 state solution, something which is in no way inherently antisemitic). He wasn't willing to do that. I'll happily say that the wording they used in their reasoning is pretty bad, I don't know how much that may be the result of translation issues and how much might be negative attitudes in these 'Spainards'
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Aug 18, 2015 03:28
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The Insect Court posted:Likewise, I would find 'ironic racism' like this just as objectionable if it were gross anti-Arab racism rather than antisemitism. I believe it's important to be intellectually consistent in matters like this. Sorry, don't see the racism there. All I'm saying is that I'm not an expert on whether or not the holocaust was warranted, the worst I could be accused of is bringing up a non sequitur.
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Aug 18, 2015 03:39
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lol poo poo's hosedquote:Last year, Hadas Kedar dug through the drawers in her parents' apartment, looking for proof of her family's life in Hungary during the 1920s. Eventually, she found several birth certificates and elementary school diplomas, put them in a folder, then sketched out a family tree and brought the paperwork to the Hungarian Embassy in Tel Aviv, Israel. Like thousands of Israelis, Kedar, a 50-year-old artist, is hoping to acquire European citizenship. Yet her application is unique—and symbolic: She is related to Theodor Herzl, the Hungarian-born journalist who was the founding father of the Jewish state.
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Aug 18, 2015 04:08
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