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Echo Chamber posted:Nonetheless, this was in a few months making and Oliver is the best guy to pull off a "let's start a mock church" without coming off as a punchable
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Aug 18, 2015 12:43
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atheist.
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Ya'll motherfuckers need Satan.
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Aug 18, 2015 12:52
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That's a sweet story about him and his wife, I'd never heard that before. On a less sweet note, I feel a little conflicted about the people getting hosed over by these televangelists. There's a part of me that thinks if you're that stupid you kinda deserve it. I know ignorance can come from outside factors, it isn't something people necessarily choose, but just...goddamn. It's obviously extra hosed up to be promising cancer cures, but if you're clearly just funding private jets for God... bobkatt013 posted:I have faith in Our Lady Of Perpetual Exemption (Jumpers.)
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Aug 18, 2015 13:00
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:Ya'll motherfuckers need Satan. Please don't take the motherfucker name in vain.
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Aug 18, 2015 13:00
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VagueRant posted:That's a sweet story about him and his wife, I'd never heard that before. The thing is that it's not really like the lottery, where everybody knows the odds are incredibly slim but wants to hope anyway. Televangelists will tell people that their "donations" will pay off WITH CERTAINTY, and if they don't it's just because they haven't given enough. It's easy to say "well only stupid people fall for it", but that's not actually true. There are a lot of reasons why even smart people can have blind spots when it comes to certain topics and religion is one of the bigger ones. One of the bigger issues is that for a lot of people who can't afford it, they do it because they really DON'T have any better options in their life and they'll jump at something that seems like it might, because it's easier than trying to figure out what to do when you can't do anything. Of course it won't work, but even a smart person can be willfully ignorant as a defense mechanism against giving up hope altogether. What makes these people monsters is that they know all of this and deliberately prey on it; they intentionally reach out to people who have run out of options and act as if they're the easy solution they've been looking for to get that money flowing in.
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Aug 18, 2015 13:11
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Josh Lyman posted:Was there a content reason for filming it twice or maybe something technical like bad video/audio? They said it was because they wanted to get different camera angles. Content-wise the two takes weren't really any different, but John and Rachel were mostly ad-libbing their lines which is why I felt one was funnier than the other.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:22
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VagueRant posted:
Sorta feel the same, on the one hand I don't want to victim blame, but on the other hand they are the ones stupidly sending their money to these guys in the first place of their own choice. It's like trying to feel sorry for someone who sent 3,000$ to a nigerian prince.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:23
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Sorta feel the same, on the one hand I don't want to victim blame, but on the other hand they are the ones stupidly sending their money to these guys in the first place of their own choice. But religious people are often indoctrinated from birth to believe things like this. It wasn't like they chose to made to believe at a young age in biblical inerrancy. And it is an extension of this that causes them to believe that preachers are somehow blessed by God and able to things like this. Its like blaming someone who was on the internet for the first time and told to invest in the Nigerian prince by friends for falling for the Nigerian prince thing. MegaZeroX fucked around with this message at 14:36 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 14:34
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The only difference is that the televangelists found a legal way to con people out of their money.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:40
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The people who pay for these scams might also have children (like that goon a couple pages back) so even if you are jaded enough to be cool with assholes praying on the gullible and misfortunate, there's no excuse for taking food out of children's mouths.
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Aug 18, 2015 14:58
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:Sorta feel the same, on the one hand I don't want to victim blame, but on the other hand they are the ones stupidly sending their money to these guys in the first place of their own choice. Openly exploiting naive and/or desperate people should probably not be allowed, or even rewarded with tax exemptions. It's a bit too much like social darwinism
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Aug 18, 2015 15:07
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Conning cancer patients out of money isn't something I'd put down as "Oh well the stupid fuckers deserve it" and more deliberately exploiting people at their most vulnerable.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:21
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Kenneth Copeland bilked my dementia-ridden grandfather out of a ton of money, leaving my grandmother with crippling debt and working for minimum wage at 75 years old. I hope Kenneth Copeland and his dumbass wife get hosed in hell with a bicycle made of fire and nails forever and ever amen. I have known about and hated Kenneth Copeland for 12 years. I will not actually know true happiness until I know of his end. E: He literally believe that a) his brain would get better and b) if he "claimed it" then God would give it to him. Because Kenneth Copeland and that disgusting bag of surgically tightened flesh he pals around with "claimed" their riches. I was 17 when my grandfather, on a postman's pension, wanted me to take him to the Mercedes dealership where he tried to purchase one without financing. As he tried to "claim it" like Kenneth "claimed" his loving jet and millions of dollars from people who are literally mentally ill, I had to call my parents to come pull him out of the dealership physically where he proclaimed that none of us would ever see heaven since we didn't allow him to do what God wanted. We committed him on my 18th birthday. gently caress gently caress gently caress KENNETH COPELAND No Butt Stuff fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 15:43
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Krowley posted:Openly exploiting naive and/or desperate people should probably not be allowed, or even rewarded with tax exemptions. It's a bit too much like social darwinism I'm not saying these scammers shouldn't be punished, just that it's really stupid that these people are giving their money to the blatantly obvious scams in the first place, even if they think they need the false hope of it. I just want it to be clear I think the televangelists should go to jail and their false money grubbing churches to be against the law Ra Ra Rasputin fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Aug 18, 2015 |
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Aug 18, 2015 15:48
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i hope to one day learn your real name so i can learn what stupid poo poo you do when you're out of touch with society and the speed at which it moves in your 80s.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:49
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It's not blatant to them. These are holy people who they have been brought up to trust their whole lives.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:50
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No Butt Stuff posted:i hope to one day learn your real name so i can learn what stupid poo poo you do when you're out of touch with society and the speed at which it moves in your 80s. ... What?
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Aug 18, 2015 15:51
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You're blaming people for falling victim to something that you can see and understand is wrong, but they may not. But since you can see it, they must be stupid for not being able to recognize and avoid it. I'm simply saying that if that is your attitude, I hope to one day be able to roll around in the irony of you getting bilked out of something when you're old and society works in ways and allows things that you don't fully understand.
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Aug 18, 2015 15:53
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I do feel bad about what happened to your grandfather with dementia though and how he was taken advantage of, I also think these people and any future people like them should be jailed for what their doing, I wasn't thinking about people with dementia or similar problems.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:03
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It's pretty simple, people who fall for this are just stupid or senile. Being ill and desperate doesn't preclude you from being an idiot either, sorry to say. And there's plenty of fine, life-long religious folks not throwing money at the scam artists. Probably the standard collection plate instead.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:04
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TASTE THE PAIN!! posted:It's pretty simple, people who fall for this are just stupid or senile. Being ill and desperate doesn't preclude you from being an idiot either, sorry to say. And there's plenty of fine, life-long religious folks not throwing money at the scam artists. Probably the standard collection plate instead. Taking advantage of stupid people in any other context is still illegal and considered fraud. This should be as well. There shouldn't be a "stupid tax" and these fuckers shouldn't be the ones to gain from one.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:07
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I do feel bad about what happened to your grandfather with dementia though and how he was taken advantage of, I also think these people and any future people like them should be jailed for what their doing, I wasn't thinking about people with dementia or similar problems. It's fine. I've just been dealing with this attitude from people for like 10+ years now and a lot of the time people don't stop to think about what else could be the cause and what other lives could be ruined as well. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't come up often, but when it does it's always the same poo poo.
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Aug 18, 2015 16:10
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GutBomb posted:Taking advantage of stupid people in any other context is still illegal and considered fraud. This should be as well. There shouldn't be a "stupid tax" and these fuckers shouldn't be the ones to gain from one. Since when is taking advantage of stupid people illegal? Overtly scamming, sure, but I'm not aware of what you're referring to. This isn't a stupid tax, they're throwing money at these people. I'm not defending the scammers, they're the scum of the earth, but if you have any common sense then you know better than to give these fuckers a dime.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:00
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The big issue is the US Government giving legitimacy and leeway to their scams by classifying them under a religious organization. By doing so, not only are they tax free money factories, they also don't have to deliver on their product sold. If they weren't religious, they WOULD be illegal as they are literally lying to people in order to take their money. We have laws preventing that sort of thing. Wrapping it around religion just makes it all go away. It's also likely that these televangelists ARE running afoul of what little financial rules that are there, but since the audit rate is so low, they don't get caught.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:11
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The thing is, most churches run off donations anyways, so it's not that weird of an idea to send money to the dude who's preaching at you, but these televangelists have just slipped in some crazy junk of their own in some kind of bizarre spiritual pyramid scheme.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:16
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Imagine I answered "welcome to the Republican party!" to every single post ITT blaming the victims.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:20
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So it's bad that my biggest takeaway from the piece was "poo poo, I wish I'd thought of doing that"?Katana Gomai posted:Imagine I answered "welcome to the Republican party!" to every single post ITT blaming the victims.
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Aug 18, 2015 17:30
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bull3964 posted:The big issue is the US Government giving legitimacy and leeway to their scams by classifying them under a religious organization. By doing so, not only are they tax free money factories, they also don't have to deliver on their product sold. What is the product? Spiritual fulfillment? A sense of community? Philosophical enlightenment?  ?
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Aug 18, 2015 18:02
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ITT: People call senile old men, and people raised in religious homes loving retarded. Goons React. New Thread Title: The Jon Oliver Show: Goons React.
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Aug 18, 2015 18:13
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SlothfulCobra posted:The thing is, most churches run off donations anyways, so it's not that weird of an idea to send money to the dude who's preaching at you, but these televangelists have just slipped in some crazy junk of their own in some kind of bizarre spiritual pyramid scheme. Most churches generally also use that money for things like charity work, or at the very least basic building maintenance and paying reasonable living wages to full-time church employees. They also explicitly consider it as a donation and not some kind of bizarre investment in the bank of Jesus where you're meant to expect some kind of windfall later because of it.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:11
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Most churches generally also use that money for things like charity work, or at the very least basic building maintenance and paying reasonable living wages to full-time church employees. They also explicitly consider it as a donation and not some kind of bizarre investment in the bank of Jesus where you're meant to expect some kind of windfall later because of it. I'm the chairman of my synagogue's finance committee. 100% of our donations go towards compensation to the rabbi, building maintenance/utilities, running our religious education program (paying teachers and supplies), fees for things like payroll services, publishing, fundraising efforts, dues in the URJ, and charity. That's it. We do require member families to pay dues, which are entirely income based. If you can't afford to pay dues, you don't pay them, but you're allowed to participate in everything the temple has to offer including educational programs.
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Aug 18, 2015 19:36
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The whole thing is a gray area because nobody wants to be the one who decides whether or not a church's beliefs are valid.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:26
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How about we stop giving exemptions to churches. Let's just stop that poo poo.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:34
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muscles like this? posted:The whole thing is a gray area because nobody wants to be the one who decides whether or not a church's beliefs are valid. Me. I want to decide. Prosperity Doctrine churches are not valid. This is now the law, whatever that means.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:48
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No Butt Stuff posted:How about we stop giving exemptions to churches. Let's just stop that poo poo. for reals, this is the answer. if the argument is that churches help people and are charitable, well then they can open up a branch of their church that is a charity, but is scrutinised that the money is actually going to charity and not into the pockets of the church leaders and has to conform to all the standards that NGOs have.
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Aug 19, 2015 00:21
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No Butt Stuff posted:How about we stop giving exemptions to churches. Let's just stop that poo poo.
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Aug 19, 2015 00:46
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Stupid people don't deserve to be scammed out of their money.
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Aug 19, 2015 01:10
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When you're desperate, or down and out, a lot of pipe dream quick fix schemes can seem reasonable. The brain tries to protect itself by believing that a presented solution to an insoluble, crushing problem can work, even if critical thought would reveal that it really can't. And a scam is only obvious when you've read a lot about scamming and know the signs - plenty of people haven't and don't, especially if they're not very internet-savvy. The fact that these churches use religion as a vehicle for their scam makes it even easier for victims to get sucked in. Plenty of people, especially older people, are accustomed to trust religious figures by default, and if you do believe in God then a promise that God can cure your disease or fix your financial situation seems far less outlandish because, after all, he can do anything! Basically yeah, these churches prey on the vulnerable who have no alternative but to believe in some solution to their problems, and abuse their belief in a higher power to do it. Blaming the victims is the wrong idea here, because many of them are in terrible circumstances capable of causing normally sensible people to do foolish things out of desperation.
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Aug 19, 2015 01:27
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Austrian mook posted:Stupid people don't deserve to be scammed out of their money. controversial, but i agree.
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Aug 19, 2015 03:18
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Android Blues posted:When you're desperate, or down and out, a lot of pipe dream quick fix schemes can seem reasonable. The brain tries to protect itself by believing that a presented solution to an insoluble, crushing problem can work, even if critical thought would reveal that it really can't. And a scam is only obvious when you've read a lot about scamming and know the signs - plenty of people haven't and don't, especially if they're not very internet-savvy. Just to add to this, if you google for a list of psychological triggers used by scam artists to trick people out of their money they also perfectly match the behaviour of these televangelists: obligation via reciprocation, incremental commitment, social/peer pressure, semblances of authority, etc etc.. Those letters sent to John Oliver by the televangelist were textbook examples of most of these triggers.
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Aug 19, 2015 10:09
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