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PerrineClostermann posted:So the Iowa can totally do this right God I wish they'd add clubhaulling, I'd do that poo poo constantly, even when it wouldn't help me. Also, as horrible as that movie was, there were some fun scenes.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:33
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counterfeitsaint posted:God I wish they'd add clubhaulling, I'd do that poo poo constantly, even when it wouldn't help me. I just got done watching this  .Seriously awesome scene.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:34
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At most tiers, if your battleship loses 1v1 with a cruiser it's due to playing poorly or extremely bad RNG (making battleship shells miss, or the cruiser set too many fires). The RNG factor is a lovely game mechanic, but not ship class imbalance. None of the counters are perfect. A cruiser doesn't want to round an island and see a destroyer 2 km away; a destroyer doesn't want to get spotted near a battleship it can't torpedo; a battleship doesn't want to fight a perfectly driven HE cruiser at the edge of its gun range. They tried hard counters in the early CBT (specifically battleships hard countering cruisers; cruisers countered destroyers, and destroyers countered nothing), and it was loving awful. If nothing else, HE meta is an improvement over 19 km random citadel meta. HE is too strong, but cruisers and often destroyers depend on it to be useful. Between "small and medium caliber AP do 0 damage to battleships" and "citadel hits do 5 to 10 times as much damage as hits to other areas" you lose a lot of balancing options. It'd be a better game if battleships had more accurate guns with significantly less citadel hit damage.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:44
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Michi88 posted:I didn't specify a fix for it because i simply don't know one, at the moment it is broken, a mogami absolutely kicked my hp down to 2/5 before i was able to citadel him, and im not a bad bb player. ( in a Montana) Mogami is just super-good. It could probably be a tier 10 if you gave it the "standard" t10 stuff (imagine a Mogami with 16% MORE range).
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Aug 21, 2015 06:47
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James Garfield posted:At most tiers, if your battleship loses 1v1 with a cruiser it's due to playing poorly or extremely bad RNG (making battleship shells miss, or the cruiser set too many fires). The RNG factor is a lovely game mechanic, but not ship class imbalance. The problem is you have to be a good BB player to do really well in it/ carry, and while losing in a 1v1 doesn't happen a lot, you usually lose a significant amount of hp doing it from HE spam dmg/fire. You can be a poo poo cruiser player and still do amazing by just spamming he and not broadsiding. wdarkk posted:Mogami is just super-good. It could probably be a tier 10 if you gave it the "standard" t10 stuff (imagine a Mogami with 16% MORE range). Still a much lower cruiser ruining a t10 bb without much effort.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:52
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This game is fun. I just started and I like the Wakatake because it is usually awful but when people don't pay attention to torps you get some mean snipes.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:53
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Yeah don't confuse Mogami with all cruisers. It's too strong by any standard, but Mogami is an outlier. It outdamages every US cruiser except Des Moines, which it matches. edit: Michi88 posted:The problem is you have to be a good BB player to do really well in it/ carry, and while losing in a 1v1 doesn't happen a lot, you usually lose a significant amount of hp doing it from HE spam dmg/fire. You can be a poo poo cruiser player and still do amazing by just spamming he and not broadsiding. In almost all the statistics available, top 10% battleships outperform average battleships by about the same margin as top 10% cruisers outperform average cruisers. The only exception is experience per game, where battleships gain more but good battleships easily outperform good cruisers. Battleships are inconsistent on a single game basis, which is a related but separate problem. HE spam fires are a bad solution to a problem, although it was even worse before HE spam took hold (just with battleships as the beneficiaries instead of 6" cruisers). I don't know of any better solution within the limits they've set (battleship citadel hits do crippling damage, medium caliber AP does 0 damage to battleships) though. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 06:54
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James Garfield posted:At most tiers, if your battleship loses 1v1 with a cruiser it's due to playing poorly or extremely bad RNG (making battleship shells miss, or the cruiser set too many fires). The RNG factor is a lovely game mechanic, but not ship class imbalance. I agree, I was around for the AP meta and boy was it bad news. But the game can always tune the balance. 203mm CAs are pretty balanced, in my opinion. There's 2 ships that stand out as big offenders, and low tier BBs could stand to get a little love dispersion-wise, but I think the BB > CA game is overall... ok. I'm mostly fine with CAs being fairly easy mode, I just want to see the 2 biggest HE spamming offenders at the mid-high tiers to get the shafting they deserve. And the Iowa needs to get its superstructure fixed because hahahaholy shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit Nerfing HE overall is... not the greatest option, tbh. Nerf the offenders who abuse it, and the game will be pretty healthy. I like the concept of HE burning ships to death, I rely on it in my Atlanta and my US DDs (I basically consider the Atlanta to be a bigger DD at this point), but there are some clear examples of HE taking it too far.
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Aug 21, 2015 07:01
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Another option would be to reduce fire damage linear with the % of max health left. With a minimum of 20% or so. Thus if your at low health a fire has more problems to kill you.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:14
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Tank Boy Ken posted:Another option would be to reduce fire damage linear with the % of max health left. With a minimum of 20% or so. Thus if your at low health a fire has more problems to kill you. You mean like dealing a % of remaining health in damage?
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Aug 21, 2015 08:25
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PerrineClostermann posted:You mean like dealing a % of remaining health in damage? Nono, he means to chunk ships down but not finish the last bits.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:27
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Space Flower posted:Nono, he means to chunk ships down but not finish the last bits. Dealing a percent of remaining health wouldn't ever kill a ship
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Aug 21, 2015 08:33
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PerrineClostermann posted:Dealing a percent of remaining health wouldn't ever kill a ship Yeah, but he's only talking about fire damage, not HE damage.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:44
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Gort posted:Yeah, but he's only talking about fire damage, not HE damage. ...Right. That's what he was saying, right? Fires doing progressively less damage as you get damaged, something like a percentage of remaining health. I'm getting confused. Did I miss something or ask my question in a strange way?
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Aug 21, 2015 08:52
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I thought you were confused since you quoted Space Flower and then just rephrased what Space Flower said. Maybe it's me that's confused. Anyway, if you want fire to get less good at killing ships as they get closer to death you could implement this as fire doing a base amount of damage PLUS a percentage of the remaining health of the ship, for example. Gort fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 08:54
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PerrineClostermann posted:...Right. That's what he was saying, right? Fires doing progressively less damage as you get damaged, something like a percentage of remaining health. I meant: Full health: Fire does (X * 1 )% of your max Health per tick half health: fire does (X * 0.6) % of your max Health per tick 20% health: fire does (X * 0.2) % of your max Health per tick (lerping from full X to X * 0.2) Thus fire could still deal damage at low health, but would be less dangerous. This would also affect the use of the Repair Health Skill. Using it while on fire would increase the damage your fire does. Sorry english ain't my first language and sometimes my sentence structures seem to be a bit unclear to native speakers.
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Aug 21, 2015 09:51
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Scoreboard time! Here are some of the better games I've had lately. My first Iowa game    Omaha Ownage    Iowa again    I don't win games in my Iowa unless I do more than 140k damage. It's loving taxing 
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Aug 21, 2015 10:30
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counterfeitsaint posted:God I wish they'd add clubhaulling, I'd do that poo poo constantly, even when it wouldn't help me. When I fire at ships I overpen or get minor damage.. that battleship is able to blow rather large alien space motherships to pieces with the same guns. I say it's time to protest to WG. I want that level of damage! Groggy nard posted:I'm pretty sure i know what this means but I am drunk and I am amused by what you think this means beyond "Doesn't unironically say FOG_toonies_IJNdessies freexpies-through-Langies" so please tell me what it means to "you" so that I can either laugh at you or not feel like a bizzaro shitler when I randomly accept people in windowlickers for no reason other than moving myself through channels to talk to them is Nah, you're drunk don't worry. We don't want to be infiltrated by pubbie spies. I would rather fill the clan with goons first and foremost. No objection to outsiders but our dudes get first seamen privileges. Random pubbie shitters from outside, albeit amusing entertainment will likely make waves and piss people off as what was the experience in MechWarrior Online when it was infiltrated. I think WoT had a few to deal with too but not sure. If they are friends or acquaintances you can vouch for then by all means go for it. Sporks I was told to ask you to reapply again please, you are apparently 'unbroken' now. demonR6 fucked around with this message at 12:03 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 11:55
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How are the US cruisers at higher tiers? Pensacola is nice and all but I'm a little worried the next couple ships are just marginally better versions of it. At least the Japanese cruisers get very fast, damaging and long range torpedoes up through tier 10.
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Aug 21, 2015 13:12
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Hazdoc posted:
I still don't get why this is taking so long to fix. As in, we don't even have an announcement it's going to be fixed. It's effectively the same drat bug the Yamato had in CBT, a missing 0, only applicable to something favorable to the ship. For those not around when it was introduced in CBT, the Yamato was missing a 0 from how much armor their turrets should have, which meant they were being knocked out by anything and everything, as even low-caliber HE was penetrating them. That took forever to fix too, and it's something that should be a pathetically easy fix.
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Aug 21, 2015 13:56
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So the general consesus is that while doing US cruisers and battleships, the Colorado should be the ship that I try to skip most of with free xp?
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Aug 21, 2015 14:26
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Panfilo posted:How are the US cruisers at higher tiers? Pensacola is nice and all but I'm a little worried the next couple ships are just marginally better versions of it. At least the Japanese cruisers get very fast, damaging and long range torpedoes up through tier 10. They indeed get a bit better at everything for every tier. IJN cruisers are much weirder. T8 has best firepower (with 155mm) untill T10. T8 (with 203mm) and T9 have worse firepower than T7. T8 and T9 have similar torpedoes, T7 too but has 2 less per side. T7,T8,T9 have similar speed, maneuvrability, Armor, hitpoints and AA.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:46
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Asehujiko posted:So the general consesus is that while doing US cruisers and battleships, the Colorado should be the ship that I try to skip most of with free xp? Exactly.
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Aug 21, 2015 14:47
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The number of ignorant savages who drive their New York and sit at 17km range or drive away from battle before chastising everyone for dying so quickly makes me want to burn their houses down with them still inside
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Aug 21, 2015 14:49
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 The Cleveland is a good boat. Highlights include alpha striking an Omaha and a Furutaka with Citadels. ~90K damage done, 5K damage taken. I'm always surprised how well the Cleveland can pierce the armor of other cruisers.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:38
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PerrineClostermann posted:So the Iowa can totally do this right Lol that loving scene. Please tell me the entire movie is like this. I like the dudes on the 50 cals.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:14
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SquadronROE posted:Lol that loving scene. Please tell me the entire movie is like this. I like the dudes on the 50 cals. I'm helping 
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Aug 21, 2015 16:31
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SquadronROE posted:Lol that loving scene. Please tell me the entire movie is like this. I like the dudes on the 50 cals. You should see the bit where they plot the course of a stealth alien ship to get a firing solution as it hops across the ocean using sonar buoys... on a 10x10 grid
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Aug 21, 2015 16:31
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You know, I think once it gets the buffs they've discussed, I'm going to genuinely like the Furutaka as a sort of novel, weird boat. It will never be a total shitkicker like the dreamy, dreamy Omaha, but with a better traverse it'll be a weird little glass cannon pocket battlecruiser and that'll be fun.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:38
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So Last Stand seems like a really obvious choice on a DD, but how much engine/steering power does it actually leave you with? Enough to make an escape or some bullshit like 30% of max?
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Aug 21, 2015 19:00
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PirateBob posted:So Last Stand seems like a really obvious choice on a DD, but how much engine/steering power does it actually leave you with? Enough to make an escape or some bullshit like 30% of max? I think it's about half the turn and 66% of max speed.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:04
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PirateBob posted:So Last Stand seems like a really obvious choice on a DD, but how much engine/steering power does it actually leave you with? Enough to make an escape or some bullshit like 30% of max? Your rudder shift time is roughly doubled. You maneuver like a light cruiser in a DD, and in a cruiser you maneuver more like a battleship. For your engine, I've noticed it drop from 34-35 knots to 28-30 knots, so it feels like I've dropped to 3/4ths throttle, but the biggest thing to note is that your will not gain speed very quickly. If you cut your throttle, you're going to be stuck moving slower for a while, as your engine won't regain that speed quickly. You can get out of reverse too, but its not a fast process. However, these are HUGE improvements over not having the skill. Rudder failure means NO rudder change at all, and engine damage means you rapidly drop to 4-5 knots, and if you were in reverse, you can't switch to forward thrust and you're gonna go 1-2 knots.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:05
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Hazdoc posted:Your rudder shift time is roughly doubled. You maneuver like a light cruiser in a DD, and in a cruiser you maneuver more like a battleship. For your engine, I've noticed it drop from 34-35 knots to 28-30 knots, so it feels like I've dropped to 3/4ths throttle, but the biggest thing to note is that your will not gain speed very quickly. If you cut your throttle, you're going to be stuck moving slower for a while, as your engine won't regain that speed quickly. You can get out of reverse too, but its not a fast process. Exactly the type of info I was after. Thank you Hazdoc.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:07
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NA server is having another 2x weekend. I guess at this point it is a bad idea to do your daily wins on Thursday night if you know you have free time on Friday in case they start a 2x weekend on Friday morning.Night10194 posted:You know, I think once it gets the buffs they've discussed, I'm going to genuinely like the Furutaka as a sort of novel, weird boat. It will never be a total shitkicker like the dreamy, dreamy Omaha, but with a better traverse it'll be a weird little glass cannon pocket battlecruiser and that'll be fun. Now that I think about it, I wonder if they will end up buffing the Ibuki eventually to differentiate it. grrarg fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 20:41
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I thought they were going to enhance the ROF and turret traverse?
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Aug 21, 2015 20:42
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They are, and that will make the Furutaka's the same as the Ibuki, 4 rounds per minute and 36 second traverse compared to the Myoko slight nerf from 5rpm to 4.3rpm and 45 second traverse.
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Aug 21, 2015 20:49
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The really annoying part is the bullet velocity is very different from most cruiser guns I've used, so I'm having a hard time getting the leads down with the Taco.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:08
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Night10194 posted:The really annoying part is the bullet velocity is very different from most cruiser guns I've used, so I'm having a hard time getting the leads down with the Taco. Good news! Your guns will have the same velocity until you reach tier 10.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:17
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I feel it's not just the fires, HE base damage is too high compared to AP for cruisers too. HE is guaranteed damage while AP actually needs to penetrate, there should be more skill involved there.
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Aug 21, 2015 21:41
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Reapplied as Perick for hot seamn action. Also, hot drat thanks for the advice on the Omaha and driving head on into battle, I love this ship now!
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Aug 21, 2015 22:52
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