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Yeah, the ammo tweaks just resulted in 6 players (low level since testing the new classes) chasing the boss around on his last phase for 12 minutes with nothing but pistols and melee weapons after picking up every ammo pack on the map. Sadly the grenade gun doesn't hold up against small fry as their health scales up, the default pistol is a better crowd-clearer. All of that was on normal.
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Aug 26, 2015 18:05
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I feel like the grenade pistol represents the demo class well. Just like the rest of the weapons if aimed and fired accurately it can take out several zeds at once. If used like a normal pistol it's trash and doesn't haven enough ammo. Number one tip to using it well is to fire at zeds from an angle and never straight on, use the normal pistol for that.
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Aug 26, 2015 18:18
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Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it.  Yoshiro made a post explaining the intent of the ammo changes and I'll paraphrase to give you the reasoning behind it. There is going to be more iteration but the data we've been collecting has shown a couple of things that make the game less fun. In general, there were too many weapon and ammo pickups in the world. This allowed people to neglect buying ammo during the early waves, which effects how frequently they're able to upgrade their weapons. We're making changes to a few systems to try and fine tune what waves people are upgrading their weapons. We're cool with a skilled player buying a weapon a wave early but if you're getting your tier 4 weapon at the end of the second wave the game is going to be a snooze fest since the game works best when you're getting the "correct" weapons for the ZEDs that are in the wave you're playing, low level guys get killed by your starting weapon or pistol, mid-level guys get murdered by your mid-tier weapons and the big scary ZEDs start spawning just in time for you to have gotten your high tier weapons. Once we get everything tuned in hopefully we won't see people running around the map kiting ZEDs looking for weapons to sell and we won't see people finishing the first couple of waves using only ammo they've scavenged and getting high tier weapons WAY too early. dorkasaurus_rex posted:Does the new FP charging attack block damage or what? Where he holds his hands in front of him? He covers his vulnerable power core with his big metal poundy arms, which I think is cool as gently caress.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:08
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It just took a six-player Normal server more than the length of You Could Be Mine* to kill Hans, by the end of which two of us had died and I'd run out of ammo for both the Microwave and Trench guns. In fact, everyone was down to their pistols. I get that we're at a disadvantage because the most senior player on the server was a level 10 Medic and the rest of us were 0-2 Firebugs, Berzerkers and Demos but it was a boring slog by the end of it. Hans needs to be completely thrown out and rewritten because right now he's basically a lovely Barret from Deus Ex: HR. That said, the Trench gun was really fun though my Support instincts meant I kept shooting things rather than rely on damage over time. The stumble is nice but (Support again) I'm used to shells just shredding poo poo on the first impact. It's also something I can buy on wave 2 and keep all the way to the end, whereas the Flamethrower pretty much has to get upgraded to the Microwave gun before boss time due to weight limits. I also noticed the starting weapons sell for $100 whether or not you drop them and pick them up again. While I appreciate the consistency, $150 wasn't game-breaking. *Live in Paris bootleg version, obviously. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 19:09
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I think people just need to learn new ways of fighting Hans. I was in a match with four Berzerkers and they kept throwing Hans on the ground and he died incredibly fast. This is all on normal since I was just a low level Demo.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:27
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Questioner86 posted:He covers his vulnerable power core with his big metal poundy arms, which I think is cool as gently caress. Holy crap that red glowing thing is a weak spot? I never knew, even with all these hours in KF1  I get the reasoning with the balance, it feels like you've found some good spots with Medic and Zerker, but really hosed everyone else  Gotta say tho, this might be because there are a lot of lvl 0-2 Firebugs/Demos and they eat through ammo like it's candy on Haloween. But just throw in a single lvl 10 berserker into the mix, and suddenly you have a guy who can loving drown you with money. With everything being weakened with fire and  EXPLOSIONS and the new changes on top of that, Zerkers can chew through trash mobs like a snow plow covered in blood, and then go 1v1 against Scrakes and FPs. You just then have to politely ask them for some money. Never bothered to check - I know you get XP for assisting in killing a Zed, but do you get cash for that as well? If not, you might consider adding a partial reward for an assist. Just like a third of the Zeds value. This will make Firebugs never bother anyone for cash ever again, but then again their weapons are expensive.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:29
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I know in KF1 Scrakes, FPs and possibly even the boss were weak to headshots, which could do 3x damage. This included direct grenade hits to their face. Never realized the core thing in 2. edit: oh it's new, cool! Of course there might be twist to using the grenade gun that makes it shine under the right circumstances, although for now it only seems to do well against crawlers. And the RPG is certainly a weapon you want to take your time with to make sure every shot is a direct hit, since each ammo pack only giving you a single rocket means you can't afford to miss. But yeah, a lot of the synergies will probably only show up once there's a reasonable class mix after the first few days of people testing the new toys. RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 19:40
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The resisting/vulnerable spots other than head shots JUST went in with the beta, so you're not stupid for never noticing. That system is loving awesome and lets us do all kinds of cool poo poo like making power cores vulnerable to bullets, making shots bounce off poundy arms and making Husks explode when you shoot them in their fuel tanks.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:43
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Questioner86 posted:Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it. This is cool, as running around for the first couple of waves was definitely The Thing To Do for our group and it'd be nice to get away from it, but I'm glad this is a beta because this is a pretty bad implementation. Granted, the reason we did that (for context, we regularly played on Suicidal medium length) was because we felt it was necessary to run around for 5 or 10 minutes or so to generate the economy to actually afford our tier 4 weapons by the time Scrakes rolled around (wave 4), and then waves 5 and 6 we grabbed the rest of our equipment and wave 7's concern was just "okay do we all have medic pistols." Which, honestly, seemed fine - we failed enough to make it an actual challenge and when we tried to make the jump to HoE, the innate lack of wild resources in that pretty much killed us (and the tougher zeds I guess). Anyway, long story short is that without the extra revenue we didn't feel properly equipped to deal with the zeds thrown at us. I feel like a better approach to wild resource scarcity would be to not make them nigh-impossible to find but to instead put an upper limit on the amount that can spawn per wave; like, 2 weapons and 6 ammo boxes on wave 1, and then increase it per wave from there. Also, this doesn't explain the nerfs to total ammo reserve, but maybe Yoshiro covered that in his post, I'll have to get home before I can see that - but unless it's a temporary thing to encourage using/testing other weapons in the beta of this early access game, it's pretty dumb. Also, this has probably been brought up internally, but why have random weapons spawn in the world if they're going to be so rare? Are they important to include because it's a thing KF1 did? Is hunting them down for extra dosh supposed to be necessary to generate a proper economy, or should it just provide a nice but thin bonus? Oh, and what's up with ammo boxes giving so little ammo for Firebug weapons? I get not wanting to provide a whole tank of fuel or microwave energy, but 20 fuel for the flamer and 25 for the Caulk and microwave gun is piddly, especially now when ammo boxes are like unicorns. They should all be like, 50 ammo.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:52
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You know which class doesn't need any ammo?  Anyway, yeah, Berserker is rad now. I liked the perk before, and now it's fantastic. It mops up trash for practically for free and can distract the big stuff long enough for people to organize. I'm definitely noticing better accuracy with my swings, so whatever was done on that front seems to have worked out well. I'm also of the opinion that it might be a mistake to, under current conditions, play certain perks in the early waves. I'm mainly thinking of Demo, but probably Firebug and maybe even Support to a lesser extent. Enemy density just isn't that high early on, and exploding/burning a small group of clots is probably a waste of resources if ammo and money are more valuable now.
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Aug 26, 2015 19:53
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Questioner86 posted:The resisting/vulnerable spots other than head shots JUST went in with the beta, so you're not stupid for never noticing. That system is loving awesome and lets us do all kinds of cool poo poo like making power cores vulnerable to bullets, making shots bounce off poundy arms and making Husks explode when you shoot them in their fuel tanks.  So that's why they go airborne so often now. I always attributed it to triggerhappy demos.Bonus Zweihänder shot: http://gfycat.com/ImprobableSaneDorado
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Aug 26, 2015 19:57
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Questioner86 posted:Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it. The ammo changes are extremely irritating and do not help gameplay at all imo. Decreasing the ammo pool won't really help you slow down the economy of a match either, because zeds will still have to be killed to progress and yield their dosh. If you want to stretch out the weapon progression, make ammunition somewhat more expensive, and raise the ammo cap back to the original values or over. The more ammo players buy the less money is spent on upgrades obviously, while still giving them the opportunity to decide for themselves whether they want to spend money for max ammo or go with less and save for a new weapon with the calculated risk to the next round. Oh and it's definitely more fun to have a good amount of shots to give in a zombiemans game.
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Aug 26, 2015 20:00
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Questioner86 posted:Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it. Gotta say, Questioner ole buddy boy, the ammo nerfs across the board are kind of an overcorrection. You start with less ammo, can hold less ammo, can barely find any ammo or weapons on the map, the ammo pickups GIVE less ammo, the Supplier perk doesn't give grenades anymore... It's a bit much all at once. No ammo on wave 1 really changes how the game is to be played, and it doesn't make map knowledge as rewarding. I mean, maybe tune it down a tiny bit, but as it stands, that's super frustrating. Also, the new weak spot mechanics are kicking rad.
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Aug 26, 2015 20:04
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All the tweaks to the Boss fight are great, and i enjoy the new enemy behaviors, although i feel there needs to be a bit of a compromise between being able to exploit-loop scrakes/fps forever like before and them just aggressively sprinting into you constantly until they die - which is especially irritating as a demo who's weapons need a few meters to prime. The only way to get some distance on a charging one is to jump when they punch you (which is kinda badass to be honest) or somehow confuse their pathfinding by jumping over obstacles. Also digging the (new?) stats UI after a match.
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Aug 26, 2015 20:11
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Questioner86 posted:Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it. This feels to much like "you'll play the game how WE want you to play it" and in my 80 hours so far, I never had anyone run around with 1 guy dead grabbing poo poo with one guy dead, we just did it mid-wave. "Correct" weapon for zeds is whatever kills them the fastest, if someone wants to skip a tier I don't see the issue. Not only do the ammo feels like a massive knee jerk reaction it also feels like they weren't tested at all, at this point you're just asking for a re-tread of KF1 with 6 zerkers running around on Suicidal and HoE because the weapons they use actually work without ammo(the zwei in particular seems to be the go to weapon now for those difficulties.) Edit: Forgot to mention the eviserator is still a huge pile of poo poo. Alteisen fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 20:14
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ClonedPickle posted:
This is what the balance hinges on. The reward for finding the weapon should be "cool, I found a useful weapon" that will allow you to supplement what you're currently using. The economy should not, for a typical player, require finding stuff on the ground and selling them inject more dosh into the economy. I say the typical player because there are always going to be some SERIOUS KILLING FLOOR HoE STRATS that basically require that poo poo but that's not 99% of the people who will play Killing Floor. Fortunately we have analytic data that can help us tune all if this and find those sweet spots to make sure people are getting the right weapons, making meaningful choices between weapons/armor/more ammo, and being challenged in an exciting way.
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Aug 26, 2015 20:18
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Sadly the grenade gun doesn't hold up against small fry as their health scales up, the default pistol is a better crowd-clearer. Do trash enemies have scaling health now or something? Or are you reffering to Husks and Sirens (And Bloat body, considering that scales up rapidly but not their head, which would be a bitch for Demo if explosions don't count for headshots) I admit I've not opted into the beta. Questioner86 posted:Glad everyone is playing in the beta and giving feedback, I am reading all of it. Normal build opinions here, since I've not yet opted into the beta. I am a Mediocre Player who spent most of their time in Hard and earns JUST enough for a T2 gun for wave 2, or more frequently have to wait until wave 3. As Support I was basically thanking god that the M4 was so trash that I didn't feel bad skipping over it so I could afford an AA12 around wave 5 (after Scrakes were already showing up, fighting them with a boomstick). As commando on baby mode (Hard  ) The normal build Varmint and Backup Talent pistol let me hobo scrounge my way through early waves trash (even better if I found a shotgun) reasonably so I could pick up a Scar just as scrakes were showing up, then backtrack to a Bullpup purchase to ease my trash clear and Husk/Siren shooting. This also let me pretend I was "Good At Video Games".I adored how the Bullpup had Notably More Ammo than the AK and Scar, along with it's comparative accuracy at full auto. The Ammo nerf sounds like it'd reign in that feeling, and make me want to pull out my SCAR even less considering I'd actually bring it out to shoot husks or sirens people wanted dead faster. Now to somebody with as "Inversely proportional to how important it is you land nothing but headshots" aim as mine, I'd drat well be never using the SCAR except on Scrakes and Fleshpounds if I was trying the Beta, and only grabbing a Bullpup earlier solely because of ammo cuts meaning if I don't land literally nothing but headshots I will run out of ammo merely killing trash, and I would feel like a complete rear end in a top hat rushing for Ammo Boxes while Supports are running around with single digits of ammo. PS: I LOVE Buying T2 weapons ASAP usually. Nailgun is cool. Medic SMG is cool. Boomstick is cool. Bullpup is cool, I was just barely competent enough to get buy without one on Hard to go straight for a Scar (at around wave 4ish, if I'm nowhere near it by then I grab an AK to not be a waste of space vs Scrake/pounds) thanks to Ammo counts and ammo prices. If anything it's T3 I skipped the most because of money/weight/design reasons. AK+Scar is expensive and means I have a choice of how I want to waste ammo vs Trash. Expensive 50 damage bullets to kill a clot with SCAR, or a choice between burst fire and full auto against a clot with AK. I skipped the AK for ammo conservation reasons and went SCAR+Bullpup on the LIVE Build (AK is super sweet, But I'm a big fat idiot who runs out of expensive AK ammo if I go AK+SCAR, on Hard, even without the Beta ammo cuts) Meanwhile for Support M4 is garbage in live. Sounds like the M4 is still garbage and only "Good" because the alternatives have been nerfed so suddenly "8 shells like the Stock shotty, ammo count I used to have on the stock shotty" is looking real attractive only by comparison, even when it weighs an extra three weight and you can only afford to carry it if you are level 20 if you don't want to spend 2/3 your time fighting fleshpounds and scrakes reloading and dealing a small fraction of the AA12 DPS per mag. (The BOOMSTICK has better DPS, bet it still does even vs 8 shells). PS: I know you are testing ammo in general, but why in gods name did the 9mm of all things get a such a huge cut? Even with the increase to Commando weapon pricing, I bet it's ammo still costs more than the Varmint Rifle, on top of still being higher than the Medic SMG. Petty Edit: Please, please don't go crazy with weapons costing specific to themselves amounts. I liked the even and reliable weapon costs. KF1 even without the sliding scale of discounts you have to basically memorize a wiki, and with 10 perks slated we are going to have at least 40 perk weapons in KF2. Section Z fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 20:35
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Questioner86 posted:This is what the balance hinges on. The reward for finding the weapon should be "cool, I found a useful weapon" that will allow you to supplement what you're currently using. The economy should not, for a typical player, require finding stuff on the ground and selling them inject more dosh into the economy. I say the typical player because there are always going to be some SERIOUS KILLING FLOOR HoE STRATS that basically require that poo poo but that's not 99% of the people who will play Killing Floor. Fortunately we have analytic data that can help us tune all if this and find those sweet spots to make sure people are getting the right weapons, making meaningful choices between weapons/armor/more ammo, and being challenged in an exciting way. By the time I actually come across a weapon or ammo crate it is wave 3 or 4 and I'm already full to the brim with my T1 and T2 weapons and possibly armor if I'm lucky with the amount I've killed. I don't get to say "cool, a weapon" until it is too late to matter to me now. I suggest going with the cap on amount of stuff that spawns per wave and ease up a bit on the scarcity. Righ now it is too much, and I'll agree with you, before (on normal at least) there was too much. Quite frankly though, all these ammo nerfs (with ammo box and perk nerfs) make me want to tell you were you can all stick that analytical data. Greatly limited ammo on my zombie shootmans? No no. But it is felt super hard on the 9mm since you are stuck with that in early waves. The AK is especially weird now. It is really expensive and you don't get a lot out of it. Might as well stick with the bullpup and a medic pistol until the SCAR. Also, the flex stuff is really nice, A+. Like the new headless bloat vomit as well. Also, the end of round stats, super nice! Turns out I'm a headshot machine! Broose fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 20:45
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Who the hell memorizes weapon prices? Is there even a way to know how much cash you will get at the end of the wave? Nitpicking aside, here is some feedback for you Questioner: 1) new postgame stats are great. I love them. In fac the whole UI feels slick as hell, which I love because I am a sucker for nice UIs. But that brings me to... 2) In contrast, the HP and armor bars on friendlies looks terrible. They convey information just fine but they look kinda antiquated. Is this a legacy decision or just a placeholder?  3) Ammo nerf feels kinda crippling. I take it you are finetuning this and this is why I don't mind it, I am not in a "holy poo poo you hosed up the game!" mindset but rather in the "okay let's try this and provide actual feedback". As a lvl20 Commando in a Normal server I ran out of Scar and AK ammo midwave thanks to a) low ammo reserves and b) demos and firebugs filling all enemy approach with fire and explosions, making it hard to aim my shots properly. That might be me but still, it feels like both combine into an annoyance. 4) dual aiming feels weird but because this is actually useful instead of a "eh close enough" approach (like in KF1). I like it. But please dual wielding flashlights should be considered 5) Firebug feels great. The microwave gun felt like I was playing Painkiller. The flamethrower could use a range boost maybe? It is hard to noyice at first how much of a reach it had because you know there is fire in the way but I digress. Demo feels weird because the low tier weapons force a completely different approach to the early waves, re: player-enemy positioning and weapon characteristics. I just don't want to see demo as a class you only play later in a match because poo poo is too expensive. The pistol launcher is a great compromise - I can enjoy exploding stuff and I can get C4s pretty early on so there is a reason to spawn as a Demo in wave 1. I feared the Caulk n Burn would feel too similar to the Flamethrower but nope, pretty great. 6) Not actual feedback but I am eagerly awaiting the return of Agent Wilkes. He was the first dlc character I ever bought because I dig the armored aesthetic. Phoneposting btw.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:11
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Do we have damage numbers on the zwei yet? Curious how it compares to the hammer.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:22
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They muffled Foster's voice. I hate it. where do I complain.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:25
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Broose posted:ammo They want to make people more dependent on pistols to start out, and then have them gradually upgrade their gear with the waves. They want T4 weapons like the SCAR, etc to be situational only (which imo sucks). The ammo nerfs basically make it to where you shouldn't even bother with an AK ( and I won't especially now considering I use the Single Shot perk and AK only has burst and full auto ), so I'm stuck using the Bullpup for the majority of the game like it's KF 1 again. I can understand TWI wants to craft a challenging and fun experience but if you're going the route of "more shiney KF 1" then you probably should have just ported KF1 into Unreal 3?
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Aug 26, 2015 21:25
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Oh I don't know if anyone noticed: Hans, Scrakes and FPs are parry strength 4. Pulverizer and Eviscerator are 5. Either the Patriarch is 5 or there might be even bigger zeds in the horizon. 
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Aug 26, 2015 21:31
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The way weapon pickups are currently working, there's almost no point to them because by the time they start showing up people have too much in their inventory to pick them up anyways. They make the most sense on early waves. An AR15 on wave 1 isn't gamebreaking, but it does help a lot, and off-perk it's not a threat to any of the bigger Zeds, nor even some of the smaller ones.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:33
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Skoll posted:They want to make people more dependent on pistols to start out, and then have them gradually upgrade their gear with the waves. They want T4 weapons like the SCAR, etc to be situational only (which imo sucks). The ammo nerfs basically make it to where you shouldn't even bother with an AK ( and I won't especially now considering I use the Single Shot perk and AK only has burst and full auto ), so I'm stuck using the Bullpup for the majority of the game like it's KF 1 again. I'm of the opinion that "Challenge" in a video game should be an extremely distant second place to Fun, and these changes don't sound fun at all, heck it sounds like even Normal would be too annoying to play as it currently is
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Aug 26, 2015 21:40
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Weapons picked up just shouldn't be sellable imo. 90% of the time people would just pick them up for cash unless it was wave 1. This would also prevent allies selling weapons you dropped on death, which could be good for anti-grief in pubs. I like that guns don't show up as much though, previously the "optimal" thing to do was run around and get as many guns as possible and sell them to get your top tier guns ASAP, which honestly was kinda lame and not fun. Now they're rare enough that you can't really do that so you probably won't be getting your top tier guns until the last wave or two, which is a Good Thing. However I think that change can coexist with having reasonable ammo reserves like before the nerf - ammo boxes can and should be relatively rare and ammo should be expensive, but you should still be able to get a decent reserve for the later waves if you have extra cash.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:42
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Suggestion for general improvement of game: Decapitated zeds no longer able to track you perfectly, also, a delayed attack if you do brush up against them. This poo poo is so loving annoying. "Oh, you decapped a gorefast? Have fun shooting it more to stop it from running into you and attacking anyways." I already made it's most vulnerable spot pop, now I have to put five more into it's body to stop it before it hurts someone. Or say trying to gun down a wave that spawned in front of you while running away from another; you've popped all their heads, but you are still hosed and going to take a lot of damage cause they still have phantom heads. poo poo is so loving annoying sometimes.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:48
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Taffer posted:Weapons picked up just shouldn't be sellable imo. 90% of the time people would just pick them up for cash unless it was wave 1. This would also prevent allies selling weapons you dropped on death, which could be good for anti-grief in pubs. Hell, even Wave 1 I will sell the weapon after the dust settles to buy more class guns/ammo/armor. Maybe it could be done like this - you can buy extra ammo for every gun, but every magazine over the current limit (as in, the max for a weapon we have now) weighs half as much as the weapon. That way, with disposable income you can stock up on extra ammo, and it also creates a strategic choice of more ammo <--> more guns. This way, the high damage/low ammo weapons don't instantly become overpowered, because you won't get as much bullets for the buck as with SMGs and ARs.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:49
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Seriously guys, we had fun with the old ammo pickups. I'm sorry we were advancing through the weapon trees too fast for you devs, but we were having fun. I guess we weren't supposed to be having fun. Sarcasm over, the ammo changes compound upon each other and are a massive over-nerf and just not fun. I like what someone said about reverting the ammo changes but making ammo more expensive if you want to slow down how fast players progress through weapons. Right now though it feels like there's a very good chance that players just won't have enough for later waves. On the plus side, I'm very, very pleased with how Hans was redone. Between the tips and the shield (that actually visibly reflects bullets) I've noticed a sudden and dramatic decline in people wasting their (now more valuable) ammo on his smoke phase.
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Aug 26, 2015 21:51
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Questioner86 posted:This is what the balance hinges on. The reward for finding the weapon should be "cool, I found a useful weapon" that will allow you to supplement what you're currently using. The economy should not, for a typical player, require finding stuff on the ground and selling them inject more dosh into the economy. I say the typical player because there are always going to be some SERIOUS KILLING FLOOR HoE STRATS that basically require that poo poo but that's not 99% of the people who will play Killing Floor. Fortunately we have analytic data that can help us tune all if this and find those sweet spots to make sure people are getting the right weapons, making meaningful choices between weapons/armor/more ammo, and being challenged in an exciting way. It's also worth noting (in fact I forgot until just this second) that until the beta, you could pick up a weapon in the wild, drop it, and pick it up again and this mysteriously doubled its sell value from 100 to 200. This is no longer the case in the beta, and is just another factor piled onto us all at once to reduce our economy. Granted, that was a bug and shouldn't be reverted, but I feel like that alone would've brought the economy into a more reasonable area, and would've encouraged players to not hunt for weapons for several minutes because they're not worth as much anyway. Although I'm probably/definitely wrong and it would need further tweaking from where it was. Well, at least this beta will be a wonderful opportunity to get some quality Berserker time in. Broose posted:Suggestion for general improvement of game: Decapitated zeds no longer able to track you perfectly, also, a delayed attack if you do brush up against them. This poo poo is so loving annoying. "Oh, you decapped a gorefast? Have fun shooting it more to stop it from running into you and attacking anyways." I already made it's most vulnerable spot pop, now I have to put five more into it's body to stop it before it hurts someone. Or say trying to gun down a wave that spawned in front of you while running away from another; you've popped all their heads, but you are still hosed and going to take a lot of damage cause they still have phantom heads. If a decapitated zed looks like it's still gonna give me some trouble, I typically give it a punch/weapon bash and then ignore it. The small damage and pushback usually result in it bleeding out before it can attack again. That really only works for a single headless zed giving you a hard time, though. ClonedPickle fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Aug 26, 2015 |
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Aug 26, 2015 21:57
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Oh yeah also the Hans stuff is great. I didn't even know his shield lasted that long.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:00
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Street Hanzo Steel was my credit rating for pulling off a T2 gun on Wave 2, yeah. It was the make or break of "Will I have a Boomstick before Wave 3?" (I am mediocre as hell). I'd back Tier 1 spawned on the floor weapons not selling for cash, but that sounds hard to implement without loving over selling your own weapons you bought personally. Or worse, if it made it so a dropped T2-T3 you actually managed to get back after a respawn couldn't be sold to help fund your T4.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:09
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drrockso20 posted:I'm of the opinion that "Challenge" in a video game should be an extremely distant second place to Fun, and these changes don't sound fun at all, heck it sounds like even Normal would be too annoying to play as it currently is Challenge ought to increase as difficulty increases. That way, people are able to choose how hard they want to try at their fun. If HoE is a barren hellscape with no pickups to be found, so be it. But on normal/hard? Probably not.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:10
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Has anyone else noticed that Bloat vile now seems to be heat seeking or is it just me?
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Aug 26, 2015 22:39
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Skoll posted:Has anyone else noticed that Bloat vile now seems to be heat seeking or is it just me? Yeah, I also feel like I'm getting hit by it quite a bit more often, especially when berserking. Yet another reason to roll with the Zweihänder, its stab has just enough range to pop their heads from just out of puke-range
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Aug 26, 2015 22:41
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Making the ammo more expensive wouldn't be good either, it would just lead to everyone going zerk till they have enough money to buy their class weapons and then swap over, or just flat out staying as a zerker because they aren't as ammo limited as the other classes.quote:Has anyone else noticed that Bloat vile now seems to be heat seeking or is it just me? Yea its got some major tracking on it now.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:44
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LuciferMorningstar posted:Challenge ought to increase as difficulty increases. That way, people are able to choose how hard they want to try at their fun. If HoE is a barren hellscape with no pickups to be found, so be it. But on normal/hard? Probably not. dorkasaurus_rex posted:The way weapon pickups are currently working, there's almost no point to them because by the time they start showing up people have too much in their inventory to pick them up anyways. Agreeing with both of these posts. Also, sirens on wave 2? Dick move. 
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Aug 26, 2015 22:51
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Yeah, honestly I'd really not mind one bit if random weapon drops were removed and replaced with more ammo pickups. Right now it's basically "An off-perk weapon. Yay." *sell* If I wanted to play commando or support I'd go switch my perk so picking up a varmint rifle or pump-action really doesn't encourage me to "multiclass". The only one that interests me really is the second 9mm because right now dualies are good on all perks, especially demolitions, and give on-perk experience. Also, I'm definitely noticing the Siren got a noticable buff with the weak/resistant point system. That cage they're welded into is very good at deflecting shots at their chest.
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Aug 26, 2015 22:58
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Alteisen posted:Do we have damage numbers on the zwei yet? Curious how it compares to the hammer.
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Aug 26, 2015 23:03
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Shumagorath posted:I'm completely clueless as Berzerker and don't know how to parry Skrakes, but the Zwei was definitely better than the hammer in terms of swing radius. I still picked up the hammer for single-target damage because I never liked the Eviscerator. I'm looking for pure damage numbers, I ran out of hammer charges against hans so if the zwei delivers the same damage without needing ammo then I'll gladly use it.
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Aug 26, 2015 23:21
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