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Abandoned Toaster posted:Maybe if they at least let doors come back between waves that would be viable again. That would rely on a good portions the Zeds not simply teleporting away from the welded door to a fresh spawn point. I've literally circled around to welded doors quickly shut on multiple enemies in say, the Manor Basement. Only to see a single lonely cyst slapping away at it (on the live build). It seems doors have a maximum allowance of zeds that will gather up by them before they say fuckit and respawn somewhere else, especially if it's not a glass one you can see through.
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Aug 27, 2015 07:28
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Microwave gun is the best. It rounds out the Firebug arsenal by giving him a weapon that can melt trash and throw down with heavies (albeit at a higher ammo cost). Caulk gun, though, is the Tier 1 weapon that I can't get rid of soon enough. I'll usually bear with it for a round and then sell it ASAP to buy the trench gun. With the current economy balance, I'll stick with that and skip the regular flamethrower until I get the microwave gun. Flamethrower is pretty decent, actually, but money is too tight to progress up to it on 7 Wave length games at least. But overall I'm very pleased with this class. One thing that's kind of surprising is that Firebug got the faster perk weapon reload passive instead of Demo. I'm not really complaining but it seems kind of misplaced on Firebug, considering most of the perk weapons are already high capacity, gradually depleting sprayers that have a DoT effect that can cover you during a reload. Arguably, Firebug's fast reload makes sense mainly on the trench gun as it let's you shuffle in shells quicker. Meanwhile, Demo's arsenal (aside from C4) is comprised of single-shot launchers, which rely on ideal enemy positioning to maximize damage. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a cluster of zeds standing side by side only to have my grenade pistol take out just one clot because they've lined up in a column by the time I've finished closing the breech. The window of opportunity for effective shots is already so rare, compounding it with having to reload so much makes weapons like the grenade pistol feel like poo poo. I really hope Tripwire considers switching the perk weapon reload passive to Demo since that class could use it more.
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Aug 27, 2015 07:51
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moot the hopple posted:
Why not both? The biggest things I think Firebug needs right now is a health or armor buff, a damage increase, and a replacement for the Caulk n Burn. I dont know why TW decided there needed to be two flamethrowers. Also, it would be nice if the Flamethrower got an alt fire that made it behave a little bit more like the KF 1 Flamer where it could actually launch fire.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:08
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The actual Demo perk is underwhelming period. Most of the skills are meh and the passive bonuses don't really help the Demo, except for the extra ammo. It feels like you have to be at least around level 15 for it to be decent. I'm hoping it'll get a Berserker-style rework in the next major patch because it needs it. The ammo nerf doesn't really make any sense for Commando. The Bullpup ammo downgrade means I immediatly pawn it off for the SCAR instead of building up cash so I can hold it and the SCAR together, ala the AK-47 and SCAR in KF1. The lower ammo pool for the Bullpup means you can only go fullauto with two or so magazines before putting your ammo reserve in critical danger. The AK-12 has so little ammo for an automatic-only weapon that there's zero reason to purchase it in favor of going for the SCAR. Also, it seems to me that the Firebug doesn't do that good of a job at killing trash unless you put sustained fire on the horde. I've seen several cases where mere Cysts in Normal and Hard have managed to survive being put on fire. In KF1, being set on fire was a death sentence for anything weaker than a Gorefast at low levels. It makes it feel like you're just better off headclicking with the Commando instead of toasting dudes with the Firebug.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:17
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The caulk n burn feels so useless. The range is poo poo, the damage is pathetic. Its like tf2s flamethrower. Microwave gun is just  though.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:21
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I still don't see the point in actually using T1 weapons found on the ground. Once you get past wave 2 at most, they're pointless and only exist to sell off. Nobody has ever said "Oh man, an AR-15/Pump Shotgun/Crovel on the ground! Awesome!" and nobody ever will. Just get rid of them and replace them with ammo boxes because those are much more useful, even with the current nerf.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:35
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Have to say I agree the ammo nerf's seem to do the exact opposite of what they're intended, reducing running around scavenging at the end of a round. I usually play with a group of 4 on Suicidal, and frequently we'd have a few scrakes/FP's left at the end of around while running around finding ammo boxes to refill aa12's. Ammo nerf's seem like they'll push this phase out earlier and longer due to less ammo in crates.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:35
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Shoefish posted:Have to say I agree the ammo nerf's seem to do the exact opposite of what they're intended, reducing running around scavenging at the end of a round. I usually play with a group of 4 on Suicidal, and frequently we'd have a few scrakes/FP's left at the end of around while running around finding ammo boxes to refill aa12's. Ammo nerf's seem like they'll push this phase out earlier and longer due to less ammo in crates. Enemies will insta-rage when there are few enemies left. However, you can still game it by keeping some trash alive with the Scrakes for scavenging time.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:37
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I'm surprised you can't just find dosh on the ground. It would be better than another katana.
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Aug 27, 2015 08:40
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closeted republican posted:I still don't see the point in actually using T1 weapons found on the ground. Once you get past wave 2 at most, they're pointless and only exist to sell off. Nobody has ever said "Oh man, an AR-15/Pump Shotgun/Crovel on the ground! Awesome!" and nobody ever will. Just get rid of them and replace them with ammo boxes because those are much more useful, even with the current nerf. I like the T1 weapons on the ground not just as something to sell, but as something to kill trash mobs with so I can save the ammo in my good weapons towards stuff worth caring about while also slowly leveling other classes. if I find a pump shotgun on the ground as commando, I'll try and run through the ammo on trash mobs if I can before I sell it before the end of the round. still not the most useful thing in the world, but with ammo reserves getting absolutely hosed on in the latest patch, it's a good habit to have. e: I really do like that the entire community as a whole is saying that tripwire hosed up on changing the ammo. tripwire recognizing problems and tackling it the absolute worst way gives me some vague memories of RO2. Literal Nazi Furry fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 08:40
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yeah overall the only things this patch seems to have gotten right in any way was fixing up Berzerker, fixing up some of Commando's things(which is screwed up by the ammo nerfs), and the Microwave Gun & Demo weapons, everything else is just outright bollocks
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Aug 27, 2015 08:49
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closeted republican posted:The actual Demo perk is underwhelming period. Most of the skills are meh and the passive bonuses don't really help the Demo, except for the extra ammo. It feels like you have to be at least around level 15 for it to be decent. I'm hoping it'll get a Berserker-style rework in the next major patch because it needs it. To be fair Demo was pretty terrible till he got a few levels in KF1, plus after a few updates they where a chore to level since they made their stuff way more expensive as that is the tripwire approved way of "balancing" poo poo. Agreed on the sentiment with the ammo changes, seriously stop loving nerfing poo poo while there's only a few classes available, if your metrics or whatever show that to many people are using support its probably because it is/was the best to handle the big poo poo and if you want people to use the 9mm, make it a weapon worth using. Not sure what prompted the decision to make the last few things auto enrage, leaving scrakes for last was generally a viable strategy now if you do, you run the risk of having like 6 or 7 or them pissed off at the same time which is utterly retarded, kiting is extremely hard due to the teleporting and holding out is also drat near impossible due to welding being worthless and teleporting since they'll only bang on a door for a bit, or just destroy it in one shot if its a big zed.
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Aug 27, 2015 09:00
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Alteisen posted:To be fair Demo was pretty terrible till he got a few levels in KF1, plus after a few updates they where a chore to level since they made their stuff way more expensive as that is the tripwire approved way of "balancing" poo poo. True, but even the Demo's later levels don't make him look impressive. In KF1, A level 4+ Demo looks quite impressive, even on paper, while KF2 Demo has boring perks and slight stat increases that don't seem all that effective. If they want peiple to use the 9mm Pistol, make it half-decent instead of the worthless POS it feels like at the moment. The KF1 9mm Pistol could always decap trash with one shot unless you were in HoE, which made it quite handy for quicking decaping something heading your way. In KF2, it takes two headshots to decap a loving Clot in anything past Normal, making it terrible compared to even the weakest starting weapon you get.
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Aug 27, 2015 09:09
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closeted republican posted:True, but even the Demo's later levels don't make him look impressive. In KF1, A level 4+ Demo looks quite impressive, even on paper, while KF2 Demo has boring perks and slight stat increases that don't seem all that effective. Reactive armor is the stupidest goddamn perk I have ever seen, moreso than the anything in the old zerker tree. Its literally a last ditch thing which doesn't even proc all the time and if you are at 5 health you're probably dead anyway.
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Aug 27, 2015 09:13
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Alteisen posted:Reactive armor is the stupidest goddamn perk I have ever seen, moreso than the anything in the old zerker tree. It doesn't proc all the time? Hahaha what a worthless POS. At the moment, the Demo seems like it's taking the slot of the old Berserker, as far as uselessness goes.
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Aug 27, 2015 09:19
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It sounds terrible in current implementation but I admit I laugh at anything that "ruins kiting" even as it runs me down and murders my casual rear end. Like, if I've spent longer than 60 seconds running away from something, what little sense of tactics I even have goes out the window and is replaced with that scene from Predator where the dude waits on a bridge with a knife (and then dies  )Then again the buggy mechanic that bothers me most is one hardly anyone gives a poo poo about. Because you can't see "Enemies warp up a wall and clip through a railing too high for you you make it over without crouch jumping" instead of taking the T stairs at the start of Biotics, when you are sprinting in the opposite direction of the enemy 
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Aug 27, 2015 09:21
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I don't have any 25s so it's hard to judge relative power levels and whatnot compared to all my old level six poo poo, but are scrakes and fleshpounds significantly bigger bullet sponges this time around? I guess having played mostly sharpshooter in kf1 may warp my view but even on normal poo poo in this game feels like it's taking a tediously long time to die regardless of what gun I use.
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Aug 27, 2015 09:24
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The Crooked Warden posted:I don't have any 25s so it's hard to judge relative power levels and whatnot compared to all my old level six poo poo, but are scrakes and fleshpounds significantly bigger bullet sponges this time around? I guess having played mostly sharpshooter in kf1 may warp my view but even on normal poo poo in this game feels like it's taking a tediously long time to die regardless of what gun I use. Yea they're way tankier in this. Edit:  
Alteisen fucked around with this message at 09:40 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 09:38
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Alteisen posted:Yea they're way tankier in this. It does not feel fun or good. This may make me a casual. Russian Remoulade fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 10:14
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The Crooked Warden posted:It does not feel fun or good. This may make me a casual. I think its mostly because KF1 had multiple ways to deal with them or flat out shut them down before they got out of hand, zerker could stun scrakes, demos could blow up FPs easily or have a sharpshooter deal with them, none of that is in this game stunning scrakes or FPs with a zerk can be fickle or getting the knockdown to proc and now with they enrage upon being the last ones you pretty much NEED to mag dump the moment you see one.
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Aug 27, 2015 10:54
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Alteisen posted:I think its mostly because KF1 had multiple ways to deal with them or flat out shut them down before they got out of hand, zerker could stun scrakes, demos could blow up FPs easily or have a sharpshooter deal with them, none of that is in this game stunning scrakes or FPs with a zerk can be fickle or getting the knockdown to proc and now with they enrage upon being the last ones you pretty much NEED to mag dump the moment you see one. I agree with this. Theyre implementing things that have no real counter to them in game yet except for everyone mag dumping a single target.
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Aug 27, 2015 11:08
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Skoll posted:I agree with this. Theyre implementing things that have no real counter to them in game yet except for everyone mag dumping a single target. Parrying used to be a counter, with FPs anyone could stand in front of them keep them stunned and stumbling and scrakes could be parried at any given time but with the changes you can't really stun them with a good parry anymore when they enrage, most you can do is block and pray your team is mag dumping before you die.
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Aug 27, 2015 11:11
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A good skill for the Demo would be to make C4 work as proximity explosives a la KF1. Right now, if you spend a ton of extra Dosh buying as much C4 as you can and filling a room with it, you'll quickly lose track of whichever one you're about to detonate (a notifier/HUD icon would be nice) and their tactical advantage as area denial quickly becomes limited. You'll as much deny the area to yourself as you will to Zeds. Haven't tried making a hat of them though. I also miss the old beeping sound.
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Aug 27, 2015 12:30
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Does the game still look decent on the lowest settings? I just check the system requirements and my laptop only meets the minimum video card requirement (CPU and RAM match or exceed the recommended).
Mr.48 fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 12:58
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Mr.48 posted:Does the game still look decent on the lowest settings? I just check the system requirements and my laptop only meets the minimum video card requirement (CPU and RAM match or exceed the recommended). Yes. The game looked great even on my old 650.
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Aug 27, 2015 13:09
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It also seems like the many sirens erase your C4s and in the beta they're resilient enough to usually get a single scream off, so you can't really lay long-term traps on a chokepoint anyway. The C4 is basically a bigger, heavier, more expensive grenade, so all it does is make me miss the KF1 C4.
RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 13:10
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In KF you could make your pipes explode by shooting them with the default handgun, I'm not sure if this was a bug or a feature. But now that you can only detonate bombs in the order you laid them down, being able to detonate groups of them under zeds by shooting at one would be pretty useful.
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Aug 27, 2015 13:15
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I haven't tried Demo yet. Basically what you guys are saying is the C4 doesn't act like ye pipebombs of old?
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Aug 27, 2015 13:20
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So this is pretty awesome. http://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/showpost.php?p=1432158&postcount=3 Yoshiro posted:Fully modding support is coming with this update, so yes. You can do pretty much everything we can do except make engine changes.
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Aug 27, 2015 14:19
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Skoll posted:Yes. The game looked great even on my old 650. Do you mean it ran well on respectable settings, or that it looked good visually on the lowest settings?
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Aug 27, 2015 14:37
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Skoll posted:I haven't tried Demo yet. Basically what you guys are saying is the C4 doesn't act like ye pipebombs of old? If so, I hope this changes. I've not played Demo yet, but I hate to think how annoying it must be to juggle using my gun and trying to remember which C4 charge will detonate next, or that I have to care about setting them off at all. I loved the "awesome/suicide" nature of the KF1 pipebombs.
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Aug 27, 2015 14:59
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Mr.48 posted:Do you mean it ran well on respectable settings, or that it looked good visually on the lowest settings? It looked good on medium for me. Game was perfectly playable and it seems to be quite pretty on every setting. Gromit posted:If so, I hope this changes. I've not played Demo yet, but I hate to think how annoying it must be to juggle using my gun and trying to remember which C4 charge will detonate next, or that I have to care about setting them off at all. I loved the "awesome/suicide" nature of the KF1 pipebombs. We'll see what happens, I guess. Hopefully TWI takes all this feedback into account before finalizing the update. They seem to be listening to us so far, so I have hope the ammo nerfs at least will be rolled back and Demo and Firebug getting some sort of buff or reorganization. Speaking of Firebug,  I still think it needs buffs, and the trenchgun sucks rear end. 
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Aug 27, 2015 15:12
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I feel like the ammo reduction isn't that big of a deal but I do agree with the idea that randomly-spawning weapons should just be dropped as a mechanic and those spawns should be replaced with more ammo drops. Also I'm hoping that the behavior where ammo boxes are giving way less ammo to some guns is just a bug stemming from their newly-granted ability to grant partial mags. C4 owns actually, I like it way better than KF1 pipe bombs. Alt-fire and gain 100-ish XP while it rains body parts, what's not to love? I also gotta say I like the implied role of Demolitions through their XP rewards, which is group-blaster and fleshpound-gibber. An RPG shot fucks up a fleshpound, but a scrake can take two and keep coming back for more. Fleshpounds and Scrakes are supposed to be the thing that everyone has to work together to take down, which is why they have stingers announcing their arrival in KF2, and it's nice that the first heavy hitter perk added doesn't just invalidate the only two major threats.
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Aug 27, 2015 16:14
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Mr.48 posted:Do you mean it ran well on respectable settings, or that it looked good visually on the lowest settings?    This is on everyithng low/medium, on a GTX 560Ti and a stunningly powerful Core 2 Duo with 4 gigs RAM I can play the game in 720p in silky smooth 40 fps if the Steam fps counter is to be believed. The game is really well optimised. EDIT: Or so I thought it was 720p, it seems to be 1600x900 I didn't touch the default settings too much.
Kikas fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 16:31
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Yeah, I watched a person put 3 RPGs into a scrake while I was a commando and it only took about 1/4 of its HP away, on normal. That explosion resistance is no joke. Hans also seems really easy on normal now without his super guns and the gas grenades don't hurt nearly as much as I remember. His attacks on normal didn't do much damage at all actually. Anyone else playing on normal experience this as well? Lets list the good things in the beta for a change of pace: Hans introduction (With multiple pro-tips!) and shield and improved visibility on grenades. End of game stats Flex tech Microwave gun RPG
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Aug 27, 2015 16:36
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Hans' final stage seems tougher than it used to be. Not in terms of Hans dealing damage (that's actually really well done now IMO except when he decides to literally pin you against geometry with no possible way for you to escape) but in terms of his ability to soak damage. Does he have really high resists in the last phase or what? On another note, RPGing a fleshpound that a berserker stunned/knocked down is the best thing and should never be changed, just FYI Geight posted:C4 owns actually, I like it way better than KF1 pipe bombs. So explain to me how best to use it, because every time I've tried it I end up thinking it stinks. 650 dosh for 3 charges (yes, ammo refills are cheaper, but for early waves where dosh is too tight these days, that is hosed for an initial buy) and you're facing like 80 zeds a wave. In early waves if I take C4 I'm using the 9mm (and gently caress that nonsense) or I'm saving up and taking C4/Grenade Pistol/M79 which is fine but at that much money I might as well buy an RPG. I just don't see a place for C4 in early waves and it's technically the demo T2. I might see it for wave 7/Hans if your teammates kill literally all trash that isn't bunched up. What am I missing? Psion fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Aug 27, 2015 |
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Aug 27, 2015 16:51
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The zweihander is so drat satisfying. I haven't seen the numbers, but I don't even care if it doesn't have the same damage potential as the super sledge, it just feels so RIGHT.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:08
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Man, microwave gun and a few demolitions sure up the overall "sploosh" factor    Also, this was our demos' preparations for Hans. We still had to go down to pistols to finally kill him. Dude seems to have some serious explosion resistance. 
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Aug 27, 2015 17:23
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Kikas posted:
Alright I went ahead and bought the game and joined the steam group. You's geezers better be fun to play with.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:36
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Perestroika posted:Also, this was our demos' preparations for Hans. We still had to go down to pistols to finally kill him. Dude seems to have some serious explosion resistance. Yeah they basically want to make Hans the anti-Patriarch in every way, so the explosion bouquet strat was not gonna work right out of the gate.
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Aug 27, 2015 17:42
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