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I bought this just a few days ago and goddamn, the stress. Horribly addicting though. I'd like to see some kind of multiplayer on this thing; in my mind, what I'm imagining is some sort of co-opetitive mode where you and a friend would be helping each other survive the guards, but at the same time racing each other to get the goods in the level--a sort of Spy vs Spy thing. This just happened to me on Experienced, final mission. sob  I was feeling so good about getting to the final mission with a ton of augments and items too. This loving game is such stress; I'm now on my second Experienced run, this time with Internationale synergizing her hacking with Nika's weapon, as well as Fusion/Lockpick, which I don't think was a good idea, and I just keep getting out by the skin of my teeth.Are there any good uses for Seed and Rapier? They both sound like they'd be pretty bad things to have by the time you're halfway through a campaign.
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Aug 28, 2015 10:52
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| # ? May 28, 2024 13:12 |
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Seed is one of the best starting programs, and keeps getting better once you get better programs. Think about it this way: power drip gives you+1 pwr/turn, fusion gives you 1.33 on average, but seed gives you however many pwr your free program costs, up to 4. On my last run I had Seed, Mercenary, and OF Prism, which is a sweet combo. Your first 3 Mercenaries are free (+1 free pwr each) and your fourth only costs 2. By the time the alarm level is about to go up and Mercenary resets, you've usually collected enough consoles that you can eat the 4 and 6 pwr Mercenaries, or you can just wait a turn. I agree that rapier mostly sucks, though. I think I might try it in an Always Run Challenge, though. 
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Aug 28, 2015 13:12
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You buy rapier because it's the most valuable, with the intention of selling it and buying a full set of real programs on your second or third mission.
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Aug 28, 2015 13:41
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I can't say I like Seed and/or Rapier or have a good use for Rapier. Seed by itself is ok, but it is hard to beat just having more power, hence why I almost always run Power Dynamo since I know it will be Alarm 2 before I really need the power, but it is good if you do find seed on a server. As for Rapier, that's a early smash and grab play with you hoping you find something a lot more reliable long term on a server. If you have a slot unused sure why not, but to start with it is trouble once alarm 2 rolls round which would happen very quickly with you smashing and garbing to get the utility out of it. Parasite is similar and is very useful early game with late game utility especially on Omni-forcers, but you will be begging for something that can hack something right the hell now pass day 1 especially if you are not running on file Internationale as you will be burning too many turns just waiting on cameras. I almost always run lock pick 1.0 just because it is so reliable. But at the end of the day it's all about picking your poison. What are you willing to sacrifice? turn time? Hours in a day? luck? money? Alarm level? But if you get nothing else, get the Wisp program or a TAG pistol. Seeing the guard's path forever for the cost of a little power lets you operate like a surgeon instead of a butcher. The TAG pistol can also be used to manipulate guard patrols, but it's pretty rare thing to do. Wait till you hit Expert+ and you will really be screaming.  I try to hold off until alarm 3+ before I start clubbing people. Around alarm 5, all bets are off and it gets lethal if available. This was suppose to be a sneaking mission, not a widow fund event. Note alarm level 59 and irc, I had to drag one of them to the elevator.  Gyshall posted:I'd love a Comedy Option agent who was just a big hulking dude with a giant gently caress-off minigun. 
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Aug 28, 2015 13:49
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oohhboy posted:I can't say I like Seed and/or Rapier or have a good use for Rapier. Seed by itself is ok, but it is hard to beat just having more power, hence why I almost always run Power Dynamo since I know it will be Alarm 2 before I really need the power, but it is good if you do find seed on a server. Can you actually find Seed on mainframe terminals? I don't remember ever seeing it, and I thought the starter power programs were off limits. I haven't really experimented with Seed but I've been meaning to. Going by the math, you could do a ton of cheap, fast hacking with Mercenary by front-loading your hacks on the first turn after an alarm level advance, then doing one a turn up to the next level. In theory, you could also hack an entire level for free with Seed and Parasite by laying one a turn. You'd just have to wait them all out, and sometimes that can take awhile...  Rapier, as far as I'm concerned, is garbage. You need programs that are either consistent or become MORE effective at higher alarm levels, not less. It's really only good if you're playing on a difficulty too low for you, because then you can tear the level apart and be gone by alarm level 3. It's not a terrible pickup later if you have more reliable tools already, but it's easily the worst starting option you can take. Honestly it would be pretty good for later days on Endless, since you're just sprinting to find the exit card and leave, as long as you didn't get the +10 alarm levels daemon at the start.
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Aug 28, 2015 16:17
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protomexican posted:I agree that rapier mostly sucks, though. I think I might try it in an Always Run Challenge, though.
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Aug 28, 2015 16:44
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Zombie Samurai posted:Can you actually find Seed on mainframe terminals? I don't remember ever seeing it, and I thought the starter power programs were off limits. I have seen the starter power programs, but they are exceedingly rare even on server farms. However there are far better uses for the slots than another power program on endless since you should be packing portable server 3s and multiple distributed computing augs. Finally finished expert plus. Murdered two people on principle. The game was already won and bringing dual Flurrys on Nika at AP3 with a biogen dart and not using at least one of them would have been sad. The last level was more tedious than hard as both rooms were right on the other side from the start room. Had to use the rewind though from a silly mistake. Was sure not to be greedy this time. Left 2 meat shields to stand pin, they weren't even spotted.  It's so annoying not seeing sight lines as you have to waste APs looking through doors twice, observing guards and looking around corners. The KO restriction was problematic at times if you weren't more ambush happy. At expert plus things sort of stops being fun as wasting so much time around doors breaks the flow. One more achievement to go. Endless plus 5 days.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:20
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oohhboy posted:It's so annoying not seeing sight lines as you have to waste APs looking through doors twice, observing guards and looking around corners. The KO restriction was problematic at times if you weren't more ambush happy. At expert plus things sort of stops being fun as wasting so much time around doors breaks the flow. One more achievement to go. Endless plus 5 days. Archive Prism is really good for Endless Plus if you have the power to support her. While disguised, she doesn't alert guards when opening doors, and on the later days you can send her out solo to check troublesome safes for the exit key. Running Dynamo means she can stay disguised indefinitely. By day 4 I had so many guns and charge packs that if someone noticed me opening a door, it was the last thing they ever saw.
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Aug 28, 2015 19:39
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Endless Expert plus day 5 done. Started with Internationale and Archive Prism. Simply didn't have the power to run her for any useful period of time, while it did save her bacon once, if I had Nika instead things would have been a lot smoother as I was almost swimming in lethal and non-lethal. Between modulate and the lack of portable servers, I didn't get enough Computing Augs either. Had to run from a jail break as there was just no way to do it with the resources on hand. They are likely to go down on day 6 as the setup is just not there, not to mention the thousands on credits wasted on murder. Expert plus is just not that fun, the difficulty is just a hair too much. Time to go back to my near maxed day 11 agency for some fun.
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Aug 29, 2015 19:13
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On my second Experienced run, final mission. Starting room has four doors and two Omni dudes (the ones with 8 firewalls) pathing through it. Managed to kill one's firewalls (Seed/Hammer/Dagger, total cost 3 PWR  ), but ultimately found a way to evade them. Unfortunately they began huntin me, and the security hub turned out to be accessible only through a small room with a few random objects and a guard elevator. After a fun time trying to get three guards off my back, M0nst3r got shot in the SecHub doorway. Managed to KO another guard and revived M0nst3r. I doubt I can keep everyone alive, but I can probably hold out long enough to get the codes while moving Central to the mainframe.
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Aug 30, 2015 22:27
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Remember anybody other than Monster or Central are meat shields at this point, if by taking a bullet lets Monster run through, do it. Guards are restricted to one attack per turn.
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Aug 31, 2015 04:59
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oohhboy posted:Remember anybody other than Monster or Central are meat shields at this point, if by taking a bullet lets Monster run through, do it. Guards are restricted to one attack per turn.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:05
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Shumagorath posted:I'm listening to the soundtrack on YouTube right now. Please sell it to me so I can make a proper playlist for work
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Aug 31, 2015 05:06
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Shumagorath posted:Ahahaha I wish. I have definitely had a guard on overwatch fire multiple shots. Yeah they can definitely fire multiple times. They'll shoot once, and then if they see someone else, they'll re-enter their alert state, and shoot you if you move again.
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Aug 31, 2015 05:18
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Is it possible for this game to generate unwinnable levels? Because I'm stuck behind a bunch of locked doors and I can't find any keys to open them. The one guard I knocked out didn't have any in his pockets.
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Oct 16, 2015 15:51
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Baron Bifford posted:Is it possible for this game to generate unwinnable levels? Because I'm stuck behind a bunch of locked doors and I can't find any keys to open them. The one guard I knocked out didn't have any in his pockets. It shouldn't be. As far as I know, locked doors are only on "shortcuts" through the level. The essential path should always be unlocked. Can you post a screenshot of your map? Earlier in the thread someone asked a similar question, and it turned out there was a single unchecked square next to a bookcase where the door was.
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Oct 16, 2015 15:55
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Ah, I located an unlocked door using Incognita mode. Thanks anyway.
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Oct 16, 2015 16:07
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Based on stik's talk a few pages back, no it's not possible to generate an unwinnable level because of the way the game generates it. The path is created and tested and then discarded if a character can't physically move from the start to the finish.
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Oct 16, 2015 16:19
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It is possible to generate a level that is insanely difficult to complete due to camera/guard/etc placement, but if you're good about preparedness and willing to give a mission up and bug out, you can usually scramble away with at least one agent left standing. Still sucks when it happens, but that's part of what gives the game its tension.
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Oct 16, 2015 16:34
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Here's something I've always wondered. Basic locked doors are designated as "Lv1 locks" but there are no Lv2+ locks, only vault and exit doors. Were more complex locks planned and then removed prior to release, is that future-proofing against possible additions, or is it just arbitrary naming?
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Oct 16, 2015 17:15
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They likely found having 2+ different types of standard locked doors too frustrating and/or obnoxious to play with.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:41
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I found it a little weird that, after stunning a guard, there is no option to steal his weapon. That would have been useful, no?
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Oct 19, 2015 07:33
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Baron Bifford posted:I found it a little weird that, after stunning a guard, there is no option to steal his weapon. That would have been useful, no? All of the weapons are ID locked so they would be useless to you, unless you are just hitting someone with them.
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Oct 19, 2015 07:35
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But you would at least disarm the guards. They can't shoot you dead after they wake up. Also, what about taking handcuff and a ball gag on missions? Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 07:44
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You'd think you could at least make sure the guard didn't have a gun either. Sure he could keep you in sight and raise the alert level but the most he could do by himself would be the same three round melee knockouts your agents start with. Maybe while disarmed he'd look around a bit then head for the guard elevator and come back with another gun or a new guard would take his place. e: ^^^ I see great minds think alike.
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Oct 19, 2015 07:50
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From a balancing standpoint it'd make the game way too easy (barring a big redesign) if you could disarm KO'd guards, or if you could simply cut their throats or smother then dead them while they lay helpless. Sometimes you just gotta shrug and say, "because video games." 
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Oct 19, 2015 10:10
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It's not a criticism, it's more of a musing over peculiar video game logic.
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Oct 19, 2015 10:14
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I think given the heart monitor mechanic it could be nice to have a lethal melee weapon in the possible item list.
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Oct 19, 2015 15:13
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Shine posted:From a balancing standpoint it'd make the game way too easy (barring a big redesign) if you could disarm KO'd guards, or if you could simply cut their throats or smother then dead them while they lay helpless. Sometimes you just gotta shrug and say, "because video games." Invisible has a lot of stuff like this, and it's all pretty funny to think about. Like, Flurry Guns are the least practical weapons imaginable, because why would you ever need a gun with infinite ammo that has to be disassembled after every shot? For that at least, I write it off as a consequence of arming yourself from vending machines.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:11
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It doesn't have to be disassembled after -every- shot... you can pass it around in a circle like a baton first so everyone gets to squeeze the trigger (I went on a killing spree last night as it was the only sensible way to get past 3 guards that were in sync. I'm not proud of what I did...).
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Oct 19, 2015 16:50
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Yeah, but... that just makes it make less sense.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:55
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The answer is DRM. The answer is always DRM.
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Oct 19, 2015 17:46
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Maphis posted:I went on a killing spree last night
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Oct 19, 2015 20:49
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Baron Bifford posted:Speaking of killing, is this ever a viable option? I had the impression that if you kept killing guards, reinforcements would just keep spawning ad infinitum until you were overwhelmed ("Cut off one head, two more shall take its place!"). Extremely viable, and on Expert Plus practically required. The only real drawback killing guards has over KO'ing them is advancing the alarm tracker. Weigh that over saving you time stealthing around and removing that guard for good.
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Oct 19, 2015 21:24
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Zombie Samurai posted:Yeah, but... that just makes it make less sense. The flurry gun is a nuclear reactor with no heat sinks or cooling system so clearly your agents have to hot potato it to each other avoid burning their hands.
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Oct 20, 2015 04:53
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Ignatius M. Meen posted:You'd think you could at least make sure the guard didn't have a gun either. Sure he could keep you in sight and raise the alert level but the most he could do by himself would be the same three round melee knockouts your agents start with. Maybe while disarmed he'd look around a bit then head for the guard elevator and come back with another gun or a new guard would take his place.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:18
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Gyshall posted:Man, that is a great idea. Like a third neutral faction or something?  That's an amazing idea! Neutral third faction, two different teams of spies need to infiltrate and steal the same information. So they have to fight in the shadows or whatever whilst still trying to avoid the attention of the neutral AI guards.
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Oct 20, 2015 11:12
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Love Stole the Day posted:
Oh man. This would be amazing, if difficult to implement. Another faction of spies with a pun name (I just tried and failed to think of one as good as Invisible Inc), that you have to race to the objective, and/or play keep away with once one of you gets the objective.
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Oct 20, 2015 16:54
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i just killed a guard with a cooker rifle and now I don't know how to get a reload. How do I get more bullets?
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Oct 20, 2015 19:20
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| # ? May 28, 2024 13:12 |
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Consumable charge packs completely refill a weapon's ammo count (or clear an item's cooldown!). You can get them for 400 credits from any nanofab or find them on higher-level guards. Obviously this means that weapons with higher ammo counts are more valuable to you, since a charge pack will get you more shots back. Cookers are fine if you need an armor-piercing solution and murder sparingly, but I tend to pass on them in favor of Hand Cannons.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:29
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