|
Organized crime can become huge problem within a society, any society really. Especially when it becomes established for real. I don't really know how well they do in Sweden, the police certainly don't seem to be doing much or we'd hear about it. But if there's drug related killings out in the open and crime-related violence is spiking, that's a cause for concern. Nevermind the ethnicity of the perpetrators.
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 12:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Say what you want about Scandinavia but at least we made an effort to get rid of our institutionalized discrimination instead of embracing it and making it a core aspect of our economy. I don't know about the latter, but Ghettoization definitely points to institutionalized segregation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:08
|
|
|
computer parts posted:I don't know about the latter, but Ghettoization definitely points to institutionalized segregation. Could just as well be a sign of income inequality or a housing crisis, oh wait gently caress we have both.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:25
|
|
|
Oh please. Scandinavia has never had to deal with integrating anything like the numbers the US does. It's fine to poo poo on the US, but don't make us out as experts on something we've barely had to deal with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Could just as well be a sign of income inequality or a housing crisis, oh wait gently caress we have both. And so does the US, and yet immigrants there are still better integrated (even if you compare ones from the same era, i.e. ignoring all the recent refugees).
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:29
|
|
|
By what measurements?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 13:40
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:Could just as well be a sign of income inequality or a housing crisis, oh wait gently caress we have both. Eh, our income inequality is lower than most other countries including countries with much better integration.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:03
|
|
|
It's been heading in the wrong direction awfully quickly for the last decade.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:29
|
|
|
computer parts posted:And so does the US, and yet immigrants there are still better integrated (even if you compare ones from the same era, i.e. ignoring all the recent refugees). the us takes very few refugees iirc i'm fairly sure that norway now takes more syrians than they do, for instance
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:35
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:the us takes very few refugees iirc You forget about northern Mexicans and Cubans. Most aren't "refugee" refugees but that doesn't mean they don't provide similiar challenges.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
Scherloch posted:I'm just saying, making Swedish street crime out to be some huge problem while downplaying the severity of idiots and drunks killing themselves and others with their cars is a tad retarded. If I say "that's our biggest problem" then I mean exactly that. I acknowledge that it is an issue of utmost importance. Do you understand what "downplaying" means? Evidently not. Driving under the influence poses a high risk of collateral damage, just as street crime involving guns and explosives.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:00
|
|
|
Xoidanor posted:You forget about northern Mexicans and Cubans. Most aren't "refugee" refugees but that doesn't mean they don't provide similiar challenges. economic migrants and refugees are very different types of people with very different priorities and regulatory laws &c, it is not by any means a trivial distinction
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:06
|
|
|
Yeah Mexicans have to be careful with the immigration issue, before you know it half the country is filled up with gun-happy americans that try to nab the whole place and turn it into a McMansion ranch  *1Return Mexico Clay!! *1)The Son,’ a Historical Novel by Philipp Meyer
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 15:44
|
|
|
The Danish government wants to reevaluate 2,750 citizenship applications that had already been approved, but were not passed into law because the election got in the way. (All new citizenships must be granted by law twice a year as required by the constitution.) Among the new requirements, applicants must now pass much more difficult Danish courses to be considered. quote:Vahid, pictured here, is an example of how a life can be destroyed when European governments blindly enforce strict immigration policies and deport young Afghan refugees, despite warnings from experts. Vahid and his younger brother, Abofazl, were deported to Afghanistan from Denmark two months ago. Since then, Vahid has lived here on a riverbed in Pol-e Sokhta, a neighbourhood where many of Kabul's drug addicts and homeless people congregate. Many of them have been returned by force from Europe or neighbouring Iran to a future with little prospect, and to a country where they no longer have families or social networks. Vahid and his brother both suffer from anxiety, saw therapists and received medication for their conditions while in Denmark. They lost contact with their parents, who were living as refugees in Iran, three years ago. Yet, the Danish authorities argued that Vahid would be able to support Abofazl, who is 16, if they were deported. Three days after arriving in Afghanistan, however, the brothers got separated. Since then, Vahid has spent every day looking for his brother. Each day at the crack of dawn he travels to Wardak, the brothers' volatile, Taliban-teeming birth province, where Abofazl got lost. Before nightfall, when Wardak becomes too dangerous, Vahid returns to Pol-e Sokhta where he sleeps on the ground after having his bag, blanket and other possessions stolen by addicts. The brothers' case is a travesty, not least because their fate wasn't unpredictable. In fact, the deportation was so problematic that the International Organization for Migration, which aids returned asylum seekers in cooperation with Western governments, refused to have anything to do with it, leaving the brothers completely to their own devices.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:20
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:If I say "that's our biggest problem" then I mean exactly that. I acknowledge that it is an issue of utmost importance. Do you understand what "downplaying" means? Evidently not. Driving under the influence poses a high risk of collateral damage, just as street crime involving guns and explosives. You claimed that the streets of Malmö are less safe than eastern europe based on a single incident. Please provide us with proper statistic to support your case. kalven fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:22
|
|
|
In other news, we have finally gotten our first penal colony: http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/fengsel/foerste-norske-fangefly-landet-i-nederland/a/23516614/ 
Alhazred fucked around with this message at 17:49 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 16:38
|
|
|
SplitSoul posted:The Danish government wants to reevaluate 2,750 citizenship applications that had already been approved, but were not passed into law because the election got in the way. (All new citizenships must be granted by law twice a year as required by the constitution.) Among the new requirements, applicants must now pass much more difficult Danish courses to be considered. Liberal Alliance to the rescue http://www.politiko.dk/nyheder/la-vil-ikke-medvirke-til-uanstaendig-kurs-om-statsborgerskab
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 17:02
|
|
|
Savage Cracker posted:Liberal Alliance to the rescue It's sad times when liberal alliance, of all parties, have to be the ones to defend basic human decency.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:04
|
|
|
Revelation 2-13 posted:It's sad times when liberal alliance, of all parties, have to be the ones to defend basic human decency. Yeah, I mean, as long as we don't forget that they want to reject literally all refugees.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
SplitSoul posted:Yeah, I mean, as long as we don't forget that they want to reject literally all refugees. But in this particular, specific case, where the people have (for all intents and purposes) been granted danish citizenship, and the new goverment decides to do a takesie-backsie, they really turn out to be the good guys, surely that tells the whole story 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:36
|
|
|
Revelation 2-13 posted:But in this particular, specific case, where the people have (for all intents and purposes) been granted danish citizenship, and the new goverment decides to do a takesie-backsie, they really turn out to be the good guys, surely that tells the whole story They don't give a gently caress about the people who received their letters after the election was announced, though, but  This is interesting if true, though: quote:Nu rykker politikere fra LA og oppositionen på to måder: Dels ved at stille et ja i udsigt til samtlige ansøgere under en eventuel fornyet Indfødsretsudvalgsbehandling i morgen, dels ved at varsle et medlemsstillet lovforslag med navne på samtlige, der har fået stillet indfødsret i udsigt. SplitSoul fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Attitude Indicator posted:just gonna leave this here, you know, because Same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAlX3UjBap0
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2015 18:55
|
|
|
danno_norwegian_relations.jpg 
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 08:58
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:If I say "that's our biggest problem" then I mean exactly that. I acknowledge that it is an issue of utmost importance. Do you understand what "downplaying" means? Evidently not. Driving under the influence poses a high risk of collateral damage, just as street crime involving guns and explosives. Look, the point I was originally trying to make was how incredibly loving hilarious it was that you were schooling some dude about how your murders don't cause any collateral damage, right after posting about how the biggest problem in Estonia right now are idiots and drunks killing themselves and others with their cars. But I was tired after a night shift, so I probably didn't make as much sense as I wanted to. As for downplaying: "Brutal stabbings and shootings in the middle of the city in broad daylight and grenade attacks on police patrols is something that simply doesn't happen here. Currently our biggest problem is driving accidents caused by idiots and drunks" certainly makes it look like you're comparing these things. Problem is, the brutal poo poo isn't the norm in Sweden, far from. The drunks is apparently the norm in Estonia, and a bigger problem by orders of magnitude. If you were indeed comparing them, then you're either downplaying the severity of the drunks, or you're blowing the brutal poo poo way out of proportion. And as I'm writing this, I realize that you're doing the latter, because of course you are.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 09:00
|
|
|
 http://www.politiko.dk/nyheder/s-vil-gaa-endnu-laengere-end-regeringens-krav-til-statsborgerskab
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 10:30
|
|
|
The point is that it's transgressive violence. Drunks killing each other is "objective," acceptable to a degree because it's contained (in this case "in their shed" like OhYeah says). Grenade attacks, however, spill over and violate boundaries. This is often the logic behind opposing immigration: policy failures lead to neighbourhoods and cities turning into "Little Third Worlds". It's bad that grenade go off in a "peaceful Nordic nation". It's "okay" for grenades to go off outside of Sweden/Europe like it is "okay" for drunks to kill each others in the shed. Of course it isn't really okay, but it is ultimately tolerable in that it's "contained". It shouldn't happen anywhere, but things are not going to get better in a fundamentally unjust international system. e: I should specify that I don't mean Malmö-ans have no cause to complaint. BravestOfTheLamps fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Sep 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 10:39
|
|
|
yo any oslogoons know the ins and outs of the moxnes court case? is there any substance to it or is it as ridiculous as it comes off?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 14:59
|
|
|
kalven posted:You claimed that the streets of Malmö are less safe than eastern europe based on a single incident. Please provide us with proper statistic to support your case. Well, this is very personal and/or anecdotal evidence, but when I walk around in Tallinn I'm not worried about getting blasted to bits by a handgrenade. If I were to live in Malmö I would definitely look around before crossing the street: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/09/uk-sweden-grenades-idUKKCN0QE09F20150809 On the other hand, I'm not sure if I have any moral high ground over Sweden when I live in a country where one absolute mental case just tried to burn down a refugee centre: http://www.baltictimes.com/immigration_center_in_estonia_set_ablaze_on_thursday_morning/
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 15:33
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yo any oslogoons know the ins and outs of the moxnes court case? is there any substance to it or is it as ridiculous as it comes off? I think it might be as ridiculous as it comes off. Morally, he's very much in the right, legally... I dunno. What he did might be/probably is illegal strictly speaking, but it definitely shouldn't be. Moxnes' less redacted version of the document, didn't give away any more info about the patients, but made it clear which politicians were to blame. Really cool that Høyre redacted themselves out of a document so that they wouldn't be implicated in a scandal. Even cooler that every party in Oslo apart from SV and Rødt thinks this is OK. There was a good show about the scandal on Ekko on P2. Tried to find it now, but it seems it has been archived and no longer is available online :/ It wasn't really focusing on the legal stuff iirc, but more about the treatment of the dude at the center of it all. https://radio.nrk.no/serie/ekko-hovedsending/MDSP25001714/24-01-2014 gently caress Høyre, Fabian needs to go. Johansen seems to somehow be loving this election up tho...
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 16:25
|
|
|
Dirk Pitt posted:Sorry to break up the thrilling chat about the dangers of immigration. I visited beautiful Stockholm earlier this year and am now aggressively pursuing moving my family there. I am an American iOS developer, not a Syrian. Try Paradox? http://career.paradoxplaza.com/jobs?department_id=&location_id=243
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 16:27
|
|
|
OhYeah posted:Well, this is very personal and/or anecdotal evidence, but when I walk around in Tallinn I'm not worried about getting blasted to bits by a handgrenade. If I were to live in Malmö I would definitely look around before crossing the street: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/08/09/uk-sweden-grenades-idUKKCN0QE09F20150809 I always check my foreign news sources before crossing any streets. One day the Warboyz were out with their war rig. Because of this timely report I looked both ways before crossing lest I get run down by these hordes from Estonia, the lawless lands of drunk driving.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
V. Illych L. posted:yo any oslogoons know the ins and outs of the moxnes court case? is there any substance to it or is it as ridiculous as it comes off? What would you like to know spesifically, and in what way is it ridiculous? I mean, I think I know what you're getting at but I'll make words about it if there's something specific you're looking to know. It's a pretty interesting case, actually.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 17:30
|
|
|
Wooper posted:I always check my foreign news sources before crossing any streets. One day the Warboyz were out with their war rig. Because of this timely report I looked both ways before crossing lest I get run down by these hordes from Estonia, the lawless lands of drunk driving. Seriously, I would look twice before crossing any street that could have cars on it in Estonia. To be safe, I would also double check any street that couldn't possibly have a car on it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 17:32
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:This is often the logic behind opposing immigration: policy failures lead to neighbourhoods and cities turning into "Little Third Worlds". It's bad that grenade go off in a "peaceful Nordic nation". It's "okay" for grenades to go off outside of Sweden/Europe like it is "okay" for drunks to kill each others in the shed. Of course it isn't really okay, but it is ultimately tolerable in that it's "contained". It shouldn't happen anywhere, but things are not going to get better in a fundamentally unjust international system. Eh, isn't the problem that we in Sweden haven't had handgrenades going off in the streets and now we have? That we in fact have a worse situation when it comes to gang violence compared to 20 years ago? Also, what are the policy failures and what are the alternatives? As far as I know, immigrants gets housing and social security to a much higher level than in their home countries. Also, there is an ethnic factor in this. BRÅ 2005 showed that people from the Middle-East and Afrika were 4-5 time likely than the ethnic Swede to be suspected for violent crime including rape (even after correcting for social factors) where especially men between 15-25 years old were overrepresented. Considering which immigrants are currently coming to Sweden, is it really that unlikely that certain types of violent crime is going up? As for the ethnic factor, for example Asians are less likely to be suspected compared to the average Swede.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 18:39
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:
And Finns are more likely to be suspect compared to the average North African: Innebär detta att Nordafrikaner svarar för en stor del av den misstänkta brottsligheten i Sverige? Nej, det gör det inte. Deras andel är tvärtom mycket liten. De som dominerar bland de misstänkta, utrikes födda i materialet är i stället nordbor (och då särskilt personer från Finland). Personer från Finland, Norge, Danmark och Island utgör närmare 5 procent av de misstänkta medan personer från Nordafrika utgör 0,7 procent.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 18:57
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:And Finns are more likely to be suspect compared to the average North African: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUNl5v34xtc
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 19:23
|
|
|
Hans Rosling owns
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
We really need more people to tell Adam Holm he's wrong about everything.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 19:36
|
|
|
Why is Hans Rosling turning up everywhere suddenly?
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 19:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 10:11 |
|
|
Alhazred posted:And Finns are more likely to be suspect compared to the average North African: You shouldn't let Finns into your country, problem solved.
|
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2015 19:57
|
|
