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The whole rationalization that people try to come up with for Twin Snakes is hilarious. It's a remake, who gives a poo poo about canon when 98% of the story is the same.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:05
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Firstly, I never said the older games are 100% terrible - I just think MGSV is much more consistent in it's quality. Secondly, I've never played Twin Snakes and it also isn't MGS1. If you want an example of what I mean when I'm talking about lovely cutscenes, think about every MGS4 slideshow, or the end with Big Boss, or the long dull codecs throughout basically every game apart from MGSV.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:05
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Funky Valentine posted:"...and then there was this WOOOOSH jet sound and Grey Fox did like seven backflips in midair and then Uncle Hal pissed himself and..."
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Sep 7, 2015 23:05
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blackguy32 posted:The whole rationalization that people try to come up with for Twin Snakes is hilarious. It's a remake, who gives a poo poo about canon when 98% of the story is the same. And about 90% more awesome.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:08
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I almost wish the ending of MGS5 had been that Venom killed the real Big Boss outright because it would make several things in the earlier games even funnier. Like Liquid's entire plan in MGS1 would've been pointless from the start because the "Big Boss" whose remains he needed wouldn't be genetically related to him and his men, and the body in MGS4 actually being Solidus would've ironically meant the remains were closer to Big Boss's than if they'd actually been "Big Boss." And the epilogue of MGS4 is just Venom stitched together with Solidus bullshitting Solid Snake because he's just as tired of this bullshit as Snake is at that point. Ocelot would know all of this and, as Zero was the only other person who knew and couldn't tell anyone, would take this secret to his grave because it's too hilarious that neither David nor Eli actually met their real father and they and the world got all hosed up because of some AIs and the guy Cool Soldier-Dad Big Boss turned into an angry brain-damaged version of himself. Full Battle Rattle posted:Really I wish there was some kind of way to reset the soldiers down to the base levels. Even doing the storage shed things there's still a zillion dudes in riot suits everywhere. And helmets, oh my god helmets. When every little outpost is packed with super difficult dudes it starts to impact how fun the game is, imo. Most armored guards can be taken out with nut shots (seriously, shoot them below the belt). Riot suit guys are a bitch but an underbarrel sleep grenade launcher is a good cure. Until they start handing out gas masks.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:19
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Minorkos posted:I think I agree with most of what you said but sadly there's too much anger at video games in this post If you read what he wrote through NVG's, you see "Third Child hosed around with this post" near the very bottom clearly visible Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 23:23
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Biggest problem with the story is it has good ideas but they never realize them full, like the shrapnel causing hallucinations and stuff, that barely comes up at all
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Sep 7, 2015 23:32
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The cassettes at the end really tie up a lot of my lingering need for story exposition. It might have been more fun to have these character moments in person and along with the action though.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:32
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The reason nobody talks in this goddamn game is that most of their conflicts with each other are so stupid if they talked it out for 20 minutes you could easily come up with a solution. You have to keep characters from talking to each other too much because their secrets are so obvious you'd have to be stupid to miss them. It's clear that Venom doesn't remember anything prior to Snake forming MSF (this is why he doesn't say 'kept you waiting, huh' to miller.) so he can't actually talk to any of his bros because it would become pretty evident that he's not Big Boss. The 'player character is not who you think it is' is Kojima ripping off himself, it's not particularly original and it's a pretty big letdown, honestly. That being said, I kinda like the idea of the body double, I just wish that BB had shown up as a character in the second half to do some stuff. EDIT: We even got a short prologue that starred the character most people 'wanted' that seemingly kills him at the end. This is basically the same twist from MGS2, and I was expecting better 
Full Battle Rattle fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Sep 7, 2015 |
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Sep 7, 2015 23:37
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Funky Valentine posted:Good thing I had the foresight to name my avatar Jack. I named mine John, which still looks ridiculous on a passport since there was no last name. The annoying thing is, if you put two names, it would screw up the message written on the back of the photograph where Big Boss is like "Dear [NAME]. You're Pretty Good, Love Vic Boss" because it makes it laughably impersonal as if Big Boss gives one to every single MSF member and just switches the name around.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:46
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked John.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:48
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The reason nobody talks in this goddamn game is that most of their conflicts with each other are so stupid if they talked it out for 20 minutes you could easily come up with a solution. You have to keep characters from talking to each other too much because their secrets are so obvious you'd have to be stupid to miss them. It's clear that Venom doesn't remember anything prior to Snake forming MSF (this is why he doesn't say 'kept you waiting, huh' to miller.) so he can't actually talk to any of his bros because it would become pretty evident that he's not Big Boss. He says kept you waiting huh if you press Y/Triangle when Miller asks.
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Sep 7, 2015 23:50
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Full Battle Rattle posted:It's clear that Venom doesn't remember anything prior to Snake forming MSF (this is why he doesn't say 'kept you waiting, huh' to miller.) so he can't actually talk to any of his bros because it would become pretty evident that he's not Big Boss. But he does https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syu1WP9x4sk
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Sep 8, 2015 00:00
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Has anyone hacked the game (or cheat engined) to get Quiet back? Kinda lame losing a buddy because a sandstorm lasted longer than the usual 3 minutes.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:00
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The way your crew greet you with "Boss, no matter who you are, you're still my CO." and "I don't care who you're supposed to be, you're stil my boss!" after you've done mission 46 is really weird. Did I miss some speech by Venom or Ocelot where they explain to everyone what's going on?
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Sep 8, 2015 00:00
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In It For The Tank posted:The annoying thing is, if you put two names, it would screw up the message written on the back of the photograph where Big Boss is like "Dear [NAME]. You're Pretty Good, Love Vic Boss" because it makes it laughably impersonal as if Big Boss gives one to every single MSF member and just switches the name around.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:02
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Full Battle Rattle posted:It's clear that Venom doesn't remember anything prior to Snake forming MSF (this is why he doesn't say 'kept you waiting, huh' to miller.) so he can't actually talk to any of his bros because it would become pretty evident that he's not Big Boss.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:03
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Venom clearly remembers Zero and Les Enfants Terribles in tapes.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:07
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I'm with Kaz. gently caress Big Boss!
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Sep 8, 2015 00:12
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I am glad that Kaz got his revenge on Big Boss dumping him by training his son-clone to kill him, his right hand man, and his other son-clone.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:21
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Under the vegetable posted:He says kept you waiting huh if you press Y/Triangle when Miller asks. Anyone can say it after the person asks. The real BB said it before he was out of the cutscene in GZ. I get what you guys are saying, but that's supposed to be a pretty clear sign that we're not playing as Big Boss.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:22
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Funky Valentine posted:Venom clearly remembers Zero and Les Enfants Terribles in tapes. I guess I stand corrected then.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:23
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So how do I unlock Hand of Jehuty and wormhole fultons?
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Sep 8, 2015 00:28
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Ekusukariba posted:So how do I unlock Hand of Jehuty and wormhole fultons?
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Sep 8, 2015 00:29
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Nakar posted:Wormhole Fulton is the Legendary Jackal. What, really? I caught that thing ages ago and I have no option to develop the wormhole fulton. Not that it matters now anyway
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Sep 8, 2015 00:32
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Keep in mind that Wormhole is an actual different Fulton device, not an upgrade, so you have to manually equip it in the tools section.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:34
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Nakar posted:Hand of Jehuty is from the Legendary Ibis animal capture. Wormhole Fulton is the Legendary Jackal. Thanks, now that I'm finally getting around to finishing off the side missions guess I'll start with those, still gonna suck when i go to S rank missions, I miss my easy mode sniper
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Sep 8, 2015 00:34
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Full Battle Rattle posted:The reason nobody talks in this goddamn game is that most of their conflicts with each other are so stupid if they talked it out for 20 minutes you could easily come up with a solution. You have to keep characters from talking to each other too much because their secrets are so obvious you'd have to be stupid to miss them. It's clear that Venom doesn't remember anything prior to Snake forming MSF (this is why he doesn't say 'kept you waiting, huh' to miller.) so he can't actually talk to any of his bros because it would become pretty evident that he's not Big Boss. I think the story would've worked better if Venom knew he wasn't Big Boss and was doing it out of loyalty(you know, the kind of guy who jumps in front of big boss) and that the former MSF guy in mission 22 did the raid because he knew you weren't real.
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Sep 8, 2015 00:58
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randombattle posted:And about 90% more awesome. I won't disagree with you there. I prefer Twin Snakes over the original simply for the quality of life improvements.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:08
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I'm pretty exited to play the next sequel where you play Kaz and have to manage your burger chain. Also the very last tape you get is great.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:12
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I think everyone agrees that up until Portable ops, the games were good at building a world and the writing was coherent at least. MGS4 is a clusterfuck but it does wrap up everything, and it doesn't cause any big problems that I recall. Nanomachines makes some of the characters, like Vamp, less fun. Nerds decry PoOps as not canon, or not completely canon, but it is never never contradicted, occasionally referenced in later games, and only retcons Frank Jager's origin and Sokolov being alive. It's also the best possible bridge between MGS3 and MG1. Big Boss steal's Gene's Meme to begin with, even dressing like him later in life. Kojima also produced it. Master Miller being in peace walker didn't make any loving sense did it, definitely should have been Campbell. Otherwise peace walker is just a side story in Big Boss's becoming Gene, aka The Boss's successor. Revengeance was supposed to take place between MGS2 and MGS4, and the story beats match that perfectly. After MGS2, Raiden has decided he has to protect people. During a job, he loses a fight and has his body replaced by doctor Madnar, and through the course of discovering who ultimately is responsible eventually reverts to Jack the Ripper. In the course of the game he saves Sonny and defeats one of the new global powers, one nestled neatly between governments and coporations, a PMC. We get a better idea of exactly how the patriots control things like the war economy. His wife never shows up because she's in hiding with Campbell. Of course Platinum decided it should be set after MGS4 so they changed some of the details, no longer Madnar, no longer Sonny. Ground Zeroes is great. MGSV, idk. Glad it didn't bring back all the characters like MGS4, but the ones it did include mostly don't really make sense. Another plot where someone, in some way, is a copy of another person. Miller makes way less sense. Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 01:12
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Panzeh posted:that the former MSF guy in mission 22 did the raid because he knew you weren't real. I think Miller says "he heard some nasty rumors" so maybe that's actually the case
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Sep 8, 2015 01:13
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Modest Mao posted:MGSV, idk. Glad it didn't bring back all the characters like MGS4, but the ones it did include mostly don't really make sense. Another plot where someone, in some way, is a copy of another person. Miller makes way less sense. I think the worst bits of the game were where they tried to be fanservicey. It would've been fine as a mostly self-contained story about Skullface. People say episode 51 rocked, for example, but I dunno, it felt massively indulgent and also featured Mantis, and Mantis is probably the worst character included in the game- and I think I would rather have seen Solidus and Raiden than Eli. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 01:23
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Rebenok only really works as some abstract personification of vengeance. He's this mute, elemental force that enlivens and enables people driven by revenge - he gives Volgin another shot at Big Boss, he gives Skull Face the power he needs to unleash Sahelanthropus on a world he hates, and he finally sides with Eli because apparently Liquid's inferiority complex is like Gourmet Hatred or something. The problem is none of this jives at all with what we know of Mantis, and Rebenok's own total muteness and seeming lack of agency makes him a really frustrating element in the plot.
Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 01:29
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Oxxidation posted:Rebenok only really works as some abstract personification of vengeance. He's this mute, elemental force that enlivens and enables people driven by revenge - he gives Volgin another shot at Big Boss, he gives Skull Face the power he needs to unleash Sahelanthropus on a world he hates, and he finally sides with Eli because apparently Liquid's persecution complex is like Gourmet Hatred or something. The problem is none of this jives at all with what we know of Mantis, and Rebenok's own total muteness and seeming lack of agency makes him a really frustrating element in the plot. Mantis basically gets heavily influenced by negative emotions, and especially children. He doesn't really have any agency of his own other than what whoever's influencing him at the moment is. It's noticeable in mission 20, where he's sending Volgin to attack Snake, but is stopped for a moment because the kid you're sent to save panics, and draws him away. The reason Sahelanhropus goes berserk is because Eli is in one of the DD choppers, and Mantis abandons the influence of Skullface for Eli's.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:32
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Panzeh posted:I think the story would've worked better if Venom knew he wasn't Big Boss and was doing it out of loyalty(you know, the kind of guy who jumps in front of big boss) and that the former MSF guy in mission 22 did the raid because he knew you weren't real. I'm really glad I was spoiled before playing, because there are a lot of little details that hint at Venom being an imposter. Big Boss ordering Venom around in the prologue, Venom magically forgetting Russian, Ocelot's scene where he reprimands the rookie for acting flashy, Huey (and Peacewalker) not being sure who Venom is at first glance, etc. The tape where Huey is telling Snake about this totally rad cloning program he heard about, appears to be Snake feigning ignorance but he could legitimately not know about the LET project.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:35
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Broseph Brostar posted:I'm really glad I was spoiled before playing, because there are a lot of little details that hint at Venom being an imposter. One of the very first tapes has Venom and Ocelot discussing LET. He knows about it.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:38
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So has any site or person or whatever started data-mining the game to catalog cut stuff? I want to see what the Camp Omega stuff was going to be so bad.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:40
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Broken Cog posted:Mantis basically gets heavily influenced by negative emotions, and especially children. He doesn't really have any agency of his own other than what whoever's influencing him at the moment is. It's noticeable in mission 20, where he's sending Volgin to attack Snake, but is stopped for a moment because the kid you're sent to save panics, and draws him away. Yeah, that's their explanation but it's hard to think of him doing anything other than being Kojima's giant hand making sure the plot happens. There are a lot of negative emotions going around TPP. Why Skullface in particular? I mean, Miller is loving pissed and unhinged.
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Sep 8, 2015 01:42
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Part of it is just that sort of power creep stuff that always happens with prequels (look at the Star Wars EU for some hilarious examples of this). A huge, vocal block of fans are always going to want bigger and better spectacles, which is why you get super-powered Mantis and a Metal Gear that is miles ahead of anything in even MGS4. There's enough leeway to explain parts of it away if you really can't get over it, though. Mantis is effectively neutered by the time of MGS1 - everyone has anti-pyschic implants and suppressive gene therapy, and he's basically become this tortured old man who has to hide behind a mask so that stronger wills don't invade his own mind. Mantis has some degree of agency - he gives Eli the third English parasite and in Chapter 51 he makes a conscious decision to remove his parasite / save him from being carpet-bombed, which implies that there is something human underneath. It just seems like everyone else's rage and thirst for revenge allows them to essentially hijack Mantis. It's certainly not the most subtle plot device, but I think it makes sense in the context of MGS1 and in some ways makes him even more tragic. As an aside, I really like the open world, but in my dream version of the game, there would be side-ops that take you to a few smaller, sub-GZ-sized for a couple fan service setpiece bits. The horror elements in TPP made me wish we got to walk into Mantis' village as he was burning it all down or something. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 01:47
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