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Things KF2 needs: -KF1 Trader as playable character -Solaire's Armor skin for the LARPer
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Sep 8, 2015 22:02
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Metrohunter posted:then you run away from the fleshpound to run into the scrake I then drop all 5 of my Medic Grenades at my feet and pray for a bit.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:02
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so, Hans. I've posted about this before and I think I can narrow it down: To me, Hans' health scaling feels like a problem with 5 or 6 players (on Suicidal) - but it's doable on every solo or 3/4 person run barring anything like him pinning you against geometry. He feels 'fair' up to 4 and then 'not so much' at 5 and 6 players. Some of the perceived difficulty from a 6 player Hans may be player skill related, but can someone find (questioner hi) and post how the hell his scaling works? I'd like to know how it actually works and see if that lines up with how I feel it works. Psion fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 22:07
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Alkydere posted:Things KF2 needs: Commando Chicken.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:12
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Alkydere posted:Things KF2 needs: These are both very important things. Please make them a priority, TWI.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:22
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Oh my god Solaire's Armor would be brilliant.
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Sep 8, 2015 22:24
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Faffel posted:Oh my god Solaire's Armor would be brilliant. Body item: Solaire Requires Firebug perk "PRAISE THE SUN"
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Sep 8, 2015 22:45
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Psion posted:so, Hans. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but it's worth taking a peek at if it feels broken. If some some reason he's getting 10x as much health going from 4 to 5 players there's a problem. There are a couple of scaling systems in effect that I can make an effort to explain. Solo scaling: There are some things that only happen on solo to make the game playable without backup. Your syringe is more potent, spawning pace is adjusted, certain ZEDs have their damage output greatly reduced so they don't just combo you into pulp instantly. This is why I always kinda roll my eyes at "SOLO HoE WORLD FIRST ELITE STRATS!" because solo is absolutely the easiest way to play the game even on HoE. Player scaling: Wave size, health on some ZEDs (not trash) and spawn rates/groups are increased. ZED damage doesn't scale based on the number of players (2-6), so they don't hit harder but there are more ZEDs and many of them are harder to kill. Bosses, Fleshpounds and Scrakes gain a significant amount of health due to player scaling. Difficulty scaling: Health on most ZEDs is REDUCED on Normal. Health on some ZEDs (not trash), ZED damage, ZED speed and spawn rates/groups are increased with difficulty. Dosh bounties for killing ZEDs and surviving waves are decreased with difficulty. Various attacks, combos and behaviors unlock for all ZEDs as difficulty is increased. Clots are more likely to sprint in reaction to being shot or to sprint immediately after spawning, crawlers evade, husks use their flame thrower, gorefasts string together longer attack combos, etc.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:04
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Have had zero problems with hans. He is cheesed easily by running zerks and medics, even on hell on earth. Maybe toss in a firebug that we've bougth 4 or 5 microwave guns for. I wish the teleporting zeds would be fixed. Nothing is more frustrating and cheesy then being the last one left and having a siren and sc teleport behind the next door and sandwich you in.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:12
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Lemon Curdistan posted:These are both very important things. Please make them a priority, TWI. May have to have a conversation with FROM. Though if they end up with a character voiced entirely for whoever did Solaire's voice in DS1 that would be hilarious and fantastic in so many ways. Payday and L4D characters would also be appreciated. I doubt those are hard to get since Payday 2 literally has Keanu Reeve's body as a playable character (Simon Viklund had to do the voices) and apparently takes place in both the same universe as John Wick and L4D (Payday 1 had a Mercy Hospital level). The latter, well KF2's already on steam, and L4D characters tend to spread out to just about any zombie shooter on Steam if you just ask politely. I mean, they're even playable in RE6's Mercenaries gamemode.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:20
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I want my fireman from KF1
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Sep 8, 2015 23:24
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If I had to be generous for the "Why" Hans's health suddenly feels crazy past X amount of players, I'd say they make his health more overkill at 5 or 6 to try and compensate for "5 or 6 players switched to the favorite efficient+perk of the moment" unloading on him at once. But you still have players playing the game like Normal People, instead of everyone saying gently caress it and grabbing a Zweihander+Microwave gun with the millions of dollars they have saved up from never missing a single shot. So Joe Q Not Following The Wiki Guide gets a comparatively harder time. Ramsus posted:Have had zero problems with hans. He is cheesed easily by running zerks and medics, even on hell on earth. Maybe toss in a firebug that we've bougth 4 or 5 microwave guns for. 
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Sep 8, 2015 23:30
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Alkydere posted:May have to have a conversation with FROM. No, just like they didn't have to have a conversation with Universal or HBO to have Monty Python or Game of Thrones references in there. 
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Sep 8, 2015 23:41
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Section Z posted:If I had to be generous for the "Why" Hans's health suddenly feels crazy past X amount of players, I'd say they make his health more overkill at 5 or 6 to try and compensate for "5 or 6 players switched to the favorite efficient+perk of the moment" unloading on him at once. I agree with this except it takes about one game played and not a wiki guide to realize what guns and perks are good for hans. Also hans taking reduced damage from explosives, having very high melee damage, and tossing gas grenades is a clue that you probably shouldn't go commando, demo, or support.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:48
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Questioner86 posted:I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but it's worth taking a peek at if it feels broken. If some some reason he's getting 10x as much health going from 4 to 5 players there's a problem. Thanks for the info! I definitely feel like the jump from 4 to 5 and/or 4 to 6 is abnormal. It's his last phase in particular. I haven't focused too much on his initial phase lengths (if you asked me for a gut feeling they're "ok") but that last one ... bullet sponge territory. We all commented on it last night and we've noticed it before too. obviously we don't have data in game beyond commando health callouts, but our commando was doing health callouts for us and his health was not decreasing proportionally compared to how hard we can knock him down with a 4-player group. Whatever the increase in hp is, it sure felt like his health outpaced our team's increased overall damage output and based on the data we had in-game, this was true. I don't know if you want to look into Hans doing some dynamic adjustment to help a team where 3 people die in the first phase and then 3 people have to grind through a full 6-player Hans for the rest of the bossfight but it might be nice as another option. If that leads to PRO STRATS of 5 people killing themselves on Hans' first form, well, that's stupid but I'm sure there's some way to handle it 
Psion fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Sep 8, 2015 |
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Sep 8, 2015 23:48
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Ramsus posted:I agree with this except it takes about one game played and not a wiki guide to realize what guns and perks are good for hans. Also hans taking reduced damage from explosives, having very high melee damage, and tossing gas grenades is a clue that you probably shouldn't go commando, demo, or support. I'd say its kind of sad to have mandatory classes, it'd be nice if they varied out weapons for classes so they've got more trash clear and boss clear variants.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:51
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Well people wanted zerk buffed so here we are. They can tank hans, stand in gas, never run out of ammo, and knock hans down. I'm not sure that means the other classes need a buff though. Also we don't have all of the other classes yet so things are really going to change.
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Sep 8, 2015 23:56
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I feel the problem is that its way harder to deal with melee damage now, FP will now zerk on forever and Han's melee combo seems more damaging/aggressive.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:01
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Drakes posted:I feel the problem is that its way harder to deal with melee damage now, FP will now zerk on forever and Han's melee combo seems more damaging/aggressive. Yeah, that's the real problem I have. Right now I play with pubbies and so many teams melt as soon as the big guys show up. Even if they all turn their attention on a Scrake or FP that it's really easy to lose 1-2 players, which is then really easy to snowball. The big guys just do so much damage and you can't get htem off of you if you're not a Zerker. I've done my best to block them with the knife, but even on Hard a Scrake or FP will just chew through my armor/HP almost as fast as Hans. I mean, it does make sense that a puny knife isn't going to stop a chainsaw, but it doesn't feel very good gameplay-wise for the game to just steamroll me unless I play the ONE TRUE CLASS.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:22
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If any of you use the CTS mumble, there is a Killing Floor channel that you should join to play with goons.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:28
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According to the datamined spreadsheet that may or may not be correct, Hans' health scales linearly at a rate of around 6000 health per additional player, if I recall correctly. Might be 5000 and change. I think the reason the health increase is notable is because the extra people aren't necessarily pulling their weight. That's not to say they're bad, but I think the optimal strategy is still 5 people, ideally Supports, with AA12s and a medic.
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Sep 9, 2015 00:48
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LuciferMorningstar posted:According to the datamined spreadsheet that may or may not be correct, Hans' health scales linearly at a rate of around 6000 health per additional player, if I recall correctly. Might be 5000 and change. I think the reason the health increase is notable is because the extra people aren't necessarily pulling their weight. That's not to say they're bad, but I think the optimal strategy is still 5 people, ideally Supports, with AA12s and a medic. This is entirely possible, because we usually have 1 person per class. On the other hand, I don't want the ~~~meta~~~ to be "everyone go support on the boss wave" because that's boring. I mean maybe on HOE, I guess? It's not like we can't beat Hans, but that third stage. Eugh. Psion fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 00:51
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I just tried Firebug for the first time and the MICROWAVE GUN   i love it
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Sep 9, 2015 01:16
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Ramsus posted:I agree with this except it takes about one game played and not a wiki guide to realize what guns and perks are good for hans. Also hans taking reduced damage from explosives, having very high melee damage, and tossing gas grenades is a clue that you probably shouldn't go commando, demo, or support. My level 3 demo was sending Hans into his heal/hunt mode the quickest I've ever seen when hitting him with RPG rounds. I mean, maybe my team were playing way better on that one occasion I used it, but that seems unlikely. On Normal though, I'll give you that. e: When will we be able to buy the Zweihander as a DLC add-on? If I have to spend money I'd rather it go to Tripwire than have to buy a game from someone else that I'll never play. Gromit fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 01:35
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I have literally never joined a match in which no one was sharing the Chivalry weapon, so it isn't a real issue unless you are playing solo.
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Sep 9, 2015 01:51
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Man I had imagined the demo pistol as a mini m42 this thing sucks rear end. what the gently caress is this pissy spread shot pop gun. I mean i like it aesthetically and all and it sounds nice but bleb on it imo.
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Sep 9, 2015 04:33
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verbal enema posted:Man I had imagined the demo pistol as a mini m42 Once you're past 5 or so it gets a lot better. Same with the firebug starter.
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Sep 9, 2015 05:01
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verbal enema posted:Man I had imagined the demo pistol as a mini m42 Yeah, it's pretty lame.
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Sep 9, 2015 05:02
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Kazvall posted:Once you're past 5 or so it gets a lot better. Same with the firebug starter. Ramsus posted:Yeah, it's pretty lame. Both of these statements are equally accurate. Demo gets massively better at level 5, the ability to chunk a grenade that goes off on impact does wonders for survivability, it's still rather weak compared to other classes though.
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Sep 9, 2015 05:08
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LuciferMorningstar posted:According to the datamined spreadsheet that may or may not be correct, Hans' health scales linearly at a rate of around 6000 health per additional player, if I recall correctly. Might be 5000 and change. I think the reason the health increase is notable is because the extra people aren't necessarily pulling their weight. That's not to say they're bad, but I think the optimal strategy is still 5 people, ideally Supports, with AA12s and a medic. I've found people not pulling their weight is the biggest problem with Hans. Also, Hans explsoive damage resistance really needs to be removed. I was just in a match where we had two Demos against Hans. They should've been effective, but thanks to Hans' resistance, they were borderline worthless. The damage from a single RPG rocket isn't even gamebreaking, so why bother with explosive resistance in the first place?
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Sep 9, 2015 05:15
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I lied. On Suicidal, Hans gains around 3500 health per additional player, starting at about 4700 health. On HOE, he gains about 4000 health per player. Of course, you have to consider that you have to grind that much more health down for each phase.
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Sep 9, 2015 05:16
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closeted republican posted:I've found people not pulling their weight is the biggest problem with Hans. Because he's the anti-Patriarch. Give Demo more Nades though.
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Sep 9, 2015 05:17
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Alkydere posted:(Simon Viklund had to do the voices) Off topic but the voice actor for John Wick in Payday 2 is not Simon Viklund and is actually this dude, known for such roles as "Additional Voices" and "Voice". Also supporting the request for the KF1 trader as a playable character in KF2, there's already too many dudes so let's mix it up a bit
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Sep 9, 2015 05:31
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Alkydere posted:Yeah, that's the real problem I have. Right now I play with pubbies and so many teams melt as soon as the big guys show up. Even if they all turn their attention on a Scrake or FP that it's really easy to lose 1-2 players, which is then really easy to snowball. The big guys just do so much damage and you can't get htem off of you if you're not a Zerker. I've done my best to block them with the knife, but even on Hard a Scrake or FP will just chew through my armor/HP almost as fast as Hans. I mean, it does make sense that a puny knife isn't going to stop a chainsaw, but it doesn't feel very good gameplay-wise for the game to just steamroll me unless I play the ONE TRUE CLASS. Its pretty frustrating dying to Hans when his melee combo will ruin anyone without armor or parry, cause if the first hit connects you'll probably wind up with slower movement speed from health loss allowing the follow up hits to murder you if you aren't a zerker or medic.
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Sep 9, 2015 06:12
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Bosses shouldn't have massive resistances to an entire classe's weapons, imo. Why would you want to discourage people from playing their favourite perk for the entire game? I didn't realize that support has been nerfed until I caught up on the forums. It still feels pretty good to me, and seemed downright necessary over the free weekend where new players were continually wiping to Skrakes unless you were either healing them or dishing out AA12 damage. I'm in love with the microwave gun though. Something this fun is bound to be nerfed sooner or later  . I don't know about the firebug perks yet. The ammo one at 5 seems downright necessary to enjoy the class but the ammo per level seems like it will eventually cancel it out, leaving you with no real customization options. I want to have more build choices as I level up, not fewer!Also I love the flame thrower but I only end up using it for one or two rounds because it's so quickly outclassed. Maybe they need to increase the dot so it feels more like a sidegrade Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Sep 9, 2015 |
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Sep 9, 2015 06:17
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frozenpeas posted:I didn't realize that support has been nerfed until I caught up on the forums. It still feels pretty good to me, and seemed downright necessary over the free weekend where new players were continually wiping to Skrakes unless you were either healing them or dishing out AA12 damage. Support was temporarily nerfed much more severely in the beta but feedback led to the ammo reductions being reverted.
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Sep 9, 2015 06:30
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frozenpeas posted:I'm in love with the microwave gun though. Something this fun is bound to be nerfed sooner or later My biggest wish is for a Firebug perk that reduces the weight of Firebug weapons so you could have a Flamethrower + Microwave Gun at the same time. Because I love the heck out of the flamethrower but the Microwave Gun is so cool and good that I can't NOT take it, so at most I end up with the flamethrower for only a wave or two. Heck, if the money lands right and you have the full-ammo perk, you can end up skipping the flamethrower entirely and hopping straight up to microwaves to kill everything with.
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Sep 9, 2015 06:34
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I love the Pulveriser. Every m2 swing is punctuated by a loud vocal HUH or a BUH maybe even a gently caress YOUUUUUU its mostly gently caress YOUUUU i love eveything in this game so far but I'm not a big fan of the ammo pool as opposed to set magazine amount that always ended with 7 total rounds in your weapon left. I loved that :c
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Sep 9, 2015 06:44
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The Microwave Gun and the Boomstick are both weapons that make me laugh in maniac glee when I start using them, which makes them the best weapons in the game.
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Sep 9, 2015 12:07
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The haunted mansion custom map needs to become official. Also please make doors not break forever. We had a good strategy of welding them up so everyone could recover and take out manageable batches of them last night and running into the fray with a microwave gun was one of the best experiences yet.
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Sep 9, 2015 13:59
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