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Alain Post posted:Also, you know, the fact that it doesn't seem to be in the game. Well, people are taking Mission 51 as canon despite ti not being in the game either.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:20
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we are diamond dogs
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Sep 13, 2015 05:20
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ImpAtom posted:Well, people are taking Mission 51 as canon despite ti not being in the game either. The credits timeline mentions Eli making a "Kingdom of the Flies" in 1984 with no other context, so it's probably canon in broad strokes.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:21
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:Was that dude actually involved in any way with the game or its development to begin with? I thought it was just some random crazy fan. Kojima fans are always a great source of absolute insanity, if nothing else. I like to believe that Kojima himself was purposefully trolling people, like when he posted that action figure of Venom holding his hand in front of his face like Gray Fox after that incredibly stupid "Venom is actually Gray Fox" rumor picked up momentum. I think people weren't sure but come on no official guy would be using the word ruse and melting down on twitter. There's no way he's apart of Konami in any way.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:23
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lol dude whatever, believe whatever you want. Literally every single person in this thread is wrong except you, I guess. You alone have the power to infer the true meaning of video games. Once again, those quotes don't say anything about disarmament. Big Boss calls that "a perfectly logical system" because it is his system. It is literally what he is doing. It is a description of his actual actions in the game. You are an idiot. The game could not be more clear if Big Boss stepped out the television and shouted it into your slack-jawed face. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, if a brick wall communicated at a second grade reading level. You are inventing contexts out of whole cloth and misinterpreting the major themes of almost every single MGS game. Please slither back into GBS or whatever terrible hole you came from. I feel dumb for even engaging with you, and I should have ignored you from the start like everyone else in this thread. Now I know better. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 05:26
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The Radix posted:so what im taking from this is that the ARG is now to achieve nuclear disarmament, then kojima will give us chapter 3 This would be pretty amazing, making the entire fanbase across the world work towards 'nuclear disarmament', a powerful theme throughout the series. With the way the rules are set up, only the very heroic even have a crack at loving with nuke-havers, requiring them to take it upon themselves to 'save the world.'
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Sep 13, 2015 05:26
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Full Battle Rattle posted:This would be pretty amazing, making the entire fanbase across the world work towards 'nuclear disarmament', a powerful theme throughout the series. With the way the rules are set up, only the very heroic even have a crack at loving with nuke-havers, requiring them to take it upon themselves to 'save the world.' Look all I know is that I'll be building myself a Nuke anyways eventually because there's a Trophy for it. After everyone else loses their own nukes I'll still have mine and conquer the loving world with the fear it brings. Look on my nuke, ye Mighty, and despair.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:29
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I honestly would not be surprised if it really did unlock something even if it's just that cutscene, considering with PT he wanted the internet to take weeks to figure out the ending, and was disappointed when people figured it out in a day, I was wondering why something similar would be missing from MGS5
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Sep 13, 2015 05:29
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Diamond Dogs destroyed all the nukes in the world...in 1984. In 1985, the world built more nukes because the Cold War is still on and a militia in bumfuck east Africa isn't going to change that.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:32
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Well that disarmament poo poo is never going to happen on PC because hackers will want to hold onto their nukes to have every possible edge.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:33
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is there a plot reason why you can't nuke heroes
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Sep 13, 2015 05:34
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Raxivace posted:Look all I know is that I'll be building myself a Nuke anyways eventually because there's a Trophy for it. After everyone else loses their own nukes I'll still have mine and conquer the loving world with the fear it brings. And people were saying this game didn't show Big Boss descend into madness
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Sep 13, 2015 05:34
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ZenVulgarity posted:is there a plot reason why you can't nuke heroes Nukes are for deterrence, not as an offensive weapon.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:34
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Yea, That cutscene is in the game, and theres more we haven't found apparently https://twitter.com/popcicle/status/642887363677454337 Actual Konami Person
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Sep 13, 2015 05:35
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Alain Post posted:Nukes are for deterrence, not as an offensive weapon. I'm talking about heroes who raid your base That's not offensive, that's nuking some shitheel snatching my stuff while I sleep
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Sep 13, 2015 05:36
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VarXX posted:Yea, That cutscene is in the game, and theres more we haven't found apparently It's not over yet, Snake. Not by a long shot.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:36
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Funky Valentine posted:It's not over yet, Snake. Not by a long shot. You're going to extract him?
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Sep 13, 2015 05:37
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I like how they set up destroying every single nuke in the world, and then the real Big Boss ends up being the one who brings them back into the world. Venom ends up being a better BB than the real Big Boss. edit: Also you can just see Peeler getting more and more frustrated with all the people trying to drag out the conspiracy stuff or speculating that there's something else coming to "finish" the game. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 05:38
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I like how they set up destroying every single nuke in the world, and then the real Big Boss ends up being the one who brings them back into the world. Venom ends up being a better BB than the real Big Boss. Yeah, that's a nice bit of irony. Reminds me a lot of Akira Kurosawa's Kagemusha.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:40
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:lol dude whatever, believe whatever you want. Literally every single person in this thread is wrong except you, I guess. You alone have the power to infer the true meaning of video games. Once again, those quotes don't say anything about disarmament. Big Boss calls that "a perfectly logical system" because it is his system. It is literally what he is doing. It is a description of his actual actions in the game. You are an idiot. I agree with Digiwizzard's interpretation, actually.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:49
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Discendo Vox posted:I agree with Digiwizzard's interpretation, actually. That's totally fine. Mostly I am tired of arguing about interpretations of a video game that involve obsessive wikipedean "citations" and extreme pedantry / smugness. Everyone else manages to have discussions without being completely insufferable, so I'm just gonna go ahead and put the annoying dude on ignore and continue to read cool opinions and arguments from everyone else because I was getting dangerously close to getting mad at a video game thread on the internet.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:55
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I kind of think the disarmament stuff might be in there as some kind of meta game with how nukes work in game, seeing it pop up what looked like Steam usernames at the end makes me think that might be the case. I could see it maybe as something that isn't surfaced directly or might be reliant on the online stuff going live, it'd be kind of cool if that's in there to incentivize people to invade FOBs with nukes though. I don't think there's some vast conspiracy of stuff waiting to be revealed (though man, I hope they do something more with this game) but given the tons of cut content and left overs I bet there'll be all sorts of stuff that surfaces from people messing with the PC version.
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Sep 13, 2015 05:56
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I think the idea that it's linked to some FOB event we haven't seen yet is at least plausible. Maybe a certain number of players have to create nukes first, or maybe you just have to disarm a bunch of them. There are people playing a ton of PvP already, but there aren't a whole lot of people (on PS4, anyway) that have nukes. The fact that people's names are scrolling at the end makes that seem likely, at least. On the other hand, that cutscene didn't seem 100% complete, either. It sounds like the vocal track is pretty raw, and unless it's just meant to be a voice over (which is definitely possible), Miller's lips aren't moving when he talks.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:04
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Discendo Vox posted:I agree with Digiwizzard's interpretation, actually.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:06
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I don't really like any overly specific reading of the Boss's vision of the world- dramatically, it makes more sense that her high-level statement of making the world one remains vague so it can get interpreted differently by the various protagonists later in the timeline. But it's a good read.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:07
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Discendo Vox posted:I agree with Digiwizzard's interpretation, actually. Same. In the context of our reality Big Boss is a loving monster hands-down. In the context of the game's reality where people and parasites can control your mind and poo poo like skullface and the cobra unit exist I would be joining up with Diamond Dogs in a jiffy. It's why the game feels so tonally disconnected. Yeah, BB is a war-loving monster but the alternative is literal hell. Kojima's trying to have his cake and eat it too. It's hard for me to see BB as a monster when the worst thing I've done so far is accidentally tell a super soldier sniper to blow a kids head off with a anti-materiel rifle because I forgot to give her the tranq gun before hand. Meanwhile, vagina bombs, entombing your wife in AI's, etc. BB wins by default because he is wholly human. No superpowers other than plot armor. Realistically speaking he's no different then you or me. Red Mundus fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 06:10
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well less "agree" and more "it's not wrong but it is also a fictional plot where things are contradictory" plus quoting things from mg2 and stuff as a means to prove canon is funny when hideo says he wants to retcon a bunch of it to fit in his vision for the series, whatever the gently caress that is at this point
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Sep 13, 2015 06:10
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e: gently caress
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Sep 13, 2015 06:11
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It honestly explains a lot to me that people are literally unable to grasp the idea that there can be stories where a guy fighting the bad guys isn't a good guy.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:12
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ImpAtom posted:It honestly explains a lot to me that people are literally unable to grasp the idea that there can be stories where a guy fighting the bad guys isn't a good guy. i don't think charging in going "well actually everyone is bad" is nearly as meaningful as you think it is
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Sep 13, 2015 06:16
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ImpAtom posted:It honestly explains a lot to me that people are literally unable to grasp the idea that there can be stories where a guy fighting the bad guys isn't a good guy. Gamers in general break out in a cold sweat whenever one of their power fantasies gets a few blips of ambiguity. Just look at Spec Ops: The Line!
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Sep 13, 2015 06:17
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Spec Ops The Line blows.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:18
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Fargin Icehole posted:gently caress, gently caress, FUCCCK
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Sep 13, 2015 06:20
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Alain Post posted:Spec Ops The Line blows. it was at least better about creating a villain protagonist
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Sep 13, 2015 06:21
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It completely failed to understand how games work on a structural level, but I don't really want to talk about bad games, just good games like Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:22
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Boss why were you eblow deep in paz ? because there was second bomb in
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Sep 13, 2015 06:23
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Tiler Kiwi posted:well less "agree" and more "it's not wrong but it is also a fictional plot where things are contradictory" I agree that there's a lot of contradictory information in the games, and tbh I didn't even disagree with everything he was saying - more the way he tried to be a condescending dick about it. And then admittedly I did the same thing in response, so that was my bad. I think the dissonance between ideals and reality is one of the major aspects of the game. The Boss' will gets treated as this sort of almost mythological answer to the problems of the nuclear age, and all of her "children" become obsessed with their own interpretations of it. Specifically, they can't let go of the idea of a united world, but none of them really grasp her intentions of achieving it. The tragedy of MGS is that her will - which was never really anything more than a vain hope anyway (it's similar, in some ways, to how the Fury saw the world from space) ends up getting twisted by everyone that was close to her, and plunges the world into the exact kind of chaos she was fighting against. Big Boss comes closer than Zero because he understands that ultimately she valued free will over everything else. Zero thinks that her vision could only be achieved if there was no individuality whatsoever - the AIs he creates further corrupt this and create the SOP system / war economy. The problem with all of the Patriots is that they can't bring themselves to stop fighting. Regardless of the cause, they all rely on conflict. Zero lives on after death as a twisted phantom of his ideals in the AIs, and Big Boss creates a literal phantom to aid him in his goal of creating a nation for soldiers. The world of MGS4 is basically a fever-dream mashup of their interpretations - war has become truly global (remember that MG1 / 2 "retcon" real life and create a world where the Cold War has thawed and there are no more nukes, ushering in an age of relative peace where the only true concern is oil), and in a way the world is united ("united" is kind of a loaded word to begin with - most people automatically assign it positive connotations when that isn't necessarily the case) - everyone is fighting everyone else in a series of endless proxy wars, but at the same time the AIs are pulling the strings, creating the reasons for those conflicts and controlling the battlefield. It's a war where soldiers are always needed and always have a place, but they are never anything more than tools. Big Boss' dream is, in some ways, pretty selfish. He has some noble goals, and he does some things that are undeniably "good" for mankind, but the games are still saying that everyone who engages in violence is permanently stained by it. A lot of people aren't able to parse the idea that nobody in the game is blameless or pure, for some reason. It doesn't work that way in real life, either. There are plenty of interpretations that can be drawn from the games because, as you said, they don't always line up in a perfect row, philosophically. Part of the MGS games has always been about the way that people romanticize war and lionize warriors while also being horrified by what it creates - it's the reason Kojima can sperg for days about the tiniest firearm details while also being disgusted by the concept of war and nuclear proliferation on a baser level. I think the game argues that that push and pull exists in everyone, and much of the chaos created in the games comes notably from trying to interpret and carry out someone else's second-hand ideals instead of forging their own paths. Which is ultimately what Big Boss is telling Snake to do in MGS4 - to stop fighting and just live, which is something he could never do. Grizzled Patriarch fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 06:27
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VarXX posted:Yea, That cutscene is in the game, and theres more we haven't found apparently It would not surprise me if there's content most of us haven't discovered yet. I'm sure it isn't much (like a different ending or whatever), but there must be more that ties in with FOB missions and possibly MGO. Has anyone here 100% TPP? There's more than likely not going to be any new chapter DLC, but I wonder if Konami would have actually preferred that? It was kind of already done with GZ. Perhaps if the rest of the game was released in installments, Kojima might have had more time to flesh out each chapter. I imagine paying separately for each installment would add up to more than a full game, benefiting Konami. Granted, it would have pissed off a lot of fans, but not as much as firing their best game designer and pushing out an unfinished product. The little chapter 2 preview thing was also very out of place, not to mention it pretty much spoiled all of chapter 2's cutscenes. It seems like it would be more appropriate as a review of the previous chapter before the next, making me believe there definitely was a chapter 3 that got cut.
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Sep 13, 2015 06:29
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Tiler Kiwi posted:i don't think charging in going "well actually everyone is bad" is nearly as meaningful as you think it is No, but the honest truth is that it's kind of meaningful here. The argument basically boils down to "Big Boss/Venom Snake isn't amoral/evil enough." It's basically claiming that a character can't be a bad person unless they are... well, Skull Face who is effectively a cackling cartoon character. Unless a character has gone all the way down the bloody demon horn path they're inherently a good person even if they're running a for-profit mercenary company that performs wetwork operations. It gets lampshaded with "well, Big Boss saves puppies and removes landmines" as if doing minor good acts adds +10 to your Light Side meter or whatever. Edit: I should also note that me saying this is not the same as me saying "MGSV (or MGS in general) is a well-written plot." ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 06:31
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ImpAtom posted:No, but the honest truth is that it's kind of meaningful here. Well considering the 'evil' guy disarmed the world's supply of nukes so the future could have a chance without worrying about everyone's poo poo getting blow'd up, your "nuh huh Big Boss is the bad guy" argument went from weak to european extreme weak. Hell, not only did we not get a 'Big Boss goes from just a PMC owner to full on supervillain", Venom Snake is a god drat saint disarming the world not so he can have the only nukes, but for some world peace bullshit.
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