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Away all Goats posted:I finally gave demolitionist try tonight and...how the gently caress do people play this class. Demo really shines once you hit 5 and your grenades detonate on impact with a Zed. Well, maybe it starts to glimmer. Shine is too strong of a word. Demo definitely needs work. Kazvall posted:Zerk really isn't that OP. I'd say the real thing going for them is the ability to block and parry which other classes simply don't take because of weight. They went from useless perks to some decent playstyle choices. Yeah, I'll agree that Zerk isn't OP. Strong as gently caress, yes, but you still need to know what you're doing and not overly strong to reach the point of "OP" in a cooperative game where the RPG, microwave gun and the medic weapons exist as shiny toys to pull people away. The real problem is that apparently Tripwire decided that their core abilities, block and parry, should be required by everybody. Nobody else blocks and parries besides the upcoming samurai/ninja/whatever class. So now you either have a good zerk or two, and are lucky that Hans/Scrakes/FPs home in on them or else the entire time gets flattened into the floor. It's very much a binary feeling of "this is survivable and fun" to "Oh, hey, someone turned off the fun and now we're all dead".
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Sep 13, 2015 14:47
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A Zerk that can parry consistently is like a Commando who can put down headshots all the time, the class isn't overpowered, it is just the player who is competent. I think Demo could use a +reload speed base perk improvement like Firebug has, even though Firebug is the class that has the least use for it when using weapons other than the Trenchgun.
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Sep 13, 2015 15:00
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ZearothK posted:A Zerk that can parry consistently is like a Commando who can put down headshots all the time. Speaking of, is there any talk of the Sharpshooter coming back, or is it now just going to be "play a more conservative Commando" now? ZearothK posted:I think Demo could use a +reload speed base perk improvement like Firebug has, even though Firebug is the class that has the least use for it when using weapons other than the Trenchgun. Same with Support, or maybe the ol' quicker weapon switch. Making the combat shotgun equippable with the AA12 would also be a huge boon (that is, without using the perk, but for now at least it's possible). Basically, I want my One True Class to be useful again at the boss fight.
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Sep 13, 2015 15:14
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Zomborgon posted:Speaking of, is there any talk of the Sharpshooter coming back, or is it now just going to be "play a more conservative Commando" now? Yeah, Sharpshooter has been confirmed as one the planned perks, along with Gunslinger, Martial Artist (the Katana perk) and SWAT.
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Sep 13, 2015 15:24
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Zomborgon posted:Basically, I want my One True Class to be useful again at the boss fight. Support's still incredibly useful against Hans. The AA12 still makes his HP melt incredibly fast...until Hans turns around and rips your face off at least. 
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Sep 13, 2015 15:40
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QwertySanchez posted:I've never really liked the way the AA12 looked, before I knew it was a real gun and I saw one in a game I thought it was just some placeholder model or something, it's just a flat, black rectangle with a magazine sticking out of it. I know that It's a perfectly practical design that gets the job done as efficiently as possible. Which is why I think it has no place in KF2. We need some enormous thing with multiple barrels that spin and a shark face painted on it. A laser sight that points right into the player's eyes and an alt fire that reduces the whole gun to shrapnel launched in the direction of the zeds leaving the player holding a smoking handle. You might not like the way it looks but you can submerge it in water for 24 hours (or mud) and pull it out and fire an entire magazine out with no jams... function over style Sanchez...
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Sep 13, 2015 16:03
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The +explosives ammo stat for demos should be higher and also apply to their grenades. Or just straight up give them more grenades to begin with. Also the RPG is too heavy (even reducing it by 1 would help) and the M79 is too weak and has WAY too many duds. I got 5 in a row last night while staring down a huge horde. And of course the HX25 is a piece of trash. But you can make do with it, just not on HOE early waves.
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Sep 13, 2015 16:13
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Darkpriest667 posted:You might not like the way it looks but you can submerge it in water for 24 hours (or mud) and pull it out and fire an entire magazine out with no jams... function over style Sanchez... Yeah but the AK-47 does the same and looks rugged and badass!
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Sep 13, 2015 16:16
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The amount of CS:GO gun reskin trash already on the workshop is... unfortunate. Look at some of this gaudy rubbish!     These ones are just funny, though.   (Also, Berzerker isn't OP, other classes are underpowered and probably need buffs.) vv Touché. brocretin fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 16:28
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brocretin posted:The amount of CS:GO gun reskin trash already on the workshop is... unfortunate. 
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Sep 13, 2015 17:11
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I don't know, I really want a yellow AA-12.
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Sep 13, 2015 17:45
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I like playing Demo because their limited ammo and questionably effective T1 give me an excuse to pick up dual 9mms and pretend Gunslinger is in.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:04
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toasterwarrior posted:Yeah but the AK-47 does the same and looks rugged and badass! actually the AK47 is known to be a stolen design from the MP 44 side by side they're almost identical
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Sep 13, 2015 18:24
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Opposing Farce posted:I like playing Demo because their limited ammo and questionably effective T1 give me an excuse to pick up dual 9mms and pretend Gunslinger is in. I thought that's what the Commando's rank 5 perk is for?
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Sep 13, 2015 18:41
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My big problem with support right now is that they don't seem to have anything that recommends them from a class bonus perspective. They gain experience pretty slowly compared to other classes who can pour out damage faster due to not being stuck with a restrictive ammo pool (same problem with demolitions, although they have more problems than just that) and they just plain seem to do a lot less damage than they did in the first game. If I get a husk in the head/upper torso with a coach gun blast on hard, that should be a dead husk. Instead what I get is a faceful of fire. In practice, the thing that happens is that everyone buys AA12s off-perk for Hans and a team of medics / berserkers / commandos does the exact same job as the support while also not feeling hobbled by all the class' current drawbacks.
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Sep 13, 2015 18:50
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Typical Pubbie posted:I thought that's what the Commando's rank 5 perk is for? Backup would probably be a good level 5 perk for Demolitionist instead of Commando. Get rid of grenade supplier and just give the grenade back to Supports. Commando can get... oh whatever, it's up against Large Mags and who's gonna not take Large Mags.
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Sep 13, 2015 19:00
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Also the RPG is too heavy (even reducing it by 1 would help) and the M79 is too weak and has WAY too many duds. I got 5 in a row last night while staring down a huge horde.
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Sep 13, 2015 19:30
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Flipswitch posted:I might be missing something but having dud grenades seems like a bit of a lovely system. It sounds like one of those ideas that's cool on paper but just becomes frustrating as a result. It's not a random chance, it's a minimum range. Both the M79 and the RPG will not explode if they hits a target too close to the shooter, though at least the RPG still does a fairly respectable impact damage if it hits an enemy directyl.
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Sep 13, 2015 19:37
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ClonedPickle posted:Backup would probably be a good level 5 perk for Demolitionist instead of Commando. Get rid of grenade supplier and just give the grenade back to Supports. Commando can get... oh whatever, it's up against Large Mags and who's gonna not take Large Mags. backup lets me blitz the scar so just keep it on commando thanks
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Sep 13, 2015 20:00
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Flipswitch posted:I might be missing something but having dud grenades seems like a bit of a lovely system. It sounds like one of those ideas that's cool on paper but just becomes frustrating as a result. Perestroika posted:It's not a random chance, it's a minimum range. Both the M79 and the RPG will not explode if they hits a target too close to the shooter, though at least the RPG still does a fairly respectable impact damage if it hits an enemy directyl. Yeah, it's this. If you're trying to kill something right in your face either throw a grenade at them or aim at the floor behind them and jump immediately before firing to maximize distance to the impact site. Incidentally, I also agree that demo really feels hamstrung without the grenades-explode-on-contact perk, it may as well be baseline. President Ark fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Sep 13, 2015 |
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Sep 13, 2015 20:18
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Perestroika posted:It's not a random chance, it's a minimum range. Both the M79 and the RPG will not explode if they hits a target too close to the shooter, though at least the RPG still does a fairly respectable impact damage if it hits an enemy directyl. President Ark posted:Yeah, it's this. If you're trying to kill something right in your face either throw a grenade at them or aim at the floor behind them and jump immediately before firing to maximize distance to the impact site.
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Sep 13, 2015 20:39
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Away all Goats posted:I finally gave demolitionist try tonight and...how the gently caress do people play this class. If there's one perk that you "cheat" to level 25, let it be Demo. Between the extra ammo and the nuke Zed Time skill, Demo becomes massively more useful at 25. The Grenade Pistol remains bad, so play a Zerk for a round or three to build up cash, then switch over. C4/RPG is the way to go. Hang out behind the rest of the team and shoot large clumps of enemies while also triggering a nuke basically every Zed Time. The radiation absolutely annihilates all enemies in seconds, even Scrakes and Pounds. C4 especially requires the extra ammo you get from leveling up. When you need more C4, just sell your old unit and buy a new one. The cost for a whole new set of C4 ends up being less than $200, so don't be shy with it.
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Sep 13, 2015 21:43
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Alteisen posted:Its real rough for a zerk on without a good medic, even with all the changes to them, they're real strong now but on 6 man HoE they'll get decimated as easily as anyone else. Can't kite backwards and whack a fleshpound in the face to death like KF1? Zerker is GARBAGE! Able to kite backwards and whack a fleshpound in the face to death like KF1? OP Please Nerf. Video games. (Yes I know there are small mechanical differences in the process, it still boils down to kite whack a mole) ClonedPickle posted:Backup would probably be a good level 5 perk for Demolitionist instead of Commando. Get rid of grenade supplier and just give the grenade back to Supports. Commando can get... oh whatever, it's up against Large Mags and who's gonna not take Large Mags. Ruggington posted:backup lets me blitz the scar so just keep it on commando thanks There is going to be so much screaming if, like every other class so far, the Sharp doesn't get their passive and talent bonuses applied to their 9mm. (Commando needs a talent for that, and it still doesn't count for stalker bonus experience) Even if they don't get applied to the Gunslinger either, there will be more people screaming about no 9mm headshot multipliers for their EZ trash clear.
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Sep 13, 2015 22:40
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In KF1, Demo could carry up to 11 grenades and use them to spare ammo by creating combos with his primaries to take out big tough Zeds. In KF2, Demo can only carry a total of 5, which cannot be used in concert with his other weapons and do negligible damage on big Zeds. Also, he can only carry one primary weapon at a time and C4, if used, has to be micromanaged. I played a bit of KF1 Demo last night and Oh man, the difference is night and day. Just the increased explosive resistance, more flexible builds and higher ammo/grenade count (not to mention less of a chance of duds) makes it a much more viable class. And multi shot guns. Berserker style rework, maybe?
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Sep 13, 2015 22:48
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Oh, also, if the skill that made your door welding explosive did more damage/didn't nerf the speed you welded, more people might use it. Similarly, if the one that made you blow up instead of die was a bigger or more damaging explosion, or ignored explosive resistance, or had a random chance to trigger further times after saving you once, more people might use it. Also the stumble/knockdown perk vs. +10% to off perk weapons... Stumbling Scrakes and FPs is too tempting for a measly 10% boost. In the case of all these perks, it's not that they're bad, it's simply they're not good enough to compete with their alternative. Siren resistance, increased damage and stumble power, and increased explosive resistance are just too good to give up as it stands.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:05
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For the demo just get rid of the lovely sturm pistol and give me more grenades to start with, with a higher pool of them.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:07
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C4 should really be immune to Siren screams, they're decent at best already and having such a major glaring weakness as "your trap might not be there because the spawns put a siren that way" is ridiculous.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:35
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gnome7 posted:C4 should really be immune to Siren screams, they're decent at best already and having such a major glaring weakness as "your trap might not be there because the spawns put a siren that way" is ridiculous.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:36
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Get to 15 and sirens won't gently caress your stuff up anymore. 10% offperk shreds with medic weapons. Get used to the spread on the grenade pistol and after level 10 or so you can easily kill 2-3 zeds at a time.
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Sep 13, 2015 23:38
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Section Z posted:There is going to be so much screaming if, like every other class so far, the Sharp doesn't get their passive and talent bonuses applied to their 9mm. (Commando needs a talent for that, and it still doesn't count for stalker bonus experience) Even if they don't get applied to the Gunslinger either, there will be more people screaming about no 9mm headshot multipliers for their EZ trash clear. As a Sharp main in KF1 this is fine because the 9mm is decent against most trash and there's no good reason to not use the knife against everything on Wave 1 and at least part of Wave 2. You don't need Backup to kill everything in the first couple waves (sans Husks) in 1 hit with it. Also, melee bash. Melee bash everything. Edit: My point being even if Sharp doesn't get bonuses to the 9mm there are other options, plus I'm sure by the time Gunslinger comes around it'll be fine to run around with a .44 or Handcannon or whatever that fills the one-headshot-pistol role. Abandoned Toaster fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 00:56
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Abandoned Toaster posted:As a Sharp main in KF1 this is fine because the 9mm is decent against most trash and there's no good reason to not use the knife against everything on Wave 1 and at least part of Wave 2. You don't need Backup to kill everything in the first couple waves (sans Husks) in 1 hit with it. Also, melee bash. Melee bash everything. I admit when I say "people will have a meltdown over X Sharpshooter thing", I'm talking mostly in regards to the pubbie masses who literally post "I can't wait until Sharp comes out so I can one hit kill fleshpounds". Pretty sure that on top not suffering my case of "Aim inversely proportional to how important multiple headshots are", most goons who like sharp could handle the 9mm not being one headshot on Hard+ trash clear for them by default. Back to assumptions about pubbie public, I expect a lot of freak outs if the sharpshooter can't deal better headshot damage with the gunslinger guns than the gunslinger itself.
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Sep 14, 2015 01:03
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Section Z posted:I admit when I say "people will have a meltdown over X Sharpshooter thing", I'm talking mostly in regards to the pubbie masses who literally post "I can't wait until Sharp comes out so I can one hit kill fleshpounds". Frankly, I just want gunslinger ASAP so I can get the magic of carrying 8 pistols once more.
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Sep 14, 2015 01:15
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I want nothing more than to sling guns
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Sep 14, 2015 01:50
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I want the action hero dive of gunslinger more than I actually want to sling guns
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Sep 14, 2015 01:52
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All I want is the lever action. That was my weapon on every wave until Patriarch in KF1. You can get a really good rhythm going: click, aim while it reloads, click, repeat.
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Sep 14, 2015 01:58
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did nobody play berserker before they buffed it? it sucked.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:35
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FirstPersonShitter posted:did nobody play berserker before they buffed it? it sucked. I did, and I agree. He was easily the most underwhelming class save for a few select players.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:42
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FirstPersonShitter posted:did nobody play berserker before they buffed it? it sucked. Im halfway convinced that most of the "oh my god it's so OP now" has nothing to do with it's actual strength, but that now it's got better mid range skill level capability. So all the people who previously said "Zerker is GREAT you just need to get good  " are probably mad at it being more accessibly good, than anything.The same way some people scream that spamming an AA12 or Microwave gun is broken, but think kiting Hans to a door with a roadrunner cartoon amount of explosives is the height of skill and should be rewarded with an instant kill. (They should totally allow full or most of your damage for two C4 though, then skip to garbage damage at 3+. That would at least let two demos not gently caress eachother over trying to use C4 near eachother and encourage high fives with detonators teamwork).
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Sep 14, 2015 02:46
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FirstPersonShitter posted:did nobody play berserker before they buffed it? it sucked. It was actually good, but most people were bad at it. That said... Section Z posted:Im halfway convinced that most of the "oh my god it's so OP now" has nothing to do with it's actual strength, but that now it's got better mid range skill level capability. So all the people who previously said "Zerker is GREAT you just need to get good I'm actually pretty happy with how it is now because it's even more fun to use. I think it's probably a little too good for people who are really good at using it, but if Tripwire is balancing around the "average pubbie," it's probably in a good place. My main objection is that the Zweihander is extremely effective for how cheap it is, and how it consumes no ammo.
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Sep 14, 2015 02:54
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If there's no Lever Action Rifle and Handcannon littering the map from wave 1 that you wreck trash with through to the boss wave, it just ain't Killing Floor.
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Sep 14, 2015 03:40
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