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grassy gnoll posted:Someone give me the basics of running PbP X-wing, please. I'd need Vassal and the relevant module, everyone would submit their moves at the start of the round, but then it'd have to break down into individual actions and shooting for each ship, right? How else would you do it? BattleMaster posted:Mainly, get good and stop being offended that someone has some feeble means of fighting back other than arc dodging better. If a 3 red dice 1 damage cap attack was gamebreaking then arc dodgers would already have been obsolete to the Ion Cannon Turret. This is not a great comparison. The ion turret is 1-2 and TLT is 2-3. Plus the rest of how they work Withholding judgment on TLTs until I play with/against some but I'm still gonna call turret spam weak poo poo in a game about positioning and maneuvering. Balance be damned I'm gonna keep flying jousters as arc dodgers because gently caress you 
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Sep 15, 2015 18:38
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BattleMaster posted:TLT looks fine. It won't one-poo poo any ship in one round ever since it only does 2 damage at most with no crits. It has a range-one doughnut hole that can be exploited. Everywhere it can hit suffers from Autothrusters except front range 2 front. The user doesn't get a second focus token unless they use their crew slot on a Recon Specialist or have one given to them (only Palob or Kyle need apply and lol HWK), and that option isn't even available to the Y-wing. It's basically an uphill battle against high-evade autothrusting arc dodgers (though from their perspective it's terrible because it actually gives the opponent a chance to hit them, god forbid), and it won't really deal with swarms or fat lists very well because of anemic damage output (no chance for a one-volley lucky crit) and high point cost. have you flown arc dodgers agianst quad TLTs or are you just saying things you think sound good?
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Sep 15, 2015 18:53
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I have played a couple of games against lists with 2 TLT Y-Wings, and played a couple of games with 2 of them myself. This didn't quite give me perspective on lists with 4 of them, but I have noticed a few flaws in the arguments. First up, while a 1 agility defender will take 8 damage, a two agility die defender will likely only take 5-6 damage if all 8 attacks were targeted at it. This is assuming that the attacker will only have a single focus or target lock each turn. While still painful, not nearly a doom and gloom scenario. Also, a key point that seems to be missed is that a list with 4 TLTs is really only possible with PS 2 ships. I see this as giving middle PS pilots a nice boost. Being able to knock out a Y-Wing, or reposition into the donut hole will be really nice. And how does the manuvering droids make Y-Wings "unpredictable"? The Y-Wings shouldn't be generating any stress, so the only change in manuver is the scum get to add 3 turns to the possibility. Any higher PS ship with boost shouldn't have much of a problem tucking behind one of the Y-Wings and following it around. Even without boost, simple awareness of where asteroids and other ships that haven't moved yet ought to narrow down the possibilities of where the Y-Wing is going. The gist of my thoughts is that TLTs are going to be pretty easy to deal with when they are in the hands of a weak player. They will be bunched up, and you should be able to focus fire down the Y-Wings faster than he can focus fire you down. Especially since it shouldn't be hard to force them to spread the attacks around. In the hands of a skilled player, the TLT list is going to be hard to overcome. But so is just about any other "good" list.
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Sep 15, 2015 19:40
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Boosting into the range 1 donut of a Y wing with TLT is easy enough except for you've just used your action to do so and now you're left unfocused against the other 3 Y-wings. And even if you'd like to stay behind them next turn, that y wing has three valid options to move and get shots on you: the 3 forward, 3 right and 3 left, which means you will only have a 33% chance of guessing right on your movement to remain in the donut. And then still absorb 6 attacks from the other 3. A good player will have a very hard time with this list even if it's flown by a weak player.
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Sep 15, 2015 20:57
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Well, it's a 33% chance assuming no other relevant factors such as the position of other ships, asteroids, the edge of the play area, etc.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:02
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Is there an active BST thread or forum for X wing stuff? I'm trying to find just the Y-wing stuff out of the Most Wanted expansion. I really don't need the rest of the stuff out of it so I'd like to not buy stuff I don't need.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:20
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Floppychop posted:Is there an active BST thread or forum for X wing stuff? Do you have any rebel Y-Wing cards/equipment? I have 2 scum starter sets so I've probably got some extra scum Y-Wing cards.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:24
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Icon Of Sin posted:Do you have any rebel Y-Wing cards/equipment? I have 2 scum starter sets so I've probably got some extra scum Y-Wing cards. My end goal is 2 more Scum Y-wings, so I was hoping to essentially get the Y-wing model itself, the two dials, pilot cards, and astromechs. Then I'd get a rebel Y-wing expansion and be set. I'm thinking someone out there may have created a bugzapper list with the Z-95's and not needed the Y-wing parts of the expansion.
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Sep 15, 2015 21:38
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If they're really dominating the meta, I can't wait until the next big tournament when the top 4 lists are all quad TLT boats. The most boring finals. 
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Sep 15, 2015 22:09
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Floppychop posted:My end goal is 2 more Scum Y-wings, so I was hoping to essentially get the Y-wing model itself, the two dials, pilot cards, and astromechs. Then I'd get a rebel Y-wing expansion and be set. While that may have been the case before wave 7, I think at this point more are being bought for the Ys than the Zs.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:37
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canyoneer posted:If they're really dominating the meta, I can't wait until the next big tournament when the top 4 lists are all quad TLT boats. The most boring finals. The NOVA open winner used a weird rebel control-ish build that had two TLTs, one on a stressbot Y wing and one on a Moldy Crow HWK, with a B Wing with tactician and two Zs rounding out the list.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:39
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I predict that there's going to be a brief spate of people trying 4x TLT Y-Wing but that as a list it's not going to be universally applicable enough to be some sort of tournament steamroller and the people trying it will eventually move on to something else.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:41
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Irom posted:Boosting into the range 1 donut of a Y wing with TLT is easy enough except for you've just used your action to do so and now you're left unfocused against the other 3 Y-wings. And even if you'd like to stay behind them next turn, that y wing has three valid options to move and get shots on you: the 3 forward, 3 right and 3 left, which means you will only have a 33% chance of guessing right on your movement to remain in the donut. And then still absorb 6 attacks from the other 3. What the gently caress arc dodger are you using that doesn't get more than one action? Seriously, I want to know. Moreover, how are you only running one of them, and why are you keeping them following exactly one Y-wing. I know focusing down a ship is great, but if you're running the typical arc dodgers of the modern game, you've got a massive PS advantage, multiple reposition options, good offense, and you're doing it in a target rich environment where your opponent either has to stay together and risk getting loving murdered if you guess correctly or splitting their ships to maintain good coverage which can result in being forced to split fire. It's like you haven't even played against this list, or did so on a vast, featureless void that featured no other ships than a block of 4 Y-wings and one unupgraded A-wing.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:45
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Geisladisk posted:The worst hit ship is the Decimator. It's practically an auto-lose against 4 TLT lists. Now is the time for Oicunn to shine  ! They can't shoot you if you're bumper-car-ramming them!
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Sep 15, 2015 22:48
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Strobe posted:What the gently caress arc dodger are you using that doesn't get more than one action? Seriously, I want to know. Moreover, how are you only running one of them, and why are you keeping them following exactly one Y-wing. I know focusing down a ship is great, but if you're running the typical arc dodgers of the modern game, you've got a massive PS advantage, multiple reposition options, good offense, and you're doing it in a target rich environment where your opponent either has to stay together and risk getting loving murdered if you guess correctly or splitting their ships to maintain good coverage which can result in being forced to split fire. I think the TLTs are a lot better in the context of a couple in a list with other threats than four where you end up being able to bully the poo poo out of them unless they spread out which makes them a lot less able to focus fire. Miranda and a Y goofing around with TLTs with some other stuff alongside is way more threatening to me than 4x TLTs.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:52
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Speaking of TLTs and arc dodgers, I wonder if this is going to see an uptick in people trying out the Sensor Jammer systems upgrade on, say, a TIE Phantom. Unless you've got some ways of generating extra focus, which 4x Gold Squad/Thug + TLTs don't, then you can only put a focus towards one attack each time.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:53
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So last night I played at the new place. I actually got to play 2.5 games, which is the most X-wing I've played at a time. The first game I ran my "stress level zero" squad, mentioned before, and my opponent fielded 3 "Staplers" as he called them (Houndstooths). I was getting smashed pretty bad, and decided my new goal was to take out one of those things with me. I did managed to destroy one, and get rid of the shields on another, but then flew my e-wing away and lost. I think if I still had the E-wing I would have had a fair chance at taking out the second, though I doubt I could have won. The second game I switched to imperials, using a swarm: Black Squadron TIES Targeting computer (because it's hilarious, and I think strangely effective) x2 Saber Squadron TIE Interceptor Storm Squadron TIE Advanced (With TIe/x1 title and advanced targeting computers). I was against a shuttle (with palpy on it) and two phantoms. I tried to go after the shuffle, knowing I was going to have a hard time outmaneuvering the cloaking on the phantoms (though I did manage to get a hit on one while it was cloaked somehow), but I just ended up getting flanked and destroyed. The final game of the night was a four-way ("furball") battle. This was 50 points, so I did a smaller version of the tie swarm, the two targeting ties with a cheaper interceptor. One opponent had a K-wing, another with I think a E and B, and I don't remember what the last was. We ran out of time since the store was closing. People were surprised at my use of targeting ties, and mad a bunch of jokes about the dumb tie fighter pilots not knowing how to use a targeting computer. I had a good time, and I'll probably go back.
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Sep 15, 2015 22:57
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Panzeh posted:I think the TLTs are a lot better in the context of a couple in a list with other threats than four where you end up being able to bully the poo poo out of them unless they spread out which makes them a lot less able to focus fire. Miranda and a Y goofing around with TLTs with some other stuff alongside is way more threatening to me than 4x TLTs. It depends a whole lot on what Miranda is running, but yeah. The lists that I typically run won't actually be changing a whole lot in terms of build against the 4x TLT option, simply because the 4x TLT option has eight or nine different ways to gently caress it up real hard even without repositions and arc dodging. Playing really aggressively, especially with high PS ships, translates pretty easily to range 1 against Y-wings, and that Y-wing player better be hot poo poo or you won't be leaving range 1 until something is dead.
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Sep 15, 2015 23:01
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Kai Tave posted:Speaking of TLTs and arc dodgers, I wonder if this is going to see an uptick in people trying out the Sensor Jammer systems upgrade on, say, a TIE Phantom. Unless you've got some ways of generating extra focus, which 4x Gold Squad/Thug + TLTs don't, then you can only put a focus towards one attack each time. Agromech fits perfectly on the list. Spend focus on first attack, gives target lock for second attack.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:05
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Lunatic Pathos posted:Agromech fits perfectly on the list. Spend focus on first attack, gives target lock for second attack. A Syndicate Thug with both TLT and an R4 Agromech is 26 points which means you can't run four of'em kitted out like that. The absolute most you can fit into a 4x TLT wishbone list is two. edit; and anyway it wouldn't matter, because the Sensor Jammer explicitly forbids you from rerolling the die you modified which makes the target lock useless at overcoming it. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 00:10
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Kai Tave posted:A Syndicate Thug with both TLT and an R4 Agromech is 26 points which means you can't run four of'em kitted out like that. The absolute most you can fit into a 4x TLT wishbone list is two. You are right. Getting the lists I played against mixed up. Played 4 TLT and 2 TLT list on Saturday. Won against 2, lost against 4. Could have won against 4 if I had maneuvered better. Was flying Soontir, Turr, and a Vader shuttle.
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Sep 16, 2015 00:42
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Strobe posted:What the gently caress arc dodger are you using that doesn't get more than one action? Seriously, I want to know. Moreover, how are you only running one of them, and why are you keeping them following exactly one Y-wing. I know focusing down a ship is great, but if you're running the typical arc dodgers of the modern game, you've got a massive PS advantage, multiple reposition options, good offense, and you're doing it in a target rich environment where your opponent either has to stay together and risk getting loving murdered if you guess correctly or splitting their ships to maintain good coverage which can result in being forced to split fire. I played against it with my Guri list and absolutely ate my dick, even with the occasional free focus. I will be very interested to see a highly skilled pilot fly an arc dodging list run against it. I feel like a win would be a long shot. Are you guys beating this list regularly or something? How many times have you flown against it? results?
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Sep 16, 2015 01:03
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It was a really popular list for the week or two after Gencon (for those who went) and the first couple weeks after Wave 7 hit stores. I've probably played... six or eight games against it? Plus another five or six against lists using it as the second half of a big ship/escorts list. The first couple times it wrecked my poo poo, sure enough, flying my typical XXX list. It's a pretty typical five or six damage against X-wings, assuming all four get to shoot at one. The last couple games with the XXX list were bloodbaths in the exact opposite direction. High pilot skill and offense wrecks Y-wings' faces. My typical strategy is to do a 2 speed maneuver first turn and see how eager my opponent is to get in range, and tailor the next maneuver to end up spread around the bubble either just outside range 3 (if they're less aggressive), or with the Y-wings forced to split fire due to range limits (if they're more aggressive). Next turn, two speed maneuver toward one Y-wing, which will typically either A) bump, and ensure I don't overshoot or B) end up in range one of the Y-wings. Under Wes/Wedge/Luke's guns, one Y-wing dies in on round of firing, on average in the above situation. 13 red dice with focus is absolutely capable of murdering one before it shoots. Then it's 3 TLTs, which may or may not be in range to fire, and which may or may not be able to concentrate fire. The Y-wing formation either splits up and my X-wings (I may very well have lost one by this point) pick one and hunt it down, or stay in formation and I get a really nice repeat performance. It's the first turn that decides the game, in most situations, with whether the Y-wings manage to get a full barrage on one target or don't. It's pretty easy to keep them from getting it. I recently switched to a X/X/Hawk list with the new T-70s (Poe, Red Vet, Kyle), and the T-70's reposition options, especially with BB-8, make getting to range one against TLTs beyond easy, and they still keep some serious firepower with Kyle. With the typical 2-skill Y-wing pilots, that's still enough to kill one before it fires, and the above happens again. Just last night I ran against the 6 PS YV pilot and two TLT/unhinged Y-wings. One Y-wing died when I appeared suddenly and abruptly in its face with two X-wings at point blank range, and the other did one damage to Poe before I hunted it down with extreme prejudice by the same two Xs. A poor judgment on actions (didn't take a focus on Poe early and he got HLC'd out of existence) meant I lost the game by a hairsbreadth, but the Y-wings were barely better than useless.
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Sep 16, 2015 01:18
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1-2 TLT Y's isn't a big deal, I've done fine against that before 3-4 gets hairy, especially if you're not able to get 8 damage through on one Y in the first turn, which may not always be possible. Would love to see a Vassal log of a XXX overpowering thug life.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:48
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grassy gnoll posted:Someone give me the basics of running PbP X-wing, please. I'd need Vassal and the relevant module, everyone would submit their moves at the start of the round, but then it'd have to break down into individual actions and shooting for each ship, right? Clearly this needs to be a 400 points a side throw down.
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Sep 16, 2015 02:54
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Kath and her gang of crooks tore up a 2x TIE Punisher/1x TIE Bomber squad. I like the Zs but they feel anemic at time, but they do some serious work in groups against the 1 evade. One of them got taken out turn two by an Advanced Homing Missile that caused a through-shield Direct Hit but them's the breaks; at least he didn't have assault missiles. Kath had a Conner Net dropped on her and the lack of action to focus kind of sucked, but she still was able to reciprocate with a 5 die tailgun shot on the Punisher and was back in the action after that. I want to try this list: Wes Janson - Veteran Instincts, R2 Astromech, Integrated Astromech (31 points) Wedge Antilles - Opportunist, R2 Astromech, Integrated Astromech (34 points) Horton Salm - Twin Laser Turret, R2-D6, Marksmanship (35 points) Total: 100 points I don't have an initiative bid but I ~Fly Casual~ anyway. The R2 Astromech doesn't really do a huge amount for Wes other than eating a hit for him, but I'll take it for 1 point.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:09
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Horton doesn't really need Marksmanship. Yeah, you'll get three hits almost every single time, but... so what? You'll never do more than one damage, you already get effectively a free TL on the shot, and you waste the crit. If anything, I'd say go for the unconventional route and take Wired, then stress yourself with a 4 straight to start the game. (effective) Target lock on every single shot you take all game, and all you miss out on are k-turns and hard 3s, which are non-essential a TLT anyway.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:17
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Strobe posted:Horton doesn't really need Marksmanship. Yeah, you'll get three hits almost every single time, but... so what? You'll never do more than one damage, you already get effectively a free TL on the shot, and you waste the crit. If anything, I'd say go for the unconventional route and take Wired, then stress yourself with a 4 straight to start the game. (effective) Target lock on every single shot you take all game, and all you miss out on are k-turns and hard 3s, which are non-essential a TLT anyway. You're right that Marksmanship isn't very good, but a double-tap is the one viable use case for it and I wanted to give it a try, and it's not as if Horton will get much use out of a defensive Focus or a Target Lock. I'll consider switching it out for something more interesting, but I'm not sure if I want to go with Wired. Edit: If I was getting serious I'd probably drop Wes' R2 and drop Horton's elite talent for something cheaper including Wired, or ditch it for another Astromech so I have a bid though, but in a casual game I think that Horton set up with Marksmanship is enough of an oh poo poo bubble that I can funnel people with it or even keep them off Wes and Wedge because they want to wipe him out first BattleMaster fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Sep 16, 2015 |
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Sep 16, 2015 04:33
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It's not a 'real' target lock, but Wired lets you reroll any of the focuses on the TLT shot, so you're rerolling all blanks and focuses, which is a target lock in all but name, and you get it on every shot you make. Wired has the added bonus of being only 1 point, so you could go for the initiative bid, or you could give Wedge or Wes BB-8 or the new astromech coming out in the T-70 pack (execute red maneuver -> receive target lock) for hilarious happenings.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:36
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Oh yeah, saving the points for some better Astros on Wedge and Wes might be nice.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:38
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BB-8 on Wedge is really interesting, because a pre-maneuver barrel roll can make it drat near impossible to block him, and you'll be doing greens (just less of them without the R2) anyway to clear his stress after Opportunist.
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Sep 16, 2015 04:39
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My Cardhaus Labor Day sale package arrived today. Falcon, Rebel Aces, Imperial Aces, Slave 1, Tie Advanced, and original core set. Pretty good haul for $110, and I can't wait to get them on the table 
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Sep 16, 2015 07:10
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I have a ship with BB-8 and Push the Limit. Let me make sure that this is legal: Reveal green maneuver Perform free barrel roll from BB-8 Use free barrel roll action to trigger PTL, perform action 1 Get stress. Perform maneuver. Then I remove the stress token because of the changes in the stress rules. Perform action 2. This is 100% legal, right?
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Sep 16, 2015 11:06
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Yup yup, geisladisk
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Sep 16, 2015 11:15
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Since BB-8 says the Barrel Roll is a free action, wouldn't a player not receive stress in the example above? Like, couldn't they do the Barrel roll, do the Target Lock, then Boost before getting stressed, then removing the stress after doing the green move? If you do action after the maneuver, I believe you would get the stress. Maybe it's because I am tired, but that's how I thought the free action would work, Like how Jake Farrell can do the Focus, Barrel Roll, Boost before getting stressed.
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Sep 16, 2015 13:45
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That's exactly what he said. You perform the barrel roll, PtL off it for a boost/TL/whatever else, then you get the stress (from PtL), then you do the maneuver, then you lose the stress and get an additional action in the 'Perform Action' step.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:05
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Actually, in my head, I was thinking you could so all 3 actions before doing the green maneuver for some reason. I forgot you can interrupt PTL and do the actions in whatever order. Like I said, I'm tired...
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Sep 16, 2015 14:07
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Yeah, one of the actions has to be post-move, no matter what. The amount of possible locations that you can reach with Wedge or really anyone with access to PtL and BB-8 is crazy.
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Sep 16, 2015 14:11
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Free barrel roll-> PtL for boost, and change heading with a 1-bank turn-> stress-> green maneuver-> target lock->  That's pretty disgusting. You could do that with a T-70 for cheaper than with Wedge (native boost, instead of tacking it on) and a straight 3 green (longest green move a T-65 gets is a straight 2) to have a large fan of potential ending spots.
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Sep 16, 2015 15:11
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Nephzinho posted:Clearly this needs to be a 400 points a side throw down. I normally ask that people buy me dinner before they fist me, y'know. How bad of gimmick idea is 5x Alpha with Autothrusters? My friend keeps buying interceptors and I keep trying to think of things to do with them.
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