Forza Motorsport 6

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Forza Motorsport 6

azflyboy: Nov 9, 2005

robotsinmyhead posted:

The AI racers are all over the loving board. I went up a tick on the difficulty cause I was winning by miles, and now I'm still almost winning by miles, but a singular car is cleaning my loving CLOCK - like winning by 10sec over me in 2nd and beating the field by 15-20sec. It's madness. I wish I had a video of the last race cause it looked mindbending.

I think Turn10 has said they're looking into that, but I've noticed the same thing. On one of the endurance races, one of the cars was consistently lapping 2-3 seconds faster than the rest of the field (Apparently "M. Rossi" is back, and still a dick), and I've seen similar behavior in the shorter races as well.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 02:19

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# ? May 28, 2024 20:25

SmokeyXIII: Apr 19, 2008; Not Stephen Harper in Disguise.

That is simply not true.

GutBomb posted:

All assists allowed, I will be forcing the driving line off though.

I humbly request driving line be available. New drivers, new tracks, new braking points... I really don't want to accidentally write someone off.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 02:33

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Forza has always had three AI cars actually rave while everyone else hangs 5 seconds back. Their pack AI is lovely.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 02:50

Ether Frenzy: Dec 22, 2006; Nap Ghost

It's almost like... like the processing power of the system can only handle making 3 cars drive well and the rest are stage-dressing, same as every other video game of every genre ever made.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:06

bloops: Dec 31, 2010; Thanks Ape Pussy!

Pcars actually pulls off pack racing well.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:08

Norns: Nov 21, 2011; Senior Shitposting Strategist

Ether Frenzy posted:

It's almost like... like the processing power of the system can only handle making 3 cars drive well and the rest are stage-dressing, same as every other video game of every genre ever made.

THE POWER Of THE CLOUD

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:13

Ether Frenzy: Dec 22, 2006; Nap Ghost

Leather Bear posted:

Pcars actually pulls off pack racing well.

Too bad it pulls off 60fps really terribly. They made a choice to have 'features' like that, that include Will Stevens contending for the race win instead of only Lewis Hamilton, Nico Rosberg and Sebastian Vettel finishing on the podium over a locked 60fps, and I know which makes for a better racing experience for me.

Norns posted:

THE POWER Of THE CLOUD

Yeah, I think in multiplayer each person's console handles 5 AI cars, so you're likely to get much more talented/smart AI when you're racing in multi.

It's why you can only get 5 cars in there per Real Driver.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:15

Prettypanda: Nov 11, 2008

ChocNitty posted:

Haven't been able to connect to multiplayer since getting the game yesterday afternoon. "Multiplayer is currently unavailable. Please try again later." Anyone else getting it? Or do I have to gently caress with forwarding ports and changing NAT settings to get the game to work properly.

I think I might have found a workaround for you. On your xbox, go to setting > network > advanced network settings > DNS and then set it to googles dns servers (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.8.4). I was able to get into league after that.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 03:24

MeatRocket8: Aug 3, 2011

Zinjnok posted:

I think I might have found a workaround for you. On your xbox, go to setting > network > advanced network settings > DNS and then set it to googles dns servers (8.8.8.8 and 8.8.8.4). I was able to get into league after that.

Awesome. This worked for me, thanks.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 04:59

Dr. Faustus: Feb 18, 2001; Grimey Drawer

I think because of personal poo poo I've been just working on the regular single-player challenges while I get warmed up, which is feeling much more sensitive than it was (now, when you hear the tires or feel the rumble, ACT NOW because it's almost too late already, and I've noticed more whip-saw over-correction than I remember.)
I want to agree that in SP I keep finding the exact same driver who, if I don't literally get out in front of him early (not easy in a 24-car field) I must rewind the moment he overtakes me because after that, he is gone. It's always the same AI driver and it doesn't matter if I opt for a speed tune or a grip tune, he's always faster than the entire field by a ridiculous amount, and he never makes mistakes unlike the other drivers. It doesn't even matter if it's a track with long straights where you need top speed, or twisty tracks that favor grippy cars. Regardless, I hate this one AI because I know the race is going to be me having to be dirty or a blocker to even have a chance against this one AI. Every race.

It's frustrating because I never quite had this problem (that I remember) in previous versions. With determination I could always compete and win. But in this is weird as gently caress. I hope it is a bug and Turn10 can fix it.Including myself, there are literally 22 other cars that cannot compete with this one AI.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 05:18

L_Harrison: May 22, 2007

^ I have the same problem, and it's always Go Spastic, who I'm pretty sure is/was a goon (who isn't on the spreadsheet however).

Oh, 24 cars on the Daytona oval track? What could possibly go wrong?

# ? Sep 17, 2015 05:52

Dr. Faustus: Feb 18, 2001; Grimey Drawer

Love the pics, LH.

My guy I think is named "EdTheScarecrow." He's not the list, either, but I see his car and I know I'm in the poo poo and I just have to fight dirty, and unlike some people I really don't want to act that way. I'm afraid THE CLOUD will see it and make me a dirty driver in other peoples' SP races. I loved learning Daytona and Brands Hatch, I love being at a disadvantage on a course because if I come back and win it feels that much more amazing.

But when there's just one AI car that consistently seems to be a class or more above your best tune, it feels like there's a problem. On the other hand, it's fun to have a nemesis, but not that fun.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 06:16

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

Yeah, there really is no challenge either way.

on expert, you finish a mile ahead of the pack. on pro you finish a mile ahead of the pack and 1000 feet behind the other guy.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 06:34

SLICK GOKU BABY: Jun 12, 2001; Hey Hey Let's Go! 喧嘩する
大切な物を protect my balls

X class in hoppers now... Just ran Daytona short at night... everyone running indy cars with no lights... theres a section of the track with no light... was interesting.

Edit 3 loving LAPS on nurburgring in the x class hopper...

# ? Sep 17, 2015 06:36

Dr. Faustus: Feb 18, 2001; Grimey Drawer

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Edit 3 loving LAPS on nurburgring in the x class hopper...

The horror... the horror.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 06:53

DEEP STATE PLOT: Aug 13, 2008; Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

X class in hoppers now... Just ran Daytona short at night... everyone running indy cars with no lights... theres a section of the track with no light... was interesting.

Edit 3 loving LAPS on nurburgring in the x class hopper...

ask me about spending four hours straight on the ring in forza 4 so i could set a lap time of under 6 minutes

# ? Sep 17, 2015 07:16

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

the indy endurance race is tedious as gently caress. you can lap the pack every ~7 laps or so and they're all suicidal and try to take out you at every shot.

I had to pit at lap 18, everybody but 1 guy pitted when i was at lap 20 which would have been lap 17-18 for them, but the guy in second didn't pit until i was on lap 24, which means he would take 1 less pit stop in the race than the entire rest of the field.

something is definitely fucky here.

e: the loving AI cuts over the grass at the pit exit to get onto the track doing 70 miles an hour right in front of other cars doing 230. :psyduck:

Powershift fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Sep 17, 2015

# ? Sep 17, 2015 07:21

Dr. Faustus: Feb 18, 2001; Grimey Drawer

Cubey posted:

ask me about spending four hours straight on the ring in forza 4 so i could set a lap time of under 6 minutes

Feel the 'Burg

# ? Sep 17, 2015 07:33

ethanol: Jul 13, 2007

Fyi might want to stay out of the preview dashboard for now. It has some issues including one that can mess up forza 6

http://m.windowscentral.com/heres-whats-broken-first-wave-new-xbox-one-experience-preview

# ? Sep 17, 2015 15:05

GramCracker: Oct 8, 2005; beauty by stroll

I'm sure this has been discussed - why did Turn10 not decide to actually make the AI less lovely? They have zero situational awareness (this is my biggest issue with them) and every single one drives the exact same drat line and rarely deviates from it.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 19:44

TheScott2K: Oct 26, 2003; I'm just saying, there's a nonzero chance Trump has a really toad penis.

GramCracker posted:

I'm sure this has been discussed - why did Turn10 not decide to actually make the AI less lovely? They have zero situational awareness (this is my biggest issue with them) and every single one drives the exact same drat line and rarely deviates from it.

AI:Forza::Sound:GT

It will never change.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 19:51

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

The AI is bad but I just tune it to the max difficulty where I can still win every race. It's fun to pass the bad AI, and I basically just use the single player to memorize the tracks anyways. And grind money/levels, of course.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 19:53

Powershift: Nov 23, 2009

the pro AI is definitely hosed.

on the bathurst endurance race, i'm consistently running 2:19 flat, the fastest AI car's fastest lap is 2:20.3, and he's getting away from me.

e: i took a cheater line through the esses and knocked ~100 foot off him a lap, once i got within 700 feet of him, i caught, passed, and got 700 feet ahead within 1 lap. it does seem to be a problem with AI not near you being controlled differently. maybe the cloud is just too powerful.

Powershift fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Sep 17, 2015

# ? Sep 17, 2015 22:16

L_Harrison: May 22, 2007

Does anyone really know what the Cloud is?

# ? Sep 17, 2015 23:21

BCRock: Dec 13, 2005; I'm huge in Japan

Is it a series of tubes?

# ? Sep 17, 2015 23:57

Norns: Nov 21, 2011; Senior Shitposting Strategist

L_Harrison posted:

Does anyone really know what the Cloud is?

Dudes really into vaping compare clouds a lot. At least these loving morons here do.

# ? Sep 17, 2015 23:58

Ether Frenzy: Dec 22, 2006; Nap Ghost

GramCracker posted:

I'm sure this has been discussed - why did Turn10 not decide to actually make the AI less lovely? They have zero situational awareness (this is my biggest issue with them) and every single one drives the exact same drat line and rarely deviates from it.

Here's a 3 minute video of the unbeatable AI showing pretty good situational awareness and driving varied lines
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Ether%20Frenzy/video/9794309

Or maybe it's just me :shrug:

Give them the same room through a corner as you'd give a human opponent and they seem fine to me.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 01:00

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

Powershift posted:

the pro AI is definitely hosed.

on the bathurst endurance race, i'm consistently running 2:19 flat, the fastest AI car's fastest lap is 2:20.3, and he's getting away from me.

e: i took a cheater line through the esses and knocked ~100 foot off him a lap, once i got within 700 feet of him, i caught, passed, and got 700 feet ahead within 1 lap. it does seem to be a problem with AI not near you being controlled differently. maybe the cloud is just too powerful.

I noticed that last night when playing a private multiplayer game with AI switched on. There's no way a Chrysler 300C can corner at the same speed as a Ferrari in B Class, no matter how good the driver is.

Are there any good Forza 6 setup/mod guides out yet?

# ? Sep 18, 2015 02:35

GutBomb: Jun 15, 2005; Dude?

You Am I posted:

I noticed that last night when playing a private multiplayer game with AI switched on. There's no way a Chrysler 300C can corner at the same speed as a Ferrari in B Class, no matter how good the driver is.

Are there any good Forza 6 setup/mod guides out yet?

With the right driver and modifications it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 300C outperform a Ferrari in a corner.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 02:43

ethanol: Jul 13, 2007

ferraris have always been poo poo in forza. which isn't surprising because they're poo poo in real life too

# ? Sep 18, 2015 02:44

Ether Frenzy: Dec 22, 2006; Nap Ghost

Wheel Guy from Turn 10 over at FM.net posted:

My name is Christian and I'm Gameplay Engineering Lead for Forza Motorsport 6. I also happen to be a fairly practiced Forza player since Forza Motorsport 1 (before I started working for Turn 10) and a wheel player since I got my hands on the Forza Motorsport 2 demo.

I'm writing this to help you understand more about how force feedback steering wheels work and why certain things are the way they are. After reading this, you'll maybe have answers to questions you've had about Xbox One steering wheels and how to make the best out of them.

Our Force Feedback code was re-written for Forza 5 to work with the Xbox One and the new steering wheels. Then we took what we had from FM5 and spent quite a bit of time making improvements for FM6 as well as tweaking the effects for every wheel that is currently supported (more on that later). We've spent time with every force feedback Xbox One wheel (Thrustmaster TX, MadCatz, Logitech G920, and the Fanatec ClubSport) to make sure we provide you with the best experience we can.

Force feedback design is a bit of an art and there are a lot of compromises involved. We generally approach it with an eye towards two main priorities: giving you an authentic experience, and giving you as much information as we can about what your car and tires are doing to help you perfect your driving.

For those who are not interested in the details and just want a good experience with a steering wheel, you can skim this post for the portions in bold for specific practical advice.

Let me start with a very high level (and a bit simplistic) overview of how things work when you player Forza with a steering wheel.

Your wheel (and pedals) have sensors. The sensors detect how much your wheel is turned and how far your pedals are pressed and send electric signals to the wheel's own CPU running proprietary firmware. The wheel's brains then translate the electric signals from the sensors into a digital output that it sends to the Xbox One. For simplicity, let's assume that the output goes something like "Wheel is turned 50% to the right" or "Gas pedal is pressed 20%".

This brings up a question: how does the wheel know how much electricity from the sensor corresponds to 50%? (or 10%, or 100%)?

If you have a Force Feedback wheel, you will have noticed that every time you power it up, the steering wheel rotates itself all the way to one end, and then all the way to the other. This is a calibration process that helps the wheel figure out how much electricity to expect from the sensors at each end of the range. That calibration is how the wheel can accurately assess where the center is, and where 10% to the right or left is.

So because your force feedback wheel has motors than rotate the steering wheel, it can do this calibration on its own every time you start it. But what about the pedals? Those can't move themselves. The pedals, usually, still need calibration. So they rely on something else: every time you press the pedal, the wheel re-calibrates its understand of where the edges are. If you press really hard, you force the sensor to send its maximum electric signal, and the wheel's firmware takes that to mean 100% gas/brake/clutch. It will, from there on out, translate all other signals from the same sensor as something in the middle between zero and that maximum. There is an interesting conclusion here: if you never press the pedal very hard, the wheel can get confused about where the maximum (100% input) is. If the wheel only ever detects your very soft presses on the pedal, it may think that's the max signal it can get from the sensor and translate all the other signals as a percentage of that max. The net effect is a very touchy pedal: e.g. when the maximum is 5, a very soft brushing of the pedal that registers a 1 is now 20% input. This is where the advice to press your brake pedal hard three times after turning on your wheel hardware comes from: it helps the wheel calibrate its understanding of the sensor signals.

It's worth noting that we haven't yet talked about the game or the Xbox One. The above process all happens inside your wheel hardware. Neither the Xbox nor any game running on it has much to do with this part. So the above calibration process works at the hardware level and will work with any game, not just Forza.

So you've moved the wheel and pedals, the wheel translated your inputs and sent them to the Xbox One/Forza, what's next?

The game now applies a little bit of logic to the message it received that says you've pressed the gas at 10%. This is to allow you to set deadzones and respect them in the game. So let's say you've set your deadzones on the "acceleration axis" (read: gas pedal) to 5% on the inside and 95% on the outside (my personal setting). This means that Forza will ignore the first 5% of input on the gas pedal (so anything less than 5% gets translated to zero), and everything above 95% will get translated to 100%. For values in the middle, say the 10% example above, we will simply map it to a new value between 0 and 100%. Let's change the example and assume you've set your deadzones to 25% and 75% on the inside and outside respectively (not recommended). Why is this a bad idea? Well, you have now effectively halved your resolution. Forza has to translate the 50 values between 25 and 75 and map them to a 0-100% input. So a 26 input now means 2% gas and 27 means 4% gas. Notice the problem? There is no way for you to apply 3% gas in this scenario. You've lost resolution (i.e. precision). If deadzones make you lose precision, why use them at all? Well, no hardware is perfect, and if you set your deadzones to 0 and 100 (i.e. nothing), you may notice some phantom inputs being applied -- a little bit of gas when you're completely off the pedal or never being able to get to 100% gas.

This brings us to the next practical piece of advice: generally speaking, it's best to set your deadzones on every axis to the minimum (as close to 0 on the inside and as close to 100 on the outside) you can get away with but no less. If you ever notice phantom inputs: increase your inside deadzone. If you press as hard as you're comfortable with and still can't get to 100%, increase your outside deadzone. The telemetry view (down on the d-pad while driving) makes it easy for you to see the exact value of input you're applying. The same applies to your steering axis; if you find it hard to keep the car going straight, you may be having some electronic noise from the sensor registering a little bit of left or right input. You may add a bit of inside deadzone to compensate.

So what about degrees of rotation? For Xbox One Force Feedback wheels, the degrees of rotation are applied to the wheel hardware itself. So when you set your wheel to 900 degrees, Forza sends a signal to the hardware to ask it to restrict its range to 900 degrees. This makes sure that you get motor resistance when you reach the end of the rotation range, and the wheel hardware uses that knowledge to translate your input into a percentage. So at 900 degrees of rotation (450 degrees to the right and 450 degrees to the left), the wheel will respond to a 225 degree right rotation by sending a (225/450=) 50% right signal.

Forza then takes that 50% right signal and translates it into a steering angle. We author every car in Forza with knowledge about how far the wheels can actually turn. Your input is then applied as a percentage of that. So if you're driving a car whose wheels can turn 35 degrees, your 50% input is now 17.5 degrees (off the straight ahead point). There are some interesting conclusions here. Different cars can have very different ranges of wheel rotation, generally speaking a street car's front wheels will have a lot more range of rotation than a race car to allow for low speed maneuvering, parking, etc... (race cars don't need to parallel park). At higher speeds, you actually don't need (and shouldn't) apply a lot of rotation to the front wheels. So what happens when you drive a race car that has, say, 12 degrees of wheel steering in each direction with a 900 degree wheel? Your rather large 225 degree right rotation now translates to 50%, which is 6 degrees of wheel rotation on this particular car. That's not a whole lot, and if you want to turn harder/sharper you'll have to turn your steering wheel more. This would feel sluggish to most people. And it's why real race cars usually have much quicker steering ratios than that: so that drivers don't have to go hand over hand to get the car to turn.

The conclusion: find a degrees of rotation that strikes a balance between being slow enough to not feel twitchy and fast enough to let you turn lock to lock without having to take your hands off the wheel. If you're looking for the the best, no compromise experience, you may want to switch between a higher degree of rotation setting when you're driving street cars and a lower degree of rotation setting when you're driving race cars to get the best of both worlds. We've played a lot with these settings and found 540 degree to offer a fair compromise between the two extremes, and that's why we've set that as the default setting in Forza Motorsport 6. In my own play, I generally keep it at then although every now and then I will go a little higher if a certain car feels too twitchy at 540. Forza Motorsport 6 saves your setting and applies it to the wheel every time you connect it (FM5 didn't save that setting and you had to change it every time). Note that Forza merely sends your degrees of rotation setting to the wheel to apply, the important conslusion here is that the wheel hardware and firmware can override/ignore that setting. This means that with wheels that allow you to set sensitivity or degrees of rotation on the hardware itself (e.g. Fanatec Clubsport), the wheel setting overrides the Forza setting. That's why, for example, the Fanatec ClubSport v2 wheel has an "auto" setting: this lets the hardware accept the settings from the game.

We've covered a lot about how your inputs work with a steering wheel and Forza. I will prepare another post that talks a bit more about the forces we apply to the wheel (the force feedback portion) and how that works. In the mean time, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have about steering wheels and Forza and will try to amend this post with answers to frequently asked questions.�

# ? Sep 18, 2015 02:51

Norns: Nov 21, 2011; Senior Shitposting Strategist

The bit about the pedal calibration was useful for me when I found that the other day.

Also the TX ffb kinda kicks rear end compared to my g27. And curbs don't make the wheel sound like gunfire, so that's cool.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 03:30

PT6A: Jan 5, 2006; Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

Powershift posted:

e: the loving AI cuts over the grass at the pit exit to get onto the track doing 70 miles an hour right in front of other cars doing 230.

You live in Calgary, you should be familiar with this sort of merging behaviour by now.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 03:43

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

GutBomb posted:

With the right driver and modifications it wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 300C outperform a Ferrari in a corner.

I doubt a stock 300C would do well against a modified 355.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 03:55

drgitlin: Jul 25, 2003; luv 2 get custom titles from a forum that goes into revolt when its told to stop using a bad word.

GramCracker posted:

I'm sure this has been discussed - why did Turn10 not decide to actually make the AI less lovely? They have zero situational awareness (this is my biggest issue with them) and every single one drives the exact same drat line and rarely deviates from it.

I talked to Dan and the team about it earlier this year: http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/06/forza-motorsport-6-getting-dark-and-wet-in-a-world-first-hands-on/

# ? Sep 18, 2015 04:33

L_Harrison: May 22, 2007

Yeah the drivatars are a bit frustrating at times, especially when you're racing vehicles that have low mechanical grip, like the 1960s Grand Prix cars or the Can-Am cars. Most of them will slow down and park in the center of the corner when you're behind them, but once you make the pass ... look out! They'll miraculously find magic grip where you can't and blow your doors off, defying all the laws of physics.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 07:13

MeatRocket8: Aug 3, 2011

Amazon gave me $6 back because I bitched about multiplayer not working. That's enough for a chinese take out meal.

# ? Sep 18, 2015 10:30

MOAR: Mar 6, 2012; Death! Put your jacket on or you'll get frostbite!

katka posted:

Also I got the Ford GT for playing the demo but the game hasn't given me the achievement for owning it and the Ford GT spec league is saying I don't own an eligible car. Is this a bug or do I need to buy another one?

You need to buy one and the achievement is yours!

# ? Sep 18, 2015 13:47

GentlemanofLeisure: Aug 27, 2008

ChocNitty posted:

Amazon gave me $6 back because I bitched about multiplayer not working. That's enough for a chinese take out meal.

Do you actually live IN China???

# ? Sep 18, 2015 14:18

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# ? May 28, 2024 20:25

WienerDog: Apr 8, 2007; Resident Rocking Dachshund

ChocNitty posted:

Amazon gave me $6 back because I bitched about multiplayer not working. That's enough for a chinese take out meal.

That sounds so strange to me...

How long were you on the phone, and what is minimum wage where you live?

# ? Sep 18, 2015 20:23

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