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jyrka posted:So these retards want to kill off non-elite football. Why? If you think their proposals are worse than the current system you might just not be paying attention. They're not doing this on the cuff, this is a multiple-year process being acted upon because the same year everyone becomes absolutely sick of FIFAs poo poo then England went and broke the transfer market forever. An end of loans, a maximum amount of players you can be registered paying, and a two year contract protect period followed by buyout and then bosman movement is what's being discussed. It's a good groundwork they've got to offer.
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Sep 18, 2015 13:46
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vyelkin posted:So if Fifpro got everything they wanted there would be no more transfer fees, no more loans, no more massive squads full of every player Chelsea could get to pick up a pen, and potentially no more Jorge Mendes. More swap deals and bosman signings. Big clubs would have to focus more on poaching youth players before they signed professional contracts. Ultimately I doubt it would make a huge difference in terms of competitiveness.
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Sep 18, 2015 14:07
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especially not without a wage cap
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Sep 18, 2015 14:11
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I imagine instead of spending stupid money on transfer fee's and agents, the cash would go straight to the players in wages. It almost sounds like footballers would fall into the normal job market. Club puts out job offer stating they want a striker,the salary they will pay and the contract length. 10 players apply and the club picks the one they want. The player is bound by the contract until it is finished or unless there is some legit gripe as to why the contract hasn't been fulfilled by the club.
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Sep 18, 2015 14:18
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RICO statutes
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Sep 18, 2015 14:19
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Spangly A posted:If you think their proposals are worse than the current system you might just not be paying attention. They're not doing this on the cuff, this is a multiple-year process being acted upon because the same year everyone becomes absolutely sick of FIFAs poo poo then England went and broke the transfer market forever. Why is it better when big clubs can sign players with no transfer fees?
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Sep 18, 2015 14:50
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jyrka posted:Why is it better when big clubs can sign players with no transfer fees? Because they're asking for strict squad limits, so big clubs can't actually sign anyone because they're all miles above the limit being discussed. Big clubs also won't be able to just snap up anyone they want, with a two year registration protection period being discussed. This in no way helps big clubs stockpile talent, it reduces agent influence, it reduces FIFA's sway over player disputes, it lets smaller clubs simply pay wages and be done with it without having to worry about scouting and buying a new player. They just have to offer wages. Frankly if that's the cause of your concern you have absolutely nothing to worry about. The issue that's going to arise will be cashflow for smaller clubs, but it's worth seeing if reducing arbitrary blocks to player movement leads to a correction in wages as the talent pool grows lower down the football hierarchy.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:15
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Why wouldn't the big clubs just wait out contracts and then snap up players on free transfers? Seems like this proposal may change things for a couple years, then Chelsea will just get the players they want for free when their contacts run out.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:28
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It would ruin a lot of smaller leagues and only help the big clubs. Wages would spiral even more out of control.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:33
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For example, let's say it's August 31, 2013 and Real Madrid want to sign under contract with Tottenham Gareth Bale who also wants to go to Madrid. What would happen under the proposed rules that is "better" than what really happened?
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Sep 18, 2015 15:34
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And as for agent power, just imagine what Mendes could do when he has 5 of his players available for free transfers at the same time. Itd be an orgy of greed and corruption.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:38
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Even if ECJ abolishes the transfer system, I don't see how you'd enforce a squad restriction rule. None of the big clubs would want that as they would be able to poach every single talented player. And who'd represent players if there's no more agent power? I imagine the commission based yearly payouts will stay, so Mendes will probably just go shopping for the best paying clubs for his players as he has always done
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Sep 18, 2015 15:42
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jyrka posted:For example, let's say it's August 31, 2013 and Real Madrid want to sign under contract with Tottenham Gareth Bale who also wants to go to Madrid. What would happen under the proposed rules that is "better" than what really happened? it sounds like they buy out the value of the contract rather than whatever price the selling club decides
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Sep 18, 2015 15:42
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Hegay posted:Wages would spiral even more out of control. I find it funny that people talk about out of control wages when Zlatan, Rooney, Messi and Ronaldo all make less money than Joe Johnson of the Brooklyn Nets. Edit: Also I could see a no transfer fee world working if loans were outlawed. Not all players are going to move to Real Madrid to sit on the bench if they can't go out on loan, and can't cancel their contract without buying it out. Hashtag Banterzone fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Sep 18, 2015 |
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Sep 18, 2015 15:46
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Poor Sepp Blatter. All of these despicable criminals getting arrested left and right. Blatter probably thought they were in it for the love of the beautiful game, just like himself! You are too good for this world, Sepp.
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Sep 18, 2015 15:52
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Hashtag Banterzone posted:I find it funny that people talk about out of control wages when Zlatan, Rooney, Messi and Ronaldo all make less money than Joe Johnson of the Brooklyn Nets. Players being able to cancel their contracts when they arent playing is going to be in the proposals. I genuinely can't believe any of you think this isn't good news. FIFA has no business setting the terms of how football contracts work, they're a bunch of criminals. There's going to be ways to exploit the poo poo out of a no-contract system but it's going to be a system that's accountable to at least someone. Pointing out that the remains of the system are poo poo is hardly a comeback.
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Sep 18, 2015 18:56
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Transfer sagas won't be so dramatic when it's just the footballer handing in their two months notice
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Sep 18, 2015 19:04
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Spangly A posted:Players being able to cancel their contracts when they arent playing is going to be in the proposals. This would kill football.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:10
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This would not really make much difference except that players would get paid more.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:12
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blue footed boobie posted:This would not really make much difference except that players would get paid more. Do you really want Nicklas Bendtner to make even more money?!
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Sep 18, 2015 19:16
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blue footed boobie posted:This would not really make much difference except that players would get paid more. Maybe the players are the very top. All the other clubs rely on transfer fees.
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Sep 18, 2015 19:17
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The teams in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League received over 90 million euros combined in transfer fees this summer. How can they replace that income with no transfer fees?
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Sep 18, 2015 19:34
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jyrka posted:The teams in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League received over 90 million euros combined in transfer fees this summer. How can they replace that income with no transfer fees? free market!!!
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Sep 18, 2015 19:48
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jyrka posted:The teams in the Belgian Jupiler Pro League received over 90 million euros combined in transfer fees this summer. How can they replace that income with no transfer fees? clearly, there is no way that business could be conducted in any other way than how we do it now. if we remove one revenue stream from one part of the equation, no other part of the system can be changed in any way whatsoever to compensate for the lost income of lower level clubs. this is impossible and could never happen
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Sep 18, 2015 19:50
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Lutha Mahtin posted:clearly, there is no way that business could be conducted in any other way than how we do it now. if we remove one revenue stream from one part of the equation, no other part of the system can be changed in any way whatsoever to compensate for the lost income of lower level clubs. this is impossible and could never happen ??? I'm asking what that way is. There doesn't seem to be anything proposed and wouldn't it be good to have something before attempting to massive change things?
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Sep 18, 2015 20:04
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jyrka posted:??? are you making the argument we shouldn't stop belgian people getting rich on the back of African traded labour because it might make less football clubs able to keep exploiting that labour e;This is all very dumb and I hope Jerome Valcke runs away to Russia
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Sep 18, 2015 20:21
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Lutha Mahtin posted:clearly, there is no way that business could be conducted in any other way than how we do it now. if we remove one revenue stream from one part of the equation, no other part of the system can be changed in any way whatsoever to compensate for the lost income of lower level clubs. this is impossible and could never happen Clubs in the lower leagues literally exist by bringing up youth players and selling them on in transfer fees to bigger clubs. You remove that, what do they do to recoup that lost income?
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Sep 18, 2015 20:33
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serious gaylord posted:Clubs in the lower leagues literally exist by bringing up youth players and selling them on in transfer fees to bigger clubs. You remove that, what do they do to recoup that lost income? i'm not really sure this is true
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Sep 18, 2015 20:36
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Jose posted:i'm not really sure this is true if we were talking about (say) a players' union contract negotiation this might be an important issue. but imo it's kind of irrelevant when the question at hand is actually whether the practice is a violation of labor rights. and if it turns out to be illegal, and this money drying up really does hit lower level clubs hard, it seems rather presumptuous to claim that the entirety of non-elite leagues will collapse and nothing will be done by anyone
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Sep 18, 2015 20:59
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Jose posted:i'm not really sure this is true A club like Crewe would have gone out of business years ago without their youth academy bringing players through. If they don't get any transfer fees for those players how do you replace that revenue stream?
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Sep 18, 2015 21:02
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serious gaylord posted:A club like Crewe would have gone out of business years ago without their youth academy bringing players through. If they don't get any transfer fees for those players how do you replace that revenue stream? do crewe really make that much money selling players though? it seems to me they bring players through so they can stay in the league by playing them and selling one for a big fee provides money to improve the stadium/training ground or maybe provide money for a promotion push
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Sep 18, 2015 21:04
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serious gaylord posted:Clubs in the lower leagues literally exist by bringing up youth players and selling them on in transfer fees to bigger clubs. You remove that, what do they do to recoup that lost income? That hasn't really been the case for the last 20+ years. How many current players can you name in the Premier League who were bought directly from the lower leagues and aren't complete no-marks? There's a handful who did it as teenagers, but for the most part it's players being snapped up by the elite clubs and then put on a loan carousel until they shrivel up and die.
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Sep 18, 2015 21:13
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Jose posted:do crewe really make that much money selling players though? Their turnover was £2.31m in 2011 and then in 2012 they sold Nick Powell to Man United for 7.5m and Ashley Westwood to Aston Villa for 2.5m.
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Sep 18, 2015 21:20
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jyrka posted:Their turnover was £2.31m in 2011 and then in 2012 they sold Nick Powell to Man United for 7.5m and Ashley Westwood to Aston Villa for 2.5m. so they've basically done it like once ever. one of the things fifpro did was get an economist who mentioned is that trickle down economics in football is bullshit
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Sep 18, 2015 21:23
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Jose posted:so they've basically done it like once ever. one of the things fifpro did was get an economist who mentioned is that trickle down economics in football is bullshit No, not once ever. You can google their transfer history if you want. This is what is allowing them to exist.
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Sep 18, 2015 21:25
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jyrka posted:No, not once ever. You can google their transfer history if you want. This is what is allowing them to exist. so if they didn't sell youth players for large amounts of money they'd go bust? or they'd just stay in league 1/2? and every club in league 1/2 also does this and not just crewe?
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Sep 18, 2015 21:27
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Jose posted:so if they didn't sell youth players for large amounts of money they'd go bust? or they'd just stay in league 1/2? and every club in league 1/2 also does this and not just crewe? I imagine they would go bust. Here's an interview with their chairman about their finances: http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/crewe-alex-chairman-calm-despite-5602784 I can't say for certain that all League 1 clubs are selling clubs but most definitely are.
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Sep 18, 2015 21:39
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jyrka posted:I imagine they would go bust. Here's an interview with their chairman about their finances: http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/crewe-alex-chairman-calm-despite-5602784 tbf he's just saying they use player sales to fund the academy there
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Sep 18, 2015 21:42
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jyrka posted:I imagine they would go bust. Here's an interview with their chairman about their finances: http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/crewe-alex-chairman-calm-despite-5602784 all but like 5 clubs in the world are selling clubs. basing a clubs finances on ensuring they can produce enough wonder kids to make a lot of money off them is as stupid for a club as basing it off being in a competition they could easily not be in i'm not saying the new system would be better but pretending like all lower league clubs would go bust because they can't sometimes sell a wonder kid is stupid
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Sep 18, 2015 21:44
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Jose posted:so if they didn't sell youth players for large amounts of money they'd go bust? or they'd just stay in league 1/2? and every club in league 1/2 also does this and not just crewe? Some clubs have large crowds and chairmen that plug money into them. Some clubs exist by selling a bunch of youth players for 100k a year and occasionally get a star that they sell for a few million. Its not the wonder kids that keep these clubs up, its the regular turnover of lower quality players they feed into league 1 teams.
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Sep 18, 2015 21:46
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