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YoshiOfYellow posted:Yeah, 1.0 was so good they had to drop a meteor on it. How else are they going to keep out the filthy casuals who don't appreciate it
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Sep 21, 2015 22:38
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Niton posted:If you're just looking for ideas, you could try http://xivbubblegum.pink/ This is rad! Had no idea it existed.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:06
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Taear posted:Add "buy order" to the marketplace. Put into it the ability to add materials so if you accept the buy order it begins the craft, perhaps. Only if it uses EVE's broker system so that people who don't understand how the market work end up buying my single units of iron ore for 1,000,000 gil instead of buying it from their alt.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:20
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Late response, but:Farg posted:they also seem to be big proponents of the whole "3.0 is a lazy 2.0 reskin" which best I can understand they mean that they wanted more new types of content? Understandable I guess, they're getting it with explorations and verminion The complaints (and I'm not talking specifically about BG here but more generally why some endgame people are getting pissed with 3.0) stem from the notion that Heavensward frontloaded all it's content as either things which were one-offs or, more critically, were rendered obsolete way before they should have been. Like, no one is going to claim that the Heavensward MSQ campaign wasn't loving incredible, but you really only go through that once. The only purpose to the utterly amazing Azys Lla, for example, now is a bunch of miners hitting the adaman ore node every 30 minutes. Lots and lots of that content is now mostly abandoned or used for leveling. More seriously the dev team did something really odd with the gear progression which basically self-sabotaged their expansion a little bit. You step into L60 endgame at about i145, and set about gearing up. And for awhile that was fine; there was Law stuff, at i170, and you can do hunts and whatnot to upgrade to i180. But the iLvl rewards just kept going up, really really fast, and it kept invalidating "old" gear, where "old" was like "I got this two weeks ago". Esoteric is the biggest offender here because it replaces a Law -> Primal -> Alex Normal progression path with "do dungeons until capped", and suddenly a bunch of stuff, from this very expansion, is obsolete and run a lot less, if at all. The argument "3.0 is a 2.0 reskin" shouldn't really mean that Heavensward is Realm Reborn But Moreso. The criticism that holds water is that after 1.5 years of releasing a broader swath of content and providing different options for players, all the systems in current endgame now devolve into naked tome/scrip grinds and a single set of (overtuned) raids, and that devolution happens really fast. It seems like a step backwards, all the way back to how 2.0 was just darklight grinding and a single set of Coil turns. You can say, "well a lot of new stuff is coming in 3.1", but why wasn't some of it already here in 3.0? They had to have a better sense of content release by the time they were planning out the Heavensward content, but all the mechanisms to retain subs before the next patch are pretty shoddy.
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Sep 22, 2015 01:30
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It feels to me like they were simply unprepared for the amount of work creating an expansion pack of the magnitude they had planned would entail. The vast, vast majority of the efforts flowed into the crafting of the MSQ, the leveling dungeons, and the overworld itself. They're all visually impressive, and the storyline's pretty good (aside from the weird pacing problems, with side storylines just poking their noses in from time to time like a drunken uncle before vanishing back into the corner), but the amount of time I'm going to spend doing them is only a small portion of the whole game. The end result is that, by the time they got to the very tail-end of the expansion's development, they were already near to burning out and at the limits of the development time they had left. My theory explains a lot of the weirdness that the endgame has: why poo poo gets replaced so easily; why Bismarck is useless to do more than once; why Alex NM is as easy as CT is supposed to be, and so on. In retrospect, I think they should have:
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Sep 22, 2015 01:55
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Even though I understand why it was that way at launch, it was also an enormous punt to not add EXP to HLDR mobs in 3.05. There's a ton of instances that are completely useless right now, most of which are quite fun to do.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:29
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Azys La is pretty clearly supposed to be where a lot of really interesting stuff happens and is placed in the storyline patches though, I don't think it's a waste of resources as much as something that they have plans for utilizing that will be actualized over the next couple years of 3.x. Mostly I agree that the gear progression in this game is a little bizarre, and they could really stand to create reasons why you would want to get some of the "middle" gear, or rethink things entirely. Within the current paradigms, they probably should have done something like have Bismark drop i190 accessories so that people actually run it, with Alexander Story's loot reworked a bit so that it's entirely leftside gear. I also kind of worry that they're doing one of the most stupid and wasteful things that WoW did and have a lot of cool dungeons that nobody runs, and also undervaluing how much it really helps the game to have more of them to cycle through. They're a ton of work to produce, granted, but as it is, Library should just be straight up thrown in expert roulette before the playerbase loses its collective goddamned mind. They should really, really reconsider only having 2 experts available this patch cycle in general, even if it means going back to 2.0 dungeons for "extreme" versions in order to cut down production cost. I remember 2.1 felt a lot like "god I wish we had a some of this stuff way earlier as something to do" when it finally dropped, especially the relic weapon questline. Similarly I wish they'd have included something grindy to chew on while waiting a long time for the first major content patch; I have a feeling this will be the airship explorations this time around. Basically, I completely agree with Vermain's point #3 above. I wish they were a little better about thinking about what it's like to play what's available for months on end when they go a long time between patches. On the bright side though remember there are a ton of people just starting and catching up, and talking to them they are still overwhelmed with stuff to do and even reaching 60 in the first place, and even hyper nerds like me still have a lot of 60s to get. It is kind of nice for them that we all have until November to catch up to each other, and I'm certainly feeling less pressure to worry about clearing Alexander floors because there will still be plenty of time once we finally get A1S down (this week maybe???) to get decked out in all the drops before 3.2. Boten Anna fucked around with this message at 02:37 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 02:34
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Meiteron posted:The criticism that holds water is that after 1.5 years of releasing a broader swath of content and providing different options for players, all the systems in current endgame now devolve into naked tome/scrip grinds and a single set of (overtuned) raids, and that devolution happens really fast. It seems like a step backwards, all the way back to how 2.0 was just darklight grinding and a single set of Coil turns. That's exactly the reason I let my sub lapse awhile ago. And it's the same reason I let it lapse way back in like 2.1, when it became clear that for awhile the core gameplay was going to be running two dungeons over and over again. This time, I just came to that realization way faster, and leveling alts is less appealing because I've seen those dungeons too many times already. I also liked the miniature, lived-in ARR zones and world a lot more than the Heavensward ones, but that's another argument.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:41
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SUPPOSEDLY they made the zones big so that they could put stuff there but with the exception of Azys La I'm not really sure the hell what. The game has never been particularly good at giving you reasons to run around the world regularly aside from quests you only ever do once or FATE grinding.
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Sep 22, 2015 02:48
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Boten Anna posted:SUPPOSEDLY they made the zones big so that they could put stuff there but with the exception of Azys La I'm not really sure the hell what. The game has never been particularly good at giving you reasons to run around the world regularly aside from quests you only ever do once or FATE grinding. Dravanian Forelands was really good like that - in fact, I think Dravanian Forelands is the best designed zone in either expansion, that stupid hunter ledge aside. You spend so much time twisting through it following the plot that it feels properly epic.. then you cap it off by climbing a mountain to get to The Churning Mists. Niton fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 02:51
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Niton posted:Dravanian Forelands was really good like that - in fact, I think Dravanian Forelands is the best designed zone in either expansion, that stupid hunter ledge aside. You spend so much time twisting through it following the plot that it feels properly epic.. then you cap it off by climbing a mountain to get to The Churning Mists. All of the new zones are really cool, I can't really think of any that were clunkers. Other than BTN/MIN the only excuse I have to run around them is to do the two worst things in the game, hunts and FATEs, though  Despite having played nonstop for like 3 days by that point, I was practically bouncing out of my chair excited to meet Matoya though. Speaking of maybe I should give those broom quests a shot...
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Sep 22, 2015 03:04
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Forelands has some neat quest chains between tail feather and anyx trine too. Azys Lla is kinda disappointing in that other than a rare hunt target or the special fate there's little reason to go there.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:12
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i'm still confused as to why Bismarck Extreme was obsolete the day it came out
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Sep 22, 2015 03:19
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Boten Anna posted:I wish they were a little better about thinking about what it's like to play what's available for months on end when they go a long time between patches. Now there's a bit of an ironic echo to Yoshida's comment during his big FFXIV presentation about how Square-Enix had gotten too focused on aesthetic presentation over gameplay. That old devil's rearing its head here, too: Neverreap and The Fractal Continuum sure look great, but it's only begrudgingly that I actually even consider doing them nowadays. Rei_ posted:i'm still confused as to why Bismarck Extreme was obsolete the day it came out It was almost assuredly development fatigue preventing them from piecing together how the gearing systems they had at 60 would play out and interact with eachother. It's not the sort of critical blunder that a design team who's been doing this thing for two years would make on full stomachs and well-rested heads.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:21
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hobbesmaster posted:Forelands has some neat quest chains between tail feather and anyx trine too. I go to Azys Lla to fish.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:36
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Vermain posted:It was almost assuredly development fatigue preventing them from piecing together how the gearing systems they had at 60 would play out and interact with eachother. It's not the sort of critical blunder that a design team who's been doing this thing for two years would make on full stomachs and well-rested heads. What I find sort of inexcusable is that they literally had a better model of the itemization from all the way back in 2.0 and 2.1. I mean, they're the same iLvl numbers plus 100, for gently caress's sake. i70 for the easy tome and i90 for the capped tome and the raid, and i80 for the mid-tier content in between was how that worked, and it translates perfectly: 1. Law can be i170, don't bother with Hunt upgrades. 2. Both Primals and Alex Normal all become i180. Primal weapons could have different substats to distinguish them, grab the earlier accessory models and give them both something rightside as well. 3. Esoteric and Alex Savage become i190. If you want some wiggle room here make Eso i185 before upgrading, or something. Boom, entry-level, mid-tier, raid-tier. Instead when the gear came out for Eso and Savage it dropped a guillotine on everything before it. This method probably wouldn't keep people happy until 3.1, but it would have smoothed things out a lot better.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:37
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The lack of a whale pony is the biggest problem in ffxiv currently.
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Sep 22, 2015 03:41
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Meiteron posted:What I find sort of inexcusable is that they literally had a better model of the itemization from all the way back in 2.0 and 2.1. I mean, they're the same iLvl numbers plus 100, for gently caress's sake. i70 for the easy tome and i90 for the capped tome and the raid, and i80 for the mid-tier content in between was how that worked, and it translates perfectly: I thought, and still kind of do think it was really weird that the i80 crystal tower stuff came out months after anyone who had been playing since anywhere within the first couple months of launch at that point had a full set of i90 and was working on their like, second or third. Like why have this big, huge, weird and cool content that doesn't fit in progression? They fixed that later by also having gear upgrade items tied to the 24-person raids, but still...
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Sep 22, 2015 03:59
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I get the feeling that 3.0 Ayz lla and 3.5 Ayz lla will be very different zones
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Sep 22, 2015 05:16
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Rei_ posted:i'm still confused as to why Bismarck Extreme was obsolete the day it came out It really should have dropped an i185 ring set.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:24
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Farg posted:I get the feeling that 3.0 Ayz lla and 3.5 Ayz lla will be very different zones I mean, sure, but it's primarily empty space right now. If the choice was "do all of this tedious map construction for a patch more than half a year down the road" or "make more stuff for people to do in the interim between 3.0 and 3.5", they should've done the second.
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Sep 22, 2015 06:03
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Boten Anna posted:Looks like someone released a guide to A4S, more interestingly to me is it has a video that shows quarantine loving finally attached to it Another guide that isn't quite as rushed: http://solitude.guildwork.com/_/a4s
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Sep 22, 2015 06:10
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Boy I'm glad I've taken things slow. Having just hit endgame by the time I grab all the gear what with the weekly caps and all it'll be 3.1 time.
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Sep 22, 2015 06:24
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Evil Fluffy posted:Only if it uses EVE's broker system so that people who don't understand how the market work end up buying my single units of iron ore for 1,000,000 gil instead of buying it from their alt. people laughed at me when they found out i had 8 retainers. wait until i flood the loving market with buy orders for everything. WHO'S LAUGHING NOW.
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Sep 22, 2015 06:31
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Gotta cut them a little slack though. When's the last time an expansion to an mmo gave you three new classes and a race? I'm pretty sure no one.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:14
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Boten Anna posted:Azys La is pretty clearly supposed to be where a lot of really interesting stuff happens and is placed in the storyline patches though, I don't think it's a waste of resources as much as something that they have plans for utilizing that will be actualized over the next couple years of 3.x. Maaaan. I love the hell out of Azys Lla. It feels like it was designed for the very specific purpose, gameplay-wise, of serving as the "last level" (solo, anyway) of the 3.0 MSQ. It did a good job of storytelling-by-scenery, the details in the environment and placement of enemies as effective narratives for just what's going on throughout the islands, and though the quest direction is linear compared even to other zones in FFXIV, it had a satisfactory pace and some good storytelling beats. I loved especially the "drop everything and go a few rounds with the Legatus because you're there and you can and oh wait we both have better things to do right now" (let none mistake that both the Empire and We are mutual, if opposed, instigators of trouble). Altogether, it feels like a single, coherent level with clear progression and set of objectives that make sense as you get there. Also, it got me right in my FF6 nostalgia. Naturally, knowing in advance that it played host to the Warring Triad, I felt it poetic to go in as Ninja.  It felt awesome to ding my first 60 fighting those gnarly sphinx monsters in the shadow of the statues. (oh yeah, and I got giant pangs of Xenoblade as well, as with a lot of things in Heavensward) Once you get to fly around it, it's clear that there's a lot of unused space (quite a lot more than Mor Dhona had in 2.0), but that goes right to the notion that they've probably got plans for it across 3.x. But y'know, even if they ended up not doing much with it, it still served it's purpose perfectly in the questing experience. Mazed fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Sep 22, 2015 |
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Sep 22, 2015 07:32
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If you poopsock from day one, eventually you run out of content in an mmo. Who knew.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:34
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Flying around I've spotted quite a few spots that look like good places to pop dungeon entrances.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:38
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The Azys Lla music is one of my favorites from HW. I really enjoy the zone music, in general, enough to turn off mount music. Music good game good, even if it's boring right now.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:40
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My biggest complaint about Azys Lla is how yellow and cloudy everything is. It's such a drag coming from Sea of Clouds.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:43
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I liked Azys Lla a lot too, that's why I want to go there for more stuff! There at least leveling reasons to go Mor Dhona when 45+ - mainly leves but also class hunt logs. Azys Lla is a level 60 zone that you go through once during the msq.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:43
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Dr Pepper posted:Flying around I've spotted quite a few spots that look like good places to pop dungeon entrances. There's a bunch of those in a lot of HW zones, actually. The upper northeast of the dravanian forelands is another that I bet dollars to lallafel donuts that there'll be a dungeon.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:43
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Mymla posted:If you poopsock from day one, eventually you run out of content in an mmo. Who knew.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:45
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Ignimbrite posted:There's a bunch of those in a lot of HW zones, actually. The upper northeast of the dravanian forelands is another that I bet dollars to lallafel donuts that there'll be a dungeon. My concern is that there are seriously dozens of great places to stick a dungeon, but if we are getting 2 dungeons each in patches 3.1-3.5 - and we know that one of the 3.1 ones is a hardmode - then ... well, poo poo, we've got 8 dungeons left they can place? 4, if they do one original and one hardmode each patch? You could put 4 in Azys Lla alone and not hit all the places.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:21
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That's assuming that each patch will only ever be 2 dungeons or that we'll only ever get 1 HM dungeon and 1 new one or that 3.5 will be the last HW main patch OR that the patch cycle will stay every three months. You could build a canoe with that many ors.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:28
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Ignimbrite posted:That's assuming that each patch will only ever be 2 dungeons or that we'll only ever get 1 HM dungeon and 1 new one or that 3.5 will be the last HW main patch OR that the patch cycle will stay every three months. Well, Yoshi-P specifically said they're switching to 2 dungeons per patch in his Gamescom interview. Yes, sure, I suppose it's possible that they'll run it out to 3.99 and 4.0 will come in 2020, but it seems unlikely.
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Sep 22, 2015 08:40
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vOv posted:My biggest complaint about Azys Lla is how yellow and cloudy everything is. It's such a drag coming from Sea of Clouds. This is also my complaint. Having an excess of yellow or green is visually unappealing just from a pure art perspective. Fortunately the scenery actually retains it's own colors, so you get a nice contrast with metallic reds and greys. They did not commit the foul that some game designers seem oblivious to: stick a green filter on something to convey "murk" (but instead just make it all look like puke) like a bunch of zones in World of Warcraft still loving do for some reason.
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Sep 22, 2015 09:08
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Dravanian Forelands was my favourite zone to go through while levelling. The high ridges and narrow paths always kept a lot out of sight, so it felt like exploring whenever you came across something new. Flying over it now and seeing it all at once is kind of depressing.
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Sep 22, 2015 13:31
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Dravanian Hinterlands was my favorite zone. I liked everything about it, particularly how it wasn't a giant pain to get around in on a ground mount.
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Sep 22, 2015 14:07
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you enjoyed the whole run into Idleshire, run to the guy outside near the spiderwasps, run back into idleshire, back out to the guy near the wasps, back into idle...?
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Sep 22, 2015 14:14
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