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Nostalgia4Butts posted:europe really hates immigrants right now It's not just now. Europe has been racist as gently caress for a long long time. As have we in the US, of course.
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Sep 29, 2015 01:37
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Nostalgia4Butts posted:europe really hates immigrants right now People are often unkind to large groups of immigrants, to say the least. US history with regards to immigration is a whole bunch of "new group of europeans come over, get poo poo on, gradually assimilate, poo poo on next group to come over". Add in fear of the middle-east and Islam and you get this.
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Sep 29, 2015 01:39
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You would be hard pressed to find, throughout all human history, a country as welcoming to immigrants as the United States has been over the last 200 years.
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Sep 29, 2015 01:57
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Irish Joe posted:You would be hard pressed to find, throughout all human history, a country as welcoming to immigrants as the United States has been over the last 200 years. To be honest they really have not been
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Sep 29, 2015 02:00
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Irish Joe posted:You would be hard pressed to find, throughout all human history, a country as welcoming to immigrants as the United States has been over the last 200 years. Even if I take you for your word, it still goes to show how people will always feel at least uneasy over a large influx of foreigners. Motto fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 02:17
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Irish Joe posted:You would be hard pressed to find, throughout all human history, a country as welcoming to immigrants as the United States has been over the last 200 years. I can't tell if you're serious or making a joke. Even when we were all about immigrants we treated them like poo poo and everyone had a "gently caress the Irish and gently caress Italians" attitude right back in our biggest period of immigration. That's not even taking into account the way we treated people that weren't from Europe.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:27
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For the love of Christ people, stop taking Irish Joe seriously.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:31
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Relentlessboredomm posted:Great episode but I hadn't heard about that camerawoman. Who the gently caress kicks a child? What kind of loving supervillian are you? There are very few things that would genuinely lead me to violence but watching a woman kick migrant children running from their terrible oppressive countries is definitely near the top. At least one of the kids she kicked got a pretty good experience out of it:  http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...r-10510604.html And his dad got a job as a football coach in Spain.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:32
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Well it seems like there are very few facts that immigration, or immigrants, are bad for a country in any way. Many facts and studies show that immigration has positive effects. The majority of people opposed to immigration must therefore be that way due to ignorance or racism. Show related - I didn't really think the Days of our Lives deal was very funny at all (his monologue bit or the skit), but when they spoke directly to the girl it gave me the feels so it was aight in my book.
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Sep 29, 2015 02:42
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Pews posted:Well it seems like there are very few facts that immigration, or immigrants, are bad for a country in any way. Many facts and studies show that immigration has positive effects. The majority of people opposed to immigration must therefore be that way due to ignorance or racism. Yea weird it's almost like a stream of citizens who are actively choosing to make their home in a nation tends to result in those people wanting the nation to be doing well or something. Like, it's such an absurd idea that these people are making a long, dangerous, journey to get a free apartment and just pop a squat with a resounding 'mission accomplished, we never shall do anything else, come children, you will live in this lovely government housing and raise your own babies in it, this is my legacy of turds to you'. Like even if you 100% think the filthy unwashed poor are just lazy moochers...the war isn't magically just hurting the poor. Nice middle class and even well off Syrians are getting their houses blown up, or fearing the draft, or just generally going 'hm, country's going to hell, probably don't want to stay here and see how this plays out'. These are people who want or already have education who want to continue their lifestyle they were used to at home.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:01
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Blazing Ownager posted:Even when we were all about immigrants we treated them like poo poo and everyone had a "gently caress the Irish and gently caress Italians" attitude right back in our biggest period of immigration. That's not even taking into account the way we treated people that weren't from Europe. Nothing can live up to the standards of the ideal society you have in your head. My point was only that, when faced with an influx of immigration, America has a tremendously welcoming record compared to other REAL societies throughout history. Hell, I sincerely doubt a single person in this thread would be as welcoming individually as we have been collectively, as a society, to outsiders on their doorstep.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:01
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So semi serious question, how many refugees are being taken in here in the States? I've heard immigrating here as a refugee is tough, I worked with a bunch of Kosovar refugees as a kid in the 90s and the work they had to do to get here was incredible. But man, they loved America more than an apple pie shaped like a bald eagle. What I'm saying is, we need to encourage people getting kicked by camerawomen in hungary to come here because its the right thing to do.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:26
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If you can marry somebody, immigration to the US is easy. If you can land an H1-B (so, if you're either a programmer or "a fashion model of international renown"), immigration to the US is easy. If you have family members stateside, immigration to the US is possible. Anything else and you're basically SOL. Even Mr Oliver himself tells a story about getting held up at the border by a guard who thought it would be funny to make him poo poo himself. He'd been visiting family in the UK, was working for Daily Show, and was legitimately frightened of getting turned away at the border.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:39
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axeil posted:So semi serious question, how many refugees are being taken in here in the States? I've heard immigrating here as a refugee is tough, I worked with a bunch of Kosovar refugees as a kid in the 90s and the work they had to do to get here was incredible. As a matter of fact, Barry O had some words with Twitter about that today. He mentioned providing $4.5B in humanitarian aid, and is increasing the number of refugees admitted into the U.S. to 100,000 a year for the next two years. He also encouraged everyone to head over to AidRefugees.gov to find out how they, personally, could help.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:39
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Irish Joe posted:Nothing can live up to the standards of the ideal society you have in your head. My point was only that, when faced with an influx of immigration, America has a tremendously welcoming record compared to other REAL societies throughout history. It feels weird to be agreeing with Irish Joe here, but the issue is that while individual Americans might be anti-immigration and complain about them coming and taking their jobs or whatever, the government (and thus official policy) has been incredibly pro-immigration throughout most of US history. It's cooled recently, sure, but the US was absolutely a country built on mass immigration during a time when most other countries found the idea of letting people just COME IN and be a citizen unthinkable.
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Sep 29, 2015 03:47
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axeil posted:So semi serious question, how many refugees are being taken in here in the States? like less than a thousand we are apparently providing heavy financial aid though
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Sep 29, 2015 03:47
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Toxxupation posted:like less than a thousand Actualy, we have pledged to take in 10-15k more or so per year up to 100k in 2017. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/21/world/europe/us-to-increase-admission-of-refugees-to-100000-in-2017-kerry-says.html This one is the EU's problem not because of our apathy, but because it's on their doorstep (now, we caused the whole loving problem with our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but that's not what anyone is asking). And as John said, several EU countries should be glad of the influx. In addition to Germany most of Scandinavia is welcoming the immigration boom.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:20
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Yeah the main issue with the US taking in refugees is simply logistics. They're in the middle of a country and nowhere near us. I'm sure there would be some other horrible thing if that wasn't the problem, but for the moment that's the problem.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:27
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Suddenly poo poo gets bleeped again.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:34
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IRQ posted:And as John said, several EU countries should be glad of the influx. In addition to Germany most of Scandinavia is welcoming the immigration boom. Uh, no. It's pretty much just Sweden at this point. Norway is doing their best to imitate Denmark.
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Sep 29, 2015 04:37
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IRQ posted:In addition to Germany most of Scandinavia is welcoming the immigration boom. Is this same Scandinvia that they literally just showed in the episode taking out full page ads in newspapers attempting to drive people away?
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Sep 29, 2015 04:52
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The Cheshire Cat posted:It feels weird to be agreeing with Irish Joe here, but the issue is that while individual Americans might be anti-immigration and complain about them coming and taking their jobs or whatever, the government (and thus official policy) has been incredibly pro-immigration throughout most of US history. It's cooled recently, sure, but the US was absolutely a country built on mass immigration during a time when most other countries found the idea of letting people just COME IN and be a citizen unthinkable. Erm, kind of. We also have a very long history of being jerks about immigration. It's the American way.
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Sep 29, 2015 06:53
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Nageen got to see the clip. http://abcnews.go.com/International/soap-opera-stars-make-syrian-refugees-dream-true/story?id=34111914 quote:ABC News got the video to Nageen, who is currently in a refugee camp in Essen, Germany, and she was ecstatic.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:07
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Good that at least a few good things came out of that story. Now I don't watch a lot of soaps, so how plausible is that explanation he gave for coming back from the dead?
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Sep 29, 2015 07:24
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Xoidanor posted:Uh, no. It's pretty much just Sweden at this point. Norway is doing their best to imitate Denmark. My bad, I thought Denmark was the outlier rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:31
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Gnome de plume posted:Good that at least a few good things came out of that story. In soap opera land its actually too believable.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:39
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Gnome de plume posted:Good that at least a few good things came out of that story. Coming back from the dead is a weekly occurrence.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:46
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Part of it, aside of perception (particularly of the short term consequences), is the timing, though in turn perception or what the timing means. A lot of nations in Europe are still struggling financially because of the crunch, and so the idea of governments being called on to shelter potentially hundreds of thousands of people when theyre struggling to care for their own populations really pisses off nationalists and the like. Of course, there is a difference between 'out of work and the welfare doesn't go far enough' and 'literally fleeing a warzone'. Germany's sympathies in this regard end up kinda obvious once you realise most people of working age - especially Merkel - has living memory of not dissimilar experience.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:50
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Has anyone gotten that girl's reaction yet? I don't know how insensitive this question is like if she's in a hungarian holding facility I don't think they'd tell her she was mentioned on foreign tv but maybe she made it to Germany?
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Sep 29, 2015 07:51
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Krinkle posted:Has anyone gotten that girl's reaction yet? I don't know how insensitive this question is like if she's in a hungarian holding facility I don't think they'd tell her she was mentioned on foreign tv but maybe she made it to Germany? Chand0X posted:Nageen got to see the clip.
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Sep 29, 2015 07:54
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Propaganda Machine posted:If you can marry somebody, immigration to the US is easy. Ehhhh best case scenario is my immigration will take about 6-8 months from what I can tell. I've got to go to medicals and interviews in London (4 hours away on the bus) and they can delay or decline me for any reason they want to. It'll be worth it, but immigration to the US is really difficult and I'm lucky that I'm in the position that's probably the easiest. Yet it's still an arseache. (It's also NOTHING compared to what these poor people are going through). If I wanted to go anywhere in Europe, there's not much really stopping me. I'm kind of looking forward to getting in conversations where people will be outwardly moaning about immigrants, forgetting that I'll be one too. I shall compile the Top 5 back pedals, all of which will be code for 'but you're white'.
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Sep 29, 2015 11:52
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Shame John closed the church down because he just brought someone back from the dead. That'd get him a lot of Seed.
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Sep 29, 2015 12:04
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Nageen is an angel. I hope she lives a long and happy life. She really lifted the spirit of the main segment of the show. The immigration crisis is just so sad and depressing. Nageen and the muslim beaver made me smile.
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Sep 29, 2015 12:10
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Irish Joe posted:Nothing can live up to the standards of the ideal society you have in your head. My point was only that, when faced with an influx of immigration, America has a tremendously welcoming record compared to other REAL societies throughout history. You're right, the Native Americans were pretty welcoming at first, weren't they? Don't you guys have a whole holiday based around that?
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Sep 29, 2015 12:27
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Laverna posted:You're right, the Native Americans were pretty welcoming at first, weren't they? Don't you guys have a whole holiday based around that? This feels relevant: 
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Sep 29, 2015 12:52
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Propaganda Machine posted:If you can marry somebody, immigration to the US is easy. This reminds me of a discussion I had with my wife recently (we're Canadian). She used to be married to a US citizen, and was on her way to getting her green card when they divorced, she moved back to Canada, and forfeited it legally to avoid any trouble. So, she knows a lot about how the system works, and I was blown away by just how difficult it would be for me, a white, 30-something, technically-skilled able-bodied English-speaking male to become a US citizen (without family ties or being hired by a company there or anything), and goddamn 
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Sep 29, 2015 13:02
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Americans and Refugees are not the strongest match (the rhetoric from Europe is exactly what Reagan et all said about Central Americans in the 80s) but we are also not nearly as white supremacist as Europe so integration is easier and quicker.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:41
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Laverna posted:You're right, the Native Americans were pretty welcoming at first, weren't they? Don't you guys have a whole holiday based around that? It varied depending on tribe, but the Indian example is a perfect case in point as to why any group should be wary of letting in outsiders who don't share their core values.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:53
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Laverna posted:You're right, the Native Americans were pretty welcoming at first, weren't they? Don't you guys have a whole holiday based around that? To put this in a Non Irish Joe way, don't do this. Native Americans were still human beings- there were good tribes, and there were tribes who could be racist assholes. And to be fair some of those more welcoming tribes learned to be racist assholes BECAUSE of settlers, but that's neither here nor there. Basically people are alike the world over. Unless you live in Japan, where no one but uber nerds nowadays tries to immigrate to. HEY JAPAN HOW'S YOUR POPULATION DOING
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Sep 29, 2015 15:53
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Burkion posted:To put this in a Non Irish Joe way, don't do this. Native Americans were still human beings- there were good tribes, and there were tribes who could be racist assholes. What's the dig at Japan? Are they especially racist? Asking for info here, I have no idea where this remark came from.
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Sep 29, 2015 16:40
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