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I mean it's not like it's the second biggest religious tradition in the world, but hey! They're the enemy now!
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Sep 29, 2015 13:35
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I really don't see what's wrong with a country saying "Our culture is X, we only want people who share our values, if you don't bugger off". Or as one of the greatest Australian leaders said (to huge applause)quote:we will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come That said, I wouldn't have a problem with increased Muslim refugees so long as measures were taken to avoid the troublemakers. If you get caught committing a nontrivial crime, you get booted out. Zero allowance made for "cultural differences" or "traumatic past experiences". Freedom of movement should be curtailed to avoid ghettos and an official assimilation policy should be in place. You're guests, not citizens, and should behave as such. You would have to earn your keep as well - For a few years you would be assigned various unpaid tasks such as picking up rubbish, cleaning graffiti, picking fruit etc. Obviously you would be free (and encouraged) to leave at any time.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:42
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Yes let's follow the model of Australia, the country with concentration camps for minorities and which proudly advertises that fact so people will stay away.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:43
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it's working really well and both parties compete to be tougher on boats.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:45
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tumblr.txt posted:it's working really well and both parties compete to be tougher on boats. Not everyone wants to be an unabashed racist, though.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:57
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It's tough being a boat in this day and age.Ligur posted:These race -dudes sure are quality posters with a great array of arguments, or anything to say to begin with I did they but then you cried about me making fun of you in the same post and called it 'trolling' so... But then hey I'm talking about the person who complains how the Somalian brown people are less productive than the other brown people for SOME REASON* the you're not sure about**. *racial discrimination **are well aware of but realise admitting it would admit you're racist and spoil the gimmick Also dadchat thread wants you to participate in the chill friendship zone. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 29, 2015 13:58
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Sound arguments for concentration camps from Australia here. Hell, why didn't we think of it first! If only we had made conditions for those filthy Muslim war refugees horrible enough that they'd choose to die in their own countries rather than ours, all this mess could've been avoided. Yeah! No better way to integrate them people than to brutally oppress and murder them in large quantities either.
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Sep 29, 2015 13:59
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Jesus wept.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:00
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This thread is not so much (no homo) as (no hitler).
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Sep 29, 2015 14:00
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You see, they don't share our values of tolerance and liberty and they are also infidels so it's ok to put them in literal death camps with no food, water, sanitation or shelter.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:01
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For the record I am strongly in favor of allowing people currently in the camps to come to Australia and labor for a few years in exchange for citizenship. At least that way we get something out of it. e: They're not actually death camps, maybe rape camps at worst.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:02
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That's very generous of you.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:02
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Starshark posted:Not everyone wants to be an unabashed racist, though.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:04
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You mean notable radical Marxist-Leninist Comrade Malcolm Turnbull doesn't believe in being nice to the refugees??
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Sep 29, 2015 14:07
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tumblr.txt posted:You do know Turnbull supports that policy as well right? What's the difference between Turnbull and Abbott besides that one can string a sentence together and manage to keep God out of politics?
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Sep 29, 2015 14:09
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I have to wonder under what scenario people see Europe having to accept enough refugees that our economy will "crash"? Let's look at the situation. The current number of people who have come through the route this year is a bit over half a million. Half a million. With the borders open, with complete chaos inside the EU, with no preparation or measures in advance whatsoever, complete scrapping of any unified patrolling of the Mediterranean and complete lack of co-operation with Turkey and other refugee hosting countries, and half a million refugees made it here across the Mediterranean. I mean it's probably a smaller number if you consider the few percentages of economic migrants among them, but half a million is a nice round number so let's stick with that. Do you know how many refugees that is? Do you know how many refugees found the means, the money, and the knowledge to make this trip? 0.8 percent. With virtually no obstacles to getting here, less then one in hundred refugees were able to leverage the opportunity. Do people think that every refugee of the world is just holding on to thousands of dollars or has a relative willing to loan it to them, or has any possible means to gather it? Because it's $2000-$5000 per person. Syrian refugees form the vast majority of people coming because unlike the vast majority of refugees in the world, they had a considerable middle class. But that's not the majority of Syrians or the majority of refugees. The country's median wage before the crisis started was $255, now its even less then that. Furthermore, do people think this situation will stay as it is for eternity? That the huge countries of Europe are going to stand paralyzed in front such massive power-players like Hungary or Slovakia? Because they aren't. Things are happening. Not fast enough, not anywhere near as fast as we would want, but things are happening. Things like stepping up co-operation with Turkey, providing more resources to border control and getting an actual Mediterranean patrol operation going are relatively easy sells in the grand scheme of things and are also something that will stem the number of refugees coming in here the fastest. And they're being done! So really, it is highly unlikely that Europe will have to take care of more then a million or two at best. Like even if the tide continued more or less unabated and nothing would be done it would be a long time that we would even hit that, and it is not what is happening right now. It will have little effect on the economy of the countries if the population is divided equally. It will have an effect but again, unless you are an hysteric entitled hypocrite it will not be even noticeable compared to the effects hosting refugees has on the rest of the world. A small increase in taxes is a sufficient price to pay for doing the part you are legally and morally entitled to do (again, even if we weren't held by international laws and treaties, we have been nagging the rest of the world to follow them for eternity in a constant basis). And most countries and most people see that, which is why only an unimportant minority of people who don't know anything about the situation are the ones angrily panicking about it. Rest are trying to look for actual solutions even if they don't like what is happening. The refugees of the world can't, won't and aren't actually coming to Europe. A little bit of them are because a little bit of them have the cash to do that. Some people should really try to understand that we live in a global capitalistic society and even refugee movement is determined by that, stop freaking out over Europe's population maybe increasing by like a third of a percentage short term, and deal with it. Most of the world as you see already is dealing with it. DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 14:10
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Starshark posted:What's the difference between Turnbull and Abbott besides that one can string a sentence together and manage to keep God out of politics? You tell me, you're the Turnbull man, as if he's any better.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:17
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tumblr.txt posted:You tell me, you're the Turnbull man, as if he's any better. I don't support Turnbull. Someone bought this for me during the spill and since I have avs off I have no reason to change it.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:18
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Ligur posted:Agreed that is probably something which a powerhouse like Germany can handle. Finland has a higher GDP per capita than Germany. You are very well able to shoulder a fair percentage of the influx. However tbf, if the average Finn is anything like you (which is not my experience) I wouldn't recommend a refugee to go there.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:28
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Please don't hold Ligur against all of us. People like him aren't really tolerated in polite company.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:31
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So is he literally the kind of troll-under-the-bridge that posts so stupidly on internet forums because no-one else pays attention to him back in Finland?
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Sep 29, 2015 14:33
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Tesseraction posted:So is he literally the kind of troll-under-the-bridge that posts so stupidly on internet forums because no-one else pays attention to him back in Finland? Outside freep-lite sites like hommaforum, pretty much yeah. Although Persut did make it into the government and much of their support came from people like Ligur. 17,7% of the vote (70% turnout) is quite high I suppose, though how much of that came from race realists, and how much from disenfranchised workers sick of the Left-wing parties ignoring their natural base, is anybody's guess.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:42
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Mordekai posted:The majority of asylum seekers are young men. Surely young men should want to meet the face of danger head on, not flee from it. Cowards, the lot of them!
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Sep 29, 2015 14:52
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The problem is that you're taking a perspective that's focused only on Europe. Go to the US and start talking about how immigrants are lazy, and you'll just get shut down. US Agribusiness wouldn't work today without the low wages that they're demanding, the entire industry is predicated on migrants not 'being lazy'. The US & Canada do not have the same disparities as Europe w.r.t migrant employment, and even within europe the extent of it depends on where you are. But okay, let's talk policy. There are a couple of big things that can be done. Language acquisition is imperative. Punish those that refuse to learn the local language, but give everyone good access to resources to get them learning it (But let's be real here: English is the only real language anyone needs, and the sooner certain French-and-other-Eurotrash countries realize this, the better). Upskilling unskilled workers is generally a good idea, but with migrants you've got real cases of untapped potential, because they're not always going to be able to transfer their qualifications they may have had. I'm going to diverge from what others have said and say that bilingual schools are actually a trash idea, that you're better off getting them learning the local language, then shoving the kids into the normal school system. Concerns of the particularities of Islamic immigrants are overblown when you compare the same rhetoric to old anti-catholic propaganda in the US. The biggest causes of radicalization are social, not cultural, and you'll find disenfranchised Buddhists can be just as dangerous as disenfranchised Muslims. The biggest thing to remember is that muslims, like most people, are normal, which means their concerns are, in order of importance: 1) getting food on their table 2) meeting with friends 3) the ending to game of thrones 4) maybe politics. Secret plans to overthrow the EU and establish the Eurabiastan caliphate isn't on that list, that's mostly the domain of shut-in paranoid retards, so basically the muslim versions of you, ligur.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:53
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tumblr.txt posted:Because it's regressive as gently caress. If you don't like homophobia and are pro-feminist, Islam is your enemy. This is true, but here's the thing: Refugees aren't Islam, they're refugees.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:57
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rudatron posted:Concerns of the particularities of Islamic immigrants are overblown when you compare the same rhetoric to old anti-catholic propaganda in the US. The biggest causes of radicalization are social, not cultural, and you'll find disenfranchised Buddhists can be just as dangerous as disenfranchised Muslims. The biggest thing to remember is that muslims, like most people, are normal, which means their concerns are, in order of importance: 1) getting food on their table 2) meeting with friends 3) the ending to game of thrones 4) maybe politics. Secret plans to overthrow the EU and establish the Eurabiastan caliphate isn't on that list, that's mostly the domain of shut-in paranoid retards, so basically the muslim versions of you, ligur. Basically this. Most, if not all, of these people fleeing just want a return to a normal life and some semblance of normalcy. Most of these people used to live in a fairly modern middle class lifestyle, and they want a return to that and not having to face possible death every day from one side or the other. And they are willing to risk possible death to get back to a normal life.
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Sep 29, 2015 14:59
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computer parts posted:Yes let's follow the model of Australia, the country with concentration camps for minorities and which proudly advertises that fact so people will stay away. Europe actually used to follow Australia's rape camp model. We paid Gaddafi to keep Sub-Saharan migrants in Libya.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:02
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tumblr.txt posted:Women and kids generally aren't the ones causing trouble and you know it. In the sense that they are less likely to kill somebody, yeah, but I believe Muslim women raised in Islamic environment tend to be more socially and politically conservative than their male counterparts, so maybe they present an equal or greater risk, however minute it may be in absolute individual value, in a wider, long term context.
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Sep 29, 2015 15:15
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Truga posted:This is true, but here's the thing: Refugees aren't Islam, they're refugees. But apostasy is punishable by stoning... what happens if they becomes moderates and agnostics and they get stoned in public, leading to a breakout of serial stoning sprees by Muslims gone batshit crazy? How many mall stonings can go on before we realise that Islamics are feral sand jackals held back from murdering the west only by the valiant efforts of the people sitting in armchairs talking about how dangerous starving refugees are?
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Sep 29, 2015 15:16
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jonnypeh posted:By that I meant putting them onto trucks in middle of the night to take to camps far away to die. That's why I asked. "The secularism." You make it sound like mustard gas.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:14
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Friendly Tumour posted:I mean it's not like it's the second biggest religious tradition in the world, but hey! They're the enemy now! I see this argument in the form of "Islam can't be bad overall because it is the world's second largest religion" and it has never made sense.why doe an ideology gain any virtue or acceptability simply because a large number of people practice it? SedanChair posted:"The secularism." You make it sound like mustard gas. more like an antibiotic.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:21
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Tesseraction posted:But apostasy is punishable by stoning... what happens if they becomes moderates and agnostics and they get stoned in public, leading to a breakout of serial stoning sprees by Muslims gone batshit crazy? How many mall stonings can go on before we realise that Islamics are feral sand jackals held back from murdering the west only by the valiant efforts of the people sitting in armchairs talking about how dangerous starving refugees are? I understand the danger inherent in dehumanizing groups of people,but very recently we have already seena group of religious refugees go, for lack of a better word, "feral", attempting to when a man en masse in response to a koran being disrespected. it is unfortunate that these people are in such a desperate situation, but you can't deny that some of them hold an ideology that makes them a danger to everyone around them, and the Middle Eastern culture as a whole is tolerant if not supportive of this. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 29, 2015 17:29
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Liberal_L33t posted:I see this argument in the form of "Islam can't be bad overall because it is the world's second largest religion" and it has never made sense.why doe an ideology gain any virtue or acceptability simply because a large number of people practice it? Are you honestly asking me to explain the virtue of religious tolerance? Is this a test, or are you this thick? Next up, clash of the civilizations... loving hell
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Sep 29, 2015 17:37
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Liberal_L33t posted:I understand the danger inherent in dehumanizing groups of people,but very recently we have already seena group of religious refugees go, for lack of a better word, "feral", attempting to when a man en masse in response to a koran being disrespected. it is unfortunate that these people are in such a desperate situation, but you can't deny that some of them hold an ideology that makes them a danger to everyone around them, and the Middle Eastern culture as a whole is tolerant if not supportive of this. ......yyyyeeeeaaaahhhh. Big wide brush strokes. That'll do it.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:39
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Friendly Tumour posted:Are you honestly asking me to explain the virtue of religious tolerance? Is this a test, or are you this thick? Secularism is a prerequisite to sustainable religious tolerance. it is a form of social contract. Religions which reject secularism (which is a primarily political, not theological matter) should expect resistance to their efforts to create new religious communities withinnations that practise secularism.
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Sep 29, 2015 17:57
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Liberal_L33t posted:Secularism is a prerequisite to sustainable religious tolerance. it is a form of social contract. Religions which reject secularism (which is a primarily political, not theological matter) should expect resistance to their efforts to create new religious communities nations that practise secularism. Because you are going to make them more secular by rejecting their refugees. Right. You realize this sort of mindset is the root cause of so many of the Middle East issues, right? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 17:58
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Can Islam accommodate secularism? And, if not, can you please travel in time back to Baghdad at its height and explain why it is a mirage created by the shifting sands?
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Sep 29, 2015 18:00
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Liberal_L33t posted:Secularism is a prerequisite to sustainable religious tolerance. it is a form of social contract. Religions which reject secularism (which is a primarily political, not theological matter) should expect resistance to their efforts to create new religious communities withinnations that practise secularism. No. You don't get to make this poo poo up as you go along. gently caress you.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:03
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Friendly Tumour posted:No. You don't get to make this poo poo up as you go along. gently caress you. Why is secularism not a requisite of countries which have secularism enshrined in their constitutional order?
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Sep 29, 2015 18:12
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SedanChair posted:Can Islam accommodate secularism? And, if not, can you please travel in time back to Baghdad at its height and explain why it is a mirage created by the shifting sands? I was under the impression Baghdad wasn't particularly sandy, but aside from that, just because it was less horrible then the state of religious toleration in Europe at the time, doesn't mean it would be remotely acceptable by modern standards. Friendly Tumour posted:No. You don't get to make this poo poo up as you go along. gently caress you. care to elaborate? I'm not sure how to respond to this.
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Sep 29, 2015 18:12
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