Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Deviant posted:

I didn't stand in any line. They had them restocked day two.

Then shame on you for not buying two and sending one to me.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


PaybackJack posted:

Then shame on you for not buying two and sending one to me.

It was karma for standing in the FFG line for 3 hours.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Deviant posted:

It was karma for standing in the FFG line for 3 hours.

So you're saying you didn't buy me three copies of GoT, Imperial Entanglements and the Great Devourer either.

Sheesh.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Odd request, but does anyone have an extra Cheatin' Varmint lying around? I lost one.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

We got two new pieces of fiction for Gencon that each have a bonus casualty not mentioned in the GenCon report.

First we have Morgan v. 4th Ring, which isn't as offensively bad as the Scoop Hound piece was. That's a good thing, right? Richard Slavin appears to have outlived his usefulness.

Second is Law Dogs v. Sloane, which makes Scoop Hound look incredibly competent by comparison. It's awful-bad. Sheriff Dave has been ventilated.

I got my Jokers in the mail the other day. Thanks again, Payback Jack!

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!
I thought they were both alright. You can definitely tell the Jon Arroz stuff is not as good as the other guy doing the writing. The 4th Ring/Morgan fight was hard to follow without them using the names of all the people, I wasn't even really sure at what point Slade went down.

Cool that Sloane came out on top considering she lost three more men in this scuffle. It feels like they're not playing favorites like they do in L5R sometimes, so that was nice. I kind of expected to have a plot-shield around him for a while. I think Wendy will have a be a long running character though.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Wendy really should take over.


But I wouldn't be mad if Blackjack came out of retirement.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Couple of IOUF articles.

http://www.alderac.com/doomtown/2015/08/19/iouf-feature-raking-dragons/


http://www.alderac.com/doomtown/2015/08/26/iouf-feature-sarah-meoquanee/

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
So the new factions are shipping, thoughts?

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

So the new factions are shipping, thoughts?

I can't wait. I don't know what the poo poo to do with the old factions anymore, so much so that I didn't even take the last set out of the box except to fan through the cards. Building a deck is really overwhelming with all the options available and keeping the draw structure in mind. I keep looking through cards and knowing what I want to put in the deck, but if I play what I want then I'll never win a shootout. So I'm looking forward to a fresh start with a new faction, who, since the card pool for them is so small, the deck will kind of shape itself.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!
My friend who got it early says he doesn't feel that Kung Fu combos are powerful enough. I'm not sure I believe him because from what I can see its the Totems and Eagle Wardens that aren't going to be able stand up to anything.

I didn't see Kung Fu as being super powerful right out of the gate but it looked like it would fit in nicely with a straight flush build that went a little higher than most Sloane builds but not as high as a LD might go.

LifeLynx
Feb 27, 2001

Dang so this is like looking over his shoulder in real-time
Grimey Drawer
Figuring out starting dudes for Eagle Wardens is rough. You don't have enough money to do both the high-influence route AND the shaman-route, so you gotta pick one of their themes and go with it. Meanwhile, I think the Bandits have the A-2-3 kung fu strategy that almost builds itself.

Am I the only one who refuses, perhaps stubbornly, to play out-of-faction dudes? I keep seeing deck lists where half the dudes are from Fourth Ring, and I discard it as an idea I'm never going to try. Maybe it's a necessary evil when the new factions are sort of limited in their dudes and values, but I even see it somewhat in original factions. Just goes against the spirit of the thing in my opinion. Plus I know I'll forget the extra upkeep.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


I still need to pick up the set. I'm dying to do some Eagle wardening.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

BJPaskoff posted:

Figuring out starting dudes for Eagle Wardens is rough. You don't have enough money to do both the high-influence route AND the shaman-route, so you gotta pick one of their themes and go with it. Meanwhile, I think the Bandits have the A-2-3 kung fu strategy that almost builds itself.

Am I the only one who refuses, perhaps stubbornly, to play out-of-faction dudes? I keep seeing deck lists where half the dudes are from Fourth Ring, and I discard it as an idea I'm never going to try. Maybe it's a necessary evil when the new factions are sort of limited in their dudes and values, but I even see it somewhat in original factions. Just goes against the spirit of the thing in my opinion. Plus I know I'll forget the extra upkeep.

Non loyal characters in other factions is not an uncommon thing and actually makes for cool story changes when the story team sees it happen a lot. Using other characters in L5R would occasionally lead to those characters actually jumping ship to the other faction. Used to happen more back in the day, but the point is that those types of things are not super out of place and if they didn't want you using those characters they'd be loyal. Now unforunately with 4R being so drat good, the fact that you can pick up a few of their hucksters and throw them into Morgan as backup casters and make Morgan playable by puppeting it into a hex deck is ridiculous but put Allie Hensman in any deck that isn't pulling for high values.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
The problem is that 4th Ring is too good, IMO. At least Alderac seems to be aware of it.

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Sep 21, 2015

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

The problem is that 4th Ring is too good, IMO. At least Alderac seems to be aware of it.

Speaking of which...



He's got a decent pull value and influence, and offers an interesting incentive for Oddities of Nature to try the Mystic Gadget angle and further embed their clown horde in the center of town. Now we just need something for him to build besides Devil-in-the-Boxes and Clown Carriages.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Father Wendigo posted:

Speaking of which...



He's got a decent pull value and influence, and offers an interesting incentive for Oddities of Nature to try the Mystic Gadget angle and further embed their clown horde in the center of town. Now we just need something for him to build besides Devil-in-the-Boxes and Clown Carriages.

Holy Wheel Guns? Soul Cage isn't bad for getting Pags back.

Also I don't think 4R is the problem so much as Paralysis Mark and Blood Curse are really good. Puppet probably makes that list as well just given how high those decks pull.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 21, 2015

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

PaybackJack posted:

Holy Wheel Guns? Soul Cage isn't bad for getting Pags back.

Also I don't think 4R is the problem so much as Paralysis Mark and Blood Curse are really good. Puppet probably makes that list as well just given how high those decks pull.

I was going to say that Holy Wheel Guns were unique, but checked again to be sure; they're not! That's a solid choice for pumping GG or even Mr. Miss. However, Soul Cages are just Mystical goods. Dab's text says he can only trade Mystical Gadgets, which is (thankfully) limited.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


Can I get some thoughts on this A-2-3 108 Bandits Deck?

quote:

Dude (14)
1x Abuelita Espinoza* (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Allie Hensman (Base Set)
1x Bai Yang Chen* (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Benjamin Washington* (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Daomei Wang (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Jake Smiley (Election Day Slaughter)
2x Longwei Fu (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Olivia Jenks (Base Set)
2x Ramiro Mendoza (Base Set)
1x Randall (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Xiaodan Li* (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
1x Xui Yin Chen* (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)

Deed (12)
1x Bank of California (Base Set)
1x Gomorra Parish (Base Set)
1x Hustings (Double Dealin')
3x Pettigrew’s Pawnshop (Faith and Fear)
2x Pony Express (Base Set)
1x The Mayor's Office (Election Day Slaughter)
2x Yan Li's Tailoring (Base Set)
1x 1st Baptist Church (Base Set)

Goods (10)
2x Bluetick (Base Set)
2x Nunchucks (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
4x Pair of Six-Shooters (Base Set)
2x Shotgun (Base Set)

Action (16)
2x Hot Lead Flyin' (Base Set)
2x Rabbit's Lunar Leap (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
4x Raking Dragons (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
4x Shifu Speaks (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)
4x Zhu's Ferocity (Immovable Object, Unstoppable Force)

The idea is to start up the powerful upkeep dudes, pay for them turn 1 using Benjamin, then get hyper aggressive with them, while also throwing down a few deeds to cover the expenses on subsequent turns. Six Shooters are defense against flight of the lepus.

It's designed to be highly aggressive, and kinda falls flat otherwise I think?

Deviant fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Sep 22, 2015

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Deviant posted:

Can I get some thoughts on this A-2-3 108 Bandits Deck?


The idea is to start up the powerful upkeep dudes, pay for them turn 1 using Benjamin, then get hyper aggressive with them, while also throwing down a few deeds to cover the expenses on subsequent turns. Six Shooters are defense against flight of the lepus.

It's designed to be highly aggressive, and kinda falls flat otherwise I think?

Could work, Hyper Aggression needs more shootout actions though. You also have no cheating punishment and that's a no-no especially in a hyper aggression deck because the only people who are fighting you are going to be ones that feel the strength of their draw is good enough to do so, which probably means a 3x16 type build.

I'm also totally in love with Straight Flush builds at the moment, hitting your stride mid game and pulling a ton of legal high hands is so nice.

Deviant
Sep 26, 2003

i've forgotten all of your names.


PaybackJack posted:

Could work, Hyper Aggression needs more shootout actions though. You also have no cheating punishment and that's a no-no especially in a hyper aggression deck because the only people who are fighting you are going to be ones that feel the strength of their draw is good enough to do so, which probably means a 3x16 type build.

I'm also totally in love with Straight Flush builds at the moment, hitting your stride mid game and pulling a ton of legal high hands is so nice.

These are great points, but I'm so tight for card space as is, I'm not sure what I'd cut.

Aramoro
Jun 1, 2012




Deviant posted:

These are great points, but I'm so tight for card space as is, I'm not sure what I'd cut.

I had expected to see Legendary Holster in there with the nunchucks but deck space is tight to retain your draw structure so I can see why they're not.

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Speaking of the 108, the next preview is up:



The bullets and influence are nice, but the ability seems to be a bit at odds with 108's action heavy deck economy. I could see him getting dipped by whichever faction gets deck manipulation/stacking, should that become a thing.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012


Woo! Finally picked up IO,UF!

fozzy fosbourne
Apr 21, 2010

Anyone have any favorite articles about some of the universal strategies in the game? Less interested in stuff like specific card evaluation or deck building, and more like articles describing paths to victory, the tempo of a game, some basic heuristics to follow, etc. Sort of like Who's the Beatdown for Magic, or some of the early Alexfrog stuff for Netrunner about the major phases of the game, scoring windows, taxing vs etr ice, etc

We've learned the rules and followed the demo but are a little uncertain about things like what should we be doing at various points during the game, what is a good play, who is winning, etc. We'll keep pulling levers and pressing buttons until we figure it out, but as I introduce it to more players it would be nice to have a primer handy

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

fozzy fosbourne posted:

Anyone have any favorite articles about some of the universal strategies in the game? Less interested in stuff like specific card evaluation or deck building, and more like articles describing paths to victory, the tempo of a game, some basic heuristics to follow, etc. Sort of like Who's the Beatdown for Magic, or some of the early Alexfrog stuff for Netrunner about the major phases of the game, scoring windows, taxing vs etr ice, etc

We've learned the rules and followed the demo but are a little uncertain about things like what should we be doing at various points during the game, what is a good play, who is winning, etc. We'll keep pulling levers and pressing buttons until we figure it out, but as I introduce it to more players it would be nice to have a primer handy

I never really read anything like that specifically, and article on the main AEG site will usually spotlight a couple cards in addition to talking how the strategy. You might try Gomorra Gazette articles, there could be on there from the early days talking about general strategy.

I did a write up a while back on Facebook where I basically talked about 4 archetypes of most cards games as they exist in Doomtown, I'll try to remember it here for you.

Essentially I think in any game you've got 2 axis Aggression/Defense and Active/Passive. From these you can come up with your agro decks which would be active+aggression or passive+aggression, and control represented on the grid as passive+aggression or active+defensive. Bomb decks are passive either falling into long term victory with defensive or trying to win quickly with aggression; Morgan Cattle Deedslide is an example of a Passive deck that shift between aggressive and defensive based on what it's opponent is doing. 4R Control is an aggressive active deck.

When we talk about decks in Doomtown its impossibly to not talk about the cards to some degree because at bare minimum your Outfit will give you some direction of how you're going to play. For example Desolation Row, is basically always going to be an agro deck because that's how the ability works. Law Dogs on the other hand, can either be aggressive or defensive, depending on how they use the wanted status, but they will always be active because they want to use that status somehow.

So let me try to answer some of your specific questions:

What are the paths to victory?
Right now your options are killing their guys in shootouts so they have no influence, locking down their guys and taking control of enough deeds to cause them to lose, playing a ton of deeds to flood the board with more deeds than they have influence and then either picking one guy off or just outmaneuvering them to keep control, building control points on dudes either over the course of turns(Desolation Row, Allie Hensman) or bombing out in a single turn with Whateley and saying 'come get me.". You can certainly mix and match these as you like but always have a victory condition in mind when you're looking at who you're up against. The who's the beatdown of a DR vs. DR. matchup will be who has better shooters in their starting posse and who has the better shootout draw hands, who has the better shootout actions in hand and most probably who goes first in lowball. There are a lot of conditionals that happen due to more random nature of what you'll have in your deck than you do in Magic.

What is the tempo of a game?
This is a hard one because the tempo can change very quickly and it's often decided by choices rather than cards. In Netrunner, the Corp needs to adjust tempo as the Runner gains/loses money, so makes his attempts to score during these windows. While the Runner wants to make the Corp think they have a window so they can get in and score themselves, when the Runner isn't running he's threatening centrals or building the rig more. In Doomtown players are both Runner and Corp, they want to play deeds and prevent them from being controlled by the opponent but also want to control their opponents deeds. A player that builds a deed, then moves someone to it, may be playing defensively but it could be a bluff simply to try to keep their opponent out. If they'd moved to town square instead, that would be a more aggressive action and so this shows that maybe they don't really want to fight but are willing to do so to protect their deed. Suggesting maybe their hand isn't particularly strong in shootout actions so they'd be relying on the strength of their dudes.

Tempo is much harder to figure out there because there isn't nearly as much math as there is in Netrunner and the personality of the player and their tells must be much more closely observed. As such the tempo can shift on a single move, I could be building slowly but seeing my opponent is conceding town square, I change gears and send one of my guys to go fight him. A single Travis Moone is enough to scare him off his deed and I come in after with a 1 influence guy to take control. Now he's not generating income and has told me that he needs to get better shootout cards before he's comfortable fighting me. Or he could have accepted my shootout and been willing to risk his dude, or even sent in backup against my 1 guy. I think no matter what the importance of making aggressive moves with single dudes can't be understated. You have to use whatever you have to illicit information from your opponent, even if they are just sitting and building, that's information. Against a deedslide deck, I know I'll need to drop 1-2 early deeds to generate income, then focus on playing guys and trying to fight my opponent wherever I can, otherwise he'll quickly play more deeds than I can cope with in influence. Since he's playing deeds I know his deck is probably not focused on shootout actions as much so it's more likely that I can be him in a shootout.

Essentially the tempo here is typical a gradual increase of resources and dudes and control points until at some point someone plays more control than another person has influence which sets off a shootout or end game that's the normal progression. However because shootouts are so bloody, it's basically like making a run in Netrunner and deciding with out opponent that if you score you win. Against Desolation Row, other aggressive decks will oppose it right away with all their guys, leaving to a situation where the losing player is most likely going to lose the game. However against slower decks, Desolation Row can churn out dudes and victory points so quickly, that trying to stop that initial burst is their best play. Against decks that run Paralysis Mark and lock you down, you'll need to be more aggressive and try to get your dudes into positions where they can at least defend a deed with their influence, rather than being locked down at home. For example, Jake Smiley is most certainly going to get locked down at home, so try to move him to a deed where his influence can help swing the game for you, even if they come and call him out later, it's at least a fighting chance opposed to no chance.

What are the scoring windows/phases of the game?
There really aren't any and each game is so dynamic that it's up to the players to decided if there is even a mid game or late game. This is a bit of a problem with some dudes that cost a lot, however cards are being printed to bring them into early game more easily. Rather than look at any particular stage of the game I tell my new player to instead focus on the control points in total. Once the total control points on the board becomes greater than any players influence, you enter the what I call the end game condition. This means that the means to end the game for one player is on the board. Sometimes this can happen to late in a turn for someone to do anything about it. All the dudes are booted and you're up 4 influence to my 3 control, then I drop a 2 point deed, and since all your dudes are booted, I win. Essentially you always want to look at the influence totals on the board and the control points, then the determines what to play next. I beat my friend 3 games in a row because he kept dropping too many deeds and couldn't keep control of them, so be mindful not only of how many your opponent plays, but also how many you play.

How do you tell who is winning?
Nobody wins Doomtown until they actually win. A player with a lot of deeds and dudes is in an advantageous position but a shootout going the wrong way for him could reverse that in a single noon action. However if you aren't getting more cards on the board, you aren't building ghost rock, and your hand isn't helpful for shootouts; You're losing.

What is a good play?
A good play in my book is anything that results in you getting something from your opponent. That could be information, that could be card advantage, that could be a trade of dude for dude in a shootout, or it could be positional. I send out a cheap clown to pistol whip/sun in yer eyes my opponents all the time, simply because my risk is low and theirs is high. One big different between this an say Conquest is that in Conquest you really are dealing with armies, in Doomtown, similar to L5R back in the day, one dude has a lot of versatility and utility. You don't need to always send out your whole posse and usually that's a poor way of dealing with the situation. You want 1-2 good shooters who can stand on their own, or protect your influence. Then you want a couple influence guys, and these may overlap with your shooters, but typically you want one guy who stands around providing influence and maybe has some decent card effect. Jake Smiley is a good example because he's dirt cheap and 2 influence when it counts.

It's hard to say how good a play is in some cases because it leads your opponents to make choices with could come back to bite you in the rear end. For example you take control of the bank to stop a player from getting 3 income, at sundown they decide they can no longer afford this expensive dude in their hand so they discard them and in doing so draw a game winning pistol whip. So while stopping their income seemed like a good play, letting them have the GR and then fighting the dude they brought out and not getting pistol whipped and sent home could have been a victory for you instead. So rather than mathematical number crunching to figure out where to go like you might do in Netrunner, determining what ICE they can afford to rez vs your cost to break through, in Doomtown you have to instead think about what positional and strategic advantages your plays will open up or close off. Booting a dude to take over an out of town deed shuts off their income from it, but also leaves that guy unable to defend anyone else and open to a Kidnapping with no support from your dudes as well. Taking over a General Store against a deck that plays a lot of spells is a pretty good plan, but it might cause them to come start a shootout right away which could cost you your guy. Even standing in the middle of town square is extremely aggressive and could very well start a shootout when your opponent doesn't choose to back down. It's possible that, just like in Netrunner ,you do everything right and just get unlucky. You call out his guy, play a bunch of cards to neutralize his draw power, then he top decks a legal 5 of a kind to your legal full house.

fozzy fosbourne
Apr 21, 2010

This is great, thanks!

Yeah, it seems like a lot of the strategy in Doomtown is very situational. And right now, the situations are very opaque. Playing with the two demo decks, it's hard to determine on a situational basis whether you have much of an advantage in a potential shootout, whether an act of aggression is warranted, and whether the outcome of an event outside of a clear slaughter led to a favorable position for either player. How important was that deed you just fought over? One person had a casualty, one person spent a shootout card, one person booted a guy, etc .. in terms of card advantage, board state, and win conditions who furthered their position? These sorts of situations do seem to become clearer towards the end of a turn when people's hands are diminished, more things are booted, etc, but at the beginning of a turn it's definitely in "press buttons and levers and see what happens" mode still, heh.

One piece of advice I read somewhere is to think of potential shootouts/acts of aggression not primarily in terms of "will I win?" but in terms of "what will it cost each player?" That sort of reaffirms your points about poking at players with a guy like Travis Moone. The "will I win?" line of thinking sort of leads to a cold war and all-in shootouts, maybe.

Something that I think might help us in particular is trying out some netdecks that push a particular strength/line of play really hard, sooner than later. Directionless Magic decks are really prone to stalled board states and actually a little more difficult to play than a well-tuned basic midrange deck, and I wonder if the same is sort of true for the detuned demo decks in Doomtown.

We're probably going to play a bunch next weekend so I'll let you know how that goes.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

fozzy fosbourne posted:

Something that I think might help us in particular is trying out some netdecks that push a particular strength/line of play really hard, sooner than later. Directionless Magic decks are really prone to stalled board states and actually a little more difficult to play than a well-tuned basic midrange deck, and I wonder if the same is sort of true for the detuned demo decks in Doomtown.

We're probably going to play a bunch next weekend so I'll let you know how that goes.

That's definitely true, I always recommend playing decks with a direction and built in clock of some kind, which is why I always recommend Allie Hensman in any deck that can run her, because adding in a card that generates control points just for you is a great finisher/accelerator.

I would definitely get off the demo decks asap. They're really there just to give you and idea of play and you're exactly right that they will stall really easily.

How many expansions did you jump into? Still on a single core?

fozzy fosbourne
Apr 21, 2010

PaybackJack posted:

That's definitely true, I always recommend playing decks with a direction and built in clock of some kind, which is why I always recommend Allie Hensman in any deck that can run her, because adding in a card that generates control points just for you is a great finisher/accelerator.

I would definitely get off the demo decks asap. They're really there just to give you and idea of play and you're exactly right that they will stall really easily.

How many expansions did you jump into? Still on a single core?

I actually have 2 cores and the first 5 saddle packs and pine box. As we were talking about in the other thread, I don't feel comfortable forming an opinion on a constructed card game without some more cards to work with than the core sets usually have, so I pushed some chips in on this one :)

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

fozzy fosbourne posted:

I actually have 2 cores and the first 5 saddle packs and pine box. As we were talking about in the other thread, I don't feel comfortable forming an opinion on a constructed card game without some more cards to work with than the core sets usually have, so I pushed some chips in on this one :)

Good, I think DTR had a pretty solid first two cycles of expansions. Mostly focusing on finishing out each faction's A-K and giving them a smattering of options but not necessarily a consistent theme. Perhaps in the next cycle we'll see a common theme. I think the common theme of Hoth stuff hurt the early days of Star Wars because it didn't play well with the core set and was really exclusive.

Since you have up to NTB: give these decks a go:

Sloane Gang

Law Dogs

They both won average sized Sheriff events so they should be pretty decent and the Sloane gang has a nice long theory write up on how to play it. Neither is doing anything strange beyond your standard "Squat on Town Square and win" which should make the games interesting and quick. Should be pretty good for getting a grasp on managing threat and tempo while building. Neither has what I would call a quick end game condition but getting the judge out should accelerate that with the LD and the Sloane deck should be trying to build it from day 1 with their Outfit so there should be some conflict.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Sep 28, 2015

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
Good decks, thanks.

Willingdone just posted a spoiler for the Light Shineth. A neutral Mad Scientist that makes Gadget dudes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAEgTQW5Sek

Interesting...

Edit: two more.

http://www.strangeassembly.com/2015/previews-asakichi-cooke-and-cookes-nightcap-doomtown-reloaded-the-light-shineth

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1444920/light-shineth-preview-morgan-mining-company

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Sep 30, 2015

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Very cool card. Even just being able to discard a card is great for the 108 and I would even consider running her in a low value Morgan deck just to get some additional card churn and extra movement even at a 1 upkeep. Cheap influence is always good too, she's a very easy choice to start in the 108.

Cooke's Nightcap is...not worth running over multiple copies of Circle M. If you're really that hard up for GR early game you can find a way to fit in some Jackson's Strikes.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
I disagree, the Nightcap is great for dealing with decks who sit at home. Please come over to my side of the street and let's have a fight.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I disagree, the Nightcap is great for dealing with decks who sit at home. Please come over to my side of the street and let's have a fight.

Except there aren't really any good decks that do that at the moment. Gadgets would do that, but you'd still be accelerating their end game condition and not yours. Even 4R Control is a relatively fast deck and potentially giving it two control points early in the game is a huge deal.

Basically a lot of the current decks are already prepared for an early fight because Desolation Row exists(which this is awful against too) so there's no need to goad most decks. If tower becomes popular and some really good cards come out that slow the pace of the game this could be alright. As it stands now this is not great and downright bad in most matchups.

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
I think you're bad at evaluating cards but w/e

Here's another spoiler for the new 4th Ring outfit and new Q action card:

http://community.gomorragazette.com/t/the-light-shineth-outbreak-at-the-big-top/689

This Action card is the new Kidnappin' for Clowntrol, and it is nasty as poo poo.

Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Oct 1, 2015

Father Wendigo
Sep 28, 2005
This is, sadly, more important to me than bettering myself.

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I think you're bad at evaluating cards but w/e

Here's another spoiler for the new 4th Ring outfit and new Q action card:

http://community.gomorragazette.com/t/the-light-shineth-outbreak-at-the-big-top/689

This Action card is the new Kidnappin' for Clowntrol, and it is nasty as poo poo.

"Don't worry, we've noticed how dominant 4th Ring has become in the metagame."

[ONE EXPANSION LATER]

"Oh... well, we never said we'd actually take steps to do anything about it."

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
I seriously cannot believe how hard Forced Quarantine owns. At least they could have put it on a low value, Christ.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I think you're bad at evaluating cards but w/e

If you can give me some good reasons that I'm missing for seeing why this card is good beyond it being strong against an archetype that is barely seeing competitive play I'll listen.

I mean hey, if there was better tutor options for dudes and deeds then I wouldn't mind it, but running 4x it won't be consistent enough to influence your starting lineup, and hitting it late game after you've already got an economy established it's a terrible drop. You only want to see it in your opening draws and that's it. You don't have the consistency to make it worth playing and it's detrimental in the late game. Running 1x isn't worth it because you won't see it enough for it to be helpful in the early game and even an amazingly powerful deed like Circle M is only worth running 2-3x of because they're unique once they hit play. If this was a ranch I could almost make a case for it with the Morgan Grifter because then you'd have the opportunity to try and get it really early. They gimped that grifter hard with being unable to use his ability if you already have a deed though. Running it as a splash is not as good as Jackson's which has inherent defense in being out of town, and at the same value Circle M is better because card draw is good, and Pat's Perch gives you a steady income source with much less risk and threat.

Bottom line is that the current crop of decks are too fast for this and as such it becomes a liability a lot faster than it becomes an asset.

quote:

Here's another spoiler for the new 4th Ring outfit and new Q action card:

http://community.gomorragazette.com/t/the-light-shineth-outbreak-at-the-big-top/689

This Action card is the new Kidnappin' for Clowntrol, and it is nasty as poo poo.

I'm not a fan of the Outfit for the same reason. It doesn't really have a place right now. Spells are going to take 4R and Agro is probably going to want to take Oddities though I could see that changing if more and more movement comes along. However no GR/CP/Inf is a pretty big negative. One reason why those other decks are strong is because of their built in advantages. It combos well with certain things, I just see the lack of acceleration as too big a negative to run it yet, again if we get some more consistency in resource building from other cards this could be decent.

That action card is money though, there's plenty of ways to make someone lose bullets/influence/value as a noon action and this slots perfectly into 4R as a finisher.

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

I seriously cannot believe how hard Forced Quarantine owns. At least they could have put it on a low value, Christ.

It's good but anything running low values should probably use Kidnappin' instead. Due to how the end of turn effects work, their dude will be discarded after the victory check, meaning that they could still move their dude and potentially take control of a deed before they get discarded and since your posse is now booted at home, that could be something you can't do anything about.

PaybackJack fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Oct 1, 2015

Megaman's Jockstrap
Jul 16, 2000

What a horrible thread to have a post.
It boots their dude though. It's not as good as immediately discarding the Dude since he/she can be unbooted with an effect or Shadow Walk'd/Horse'd to another location, but it's pretty drat close. And you get a control point!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

You'll hit your head and say: 'Boy, how stupid could I have been. A moron could've figured this out. I must be a real dimwit. A pathetic nimnal. A wretched idiotic excuse for a human being for not having figured these simple puzzles out in the first place...As usual, you've been a real pantload!

Megaman's Jockstrap posted:

It boots their dude though. It's not as good as immediately discarding the Dude since he/she can be unbooted with an effect or Shadow Walk'd/Horse'd to another location, but it's pretty drat close. And you get a control point!


What are our noon actions that cause a loss of bullets/value/influence?

Stone Idol - 9H
Blood Curse - QH
Mayor's Office - AD
Hustings - 3D
Incubation - 7C
Rumors - 8C


What else do we have?

  • Locked thread