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H.P. Hovercraft posted:I shall engage only in honorable and upstanding endeavors.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:40
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JawnV6 posted:bootcamps teaching to the qual test, fundable mvp still possible with the CEO's nephew writing code, wow look at all that solution at least it's better than, well, nothing. gently caress i've had to rewrite code where the person clearly had no idea what a goddamn for loop even was, and they used gotos.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:41
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my opinions:
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Oct 5, 2015 19:42
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:anyway one of the offices near me occupied by what i considered to be a proto-techbro now has a sign taped to the door that says "OFFICIAL MAN CAVE" so i guess he's metamorphosed from the larval stage. please ask to see his state certificate of official man cave status
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Oct 5, 2015 19:43
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:at least it's better than, well, nothing. gently caress i've had to rewrite code where the person clearly had no idea what a goddamn for loop even was, and they used gotos.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:43
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qirex posted:please ask to see his state certificate of official man cave status i bet i could put together an official man cave inspection and certification system complete w/ state seal and stamps and a notice placard you could put up
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Oct 5, 2015 19:44
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:i bet i could put together a man cave inspection and certification system "man cave insufficiently carved-out-of-stone: failure  "
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Oct 5, 2015 19:45
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:eehhhhh kinda programming is all about constructing your own little universes of rules and logic and constraints. every programmer does this at some point or another, you are in a problem set and you just create a huge elaborate invisible arcology of your own programmy demise. carpentry, plumbing, welding, engineering, all represent problem sets that are very rigidly within real world constraints: physical space, behavior of electricity, behavior of materials, safety, the relationships between all the prior items in this set. it's very clear when a project has gone wrong and there are clear standards to define this. programming barely has any of that, it's more akin to something benign like literature, but with less universal aesthetic by which to judge it. each programming language is also it's own weird world of specialists and usage and quirks. "judging" programmers is a huge challenge and mostly comes down to attitude, success metrics and hope on the part of the hiring party. i don't even know how one would begin coming up with an Actually Good Test for programmers in the context of a certification program that was at all meaningful.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:45
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that pyramid of mountain dew cans isn't secured to the wall with 1/4" retaining bolts or 1" nylon webbing *marks on clipboard* recliner leather passes smell and texture tests you appear to have connected this HDTV with composite video instead of HDMI, sorry bro but that's an instant fail *scribbles on form* here's your receipt and you're eligible to re-test in 90 days
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Oct 5, 2015 19:46
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qirex posted:I'd say the biggest challenge to labor organization isn't the work it's the fact that there aren't clear demarcations between "workers" and "bosses" in most modern companies, it's more of a slow gradient yeah the legal restrictions on unions make unionizing most programmers impossible Mido posted:programming is all about constructing your own little universes of rules and logic and constraints. every programmer does this at some point or another, you are in a problem set and you just create a huge elaborate invisible arcology of your own programmy demise. lol dude people same that same poo poo about building the perfect brick wall or wooden box
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Oct 5, 2015 19:48
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Trabisnikof posted:yeah the legal restrictions on unions make unionizing most programmers impossible i didnt say it was impossible, im just really curious what it will look like.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:49
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- improper cleanup protocols in use at masturbation station - flatus abatement devices not present at site - television screen dimensions inappropriate for distance to gaming couch - toilet paper loaded in improper overhead fashion - armrest cupholders in couch do not meet current (2015) man cave code placement requirements qirex posted:that pyramid of mountain dew cans isn't secured to the wall with 1/4" retaining bolts or 1" nylon webbing *marks on clipboard* lol
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Oct 5, 2015 19:52
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Mido posted:i didnt say it was impossible, im just really curious what it will look like. the law would have to change first, as is, setting your own schedule can be enough to qualify you as "management"
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Oct 5, 2015 19:53
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:i mean this is the same sort of bullshit idea that leads people to declare that ~coding is an artform~ and get all pretentious about it. i'm personally of the opinion that there's usually one or two "correct" ways to solve a coding problem optimally and anything else is dumb and wrong, there is no artistic license in coding any more than there is in mathematics. lol that didn't take long you totally called it Mido posted:programming is all about constructing your own little universes of rules and logic and constraints. every programmer does this at some point or another, you are in a problem set and you just create a huge elaborate invisible arcology of your own programmy demise.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:55
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qirex posted:you appear to have connected this HDTV with composite video instead of HDMI, trigger warnings please
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Oct 5, 2015 20:00
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Mido posted:programming barely has any of that, it's more akin to something benign like literature, but with less universal aesthetic by which to judge it. each programming language is also it's own weird world of specialists and usage and quirks. hang on, let me get this straight: it's harder to determine whether or not a piece of literature is good than if computer code is good? understanding that both literature and computer code can be both functional, and artistic? and im giving a wide interpretation of artistic when applying it to computer code, as a gift to the denizens of YOSPOS.
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Oct 5, 2015 20:06
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:lol that didn't take long big laughs at this post. YOSPOS bitch
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Oct 5, 2015 20:07
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*HUge epically girthed grognard, master of COBOL and Warhammer reclines in his seasoned Office Depot Executive Lounger: its easy to tell if a book is good or bad, simply apply some basic filters based on the culture it wad realsed it, run the grammer theough a spell checker, and presto - good or bad easily determined. now computer code? well, that's a different story *strokes beard and gazes off into the infinite blackness beyond the borders of his flickering crt*
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Oct 5, 2015 20:09
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programmers are awful at making software that isnt pure trash & full of security holes gently caress yeah a barrier to entry would be a good thing, also real accountability
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Oct 5, 2015 20:10
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if there was a barrier to entry it'd have to be curb-high because we live in a perpetual "tech worker shortage"
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Oct 5, 2015 20:12
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All manner of trades have artistry to them, but that trade is built upon commonly accepted standards. To think that would be impossible in programming to find commonly accepted standards because it's too complex belies a lack of imagination. The majority of security disclosures and breaches these days seem not to be hard, difficult to foresee issues, but fundamental errors in programming. These mistakes happen, but bringing up the bar for awareness of basic mistakes can do nothing but help the state of programming. Here in Australia there's even accreditation for photographers, because when you get contracted your job is to fulfil a brief, and through that your artistry can be assessed by business criteria. Sure, you can go out and just take photos, but AGDA accreditation means you can back up your contracted rate with AGDA's guidelines. There are many forms organising can take to protect programming, and potentially everyone wins if dumb mistakes are made less often.
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Oct 5, 2015 20:17
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Bhodi posted:if there was a barrier to entry it'd have to be curb-high because we live in a perpetual "tech worker shortage" "$profession worker shortage" means that employers just want to pay less to staff these positions hth
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Oct 5, 2015 20:17
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how many programmers are perfectly aware of best practices and willfully ignore them
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Oct 5, 2015 20:18
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:how many programmers are perfectly aware of best practices and willfully ignore them who defines best practices? they better use the indent style i like
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Oct 5, 2015 20:19
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:i mean this is the same sort of bullshit idea that leads people to declare that ~coding is an artform~ and get all pretentious about it. i'm personally of the opinion that there's usually one or two "correct" ways to solve a coding problem optimally and anything else is dumb and wrong, there is no artistic license in coding any more than there is in mathematics. this is an interesting viewpoint, especially when you consider how many famous mathematicians like Russell, Mandelbrot, Hardy et. al regarded math as much as an art as a science. It's a creative process and a lot of potentially excellent programmers and mathematicians get turned off because of attitudes like this
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Oct 5, 2015 20:21
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:how many programmers are perfectly aware of best practices and willfully ignore them same except doctors
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Oct 5, 2015 20:22
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Broken Machine posted:this is an interesting viewpoint, especially when you consider how many famous mathematicians like Russell, Mandelbrot, Hardy et. al regarded math as much as an art as a science. It's a creative process and a lot of potentially excellent programmers and mathematicians get turned off because of attitudes like this is it possible that those guys were like picasso, where he could paint normal according to all the "standards", but once he had that nailed down, he just went bonkers with the creativity?
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Oct 5, 2015 20:22
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you guys realize ABET already has a certification exam for software engineers, right?
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Oct 5, 2015 20:23
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groverhaus is basically the carpentry/electrician equivalent of current programming
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Oct 5, 2015 20:24
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prefect posted:is it possible that those guys were like picasso, where he could paint normal according to all the "standards", but once he had that nailed down, he just went bonkers with the creativity? yes. There are also people like Paul Graham (who many either really like or dislike) who were also trained as artists or musicians before they became programmers.
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Oct 5, 2015 20:24
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ArmZ posted:same except doctors *sues for malpractice over windows 8*
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Oct 5, 2015 20:24
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do you guys envision bringing lawsuit against programmers who get their certification and then proceed to write bad code
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Oct 5, 2015 20:28
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how would certification / accountability work for Marketing Engineers such as myself
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Oct 5, 2015 20:29
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:do you guys envision bringing lawsuit against programmers who get their certification and then proceed to write bad code they will be beaten out of the Brotherhood
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Oct 5, 2015 20:29
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Beast of Bourbon posted:how would certification / accountability work for Marketing Engineers such as myself the ethics test but inverted
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Oct 5, 2015 20:30
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Broken Machine posted:yes. There are also people like Paul Graham (who many either really like or dislike) who were also trained as artists or musicians before they became programmers. yeah, i didn't have formal programmer training; i wouldn't have been able to get into it if that had been required 
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Oct 5, 2015 20:31
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idk what other professional associations are like but the uxpa is full of the lamest people doing the most boring work
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Oct 5, 2015 20:32
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it's me, I'm the lamest person doing the most boring work
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Oct 5, 2015 20:32
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:*sues for malpractice over windows 8* lol if you think doctors don't regularly commit malpractice and get away with it also software professional malpractice and/or products liability have been a thing since the 70s http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1079&context=btlj
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Oct 5, 2015 20:44
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qirex posted:that was my whole point, how can you have a "union" when literally nobody does the same thing as anyone else my dad is in a union that covers: teachers (him) flight attendants firefighters nurses wire service employees newspaper employees (both editorial and labor) furniture builders graphic designers among a bunch of other things. get over your dumb self, "programmers in general" would be a significantly less broad union than many existing unions are
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Oct 5, 2015 20:51
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