Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

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Synthbuttrange: May 6, 2007

Obv they were too busy chasing down Karen.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:36

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 21:18

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

Speaking of dickheads, Kroger and the Vic Libs having another senior moment:

James Massola, SMH posted:

Victorian Liberal president Michael Kroger has credited Malcolm Turnbull with a dramatic turnaround in the party's fortunes, telling an exclusive party fundraiser the switch of leader meant just one federal seat - rather than six under Tony Abbott - was now at risk.

And Victorian Liberals have opened their arms - and their wallets - to welcome the new Prime Minister at an Enterprise Victoria fundraising dinner, with an estimated $400,000 raised for the party on Tuesday night.

Mr Kroger also told the 400 guests at the event, which coincided with a cabinet meeting in Melbourne and was held at Zinc in Melbourne's Federation Square, that former MP Sophie Mirabella was now a chance to regain the seat of Indi from independent Cathy McGowan and a third senate seat was now in play.

He identified four Labor-held seats - Bruce, Chisholm, Bendigo and McEwen - where the Liberal Party was making gains.

While Mr Kroger did not name the one at-risk seat in Victoria, it is understood to be Corangamite, which includes parts of Geelong and Colac and is held by Sarah Henderson.

Despite Mr Abbott being a regular visitor to the state, Victoria was typically the Liberal Party's weakest or second-weakest state in published opinion polls.

In the honeymoon period since Mr Turnbull took over as prime minister, he has also been a frequent visitor to the state and party faithful have been encouraged by early signs the party may be able to turn its fortunes around in a state that has been a Labor stronghold in recent years.

More than one Liberal told Fairfax Media that, at its lowest ebb, the party's internal polling had slipped to a primary vote low of 32 percentage points - a disastrous position for the party in the country's second most populous state.

A Fairfax-Ipsos poll conducted in August showed a combined Liberal-National primary vote of 36 percentage points, though the poll had a margin of error of 5.2 per cent.

The fundraiser was a veritable who's who of senior state and federal Liberal MPs, including Mr Turnbull, deputy leader Julie Bishop, leader of the house Christopher Pyne, state opposition leader Matthew Guy, his treasury spokesman Michael O'Brien, party elder statesman Peter Reith and Mr Kroger.

Tickets for the fundraiser were $1100 per person or $10,000 a table and, in the words of one Liberal who attended, "there wasn't much space left in the room and the mood was very, very good".

Ms Bishop spoke first and then introduced Mr Turnbull, who spoke to the room for about 15 minutes, outlining what he liked about Melbourne before moving on to discuss his belief in the importance of innovation, investment in human capital and his vision for Australia.

The pair then conducted a question and answer session with the audience before handing over to Mr Guy.

Another Liberal who attended the event said that since the switch to Mr Turnbull, donations - which had dried up around the time of the second federal budget - had started to flow again.

" The donors are coming out again, some of our biggest, real stalwarts, they were feral about [Joe] Hockey and Abbott and the money had been drying up."

The fundraising night, one of the most important in the Liberal calendar, had been planned when Mr Abbott was still prime minister and the Liberal Party had pared back costs to try and maximise returns.

After years at Crown's Palladium room, the most expensive venue to hire in Melbourne, the dinner was instead booked for the much less expensive Zinc venue.

High profile MCs in the past three years have been Catriona Rowntree, Eddie McGuire and Dermott Brereton but this year no such MC was flagged in the invites.

"The concern had been that fundraising in Victoria would be a train wreck for some time. It was the Abbott factor, coupled with being in opposition at state level and a number of issues at administrative level," another Liberal said.

"We thought we'd struggle to raise much at all. But the change of leader and shake-up at 104 [Exhibition Street, Liberal headquarters] has made a difference. The night was a huge success."

At least two of them, Bendigo and McEwan are just hilarious dreaming on Kroger's part. In Bendigo Lisa Chesters is so embedded they're resorting to using Senator McKenzie (a loving Nat) to "balance" her comments on radio, so invisible are the Libs here. McEwan I have on good authority is also pie in the sky. As for Mirabella, ahahahahahahahahaha.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 07:48

Pickled Tink: Apr 28, 2012; Have you heard about First Dog? It's a very good comic I just love.

Also, wear your bike helmets kids. I copped several blows to the head but my helmet left me totally unscathed.

Finally you should check out First Dog as it's a good comic I like it very much.; Fun Shoe

First Dog:

Kitten + Cat:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 08:00

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Execu-speak posted:

So our intelligence agencies doing their job by trying to identify and nip radicalisation in the bud are to blame.

I guess they should just quit then and let it all slide eh?

Just to make sure, when you say 'doing their job', you mean conducting dawn raids with heavily armed police officers against 25 homes, leading to 15 people being detained, a whole 2 people charged, with an earth-shattering ~1~ of those charges being terrorism-related, correct?

I feel like a better ratio of homes targeted to potential terrorists identified would be desirable, to be honest. Maybe if you're not confident that you can get more than a single suspected terrorist from a counter-terrorism operation involving more than 800 police officers on the ground, you need to reevaluate whether the operation is worth it. :shrug:

# ? Oct 7, 2015 09:25

Pred1ct: Feb 20, 2004; Burninating

clusterfuck posted:

It's from 2009 hth.

gently caress I should have looked at it properly when I first saw it come up on twitter.

This piece is more recent I promise (Tim Lyons seems to be a very sound campaigner):

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-07/lyons-defending-penalty-rates-does-not-require-political-bravery/6833740

quote:

Supporters of penalty rates should be encouraged by the fact that their stance is shared by most Australians and that employers have failed to make the economic case for this attack on incomes, writes Tim Lyons.

Since the regime change in Canberra, amongst the things that have stayed exactly the same are Coalition ministers supporting calls for cuts to weekend penalty rates, and Sunday rates in particular.

This has been part of a "call and response" game that has been playing out between employer groups and the Coalition over some years now.

The economic case, if you can call it that, for cuts to penalty rates is ridiculously overcooked.

Take a report released by hospitality employers in July as part of the Productivity Commission review of workplace relations, breathlessly headlined, "Penalty rate cut will create 40,000 jobs."

But when you actually read the text, all it said was that it was possible that cutting Sunday penalty rates would result in 60,000 extra hours being worked. Even if it was new workers, there aren't too many people who would argue that 1.5 hours work a week is a "new job".

So even on the employers' own argument, cutting Sunday rates would mean a lot of people taking a pay cut, and a much smaller number of people working a couple of additional hours work - perhaps to make up their lost wages.

Given multiple chances to produce real evidence that penalty rates hurt employment or opening hours, the employers invariably fail.

In a case currently before the Fair Work Commission involving claims to cut Sunday hospitality penalty rates, the employers were put on notice regarding the flimsy nature of their evidence. Witnesses admitted they had done no calculations as to how many more staff they would employ, and that they already employed the same number of staff across the weekend, despite differences in penalty rates.

Some of the employer witnesses appeared to think that the case was about cutting all penalty rates completely, confirming that the real agenda here is a longer term push for total abolition.

The statistical evidence doesn't support calls for cuts. Measured by the number of businesses, hours worked and employment, restaurants and cafes have been "booming".

Meanwhile, the other key target of this campaign is retail. The sector employs about 1.2 million Australians (our second largest industry after health and social assistance). There is no indication of a job or business Armageddon in the data, because of penalty rates or otherwise. Employment in this industry tends to move around based on the overall health of the economy - in other words, it tracks demand and consumer sentiment, exactly as you'd expect.

Then there are the claims that caf� and retail penalty rates are not "internationally competitive" and so must be cut. This argument is as silly as the urban myth that none of us can find an open caf� on a weekend. If you don't believe me, ask your local caf� owner if she has considered relocating their facility to Guangdong to lower the labour costs associated with Sunday brunch.

A relatively small group of workers make this sort of 24/7 economy possible. But it's their wages on the block.
The Prime Minister yesterday cited the "24/7 economy" as grounds for cutting penalty rates. Higher Sunday rates were "historical" he said.

Contrary to what the PM said, penalty rates aren't about some historical curiosity like chimney sweeps or rotary clotheslines. They are about the present reality of who has to work when.

Lots of us consume goods and services at all sorts of weird hours, but not many of us actually work that way. As economist Greg Jericho pointed out in response to the Productivity Commission's draft report on the workplace, "The level of people working at least one day at the weekend hasn't shifted at all in the past 15 years."

The consumption most of us do outside the still highly prevalent "Monday-Friday office hours" is made possible only because of those of us working in retail and "hops". Along this those who transport us around and clean up the mess. And who keep us safe and are there if we get sick.

A relatively small group of workers make this sort of 24/7 economy possible. But it's their wages on the block.

The campaign for cuts to penalty rates consists of the people who make the profits trying to get the politicians to convince those who do the consuming to acquiesce to pay cuts of the people who do the actual work at nights and weekends.

But it's about "the economy" and being "modern" and "24 /7". And it's mostly young people who don't really "need" the money anyway.

Which brings us to Bill Shorten's bewildering use of the example of the need to pay private school fees as a justification for penalty rates. Labor supporters on social media cited low fee Catholic schools as an example, an argument Shorten subsequently adopted.

While almost any example from a household budget would have been better than the one Shorten used, this sort of argument is generally unhelpful and misses a more fundamental point.

In my view "We need to cut your pay to give you a job" and "we need to pay you penalty rates or you'll be surviving on two minute noodles" are bad arguments just like the one about school fees. It can can dehumanise the people involved and demean our society as a whole.

It's not some sort of problem that workers might have the ability to engage in a bit of discretionary spending. Pay your bills. Buy yourself something. Or even have a drink. It's all good. It's your money.

Attacking things like penalty rates (and minimum wages) amounts to a explicit prescription for more inequality. Penalty rates are an anti-poverty measure and they are a bulwark against inequality. But they are more than that.

Defending weekend rates as if they are some kind of act of charity (as some on the Left tend to do) is wrong.

One of the centre-left's strongest suits in economics is supporting good earned incomes for working people. Earned incomes can help give an individual or a family autonomy, security and choices.

Defending penalty rates does not require political bravery - poll after poll has shown stratospheric levels of support of penalty rates (in the 70 and 80 percent range). About three quarters of Coalition voters are supportive of penalty rates.

Labor, and anyone else looking to defend incomes and living standards, must be unapologetic about supporting penalty rates. Whatever people choose to spend the money on.

Tim Lyons is a research fellow at independent think-tank Per Capita and a former ACTU assistant secretary. He tweets @picketer.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:09

Lid: Feb 18, 2005; And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

quote:

High school student Farhad Jabar was recruited by a group of western Sydney extremists to carry out a terrorist attack because they thought they were under too much surveillance to do it themselves, police believe.

CCTV from Parramatta Mosque, now in the hands of police, shows several men meeting Jabar at the mosque on Friday, hours before the quiet year 10 student walked to the Parramatta police headquarters and shot accountant Curtis Cheng, 58, in the back of the head.

yup

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:13

Execu-speak: Jun 2, 2011; Welcome to the real world hippies!

BBJoey posted:

Just to make sure, when you say 'doing their job', you mean conducting dawn raids with heavily armed police officers against 25 homes, leading to 15 people being detained, a whole 2 people charged, with an earth-shattering ~1~ of those charges being terrorism-related, correct?

I feel like a better ratio of homes targeted to potential terrorists identified would be desirable, to be honest. Maybe if you're not confident that you can get more than a single suspected terrorist from a counter-terrorism operation involving more than 800 police officers on the ground, you need to reevaluate whether the operation is worth it.

The kind of work they're doing isn't ever going to yield a perfect strike rate. Intelligence agencies work off of limited information and then make the best judgement they can based upon it. We don't live in a perfect world where it's as simple as, "Theres the bad guys, let's get em". To expect that is just unrealistic.

If that's means sometimes a large operation is run with a small return then so what? If that's one or two people off the street who posed a genuine threat of doing something horrible then to me it's worth it.

You're happy to criticise the counter terrorism work our agencies are doing now. But I bet if something major happened you'd be the first to jump up and down screaming about them not doing enough.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:24

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Execu-speak posted:

The kind of work they're doing isn't ever going to yield a perfect strike rate. Intelligence agencies work off of limited information and then make the best judgement they can based upon it. We don't live in a perfect world where it's as simple as, "Theres the bad guys, let's get em". To expect that is just unrealistic.

If that's means sometimes a large operation is run with a small return then so what? If that's one or two people off the street who posed a genuine threat of doing something horrible then to me it's worth it.

You're happy to criticise the counter terrorism work our agencies are doing now. But I bet if something major happened you'd be the first to jump up and down screaming about them not doing enough.

You don't understand. They caught one (possible) terrorist. They planted the seeds of fear and distrust of the police in 23 innocent people as well as their immediate friends and family. In the majority of cases those seeds will bear no fruit, but if even one of the people targeted by the police grew to detest them and became radicalised, the entire raid was a zero sum game. If two people become radicalised as a result of the raid, our counter-terrorism work has actually made the situation worse.

You accuse me of unrealistic thinking but you're missing the point entirely. When you mount an 800 man raid and end up with 1 suspect to show for it and call that a great victory, what kind of message does that send to the Muslim community? What does it say to members of our society who are already marginalised, who are taunted with racist slogans daily, who see their innocent brothers and sisters in faith murdered in conflicts overseas as collateral damage courtesy of Western bombers?

I'm not saying 'oh it's all the bastard cops fault'. The world is complicated. But to claim that the ridiculous show of force Tony staged in September last year does not have at least some part to play in all this is wishful thinking.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:44

Tokamak: Dec 22, 2004

Execu-speak posted:

The kind of work they're doing isn't ever going to yield a perfect strike rate. Intelligence agencies work off of limited information and then make the best judgement they can based upon it. We don't live in a perfect world where it's as simple as, "Theres the bad guys, let's get em". To expect that is just unrealistic.

If that's means sometimes a large operation is run with a small return then so what? If that's one or two people off the street who posed a genuine threat of doing something horrible then to me it's worth it.

You're happy to criticise the counter terrorism work our agencies are doing now. But I bet if something major happened you'd be the first to jump up and down screaming about them not doing enough.

You'd get a better strike rate finding lefty political forums, and raiding user's homes. Out of 100 users, there's probably at least 10 with drugs. And who knows, maybe one of them was reading radical political ideology about saving sharks, or climate change, or something.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:44

Starshark: Dec 22, 2005; Doctor Rope

Tokamak posted:

You'd get a better strike rate finding lefty political forums, and raiding user's homes. Out of 100 users, there's probably at least 10 with drugs. And who knows, maybe one of them was reading radical political ideology about saving sharks, or climate change, or something.

Mate some of these fuckin' lefties listen to alternative music. When's that going to stop?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 11:53

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

Lid posted:

yup

Lock up all impressionable kids.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 13:16

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Diet Crack posted:

Lock up all impressionable kids.

This is a really inappropriate and stupid response to what was just posted, dude. I mean I know we are against the police state here, and I agree with you that the raid last year was poorly conducted.

But CCTV of a kid meeting suspected terrorists hours before a murder? Come the gently caress on. This isn't the time to be all "hurr duur paranoid stupid cops what's next their going to outlaw punk music lmao"

# ? Oct 7, 2015 13:43

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Diet Crack posted:

Lock up all impressionable kids.

Kill us all. Let god sort us out.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 14:05

clusterfuck: Feb 6, 2004

Someone got that Hanson 'No More' photoshop from a few days ago? An FB posted the real thing and had a whinge and needs to see the photoshop, sadly I am too retarded to find it despite my piss poor efforts.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 14:16

Nibbles!: Jun 26, 2008; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

I wonder if there's a staffer right now hitting ctrl+f on decades old speeches and replacing 'Asians' with 'Muslims'.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 14:52

Birb Katter: Sep 18, 2010; BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Tokamak posted:

You'd get a better strike rate finding lefty political forums, and raiding user's homes. Out of 100 users, there's probably at least 10 with drugs. And who knows, maybe one of them was reading radical political ideology about saving sharks, or climate change, or something.

I'm armed everywhere I go. That multi-tool that I carry in my bag could be used to wage a socialist jihad and you know it.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 15:32

Cleretic: Feb 3, 2010; Ignore my posts!
I'm aggressively wrong about everything!

Tokamak posted:

You'd get a better strike rate finding lefty political forums, and raiding user's homes. Out of 100 users, there's probably at least 10 with drugs. And who knows, maybe one of them was reading radical political ideology about saving sharks, or climate change, or something.

They'd probably get an even better strike rate going to the hardline-right, super-racist Facebook pages where everyone's stupid enough to be using their real names and posting pictures of themselves, and it wouldn't even be very hard.

Politics in this country is sometimes like watching a Let's Play by someone who's really trying, but just isn't intellectually there enough to realize the obvious solution to a problem. I'm just screaming at my computer screen in vague hope to distract myself from the fact that I am wasting my life.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 16:07

drunkill: Sep 25, 2007; me @ ur posting; Fallen Rib

V for Vegas posted:

Jay walking crackdown in Sydney - just saw 2 cops fine a guy in the CBD for crossing against the light. WTF??

Happens in Melb cbd whenever a new class graduates from vicpol academy.

Jaywalking blitz for three or four random days.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 17:40

Diet Crack: Jan 15, 2001

Amethyst posted:

This is a really inappropriate and stupid response to what was just posted, dude. I mean I know we are against the police state here, and I agree with you that the raid last year was poorly conducted.

But CCTV of a kid meeting suspected terrorists hours before a murder? Come the gently caress on. This isn't the time to be all "hurr duur paranoid stupid cops what's next their going to outlaw punk music lmao"

Diet Crack fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 17:42

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Nibbles! posted:

I wonder if there's a staffer right now hitting ctrl+f on decades old speeches and replacing 'Asians' with 'Muslims'.

I don't think Hanson can afford staff yet

# ? Oct 7, 2015 21:23

You Am I: May 20, 2001; Me @ your poasting

My question is: since the shoot was a believer in the Muslim faith, thus the police were quick to call it a terrorist act, does this mean Ned Kelly was a terrorist, as he shot police and was a part of a then hated religion (Catholicism, which disliked pretty heavily by Protestants) and from a disadvantaged race (Irish)?

# ? Oct 7, 2015 22:48

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

He did rob banks, which some would attribute as his central motive.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 22:56

iajanus: Aug 17, 2004; NUMBER 1 QUEENSLAND SUPPORTER
MAROONS 2023 STATE OF ORIGIN CHAMPIONS FOR LIFE

ewe2 posted:

Speaking of dickheads, Kroger and the Vic Libs having another senior moment:

At least two of them, Bendigo and McEwan are just hilarious dreaming on Kroger's part. In Bendigo Lisa Chesters is so embedded they're resorting to using Senator McKenzie (a loving Nat) to "balance" her comments on radio, so invisible are the Libs here. McEwan I have on good authority is also pie in the sky. As for Mirabella, ahahahahahahahahaha.

Do we have more recent polling in McEwen to go from? I only know the last election results where there was a ~9% swing to Lib and Labor held it with like a .3% margin. Would be heartening if that was widening again.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:39

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

You Am I posted:

My question is: since the shoot was a believer in the Muslim faith, thus the police were quick to call it a terrorist act, does this mean Ned Kelly was a terrorist, as he shot police and was a part of a then hated religion (Catholicism, which disliked pretty heavily by Protestants) and from a disadvantaged race (Irish)?

Sure why not. http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/201730328?searchTerm=%22kelly%20gang%22%20terror&searchLimits=l-decade=187 http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/148526893?searchTerm=%22kelly%20gang%22%20terrorism&searchLimits=l-decade=187

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:41

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

I think terrorist and religious extremist are two separate but often related things. I think it would be hard to make the case that the Kelly Gang were motivated by religion, but depending how you define terrorist they could fit the bill.

chaos rhames posted:

He did rob banks, which some would attribute as his central motive.

Its a long time since I read up on the topic, but I'm pretty sure towards the point where they all got wiped out they were highly motivated by a hatred of Cops.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:44

WhiskeyWhiskers: Oct 14, 2013; "هذا ليس عادلاً."
"هذا ليس عادلاً على الإطلاق."
"كان هناك وقت الآن."
(السياق الخفي: للقراءة)

Zenithe posted:

This gem was from the UPFs page.

Couple of pages back now, but I just noticed one of these taped to a lightpole near the uni. In the middle of a roundabout. Who the gently caress do they think is going to read that? I wouldn't have even known what it was if it weren't for this picture. It's torn in two now though. It's gladdening to know that some fascist has probably lost his job at officeworks for using the printer for personal use, or has wasted hundreds of dollars in coloured ink on posters no one is going to read.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:56

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Hey, what's the deal with filming people without their knowledge? My local moron chapter went "undercover" at the local Islamic Centre and filmed something, then posted it on facebook.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:56

GrandTheftAutism: Dec 24, 2013; by Fluffdaddy

Zenithe posted:

Hey, what's the deal with filming people without their knowledge? My local moron chapter went "undercover" at the local Islamic Centre and filmed something, then posted it on facebook.

Definitely not halal. The centre could sue them and claim ownership of the footage, like Today Tonight did with the Chaser crew.

GrandTheftAutism fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Oct 8, 2015

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:09

Ahh Yes: Nov 16, 2004; >_>

I'm ignorant here, but the abc and other media outlets, blur out faces of civilians involved in court cases in certain circumstances, not just children who have specific protection for obvious reasons.

I remember that ranga Muslim convert who married off his 12 year old daughter could request to have his face blurred, but that might relate to specific broadcasting obligations media organisations have to follow or a legal mechanism to enforce privacy for the defendant.

But then that meth head who killed a lot of puppies did not have his face hidden by the media, instead he had his own form of privacy by wearing a jumper over his head exposing his baby bump. And if I were him I would probably not want the Australian public to know my ugly face.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:12

CATTASTIC: Mar 31, 2010; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Revealed: How I saw Farhad Jabar change a week before he became a killer

In his last weeks, Farhad Jabar started skipping school. Most mornings, in his school uniform, he would turn up alone to Parramatta mosque. That�s where Isaac first saw him.

�I attend the mosque on a daily basis as I�m walking to work. In the morning it�s quite empty,� Isaac says. �In the last two or three months I noticed this young person.�

A week after the death of Curtis Cheng, students at Arthur Phillip High School have remembered Jabar as quietly devout, a talented basketballer and a friendly but private classmate.

But what drove the teenager � a timid, withdrawn 15-year-old with no history of violence � remains a mystery.

Isaac, who asked for his real name to be withheld after calls by rightwing groups for attacks on Muslims, agreed to share with Guardian Australia his impressions of the young man he met in the mosque that day, and got to know over the next few months, until a �bizarre, concerning� final encounter a fortnight ago.

Jabar, in his school uniform, �stuck out� in Parramatta mosque the first morning he met Isaac. �He was just hanging out there, reading books, praying,� he says.

�It was 9am, he should have been in school � It�s not normal behaviour to isolate yourself.�

Their first encounters were frosty, but gradually the 15-year-old opened up. �He told me things weren�t going well at school, he wasn�t interested in school any more, that he was being bullied. He said he didn�t like it any more. He wasn�t interested because he wasn�t feeling good.

�He spoke about it with a sense of sorrow,� he says.

Isaac became concerned about the boy�s mental health. �Sometimes he would be quite bubbly. Sometimes he would be quite withdrawn. And those are typical signs of all sorts of mental health conditions, especially young people,� Isaac says.

�I presented my concerns to psychologists and other professionals and got some feedback. And the feedback was, these were depressive symptoms, these were symptoms of trauma, of anxiety.�

On Wednesday Isaac was still struggling to make sense of the killing of 58-year-old Curtis Cheng, a crime he said was �absolutely horrific�. He is haunted by the image of the boy, in traditional Islamic garb, waving a gun and strutting before the New South Wales police headquarters in Parramatta.

�It was a shock to the core,� he said. �[Jabar] was soft-spoken, really gentle, you got a really innocent boy-like feeling about him.

�[Friday] was the first time I�ve ever seen him in the tradition Islamic clothing. Just his mannerisms in terms of pacing up and down, trying to pump himself up, I�d never seen that sort of behaviour from him.�

In the past few weeks Isaac felt he had begun to make progress with Jabar. They arranged to have a hot chocolate. Isaac wanted to set him on the right path.

�I told him, I know you�re not happy at school, but what do you want to do with your life? I have all sorts of connections I can hook you up with. If you want to work, if you want to get into a trade, if you want to get into external study, let�s talk about it.�

He says his last encounter with Jabar, one week before the killing, was �bizarre, concerning�.

�Over the period of time that I got to know him he would greet me with a handshake followed by a hug. And he was generally always alone.

�But the last time I saw him he was with four males sitting down on the mosque floor, who I hadn�t seen before. And he saw me, but pretended not to see me, just gave me the cold shoulder.

�So I went over to the group, said to them Salaam Alaikum, peace be upon you. And he shook my hand, then brushed me off and the rest of the group didn�t respond,� he said.

�That�s a big deal in the Islamic faith. One of the rights you have upon a fellow Muslim is to greet them with the best greeting. But he responded really coldly. I got the sense he didn�t want the others to know we had an interaction going on.�

He discovered that Jabar was behind Friday�s shooting on Saturday, when photos of the teenager first circulated. �Honestly, it was as if my heart dropped. I was lost for words,� he says.

He is bitter about the way Parramatta mosque has been �dragged through the mud� in the past week. The prayer hall is known for its emphasis on community service, and he says the sermons are deeply spiritual and inspiring.

�They lift you up as a human, you could never draw any negative connotations from them. You could never draw any connection between what�s preached and anyone getting a radical idea.�

He had seen Jabar as a young man looking to be guided. �He was so vulnerable and so mentally confused or unwell that he was so easily susceptible to any figure of acceptance or group acceptance,� he says.

�As a young person growing up in Australia, especially if you�re of an ethnic background, what are you looking for? Acceptance, identity.�

Isaac says mental illness is still poorly understood within some Muslim communities, as it is in many other parts of society.

�[We] need to understand the religious and cultural implications that mental health has. A young Muslim person battling depression isn�t going to go out and talk about it.

�It�s seen as something, within the context of the community, it doesn�t feed into the notion of being a man, of being resilient.�

Isaac has passed what he knows to authorities. He is helping to organise a conference on mental health in an Islamic cultural context, work that has now taken on a new significance.

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/oct/08/farhad-jabar-troubled-soft-spoken-boy-turned-into-killer

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:17

Vladimir Poutine: Aug 13, 2012

Zenithe posted:

Hey, what's the deal with filming people without their knowledge? My local moron chapter went "undercover" at the local Islamic Centre and filmed something, then posted it on facebook.

Was it in public or was it technically inside the Islamic Centre?

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:20

Zenithe: Feb 25, 2013; _{Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.}

Vladimir Poutine posted:

Was it in public or was it technically inside the Islamic Centre?

It was filmed at an open day inside the centre.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:43

Vladimir Poutine: Aug 13, 2012

You should probably ask the crew thread. There are a couple of legal goons like TOML and Lordpants who post there who could probably tell you straight up what the deal is.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:49

ewe2: Jul 1, 2009

iajanus posted:

Do we have more recent polling in McEwen to go from? I only know the last election results where there was a ~9% swing to Lib and Labor held it with like a .3% margin. Would be heartening if that was widening again.

Nothing solid, its an anecdotal battle of the internal polling from what I hear. ALP are quietly confident they're getting a base of support but that could be BS too. Kroger's just talking up the chances though, McEwan is one of those lineball electorates but it's also changed significantly. They are very desperate to lock that in so I won't be surprised if they throw money at it like they did in Bendigo the last state and federal elections. It didn't help in Bendigo and I'm not convinced the state party has any better ideas than "throw money at it".

# ? Oct 8, 2015 01:07

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

As a bit of a palate cleanser:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-08/liberal-party-director-brian-loughnane-to-stand-down/6836562

quote:

Brian Loughnane: Liberal Party director stands down, to be replaced by former Howard COS Tony Nutt By political editor Chris Uhlmann Updated about an hour ago

Liberal Party federal director Brian Loughnane has announced he is standing down. Mr Loughnane told Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of his decision to resign yesterday. It is expected he will be replaced by the NSW state director and Liberal Party stalwart Tony Nutt. Some Liberal MPs see Mr Loughnane's departure as the natural conclusion to the leadership spill which felled Tony Abbott. There has been internal disquiet about the party's leadership troika, because Mr Abbott's former chief of staff Peta Credlin is married to Mr Loughnane. There was also speculation that the relationship between Mr Turnbull and Mr Loughnane was strained. The ABC understands Mr Loughnane told Mr Abbott that he would not be running another federal election campaign. Mr Loughnane has been the party's federal director since February 2003.

Let the tell all accounts begin.

ScoMo may not have realised that the treasurer's chair included a poison chalice:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/penalty-rates-under/6836080

He really doesn't sound confident and unfortunately all the facts and figures of the economic portfolio are not generated 'on water' so you can't just extemporise. :ohdear:

And just when you thought you'd heard it all before:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/investigation-reveals-nuclear/6835832

quote:

Investigation reveals ISIS nuclear links Thursday 8 October 2015 6:16AM

Earlier this year Islamic State militants warned they would soon be in possession of their first nuclear weapon. An ISIS propaganda magazine revealed the plan was to get hold of an atomic device from weapons dealers and use it against the West. A new investigation by the Associated Press reveals that smugglers with suspected Russian links are in fact shopping nuclear materials to Islamic State and other terrorist groups. The report says gangs in Moldova are driving a black market in nuclear materials with the explicit intent of connecting sellers to extremist groups.

AP's Chief correspondent in Turkey, Desmond Butler broke the story and he joins RN Breakfast.

hosed up if true.

Call me fixated, but just once I would like them to mention the two elephants in the room when discussing radicalisation (ie) Civilian killings in the Middle East and Assylum Seeker treatment:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/breakfast/tackling-youth-radicalism/6836046

quote:

Tackling youth radicalism Thursday 8 October 2015 7:52AM

Youth radicalisation is under scrutiny in the wake of last week's killing of a police employee by a 15 year old boy in Parramatta. The shooter attended the local public Arthur Phillip High School, which remains the focus of investigations by NSW Police. Former principal Silma Ihram is the founder of the Noor al Houda Islamic College, now called the Australian International Academy and she joins RN Breakfast.

So close (she actually mentions the Middle East and government policy in general terms). Resources for youth support services you say? http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-05-15/budget-2014-youth-unemployment/5455906 :laugh:

Hey that Blimp Smelting! :

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-08/labor-lists-10-infrastructure-projects-it-will-back-if-elected/6835660

quote:

Bill Shorten to announce 10 infrastructure projects Labor will back if they win next election by political reporter Dan Conifer Updated about 2 hours ago

Federal Labor is vowing to support a rail link to Sydney's new airport as well as Melbourne's Metro Rail project if the party wins the next election. Opposition Leader Bill Shorten will today announce 10 infrastructure projects Labor would back in government.

quote:

10 projects Labor would back

Rail line to Sydney's Badgerys Creek airport, connecting the Western and Inner West and South lines
Melbourne's Metro Rail
Brisbane's Cross River Rail project
Gold Coast Light Rail stage two
Ipswich Motorway
Pacific Highway
Queensland's Bruce Highway
Tasmania's Midland Highway
Electrification of the Gawler rail line in Adelaide
Pledge to support public transport in Perth, possibly the State Opposition's Metronet plan.

Now that is a difference between Turdbull and Squonking I can get behind.

This raises more questions than it answers. Let's hope nobody gets screwed over...(lol):

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-08/bluescope-workers-vote-yes/6836414

quote:

BlueScope Steel workers vote to forfeit jobs, working conditions in bid to prevent Port Kembla plant closure Updated 55 minutes ago

BlueScope Steel workers have voted in favour of a union-devised plan to forfeit jobs and working conditions in a bid to prevent the closure of the Port Kembla plant. In recent years the company, Australia's largest steel manufacturer, has faced financial troubles as the industry has been hit with weakening product demand and a global glut of cheap production. In August a review into operations at the New South Wales Port Kembla plant was launched, lead by BlueScope chief executive Paul O'Malley. The company announced a cost-cutting target of $200 million for the plant, with plans to cut up to 500 jobs from its workforce forming part of the strategy. The Australian Workers Union then, following weeks of intense mediation, presented a counter-strategy to Mr O'Malley yesterday afternoon. Part of the proposal would see workers agreeing to hundreds of job cuts to in turn save the plant from complete closure.

I hope part of the deal is some profit sharing...(lol)

And finally:

Don't click it ->http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-...672316b95b7d8a0

quote:

Sydney raids expose teen terror links THE AUSTRALIAN OCTOBER 8, 2015 12:00AM

Raid arrests may hold key to teen shooter (Now we've done with the jump to conclusions scare headline lets skip to the bit where we admit to speculation)

Two teenagers arrested by police yesterday following counter-�terrorism raids across western Sydney regularly attended one of the city�s mainstream mosques alongside the 15-year-old who shot dead a police employee on Friday. (Moslems go to mosque! Shocking!) The two, 18-year-old Raban Alou and a 16-year-old who cannot be named, were among five people arrested when hundreds of officers raided four homes in Sydney�s west yesterday morning. Detectives investigating the killing of 58-year-old Curtis Cheng are also pursuing possible links between others of those �arrested in yesterday�s raids, the gun used in the attack and one of Sydney�s most powerful Middle Eastern crime gangs.(Lebanesse builders are making our kids fat!) Both teenagers � the elder held by police overnight, the younger released without charge late last night � are of Kurdish descent, as was 15-year-old gunman Farhad Khalil Mohammad Jabar.(Told you we shouldn't ever trust a Kurd!) They also attended the same school, Arthur Phillip High in Parra�matta. Both had previously been identified by authorities during a counter-�terrorism operation in September last year. As police confirmed they �believed Jabar did not act alone, the revelation that both teenagers were previously known to detectives has raised questions about the ability of law-enforcement agencies to prevent terrorist attacks.(So even given the ridiculous powers they already had police couldn't do anything to prevent an attack? Best give them more!)

Federal Justice Minister �Michael Keenan said yesterday Australia was facing a �very difficult security environment� that had deteriorated over the past year, �largely because of events which are beyond our control�. He pointed to the threat posed by terrorist group �Islamic State, telling Sky News �that malignant entity that has now taken over parts of Syria and Iraq is exporting terror into Australia�. Australian Federal Police Acting Deputy Commissioner Neil Gaughan said yesterday that in recent years, counter-terrorism authorities had identified hundreds of �persons of interest�. �We have disrupted six attacks, we have a large number of persons of interest across the country and we have a large number of persons on the periphery of those investigations that we clearly cannot monitor 24/7,� he said. (If it is only hundreds, then I would actually argue you do have the resources, ASIO alone employes nearly 2000 people, Neil but hey wouldn't want to spoil one of the few opportunities to shill for more budget or authoritarian powers)

More than 200 officers from NSW police and the AFP were �involved in yesterday�s raids. Mr Alou was arrested at a house in Wentworthville, the same property where his older brother Kawa was detained in the Operation �Appleby raids in September last year, the largest counter-terrorism operation in Australia�s history. At the time, Kawa Alou was released without charge.

Sydney terror raids

Five men were arrested during raids in relation to the shooting of police worker Curtis Cheng last Friday. Picture: NSW Police.

More than 200 officers executed warrants in Guildford, Wentworthville, Merrylands and Marsfield on Wednesday morning. Picture: NSW Police.

The 16-year-old, who cannot be identified for legal reasons, was also identified in the Operation Appleby raids and was last year �arrested for waving an Islamic State flag and screaming �slaughter all the Christians� outside a Maronite school. He has expressed his support online for a range of potentially extremist �material, including Islamic State propaganda and that of notorious British preacher Anjem Chou�dary, who has been charged with encouraging support for the terrorist group. Both teenagers were allegedly regularly seen in the company of Jabar at Parramatta Mosque, where the gunman would attend prayers while skipping school and which was the last place he visited before Friday�s attack. Both are also believed to be associates of Omarjan Azari, who was arrested during Operation Appleby and whose Guildford home was also raided yesterday.

Mr Azari was subsequently charged with conspiring with Islamic State to attack a person at random on a Sydney street, kill them and film the attack. He has since been charged with conspiring with another Sydney man, Mohammad Ali Baryalei, to send money to Syria. Both Mr Azari and Mr Baryalei also used to pray at Parramatta Mosque. A third man arrested during yesterday�s raids, Mustafa Dirani, was targeted by police during Operation Appleby. He was released by police without charge yesterday afternoon, as was a fourth man, Talal Alameddine, who had been arrested along with his brother Rafat at their home in Merrylands. Rafat Alameddine was not detained as a result of the investigation into Mr Cheng�s killing, but was arrested in relation to an outstanding warrant for alleged fraud offences. The Alameddine home was raided in February by police, after a tip-off about a possible drive-by shooting at a Sydney trial.

One key focus of the investigation into Mr Cheng�s killing is how Jabar came to possess the .38 calibre revolver used in the attack. Detectives are pursuing the possibility it was obtained through a Middle Eastern crime gang. Neither Alameddine brother was charged over the February raids. A close relative of the two, who asked not to be named, said: �They can be a headache, they are too much of headache. Boys are boys these days, I have known them since they were born. It�s impossible for them to be involved in this terrorism stuff. They are silly � they go out, they�ll be mischievous, but not any of this.�

Other neighbours said the family had lived in the Merrylands home for about four years, and were regularly visited by police. �Three months ago, I think, there were 50 police vehicles here,� a neighbour said. �Police go to the house a lot.� At least one of those arrested yesterday was understood to have been a Shia Muslim. Islamic State is a Sunni organisation, suggesting the lure of the group is powerful enough to overrule established ethnic and religious ties. Asked whether her organisation had �dropped the ball� by failing to identify the links between Jabar and those arrested yesterday, NSW Police Deputy Commissioner Cath Burn said: �What is reasonable is to actually give an assurance that we are doing our utmost to keep everybody safe.�

Jabar had not been known as a threat to police before the attack, she said. �He was not a target to us � we can�t be with everybody every single second of the day.�

Obviously waiting until all the facts are known.

The Alameddine brothers have clearly been the subject of ongoing police targeting. That much can be established. The rest is speculation including the 'Middle East crime gang*' gun supply and yet the headline was - "Sydney raids expose teen terror links" They did nothing of the kind and reasonable people will wait until the inquests are complete before slapping such irresponsible labels onto things that aren't in anyway known or certain.

* "one of Sydney�s most powerful Middle Eastern crime gangs" So many we can only speculate on the most powerful of them :rolleyes:

# ? Oct 8, 2015 03:12

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

On the bright side we're getting some variety in absolutely terrible journalism. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/08/we-still-know-very-little-about-violent-extremism-and-your-theories-arent-helping

# ? Oct 8, 2015 03:30

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

What do you think is wrong with it?

# ? Oct 8, 2015 03:47

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

I think he agrees with the critique in the article he posted.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 03:54

open24hours: Jan 7, 2001

Amethyst posted:

I think he agrees with the critique in the article he posted.

Not really. Some of her points are reasonable but she's all over the place.

"...the current younger, fresher and angrier crop of violent extremists" reads like a quote from the Simpsons and "They were, as difficult as it may be to accept, active participants in their own radicalisation. Their choices were wrong and misguided, but they were their choices nonetheless." is an absolutely bizarre claim to make about to make about children bordering on victim blaming and seems at odds with an article saying we shouldn't speculate. Implying that that he was a willing participant with full agency is just as counterproductive as implying that he was brainwashed.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 04:05

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# ? Jun 5, 2024 21:18

Amethyst: Mar 28, 2004; I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

open24hours posted:

Not really. Some of her points are reasonable but she's all over the place.

"...the current younger, fresher and angrier crop of violent extremists" reads like a quote from the Simpsons and "They were, as difficult as it may be to accept, active participants in their own radicalisation. Their choices were wrong and misguided, but they were their choices nonetheless." is an absolutely bizarre claim to make about to make about children bordering on victim blaming and seems at odds with an article saying we shouldn't speculate. Implying that that he was a willing participant with full agency is just as counterproductive as implying that he was brainwashed.

She isn't referring to the kid there. She's referring to the research into 100 "lone" jihadists she has been conducting over the years at curtin university.

What she says about the kid amounts to "it's too early to say what caused this", which is the only reasonable thing anyone has said about this whole mess.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 04:10

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol: Not with a bang but with a whisper

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