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Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Old Fart posted:

Are you still hoping to be available to start a new job? Medical or not, employers in Nevada don't like a positive drug screen. I speak from experience here. Remember how you justified your car in part for all these interviews you'll be going on?

I'm a fan of weed, but this kind of thing should come out of your own discretionary, and in a way where you're actually accountable for it. It should also wait until you're stable financially and career-wise.

Yeah a good point. It's not as common as some industries, but it does still happen. The worst part is my upper or lower back seizes up every couple of months, and it just completely sucks when it does. The neck pain is basically constant, but manageable.

I dunno it's something I've wanted to bring up in here for awhile to get some thoughts on it. Especially because they just opened some dispensaries.

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Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Knyteguy posted:

I feel the same way :arghfist:. What's the value in this. Assuming the numbers are correct, what insight will this provide? How will it help me moving forward?
The value is accountability. And at this point, it's a puzzle I want to solve. I still don't understand how you just shrug off $2500.

You're behaving exactly like somebody who's hiding something. Call it an exercise in trust. You've cried wolf an awful lot in this thread.

Strep Vote
May 5, 2004

أنا أحب حليب الشوكولاتة

Knyteguy posted:

Insurance will probably be November, or that's the last month and then it's December.

I've definitely been honest with my therapist in the past. I know I said he told me to exercise, but we were working through some death's in my family for about a year before that. I feel like I managed to reach some closure in that department. I've got some anxiety stuff going on (which leads to the drinking), and my therapist let me know that Xanax would be a valid choice for me, but I'm just so reluctant to get meds, and especially benzodiazepines because of all the dependency problems that they can create.

After acknowledging the above I think CBT would be good for the money stuff. Change the way I think, feel, and act about money, or at least financial decisions. I've made progress here, but as you said I can probably make progress much more quickly otherwise. Since the time I was very little I've been told "that money is burning a hole in your pocket" so I'm not so sure it's purely emotional damage or scarring that affects my behavior, or if it's potentially a genetic predisposition, or what.

I'll keep this in mind. I'm having trouble figuring out more to say. Thanks for sharing. It does help to hear personal experiences.

Good, good. That helps a lot. What we've been taught has a huge impact on us. You feel a sense of urgency with money whenever you have it, that if you don't spend it it will go away. But IT WON'T. It doesn't go away UNLESS you spend it. This must be the differences in our upbringings, because when I have money I hold on to it like a fuckin' leech. I understand a reluctance to medicate with poo poo like Xanax, but it can be helpful. I've used it before and am not using it now, so I know it can be done. A bit of relief is worth a lot of impulsive heartache. But only you and your doctor(s) can make that decision.

A lot of helpful breathing, a lot of five minutes at a time, and you'll get there eventually. It takes a while and you and I are impatient people, but it's okay to take a while. I promise. Also I hope you manage to dodge that 20k in medical debt because gently caress America. :lenin: Seriously, though. I want to shake you sometimes. WHY A CAMERO???? I was all for a second car tbh, but a camero? You're of the opinion that if you're gonna do it, you might as well go all out, but that is not the only option my friend. Try going half out next time you feel the need to spend money. Because then the OTHER half of that money is there! To spend! When you have to! It's not BFC approved dogma, but eventually you'll get down to $2 vs. $1 spending if you do this. It helps and you're right, I do root for you and your sweet kid and wife, but I want to slap you silly most of the time.

poo poo. Carin' on the internet.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Quantum Finger posted:

Good, good. That helps a lot. What we've been taught has a huge impact on us. You feel a sense of urgency with money whenever you have it, that if you don't spend it it will go away. But IT WON'T. It doesn't go away UNLESS you spend it. This must be the differences in our upbringings, because when I have money I hold on to it like a fuckin' leech. I understand a reluctance to medicate with poo poo like Xanax, but it can be helpful. I've used it before and am not using it now, so I know it can be done. A bit of relief is worth a lot of impulsive heartache. But only you and your doctor(s) can make that decision.

A lot of helpful breathing, a lot of five minutes at a time, and you'll get there eventually. It takes a while and you and I are impatient people, but it's okay to take a while. I promise. Also I hope you manage to dodge that 20k in medical debt because gently caress America. :lenin: Seriously, though. I want to shake you sometimes. WHY A CAMERO???? I was all for a second car tbh, but a camero? You're of the opinion that if you're gonna do it, you might as well go all out, but that is not the only option my friend. Try going half out next time you feel the need to spend money. Because then the OTHER half of that money is there! To spend! When you have to! It's not BFC approved dogma, but eventually you'll get down to $2 vs. $1 spending if you do this. It helps and you're right, I do root for you and your sweet kid and wife, but I want to slap you silly most of the time.

poo poo. Carin' on the internet.

Yeah go big or go home has kind of been my mantra for a long time. Good in some ways, terrible in others. I think that perhaps you're right that I feel like money will disappear if it's not spent. That's probably one of my biggest problems, and I see it in many people around me also. That sounds like anxiousness as well.

I think I've gained some insight from this. I'm going to focus on my mental health as much as possible with my vacation this weekend.

Nice talking QF; thanks.

BattleHamster
Mar 18, 2009

Knyteguy posted:

I'm not going to upload two screenshots every time I share the budget. My intention here isn't to hide stuff. I find this incredibly petty.

I just started reading this thread and find this hilarious. Have you tried using the Snipping Tool to capture your YNAB screenshots? it comes pre-installed on Windows so you should already have it on your computer.

However, even if you are using PrintScreen & Paint it really shouldn't take more than a minute or two to grab and upload two screenshots instead of one. You could make that time back by no longer having to reply to all the people asking for the extra level of detail.

Whitlam
Aug 2, 2014

Some goons overreact. Go figure.
KG, if you can hold off on buying the home gym and weights equipment for a few months, you may be able to find a pretty much new (as in, used less than 10 times) set around the end of January/start of Feb on Craigslist or somewhere similar. Just get a cheap gym membership until then and bring a book for when you have to wait five minutes to use theirs.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Yeah if you are looking for a bench press with plates and barbells, you should be able to find a ton of those on craigslist. Everyone buys one and then they are huge and people have to get rid of them cheap.

BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.
(removed on reflection not good advice)

BarbarianElephant fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 13, 2015

Old Greg
Jun 16, 2008

Knyteguy posted:

We'll stick to budget with gifts somehow.

Nooooooooo. No no no no no no no.

"Somehow" is a TERRIFYING sentiment given you're only two weeks off a hiatus where you said gently caress it to a budget. All it takes is another emotional slump (that we all get because we're human) that just so happens to hit December 10th when you've been worrying how you're gonna get gifts for everybody on your tight budget and *poof* budget blowout!

You can fail, and there's only so much you can plan around this, but it in NO way has to be "Think on your feet." What's sunk you previous Christmases? Who are your problem relatives, even if it's something you think is dumb and won't affect you like "If I don't get Cousin Vinny something nice he'll crack jokes at me." Who can you tell "Hey. New baby. Hospital bill was 10k! (Leaving out you budgeted to have it paid off) So money's tight this Christmas. Can we do no gifts for each other?" Who should you start thinking of a lie emergency for who wouldn't listen to reason? "Holy poo poo Uncle Buck someone stole my identity! And now I'm waiting on a new debit card and don't get paid until 12/24 and literally can't buy you a present can I cook you something or frame a baby picture."

Identify your soft spots, and come up with ideas. I can't recall if you've discussed if you're a "Baby doesn't need toys from us for a Christmas they will never remember." or a "I wanna buy cute Xmas poo poo for my kid" type, but if you're the second type but planning to go without, identify it as a spot where you MAY feel a lot more strongly about buying poo poo closer to 12/25.

As for therapy chat, that's clarifying. Also, I like your idea for seeing a separate CBT for working on finance and impulse curtailing goals.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
On phone and there's no multiquote. I like the idea of buying used weights. They still run kind of expensive at 0.79-0.90 cents/lb generally, but maybe we can pick up a good deal. We've both started counting calories, so the first step has begun. I'm pretty stoked, and I aimed for a good enough type limit for calories (weight times 10). I like that I can apply the skills I've learned here towards that.

Old Greg posted:

Nooooooooo. No no no no no no no.

"Somehow" is a TERRIFYING sentiment given you're only two weeks off a hiatus where you said gently caress it to a budget. All it takes is another emotional slump (that we all get because we're human) that just so happens to hit December 10th when you've been worrying how you're gonna get gifts for everybody on your tight budget and *poof* budget blowout!

You can fail, and there's only so much you can plan around this, but it in NO way has to be "Think on your feet." What's sunk you previous Christmases? Who are your problem relatives, even if it's something you think is dumb and won't affect you like "If I don't get Cousin Vinny something nice he'll crack jokes at me." Who can you tell "Hey. New baby. Hospital bill was 10k! (Leaving out you budgeted to have it paid off) So money's tight this Christmas. Can we do no gifts for each other?" Who should you start thinking of a lie emergency for who wouldn't listen to reason? "Holy poo poo Uncle Buck someone stole my identity! And now I'm waiting on a new debit card and don't get paid until 12/24 and literally can't buy you a present can I cook you something or frame a baby picture."

Identify your soft spots, and come up with ideas. I can't recall if you've discussed if you're a "Baby doesn't need toys from us for a Christmas they will never remember." or a "I wanna buy cute Xmas poo poo for my kid" type, but if you're the second type but planning to go without, identify it as a spot where you MAY feel a lot more strongly about buying poo poo closer to 12/25.

As for therapy chat, that's clarifying. Also, I like your idea for seeing a separate CBT for working on finance and impulse curtailing goals.

I'm more of a baby won't remember, but it's ok to get a few toys.

Wife and I formulated a plan to take care of Christmas. I think we'll need about $150 to take care of everyone. There may be some soft spots there, so we'll go over it some more and see what's happening.

I've got to say I think this was a very productive day, and more so insightful. I feel like I have some renewed clarity and motivation from the conversation earlier with Quantum Finger. It turns out that November 1st we will have insurance, so I'll go over some of the resources posted here to try to find someone to talk with.

As I said on my phone, but I will post more tomorrow about Christmas planning. I think there's a little more to do.

n8r
Jul 3, 2003

I helped Lowtax become a cyborg and all I got was this lousy avatar
Stop buying stuff.

BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.
No point getting anything for your baby. Relatives will give him something. Thrift store toys are as good as new to a baby that age.

foxatee
Feb 27, 2010

That foxatee is always making a Piggles out of herself.
I think we bought maybe one item for our daughter her first Christmas. She got a poo poo ton of stuff from family. You don't need to buy your kid multiple gifts. Trust me: your house is going to fill up with kid junk faster than you think without you helping.

Iron Lung
Jul 24, 2007
Life.Iron Lung. Death.

n8r posted:

Stop buying stuff.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

n8r posted:

Stop buying stuff.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

n8r posted:

Stop buying stuff.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
Stop it. If it's planned and from discretionary then that's all that needs to be said. We're starting about 2.5 months early so we're ready for it.

n8r posted:

Stop buying stuff.

It all came out of my wife's discretionary ($50), and it's what she wanted to do. We're down 6 people on the list. I'll likely pay her back $25 out of my discretionary next month.

We have 6 more people to shop for - 3 young kids (6, 3, 2), our son, my wife's teenage brother (17), and my father in law. So that's all the planning left. Our plan is to do that with the remaining $100 from November and December. Teenager and father in law are the tough ones.

Re: My son's Christmas. I agree completely. 1 or 2 small gifts would be all that's necessary. It's important that it's understood that it's less for him and more for us.

Other baby goods:
Our plan is to use our left over baby fund at the end of the month to take care of a car seat and a winter jacket. Any input on these two things? We were looking at these last night while pricing things out.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007UYBOK4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=237Y59FHDDIB1&coliid=I1G7I32YH3RLSC&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QHOML6Y/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=237Y59FHDDIB1&coliid=I3EDXNUVTHKZEP&psc=1

I feel like we could cut costs on the jacket quite a bit. Thrift store? Unfortunately neither of these can wait until Christmas, but we're planning on taking care of it November.

e: the jacket early November. The car seat can wait until any time in November, or potentially December.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Oct 13, 2015

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
Aside: will be reading this this weekend: http://jamesclear.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/habits-v2.pdf

It has to do with a lot of the goal sticking, and it should help me stick with the stated goals in the thread, if it's effective teaching.

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

Knyteguy posted:

Stop it. If it's planned and from discretionary then that's all that needs to be said. We're starting about 2.5 months early so we're ready for it.


It all came out of my wife's discretionary ($50), and it's what she wanted to do. We're down 6 people on the list. I'll likely pay her back $25 out of my discretionary next month.

We have 6 more people to shop for - 3 young kids (6, 3, 2), our son, my wife's teenage brother (17), and my father in law. So that's all the planning left. Our plan is to do that with the remaining $100 from November and December. Teenager and father in law are the tough ones.

Re: My son's Christmas. I agree completely. 1 or 2 small gifts would be all that's necessary. It's important that it's understood that it's less for him and more for us.

Other baby goods:
Our plan is to use our left over baby fund at the end of the month to take care of a car seat and a winter jacket.

Any input on these two things?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007UYBOK4/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=237Y59FHDDIB1&coliid=I1G7I32YH3RLSC&psc=1
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QHOML6Y/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=237Y59FHDDIB1&coliid=I3EDXNUVTHKZEP&psc=1

I feel like we could cut costs on the jacket quite a bit. Thrift store? Unfortunately neither of these can wait until Christmas, but they we're planning on taking care of it early November.

http://www.onceuponachildreno.com

My wife shops there ALL the time for our 2 year old.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

OneWhoKnows posted:

http://www.onceuponachildreno.com

My wife shops there ALL the time for our 2 year old.

Thanks; that's where we were going to look at the Ergo carriers and other alternatives, but we haven't got down there yet. Do you recommend this for the jacket only, or the car seat as well? I've heard that used car seats are kind of a bad idea.

And I think it's important to be said - no hurry. We're trying to plan here so we're not suddenly surprised that we need a new car seat in a couple months. I believe he has 7-10lbs left of growth on his current seat. So we can take our time on this one. I think end of November at the latest on the car seat, and early November on the jacket.

edit:
So, we're trying guys. Props to my wife for thinking about what we'll need for the baby in advance, so we could formulate a plan around it.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Oct 13, 2015

OneWhoKnows
Dec 6, 2006
I choo choo choooose you!

Knyteguy posted:

Thanks; that's where we were going to look at the Ergo carriers and other alternatives, but we haven't got down there yet. Do you recommend this for the jacket only, or the car seat as well? I've heard that used car seats are kind of a bad idea.

And I think it's important to be said - no hurry. We're trying to plan here so we're not suddenly surprised that we need a new car seat in a couple months. I believe he has 7-10lbs left of growth on his current seat. So we can take our time on this one. I think end of November at the latest on the car seat, and early November on the jacket.

edit:
So, we're trying guys. Props to my wife for thinking about what we'll need for the baby in advance, so we could formulate a plan around it.

She gets clothes there, mostly. A few toys and an umbrella stroller, too.

Car seats we got from family as a new item. This is one item I'd consider getting newer, or if you do buy used make sure there are no recalls, defects, etc.

Robo Boogie Bot
Sep 4, 2011

Knyteguy posted:

On phone and there's no multiquote. I like the idea of buying used weights. They still run kind of expensive at 0.79-0.90 cents/lb generally, but maybe we can pick up a good deal. We've both started counting calories, so the first step has begun. I'm pretty stoked, and I aimed for a good enough type limit for calories (weight times 10). I like that I can apply the skills I've learned here towards that.

Just get a YMCA or Planet Fitness membership for a few months before you start buying equipment. Have either of you every been regular gym go-ers? You may very well not like it. You could prefer using machines and your wife might like cardio our taking classes instead. Maybe you'll both walk away from a trial period loving traditional barbell lifts. Either way, find out what you like before buying random equipment.

Otherwise this seems like a perfect time to overspend because you thought a squat rack would be helpful, but really you prefer a kettlebell program. And then you'll totally get around to selling the unused equipment to recoup the losses...... Sounds familiar?

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
Knyteguy: Why did you take $1700 from the emergency fund in September? What was the emergency?

SiGmA_X
May 3, 2004
SiGmA_X

Old Fart posted:

Knyteguy: Why did you take $1700 from the emergency fund in September? What was the emergency?
Playing congress. Stealing from one bucket to pay for the others.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

OneWhoKnows posted:

She gets clothes there, mostly. A few toys and an umbrella stroller, too.

Car seats we got from family as a new item. This is one item I'd consider getting newer, or if you do buy used make sure there are no recalls, defects, etc.

Alright, thanks. We'll find time to check them out sometime this week or weekend.


Are you guys referring to generally, or last night? Because I didn't even say we bought something last night. I know you guys are being supportive, but please clarify.

Robo Boogie Bot posted:

Just get a YMCA or Planet Fitness membership for a few months before you start buying equipment. Have either of you every been regular gym go-ers? You may very well not like it. You could prefer using machines and your wife might like cardio our taking classes instead. Maybe you'll both walk away from a trial period loving traditional barbell lifts. Either way, find out what you like before buying random equipment.

Otherwise this seems like a perfect time to overspend because you thought a squat rack would be helpful, but really you prefer a kettlebell program. And then you'll totally get around to selling the unused equipment to recoup the losses...... Sounds familiar?

I went 3-5 days a week for about 2 years when I was heavy into boxing and MMA. My wife went pretty solidly for 5-6 months.

Unfortunately YMCA and Planet Fitness are both pretty far from here. 20-30 minutes one way depending on traffic. We have some smaller non-franchise gyms that are cheap like that, but I don't think they have free weights. At least last time we were in there sometime in the past year.

I'll see if my wife would like classes more, or maybe she'll post. I think she liked Zumba and cardio kickboxing for awhile.

Old Fart posted:

Knyteguy: Why did you take $1700 from the emergency fund in September? What was the emergency?

There wasn't an emergency. I finagled the budget which included taking out of savings, unfortunately. The emergency was *wanted to buy stuff*. I'm disappointed in myself for that action, and similar actions in the past. I'm/we're trying our best to set ourselves up for success right now, both mentally and in the budget, so that doesn't happen again barring a justified emergency.

Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Oct 13, 2015

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Knyteguy posted:

Are you guys referring to generally, or last night? Because I didn't even say we bought something last night. I know you guys are being supportive, but please clarify.

In general. Just stop spending money. Every month, quarter, year you come up with $1000's of things you "have to have". You don't need any of them. I know you have justifications (you always have justifications), but the reality is you could probably have half your car paid off this year if you could just stop spending money.

I mean this gym thing is a prime example. I know it's been brought up before, and I'm definitely not advocating that you should be unhealthy, but it's free to go ride your bike (with your wife and kid make it a family activity) . Are you going to see the mad gainz and get as swole as if you chugged protein powder and became a gym rat? No. But you don't really need to.

Time and time and time and time and time again you prove yourself to have the mentality of "throw money at the problem".

-I have back pain -> Need $300 medical marijuana card and to start smoking weed
-Want to get in shape -> Our only two options are $100 a month on gym membership or spending $$$ on a home gym

Those are literally prime examples that have come up in the last two weeks. If we go through your thread I guarantee you there's a list >100 where you either threw money at a problem or wanted to throw money at a problem.

I'm like a broken record here (which is why I hardly ever post in your thread anymore), but your attitude doesn't and hasn't ever tied to your "financial goals".

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

Bugamol posted:

In general. Just stop spending money. Every month, quarter, year you come up with $1000's of things you "have to have". You don't need any of them. I know you have justifications (you always have justifications), but the reality is you could probably have half your car paid off this year if you could just stop spending money.

I mean this gym thing is a prime example. I know it's been brought up before, and I'm definitely not advocating that you should be unhealthy, but it's free to go ride your bike (with your wife and kid make it a family activity) . Are you going to see the mad gainz and get as swole as if you chugged protein powder and became a gym rat? No. But you don't really need to.

Time and time and time and time and time again you prove yourself to have the mentality of "throw money at the problem".

-I have back pain -> Need $300 medical marijuana card and to start smoking weed
-Want to get in shape -> Our only two options are $100 a month on gym membership or spending $$$ on a home gym

Those are literally prime examples that have come up in the last two weeks. If we go through your thread I guarantee you there's a list >100 where you either threw money at a problem or wanted to throw money at a problem.

I'm like a broken record here (which is why I hardly ever post in your thread anymore), but your attitude doesn't and hasn't ever tied to your "financial goals".

So, which is it then? Do I budget for the things I want like everyone is saying and buy them responsibly within the budget, or do I try to go austere again? I feel like this is contrary to what everyone else has been saying, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006

Knyteguy posted:

So, which is it then? Do I budget for the things I want like everyone is saying and buy them responsibly within the budget, or do I try to go austere again? I feel like this is contrary to what everyone else has been saying, but perhaps I'm wrong.

My opinion has always been set a reasonable budget (you can look at my post history) and stick to it. If that means doubling your discretionary to $200, but you ALWAYS stick to <$200 then do it. Stop playing shell games with money. We under spent in electricity so we overbought groceries! Or whatever. Just set a budget, hunker the gently caress down for 12 months, and come out the other end.

EDIT: Also stop being a lazy gently caress and track your spending. No more of this "it's too hard bullshit". You've also proven time and time again that when you stop tracking you start overspending.

dreesemonkey
May 14, 2008
Pillbug

Bugamol posted:

Time and time and time and time and time again you prove yourself to have the mentality of "throw money at the problem".

-I have back pain -> Need $300 medical marijuana card and to start smoking weed
-Want to get in shape -> Our only two options are $100 a month on gym membership or spending $$$ on a home gym

Those are literally prime examples that have come up in the last two weeks. If we go through your thread I guarantee you there's a list >100 where you either threw money at a problem or wanted to throw money at a problem.

Just wanted to say that I agree with this.

KG I get that you're stressed / depressed. I really think if you start making some progress here and there you'll be able to turn things around. I would recommend two things specifically:

1. Make an effort to take walks, either at work or with your family or both. This gives you time to think, is good for you, and best of all free.
2. You and your wife need to plan plan plan plan your budget. You both need to be a part of it to keep each other accountable. You NEED to stop assuming $XYZ should be enough for gifts or pets or whatever. Be detailed and thorough.

If you make an effort on either of these things and it starts to click, you're going to feel much more in control, your mood will improve and you will be much less stressed. You have to make an effort.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Knyteguy posted:

There wasn't an emergency. I finagled the budget which included taking out of savings, unfortunately. The emergency was *wanted to buy stuff*.
What stuff did you want to buy? The car didn't come out of that money. It looks like it was mostly to compensate for the missing $2500 from August.

What did you buy in August that required raiding the emergency fund in September?

Old Greg
Jun 16, 2008

Knyteguy posted:

So, which is it then? Do I budget for the things I want like everyone is saying and buy them responsibly within the budget, or do I try to go austere again? I feel like this is contrary to what everyone else has been saying, but perhaps I'm wrong.

Both, honestly. People are suggesting you need to be better at self-assessing which of these is what you should do. If you take walks and pick up a free exercise program online, will you follow it and achieve your health goals while spending zero? Or will you chafe and then blow $300 on a home gym in December? If it's number two, then budgeting is better than breaking down and spending.

But overall you should be picking more free solutions to problems than you are now. So it's worth figuring out which situations "free" is workable for.

interrodactyl
Nov 8, 2011

you have no dignity

Knyteguy posted:

So, which is it then? Do I budget for the things I want like everyone is saying and buy them responsibly within the budget, or do I try to go austere again? I feel like this is contrary to what everyone else has been saying, but perhaps I'm wrong.

This is a false dichotomy and a hosed up mindset. You're not choosing between "oh god I can't buy anything" and "cram everything into the budget it's fine i'll just add $X00"; it's a two-step mindset change. If you have a problem, you need to think about it two ways:

1. Can I solve this without spending money on it?
2. If it's impossible to, what do I need to re-allocate from my budget - for which the total number should not go up - to make this happen? Almost always, this means taking money from your discretionary so you can solve this in X months.

You need to change your mindset to being able to foresee, plan for, and solve problems while saving money, and then if you must spend your money to solve the problem, you plan it out in your budget. Just having the budget isn't useful if you don't try to save your money. You have so far done very very little of the first part (thinking about your problems in depth), and as a result, you stress about things and rush into buying stuff to solve the problem. Slow your roll, really consider things, and think about straying from your budget more as a last resort.

ITM
Oct 23, 2010
You need to stick to your goals Knyte. Is your goal to pay off your car quickly? Cool, the budget just needs to give you a reasonably comfortable life until you do that right? It needs to get you things for your baby and maintain your household and some discretionary so you can have some little luxuries in the meantime. If you realise, well okay, we'd really like to [get a second car/go on a small vacation] in the meantime, we're happy to put the car pay off deadline back [x] time to do that, then cool.

The problem is when you heard "If you really wanted a second car you should have planned and budgeted for it" instead of being like yes, I will budget when I realise I need something in the future, you went like "Well I need free weights and weed and a holiday and new couch so I just have to budget those things in right?" Well, yes, if those are things you absolutely couldn't live with out until the cars paid off, but it seems like there mostly trivial and you could find other ways to accomplish them without money, or you could deal with your current couch until the car is paid off. I'm all for the vacation because I think the budget should include things your wife wants too, but if you two would prefer free weights to the grand canyon then budget that instead, but decide as a team. You're still living in the shadow of your debt and I don't think you should be trying to have everything.

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal
We have 4-6 months to save for the gym, and there are stipulations behind it including counting calories religiously up until that point, and also 3 days of exercising per week.

These are things I and we want. Why didn't anyone bring this up earlier if this is how you felt? My wife and I have already set the plan in motion. Buying a weight set is in fact cheaper than any gym over just a short time considering two people, so there's that too. It's not as cheap as riding a bike, but bikes do have maintenance costs that are very real as I found out from a period of bike commuting. Double that for two bikes and two people, and add a bike trailer for the baby.

And it may be a false dichotomy how I phrased it, but it's also the truth based on my history and personal introspection. I think that this is accepting "good" rather than perfect. Of course there are a near infinite number of other options about what to do with our money, but which option is the best to set us up to succeed? I believe it's this one personally, or something very close to it.

Also, probably most importantly here, what harm will there be in saving money for 4-6 months? We can always back out in that time period, which is kind of the whole point of taking so long to do this.

Finally, if we set each of our discretionary categories to $200 a month instead of this, we will spend more money, for more useless junk, in a quicker time period, without allowing true thought over purchases. A gym set is a potential extra $100 a month over a defined period, and $200 in discretionary is an extra $200 a month over a limitless period. What I think is great about this, is after we decide what to do with the money from the weight set, regardless of whether we buy it or not, we can put that extra $100 a month into another savings goal.

I thought all of this was covered and talked over? Now I'm getting confused.

BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.

Knyteguy posted:

So, which is it then? Do I budget for the things I want like everyone is saying and buy them responsibly within the budget, or do I try to go austere again? I feel like this is contrary to what everyone else has been saying, but perhaps I'm wrong.

These are not mutually exclusive. You are approaching austerity like a bad dieter; you eat nothing but boiled beans for a month and drive yourself mad, then you binge on cake and steak until all your weight that you lost came back. You need to have "nice things" as a carrot, but not just to indulge in them all the time. Sensible dieters have "cheat days" when they can go out and eat steak in cream sauce, but that doesn't mean that every day is a cheat day.

What you need to do is really follow the budget. So budget for that Grand Canyon trip you are hankering after. But if you blow your discretionary on small stuff, take it out of the trip fund. That way, you have immediate consequences to you that really mean something. If you blow your $50 a month you are saving for a vacation on cigarettes and alcohol, you don't get to spend it on a nice vacation.

As for the weight set, most people who buy these things use them briefly then get bored. People think they will make it easier to get fit, but they don't. They are only really appropriate if you have done all the exercises you can do without weights, and reached the limits of what can be achieved that way. Weights help you take it to the next level. Are you already as fit as you can get with home exercises?

BarbarianElephant fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 13, 2015

Knyteguy
Jul 6, 2005

YES to love
NO to shirts


Toilet Rascal

ITM posted:

You need to stick to your goals Knyte. Is your goal to pay off your car quickly? Cool, the budget just needs to give you a reasonably comfortable life until you do that right? It needs to get you things for your baby and maintain your household and some discretionary so you can have some little luxuries in the meantime. If you realise, well okay, we'd really like to [get a second car/go on a small vacation] in the meantime, we're happy to put the car pay off deadline back [x] time to do that, then cool.

The problem is when you heard "If you really wanted a second car you should have planned and budgeted for it" instead of being like yes, I will budget when I realise I need something in the future, you went like "Well I need free weights and weed and a holiday and new couch so I just have to budget those things in right?" Well, yes, if those are things you absolutely couldn't live with out until the cars paid off, but it seems like there mostly trivial and you could find other ways to accomplish them without money, or you could deal with your current couch until the car is paid off. I'm all for the vacation because I think the budget should include things your wife wants too, but if you two would prefer free weights to the grand canyon then budget that instead, but decide as a team. You're still living in the shadow of your debt and I don't think you should be trying to have everything.

The money we're talking on all of these things set the goal of paying off the car back, by like a month or two. Even the couch I'm just talking a Goodwill variety.

And my biggest thing here: what will set us back more? Breaking the budget every single month (often to the tune of hundreds or sometimes even thousands of dollars), or deciding "OK we're doing this budgeting stuff which kind of sucks, but it enables us to get some things we want, and we have a time period to pay off the car."

Because the whole point of this is to allow us to hit our goals. I'm trying to set this up into a give and take. I feel like this is absolutely necessary to break us out of this absurd cycle of breaking the budget every month. And so far it's been the most successful budgeting month we've had to date.

Bugamol
Aug 2, 2006
If you can just stick to a budget for 12 months without any games I think you'll be surprised where you end up.

To comment - I think your current budget looks good and I wouldn't change it... Just... Stick to it. Consistently. For many months.

I'd love to see 3 months in a row where you're under budget on all of your categories.

Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013
Hey KG, post the August numbers. If you honestly can't figure out where this $2500 went, then either (a) you've got a serious problem that you need to face head-on, and you can't do that until you reveal what it is, or (b) you have $2500 credit coming to you, which would be awesome.

I'm really good with numbers. Just isolate transactions from August and sort by category. I'll do the rest. You can PM me the screenshots if that makes you more comfortable.

I mean, you keep saying you're going to hold yourself accountable, but this is a huge loving slip up somewhere and you're trying really hard to weasel out of it. What is it? Animal surgery? Cocaine and alcohol bender? Sex addiction? Baccarat?

How does $2500 just go missing, and why don't you care about figuring it out? That's like 25% of your car debt, isn't it?

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

He already confirmed that YNABs report shows $6659 in outflows, and it's neatly split up into budget categories, so he knows where the missing money went.

Tamba fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 13, 2015

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Old Fart
Jul 25, 2013

Tamba posted:

He already confirmed that YNABs report shows $6659 in outflows, and it's neatly split up into budget categories, so he knows where the missing money went.
He didn't show all the categories. The part he showed doesn't add up to the outflows he accidentally revealed with the headers.

When asked about it, he seems to give a different story each time. For example:

Knyteguy posted:

One of the reasons this query has driven me crazy is because I already did. I've posted two screenshots including August with headers up and headers down + hidden categories. Like 2 weeks ago. However it doesn't make sense, so I've been trying to figure it out.
Not only did he not post full screenshots, but he claims he can't figure it out. But other evidence suggests he's aware of it and has been trying to hide it. Maybe he's trying to hide it from his wife. I don't know. Each time he gives another evasive answer about it, I trust him even less.

Just seems weird that two years into a budgeting thread, he wants us to shrug our shoulders at $2500 that mysteriously went missing because "the past is the past, and this time will be different from all the other times I said that this time would be different, pinkie swear." This discrepancy is on the front end of a significant binge period, so if he's serious about getting better, wouldn't identifying a possible trigger be beneficial?

At this point I'm really just more curious than anything, because of how slippery he's being. Must be something juicy!

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