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Flowers For Algeria posted:You're not a normal or reasonable person if your first reflex is to take out a gun and confront a robber who is in your house. Vacate the premises or lock yourself in, call the police. This is a safer course of action both for you and the robber, and that way you won't shoot your wife who is going up the stairs after taking a leak in the downstairs bathroom. Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber?
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Oct 13, 2015 21:24
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various cheeses posted:Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber? i can see how this would be a baffling and, frankly, disgusting thing if your intent is for someone to put themselves into a position so that you can legally murder them. if someone takes your xbox, they do not deserve to live, and you have the right to end their miserable, worm-like existence in fact, it's frankly unfair that once this bandit is apprehended by the authorities, that they cannot then execute the miscreant on the spot and throw his wretched dusky corpse in a ditch with the other vermin boner confessor fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 13, 2015 21:25
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various cheeses posted:Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber? No, you should immediately and recklessly escalate any and all bumps in the night into a shoot out. Don't let those raccoons get away with your trash.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:26
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President Kucinich posted:Other than the increased risk of dying or inadvertently killing a loved one. You can break your neck getting out of bed every day too. Statistically, there are some non-gun ways to make your home more safe against burglars, such as investing in doors that are harder to kick in (which will make the cops give you extra charges when they kick in your door on a no-knock raid) and using a home security system (which is enormously expensive and generally beyond the means of poor people). Or, I guess, live in an area with a low crime rate. Again, out of the reach of many poor people. Speaking of the police it is really wierd to me seeing some of the same people who say cops are more dangerous than criminals over in the whine about cops thread posting here saying you should rely on them to protect your home.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:26
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various cheeses posted:Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber? Yes I did. You shouldn't be lusting for robber death, at any rate. Your aim shouldn't be to murder, or even maim another person eve if he is robbing your house. Because no robbery warrants death and if you belive the contrary you are pretty hosed up in the head (in fact no crime warrants death).
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Oct 13, 2015 21:28
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Flowers For Algeria posted:You're not a normal or reasonable person if your first reflex is to take out a gun and confront a robber who is in your house. Vacate the premises or lock yourself in, call the police. This is a safer course of action both for you and the robber, and that way you won't shoot your wife who is going up the stairs after taking a leak in the downstairs bathroom. For reducing your exposure risk to criminal charges, it's best to barricade yourself, announce that you are armed, call the police, and sit tight. Different states have different interpretations of the law around when you can use lethal force against an intruder. In Texas, Joe Horn shot and killed two burglars who were burglarizing a neighbor's house, claimed self-defense, and was cleared of wrong doing. Where I live, in Michigan, a couple years back a Detroiter shot and killed a woman banging on his door at night, claimed self-defense, and was convicted of 2nd degree murder.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:28
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how much monetary value does a person have to take for it to be OK to kill them what's the tipping point
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Oct 13, 2015 21:29
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President Kucinich posted:Other than the increased risk of dying or inadvertently killing a loved one. By touching a gun, you are consigning yourself to pure chance. No amount of safety, training or proper handling can unbind you from the wheel of fortune
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Oct 13, 2015 21:29
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Gun owners should, instead of relying on the possibility the burglar is ready and waiting for them so they can end their lives, just use their rights more directly.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:29
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Flowers For Algeria posted:(in fact no crime warrants death). Spoken like someone who has never had to defend themselves from anything in their life, ever, other than harsh language.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:29
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-Troika- posted:You can break your neck getting out of bed every day too. It doesn't have much to do with police and everything to do with general principles of dealing with a home invasion the best way possible so as to avoid injury. Staying put, making sure to be quiet, remaining calm, and making sure all person's living in the home know what the plan is in such a situation are bog standard points. And yes police are poo poo, but we can make them even shittier with our votes!
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Oct 13, 2015 21:29
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-Troika- posted:Statistically, there are some non-gun ways to make your home more safe against burglars, such as investing in doors that are harder to kick in (which will make the cops give you extra charges when they kick in your door on a no-knock raid) and using a home security system (which is enormously expensive and generally beyond the means of poor people). Lol no they're not. A home security system is around $30 a month, and unlike guns actually works to deter burglars when you're not home.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:30
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Oct 13, 2015 21:30
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Snowman Crossing posted:Where I live, in Michigan, a couple years back a Detroiter shot and killed a woman banging on his door at night, claimed self-defense, and was convicted of 2nd degree murder. this is liberal insanity. banging on someone's door in the middle of the night is a horrible and risky crime
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Oct 13, 2015 21:30
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Snowman Crossing posted:For reducing your exposure risk to criminal charges, it's best to barricade yourself, announce that you are armed, call the police, and sit tight. Different states have different interpretations of the law around when you can use lethal force against an intruder. In Texas, Joe Horn shot and killed two burglars who were burglarizing a neighbor's house, claimed self-defense, and was cleared of wrong doing. Where I live, in Michigan, a couple years back a Detroiter shot and killed a woman banging on his door at night, claimed self-defense, and was convicted of 2nd degree murder. Oh, wow, I didn't think I'd see someone stick up for that guy. I guess you live on the Dutch Coast, then? Usually the north suburbs aren't quite this crude.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:31
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Monkey Fracas posted:how much monetary value does a person have to take for it to be OK to kill them what color are they?
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Oct 13, 2015 21:31
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various cheeses posted:Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber? Not confronting them is also safer for you, numb nuts.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:32
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-Troika- posted:Spoken like someone who has never had to defend themselves from anything in their life, ever, other than harsh language. How many people have you killed, and do you masturbate over their deaths collectively or individually?
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Oct 13, 2015 21:32
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SedanChair posted:By touching a gun, you are consigning yourself to pure chance. No amount of safety, training or proper handling can unbind you from the wheel of fortune Yep. Merely owning a gun makes it inevitable that you or someone you love will be slain by it. You won't know when, but it's always just hanging there like the sword of loving Damocles.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:32
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Lemming posted:Not confronting them is also safer for you, numb nuts. i dont think you understand the point of owning a weapon. it is to ensure that nobody ever emasculates me or challenges my authority on my own private property. if you can't have that, why are you even alive? Snowman Crossing posted:Yep. Merely owning a gun makes it inevitable that you or someone you love will be slain by it. You won't know when, but it's always just hanging there like the sword of loving Damocles. inevitable is a strong word. you're looking for probable. owning a gun makes it far more probable that it will be used against you or a family member, but this is a small price to pay for personal security and pieces of mind
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Oct 13, 2015 21:33
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various cheeses posted:Did you really just say I should try to create a safer environment for a robber? The fact that you view 'do not escalate a situation', which is part of basic firearms training in literally every form, as 'OH SO WHAT I JUST ROLL OUT THE RED CARPET FOR CRIME' is probably the most telling post itt.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:33
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Lemming posted:Not confronting them is also safer for you, numb nuts. if only there was some way to unbind yourself from pure chance nope, all encounters simply place you, your assailant and a gun into a giant metaphysical blender and it's entirely random who pops out at the end
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Oct 13, 2015 21:33
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You'd think gun owners would just call for legalized dueling if they wanted to get their killing on, but I guess they are all stupid beyond belief.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:34
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Effectronica posted:You'd think gun owners would just call for legalized dueling if they wanted to get their killing on, but I guess they are all stupid beyond belief. well they do, but most people don't consider it a duel if there's only one duelist
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Oct 13, 2015 21:35
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Effectronica posted:You'd think gun owners would just call for legalized dueling if they wanted to get their killing on, but I guess they are all stupid beyond belief. I'm effectronica, I'm here to issue vague death threats and make sense And I'm all out of sense
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Oct 13, 2015 21:35
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SedanChair posted:if only there was some way to unbind yourself from pure chance Look at Quick-Draw McGraw over here.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:35
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-Troika- posted:Statistically, there are some non-gun ways to make your home more safe against burglars, such as investing in doors that are harder to kick in (which will make the cops give you extra charges when they kick in your door on a no-knock raid) and using a home security system (which is enormously expensive and generally beyond the means of poor people). Or, I guess, live in an area with a low crime rate. Again, out of the reach of many poor people. Yes, it is a well-known fact that poorer areas are the prime target for home invasions.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:36
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various cheeses posted:Let's discuss why guns are so cool here instead of the USPOL thread. Just a brief stop on the way to the gas chamber folks! i think guns are mechanically neat and enjoyable to shoot for fun the problem is all these people who seem to think they'll be using them to murder nogoodnicks like they were the punisher and also all the people who are nogoodnicks who get guns very easily because of our ridiculous laws
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Oct 13, 2015 21:37
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yes, it is a well-known fact that poorer areas are the prime target for home invasions. "statistically this isn't even happening right now"
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Oct 13, 2015 21:37
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yes I did. You shouldn't be lusting for robber death, at any rate. Your aim shouldn't be to murder, or even maim another person eve if he is robbing your house. Because no robbery warrants death and if you belive the contrary you are pretty hosed up in the head (in fact no crime warrants death). The ideal situation is to scare the guy off, but if he keeps coming for some reason, yeah I'm going to defend myself and shoot til he stops. Then I'm going to get him an ambulance if he's alive. A guy committing a robbery is not the victim here. Holy jeez.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:38
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Are you really trying to prove a point with a depiction of the Wild West that's completely devoid of diversity
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Oct 13, 2015 21:38
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"Honey, please, can't we just have a living room that doesn't look like an obstacle course? Just for my mom's birthday?" "I'm preparing the battlespace, dammit. Now pass me the caltrops."
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Oct 13, 2015 21:38
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Talking about the inherent value of human life is not a productive topic of conversation when talking to gun fanboys. A better thing to point out is that their guns are worse than useless in most robberies and it's not just about them.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:39
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Effectronica posted:Oh, wow, I didn't think I'd see someone stick up for that guy. I guess you live on the Dutch Coast, then? Usually the north suburbs aren't quite this crude. No, I think the person in both examples should have been convicted. I was trying to illustrate how the pendulum swings between states. The guy in Texas goes free where the guy in Michigan, who at least could have possibly perceived a threat to himself (unlike Joe Horn) was rightfully convicted.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:40
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various cheeses posted:The ideal situation is to scare the guy off, but if he keeps coming for some reason, yeah I'm going to defend myself and shoot til he stops. Then I'm going to get him an ambulance if he's alive. the ideal situation is to not seek out a person and potentially have to shoot him, if there are alternatives available
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Oct 13, 2015 21:40
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Flowers For Algeria posted:Yes, it is a well-known fact that poorer areas are the prime target for home invasions. Also homes where only a woman or a woman with kids are present.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:40
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various cheeses posted:The ideal situation is to scare the guy off, but if he keeps coming for some reason, yeah I'm going to defend myself and shoot til he stops. Then I'm going to get him an ambulance if he's alive. No, you are going to die, and put the lives of your family in jeopardy. Please read this for actual advice on a) how home invaders actually operate, and b) how to react when faced with home invasion : http://www.crimedoctor.com/homeinvasion.htm
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Oct 13, 2015 21:41
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for example, one alternative is to consider that an xbox and a tv are not worth a person's life, and merely lock your door and call the police
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Oct 13, 2015 21:41
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Tezzor posted:Talking about the inherent value of human life is not a productive topic of conversation when talking to gun fanboys. ~ Tezzor, 2015. Flowers For Algeria posted:No, you are going to die, and put the lives of your family in jeopardy.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:41
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Literally The Worst posted:the ideal situation is to not seek out a person and potentially have to shoot him, if there are alternatives available Wrong, fucker. Slaughtering subhumans is the work of all decent men, and such women as have the stomach for it. Nits make lice.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:41
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