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Zakmonster posted:Yes. If I am not horribly wrong, there are some tribes/villages in Borneo who are still animists.  Flagrant Abuse posted:What is generally considered "necessary"? If someone has some kind of disfiguration but it doesn't actually impede their functioning, would that qualify? What some something like gender dysphoria, where the medical community says one thing but large parts of the general public, especially those who are religious, say something else? Hair transplants for balding people? Hair dye, whether to cover up grey or to make it rainbow or something? There are two ways Islam in general is okay with any disfigurement or congenital condition or similar being fixed. One is if the condition is physically harmful. The other is if the condition is mentally harmful. Even conservative scholars that I've read, the majority have been extremely lenient on what constitutes mentally harmful. For example: You don't think your spouse is attracted to you? That counts. I really have not read anything that says otherwise that didn't strike me for other reasons as being kind of rear end in a top hat-y, even the conservatives who I simply disagree with are pretty generous on this topic. There is a subtle but constant thread in Islam about loving oneself and being comfortable in ones own skin that fascinates me. EDIT: Speaking of Khomeini, he was a really kind of interesting figure. In some ways he was, by what we would consider Islamic fundamentalist standards, incredibly liberal. Women could ride camels in Muhammad's time? Well, clearly cars are the modern camel, so women can drive. They also make up the majority of university students, and there was at one point (might still be) an all-female firefighting brigade. But then on the other hand you have the fact that legally their testimony is half the value of that of a man, and if a woman dies her life is worth half the compensation that a man's would be. In a lot of ways, the manner in which he imposed his idea of government is a bizarre mix of the more liberal side of conservative Islam and hardcore "what the gently caress" (by moderate standards) conservative Islam. Tendai fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 04:20
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Tendai posted:This is the biggest difference between "Standard Christianity" and Islam that I can think about in terms of relations between husband and wife; there's more or less no shame attached to sex in marriage, the act itself is not sinful. Anyway, I'm glad this thread is here, nice work. My current read is Michael Muhammad Khan's "Why I Am A Salafi" and if any Muslims posting here get around to reading it I'd love to see your take.
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Oct 14, 2015 04:59
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Bolocko posted:Have to interject: this reeeally depends on what you mean by "Standard Christianity", and I think it may be one of those cases where some vocal American Protestant minorities and misteaching/misunderstanding of Catholic/Christian theology are distorting the message. For most, I think, the act of sex is neither shameful nor sinful but in fact a beautiful gift from God, provided it's within the correct boundaries (i.e. married husband+wife & w/o contraceptives (depending)). I've added that book to my reading list which means that I'll get to it in five years since my "to read" list has now come to resemble an anthology in and of itself 
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Oct 14, 2015 05:14
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Flagrant Abuse posted:What is generally considered "necessary"? If someone has some kind of disfiguration but it doesn't actually impede their functioning, would that qualify? What some something like gender dysphoria, where the medical community says one thing but large parts of the general public, especially those who are religious, say something else? Hair transplants for balding people? Hair dye, whether to cover up grey or to make it rainbow or something? Disfigurations are fine, if it impedes your social or mental health. Islam is generally lenient on this. I'm not sure about hair transplants, but hair dye is fine but only if you dye it to your original colour. Women have more leniency, and can dye their hair brown or red or black. Gender dysphoria is also pretty muddled. I have heard of people here who have undergone gender reassignment surgery and no one seems to really care. I've never had reason or occasion to ask someone more knowledgeable about this, however. Regarding sex and birth control: As far as I know, birth control is allowed. Condoms and spermicides are definitely fine, but not the pill (because it alters body chemistry, but if you need to take it for health reasons then that's okay). The main rationale is that children are a huge responsibility and it's understood that not every couple has the finances to take care of one.
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Oct 14, 2015 05:44
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Flagrant Abuse posted:What is generally considered "necessary"? If someone has some kind of disfiguration but it doesn't actually impede their functioning, would that qualify? What some something like gender dysphoria, where the medical community says one thing but large parts of the general public, especially those who are religious, say something else? Hair transplants for balding people? Hair dye, whether to cover up grey or to make it rainbow or something? Necessity can be as you asked in your question, a disfiguration that has a profound negative impact on someone's quality of life or function. Hair dye is not considered a permanent alteration or disfiguration of your body and is allowed. Temporary tattoos are allowed also. Henna tattoos are quite popular among Muslims during the 'Eid festivals.  As far as "who decides" what the threshold is for this allowance it can be debatable. In some Muslim countries the laws may be more clear. We in non-Muslim countries use scholars for consultation and respect their wisdom, but ultimately there is no clergy in Islam. That means that if I feel it impacts my life to the level that I need to change something, it is ultimately my decision and between Allah and myself. I am responsible for my own actions and have to live with the consequences, not some scholar. Some examples for legitimate body alteration, can be plastic surgery to repair scarring caused by accidents, transplants (internal and external), etc. Cosmetic surgeries such as hair transplants are probably more a grey area and more dependent on the reason why you want to do it. Generally, vanity for women is more acceptable (they get to wear things forbidden for men) but for men it is something that is often discouraged, but yet some do it. In the end, where the decisions are not made clear for us, it is a decision between us and God.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:52
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Bolocko posted:Have to interject: this reeeally depends on what you mean by "Standard Christianity", and I think it may be one of those cases where some vocal American Protestant minorities and misteaching/misunderstanding of Catholic/Christian theology are distorting the message. For most, I think, the act of sex is neither shameful nor sinful but in fact a beautiful gift from God, provided it's within the correct boundaries (i.e. married husband+wife & w/o contraceptives (depending)). Here is a piece of Muslim literature on the subject for ya, translated by Sir Richard Burton 1889  quote:The Perfumed Garden of Sensual Delight by Muḥammad ibn Muḥammad al-Nafzawi is a fifteenth-century Arabic sex manual and work of erotic literature. http://www.sacred-texts.com/sex/garden/ Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 08:00
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I think a copy of that is held in an Amazon wishlist, but thanks ever for the link.The Perfumed Garden of Sensual Delight posted:Know, O Vizir (to whom God be merciful), that women differ in their natural dispositions: there are women who are worthy of all praise; and there are, on the other hand, women who only merit contempt.
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Oct 14, 2015 09:40
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Ahahaha, drat. Men don't get off lightly either:quote:Know, O My Brother (to whom God be merciful), that a man who is misshapen, of coarse appearance, and whose member is short, thin and flabby, is contemptible in the eyes of women. Amun Khonsu posted:That means that if I feel it impacts my life to the level that I need to change something, it is ultimately my decision and between Allah and myself. I am responsible for my own actions and have to live with the consequences, not some scholar. EDIT -- The next time someone asks me "What do Muslim women look for in a man?" I'm going to just leer, wiggle my eyebrows, and suggestively say "stamina."
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Oct 14, 2015 14:56
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Amun Khonsu posted:Shari'ah is a collection laws that govern Muslims personally, socially and/or nationally. It is developed based on the Qur'an, assorted Hadith and in consultation with experts in technology, medicine, economy and many other facets of modern life. Roughly 10% of Shariah is religious law that cannot be changed, such as the 5 pillars of Islam, our 6 basic beliefs and things related to religion. The rest of Shari'ah is not religious and can evolve based on the times, necessity or people who submit themselves to Shari'ah, such as civil and criminal law. Can you go into some of the specifics of the 10% that's held in common?
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Oct 14, 2015 15:15
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ashgromnies posted:Can you go into some of the specifics of the 10% that's held in common? There are things considered fard that vary by school of thought and these arguments can get very heated, but these at least are held in common by all Muslims who even I with my liberal point of view would consider to actually be people practicing Islam: Performing prayers, fasting during Ramadan, giving charity, making the Hajj if able. The Five Pillars are fard, specifically fardh al-'ayn, the individual duties. As you can see I hesitate to put the shahada on there, though, because if it's been said you're a Muslim and it's done already. But the belief expressed in it (there is no God but God and Muhammad is his messenger) is, I suppose you could say, the fard-est thing in Islam, the fundamental idea upon which the whole thing is built. Like, so fard that you don't even think about it being that because if you don't think it, what the hell are you doing and why are you calling it Islam. Usually instead of the shahada in the sense of fard, what I've read is more focus on one's aqidah or creed. That gets us to the Pillars of Belief, which is a separate thing from the Five Pillars that are more about practice. I'm just going to steal the list from Wikipedia: 1. Belief in Allah, the one and only one worthy of all worship 2. Belief in the Angels 3. Belief in the Books sent by God (including the Qur'an). 4. Belief in all the Prophets and Messengers sent by God 5. Belief in the Day of Judgment and in the Resurrection. Sunni add a sixth: 6. Belief in Destiny (Fate). The Shi'a groups I've read about reject the idea of predestination and hold to the idea of bada' instead, which I agree with. Bada' basically boils down to say that Allah has not created a fixed history. Morteza Motahhari put it fairly clearly: quote:God has not fixed a definite and final form for the course of human history. In other words, God Says to man: "You yourselves are in charge of the fulfilment of Divine Destiny, and it is you who can advance, stop or reverse the course of history." There is no blind determinism either on the part of nature or the means of life or from the viewpoint of Divine Destiny, to rule over history.” Tendai fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 15:41
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ashgromnies posted:Can you go into some of the specifics of the 10% that's held in common? Its important first to understand that Shari'ah is not monolithic. It may be very different for different people, in different times, different countries and different circumstances. However, as I said, roughly 10% of the laws of Shari'ah are both universal and cannot change. Things that cannot change in Shari'ah are like the 5 pillars of Islam. Lets take the Shahaddah (first pillar of Islam). "There is no god but The God. Muhammad is his Last Messenger." Shari'ah would dictate that anyone who wants to become a Muslim confess and conform to this as the entry point of the religion and have at least 2 witnesses. It also would dictate that violating the ideology of the Shahaddah is how one would ultimately become a disbeliever. To establish Salat (formal prayer) not just in our personal lives but communal lives. Shari'ah would dictate that a community of believers (typically 3 or more) establish communal prayers rather than exclusively staying at home to pray formal prayers. It also allows shortened formal prayers for the sick or travellers. The Zakat (2.5% wealth tax on unused income). Shari'ah would dictate that it is mandatory as part of a pillar of Islam, it is 2.5% of residual wealth, taxable on all Muslims financially able, it is not to go to support the mosque or collections institutions but go directly to the poor. These are 3 of the 5 pillars, but I think without going through the rest that I can make my point. These are religious mandates that cannot change as they are central to the faith and mandated by Allah and are core elements in Shari'ah regarding the "religious" aspects of a Muslim's life. Shari'ah may expound more in detail on these items according to the group of Muslims it is servicing (depending on madhab or "school of thought"). Everyone's Shari'ah (or law) encodes these ideals into "pillars" that make up the faith and define those who follow the faith. They are held in common among all sects of Muslims and despite other stark differences, these do not change across the board regardless of time, technology, or group of people. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 15:59
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So I guess part of the refutation would be "I can see how Muslims giving to charity would offend you" except the people who post that kind of thing probably don't get sarcasm 
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Oct 14, 2015 16:29
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If a muslim does something that is forbidden, say eat pork, on accient. Is it still conseidered a sin? If it is not an accident, just a "I want to eat bacon, just once so I know what I'm missing out on", is there some kind of ritual or other way to cancel out the sin? Some kind of 30 days of extra prayers and donate X amounts to charity, and Allah will pretend your bacon eating never happened?
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Oct 14, 2015 16:35
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BattyKiara posted:If a muslim does something that is forbidden, say eat pork, on accient. Is it still conseidered a sin? If it is not an accident, just a "I want to eat bacon, just once so I know what I'm missing out on", is there some kind of ritual or other way to cancel out the sin? Some kind of 30 days of extra prayers and donate X amounts to charity, and Allah will pretend your bacon eating never happened? There is no formal repentance process in Islam like in, say, Catholicism with the cycle of confession. There is only individual repentance in whatever shape that takes, called tawbah. This can involve making payments to a victim, or doing charity, or simply praying, it's up to the situation and the person or people involved, but the important thing is that it must be genuine in whatever form it takes. The intent is what matters rather than the form that your repentance takes. So if someone ate bacon because they really wanted to try, and they did it knowingly, their repentance is between them and Allah and no one can say if they will or won't be forgiven. The Qur'an makes it pretty scrupulously clear that only Allah has the power to judge whether someone has been forgiven and the magnitude of their wrongdoing, which leaves (in my mind) places that would imprison you for possessing alcohol or whatever kind of in a theological area that doesn't make sense to me. Tendai fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 17:02
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Since you brought up alcohol, how are recreational drugs viewed?
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Oct 14, 2015 18:27
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BattyKiara posted:Since you brought up alcohol, how are recreational drugs viewed? That being said, I view it in terms of the Qur'an, which makes two major points that I remember offhand. Al-Baqara 219 says that "in them (wine/gambling) is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." An-Nisa 43 talks about it in relation to prayer: "Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say." I take that to mean essentially "It's not forbidden but it's better not to, and if you do, do it in moderation and don't do anything serious when you're not in a state of sober judgement." That's how I feel about pretty much everything, not to mention drugs, tobacco and alcohol, and it's the view I take. Islam is pretty open about pointing out that if a thing is helpful, Allah is merciful; for me, marijuana helps with anxiety in a more pleasant way than something like Xanax, so I think it's fine. That doesn't mean I'm a-okay with people making weed the center of their lives, that strikes me as incredibly unhealthy, just the way someone making their sexual fetish the focal point of their life would.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:46
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Tendai posted:In the US that REALLY depends on where you are. Like New Mexico, where I am, I imagine the biggest two cities have a Middle Eastern food market of some kind that has halal foods, maybe a couple restaurants, but that's likely it. Bigger cities with bigger Muslim populations have more, obviously, but I can't think of any like, franchised nationwide restaurants that specifically have halal options or anything. Yes, halal food can be found in Albuquerque and not even at big Middle Eastern places. A mini mart near where I used to live had halal meat for sale. Then again it was a handful of blocks from the local Islamic center. I don't go to Santa Fe nearly often enough to say what they have there but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had a few places. But there should be enough of a Jewish population that getting kosher meat doesn't seem like it would be hard as a substitute. Lord Zedd-Repulsa fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:21
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LivesInGrey posted:Yes, halal food can be found in Albuquerque and not even at big Middle Eastern places. A mini mart near where I used to live had halal meat for sale. Then again it was a handful of blocks from the local Islamic center. I don't go to Santa Fe nearly often enough to say what they have there but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they had a few places. But there is enough of a Jewish population that getting kosher meat doesn't seem like it would be hard. I know that what's kosher, meat-wise, is also halal. The Taos area, however, is a bit more sparse. I just drive down to Albuquerque or up to Colorado every now and then with a cooler and ice and bring back meat to freeze, luckily I don't eat much of it.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:33
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I've always found the Qur'an fascinating because it's a mix of a religious text and a formal book of law- it's significantly more developed and integrated than other Religious-Legal systems. I used to live in Malaysia (narrowly majority Muslim) and there was official Sharia legislation that applied to Muslims only e.g. a mixed Chinese-Malay friend would always get IDd trying to buy alcohol because he "looked Muslim". Sharia Law kinda seems to work under the assumption that it is the dominant law of the land, which leads to some weird real-life consequences. How do you deal with this in a minority Muslim country? What happens when Islamic law contradicts the law of the land?
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Oct 15, 2015 23:25
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I've always found the Qur'an fascinating because it's a mix of a religious text and a formal book of law- it's significantly more developed and integrated than other Religious-Legal systems. I used to live in Malaysia (narrowly majority Muslim) and there was official Sharia legislation that applied to Muslims only e.g. a mixed Chinese-Malay friend would always get IDd trying to buy alcohol because he "looked Muslim". Sharia Law kinda seems to work under the assumption that it is the dominant law of the land, which leads to some weird real-life consequences. How do you deal with this in a minority Muslim country? What happens when Islamic law contradicts the law of the land? My answer to that is, you do your best. I have no idea if there are any banks run along Islamic financial principles in the US that are FDIC insured and whatnot, and google was not immediately clear. I know some banks in areas of the US with big Muslim populations offer accounts that work along Islamic lines but to be honest I have no idea. Considering the general idea of Islam being somewhat more fluid than people realize, I'm fairly sure no one would assume Allah is damning anyone for not having the luck to be born in a place with Islamic-backed banks. I'd hope not, at least.Was there another scenario you were thinking of? That's all I could imagine offhand.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:31
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I'm thinking along Malaysian lines, so I admit I'm not entirely sure how much of this is actual Islam and how much is political policy disguised behind faith but for example, what happens if somebody wants to convert away from Islam? What happens if they want to be cremated? How does the community deal with it? Re laws, I was thinking more like France's Hijab ban. There was a lot of post-9/11 backlash against Muslims in Western countries, and some of that crept into the legislature. on a lighter note, do you have an app on your phone that points towards Mecca and lets you know when it's time to pray? I knew a bunch of people with that and it always made me smile. The future is cool.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:47
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Shari'ah only is fully enforceable in a Muslim majority land and only if Muslims desire it. We have shari'ah councils in the west but they are only consultative, not legally enforceable. Shari'ah always demands that we abide by our oaths of citizenship in all countries (whether born into it or immigrated to it), even non-muslim ones. So, we must abide by all of the laws, unless they are laws requiring us to violate the core tenets of faith (5 pillars, etc). The hijab ban in France, may be repressive and intolerant of a modesty requirement (standard) for Muslim women, but wearing a hijab is not a pillar of Islam in the end. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:21
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Like Amun Khonsu said, shariah is only enforceable where Muslims rule and if they want it. So there's no legal system for it in place, whether enmeshed in the regular justice system or an outside religious court that runs in parallel. Every mosque or study center I've been to, if someone had said they were converting away, there would have been questions and sadness and probably pressure from many people, but not any binding Thing Everyone Must Do To The Apostate. His views on the French hijab question are mine as well; it's not something that's imperative to Islam or anything. It is pretty goddamn stupid though, in my point of view, and I think it probably as an issue distracts from the ACTUAL issues that Muslim immigrants to France face, ranging from racism against them to cultural practices like coerced marriages. The veil is an easy target, changing the tradition behind it is a whole lot harder and they chose to avoid that. I don't have one of those apps but I think it's really kind of cool -- I'm a dork like that though, the fact that my Galaxy S5 can read my fingerprint still fills me with a sense of stupid delight.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:34
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Hi Islam thread! I would welcome any interested to also visit the Liturgical Christianity thread in this subforum, which I guess I'm sorta representing one aspect of as a Lutheran. We are all about silly hats and friendly theological discussion, feel free to ask/tell us most anything. There's a very broad range of Christians who are all huge religion nerds and love learning more about our faiths A couple of questions and requests: 1. Lutheranism is sort of the OG Protestantism that first successfully broke from the Roman Catholic Church (early-mid 1500s). To a very large extent, the success of the Protestant Reformation in Christianity was due to the use of the printing press and widespread distribution of writings and pamphlets. It was also mostly a German and Scandinavian movement. I'm wondering to what extent do global Muslims consider themselves unified? Christians occasionally talk of a (small "c") catholic Church of all believers, is there a common belief that Sunni, Shia (and others!) share a similar path to salvation? On a superficial level it seems like Western and Eastern Christianity are analogous to Sunni and Shia Islam as they recognize different sets of secular figures as authoritative. Western Christianity emphasizes the primacy of Rome and uses Latin in its liturgy while Eastern Christianity is heavily Greek/Slavic and historically dominated by Constantinople (now Istanbul). 2. To what extent did the printing press affect Islam and the spread of specific hadiths and commentaries on the Quran? 3. Post silly hats and music thanks~ Edit: Islam you have officially been challenged on silly hats. BRING IT. Edit2: one of the main divisions between Protestant and Catholic Christianity is in how we perceive the importance of faith vs. "works" (living our lives as Jesus Christ did, following the laws). How do Muslims value faith and belief vs. abiding by law and living our lives according to scripture? Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 04:05
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Pellisworth posted:I'm wondering to what extent do global Muslims consider themselves unified? Christians occasionally talk of a (small "c") catholic Church of all believers, is there a common belief that Sunni, Shia (and others!) share a similar path to salvation? The big difference is that there is no unifying Pope/Patriarch figure in Islam. You can't say "All Shi'a listen to so and so" or "all Sunni do this as opposed to all Shi'a who do this" because even within those categories things break down and it's more dependent on what school of thought you follow, what scholar you agree with, and a lot of other things. I keep erasing and re-writing things because I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but getting to that last part... You can kind of relate it to the Catholic/Protestant split in Europe, only imagine that this happened almost immediately after Christ's death rather than 1000+ years later. Shi'a believe that religious authority should have come down through the descendants of Muhammad, while Sunni went with an elected caliphate after his death. This is a huge oversimplification because in the time between that initial succession argument and now, there have been further splits within each sect about how it should be handled in terms of succession through the ages. A sayyid is a man who claims or is accepted to be a descendant of Muhammad, for example, and according to one book I have there are likely somewhere in the tens of millions of them alive at this point, so it's a lot more complex than it was immediately after the prophet's death. Pellisworth posted:2. To what extent did the printing press affect Islam and the spread of specific hadiths and commentaries on the Quran? quote:Meanwhile, in the Muslim world itself, manuscripts remained in normal use. Because scribal culture was more pervasive and better established there than it had ever been in Christian Europe, Muslims were more comfortable with it, and saw no immediate need to adopt printing presses for book production, even after others had done so
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Oct 16, 2015 04:22
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I'mma sleep soon so I'll bug you all with some more questions and replies shortly, however:Tendai posted:Officially we are all considered part of the umma More or less the same in Christianity; when we recite the Apostle's Creed we pray for the (little "c") catholic Church of all Christian believers (as opposed to the Roman Catholic Church  ). History of course suggests we're not that tolerant.  Tendai posted:The big difference is that there is no unifying Pope/Patriarch figure in Islam. You can't say "All Shi'a listen to so and so" or "all Sunni do this as opposed to all Shi'a who do this" because even within those categories things break down and it's more dependent on what school of thought you follow, what scholar you agree with, and a lot of other things. I keep erasing and re-writing things because I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but getting to that last part... Tendai posted:The first Arabic printing press wasn't created till around the mid-1700s if I remember right, so I don't think it had quite the jarring impact that the printing press did in Europe with regard to religion. Ah, yep. Here's an excerpt from a presentation by Geoffrey Roper, a Middle East scholar specializing in manuscripts and related stuff: Edit: also Martin Luther's star moment was translating the Christian Bible into German (the vernacular language of the people). From a Protestant Christian perspective, the Roman Christian church had become too focused on worldly wealth and power in Rome. While Muslims learn Arabic to study Koran, European peasants didn't know what the gently caress while priests recited services in Latin, a dead language. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 05:02
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I just realized I have now idea how to appropriately spell your holy book. Koran Quran and apostrophes? help
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Oct 16, 2015 05:10
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Pellisworth posted:I just realized I have now idea how to appropriately spell your holy book. The most common romanizations I see are Quran, Koran or Qur'an; they're all really pronounced the same but the ' indicates the hamzah, the glottal stop. It seems the most accurate of the three major romanizations because of that so it's what I use. Romanizing Arabic is a tricky business.Pellisworth posted:Edit:
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Oct 16, 2015 05:21
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Tendai posted:This IS a really big difference. Every Muslim is encouraged to read the Qur'an; hell, we are encouraged to memorize it and people who do are called hafiz/hafiza. And if you are good enough, you can take it to the championships! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Quran_Recital_Competition Here's this year's winner. In all seriousness, this is pretty cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqXMKyfBLaM Sadly, dude died in the stampede on the Hajj last month.
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Oct 16, 2015 06:04
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How do you judge that? Speed of recitation? Best delivery? Accuracy?
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Oct 16, 2015 06:55
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Khizan posted:How do you judge that? Speed of recitation? Best delivery? Accuracy? Melody, accuracy, delivery, and how emotive you are. I used to participate in these when I was a young man, at our neighborhood mosque. Elissimpark posted:Sadly, dude died in the stampede on the Hajj last month. While death is sad, dying during the Hajj is one of the best things, because apparently you continue to perform the Hajj until Judgement Day, collecting all the good stuff that happens from the Hajj from now until whenever. It's considered dying during a jihad (all deaths that happen in the course of doing something religious is a jihad, it's not all about war), so basically you've got it made, in terms of the rewards you receive in the afterlife. My paternal grandfather passed away during the Hajj when I was about 7 or 8 (twenty odd years ago?) so every once in a while someone brings up how lucky he is. Zakmonster fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 07:27
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Zakmonster posted:While death is sad, dying during the Hajj is one of the best things, because apparently you continue to perform the Hajj until Judgement Day, collecting all the good stuff that happens from the Hajj from now until whenever. It's considered dying during a jihad (all deaths that happen in the course of doing something religious is a jihad, it's not all about war), so basically you've got it made, in terms of the rewards you receive in the afterlife. I mentioned this to my wife and she frowned at me and said that dying on the Hajj is like having 12 kids or more (or possibly dying in childbirth on your nth kid) insomuch as it takes you straight to Paradise. At least, that's what she remembers from school. I like the idea of perpetual Hajj though! Is this in the Quran or is it hadith? Speaking of sources, I remember reading that on the Day of Judgment anyone guilty of making images of living things will be commanded to bring those images to life. Of course, not being Allah, they'll fail. Now I've heard that either you'll be thrown into Hell with the images or else Allah will breathe life into them and they'll be the ones tormenting you in Hell. Can anyone confirm if this is actually a thing or just one of those odd things that have sprung up in parallel, like the role of the Devil in Christianity?
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Oct 16, 2015 09:06
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Pellisworth posted:Yeah, politics seems to play a huge role both in early Islam and Christianity. There were a number of councils called to debate early Christian doctrine and that's largely where the major theological divides develop. As much as I'd like to think I'm distant from Rome, holy crap has my exposure to Orthodox Christianity made me realize that the more significant divide is between Eastern and Western Christianity (which again I think is largely due to how the Roman Empire collapsed) quote:Again this is probably a big difference between scriptures that are an oral recitation and ones that are constantly translated texts. Martin Luther didn't have earth-shaking ideas out of nowhere, he was largely building on the legacies of Jan Hus (Czech) and John Wycliffe (English). The Reformation was successful because Martin Luther was a huge goonlord who couldn't resist posting a lengthy academic disputation of official Roman Catholic doctrine (95 theses but ________ ain't one). Cue invention of printing press spreading his and other Christian reformers ideas across Europe. Tendai posted:This IS a really big difference. Every Muslim is encouraged to read the Qur'an; hell, we are encouraged to memorize it and people who do are called hafiz/hafiza. Edit: My mother is Catholic and she's always wanted to die during Mass, but not because she'll then do it forever, because of the grace that it would bring. She also envies the people whose bones built the Central European ossuary churches, because they'll always be part of a Mass. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 09:24
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Can someone tell me more about the Alawites? I've seen them referred to as Shia a lot in the media, but I've also heard them described as being seen as kind of like Christians see Mormons.
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Oct 16, 2015 10:03
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HEY GAL posted:i think it's also that your religion is way less focused on rituals than, like, the Orthodox church. It's a good thing if you can read the bible, but you can also put icons in the eastern side of your room and light candles and pray, etc. Similarly, while Protestants regard their church meetings as a place to receive instruction and hear the Bible read, and now Catholics do too thanks to a bunch of stuff, Orthodox regard the Liturgy as valuable for itself, and you can participate in it if you want. In the really big churches you can find a bunch of people praying off to the side, etc., while the Liturgy is going on. It's spiritually valuable just to be there. Hobelhouse posted:Can someone tell me more about the Alawites? I've seen them referred to as Shia a lot in the media, but I've also heard them described as being seen as kind of like Christians see Mormons. Honestly, I find them really fascinating. The mix of different philosophies into something that at the same time is noticeably descended from Islam is pretty interesting to me from a historical/social standpoint even if I don't believe in it myself. It's one of those areas where I would hesitate to call them Muslims (sort of like with the Nation of Islam) simply because their beliefs diverge so far from Islam as it's written and practiced that I don't know if they can be considered the same thing. Comparing them to Mormons in terms of "You are obviously descended from this but I'm not sure what you've done with it in the interim" is probably pretty close.
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Oct 16, 2015 16:14
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If it's time to pray and you don't know the direction of Mecca in your current situation, what is the recommended course of action?
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Oct 16, 2015 16:40
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goose fleet posted:If it's time to pray and you don't know the direction of Mecca in your current situation, what is the recommended course of action?
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Oct 16, 2015 16:48
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Are you supposed to do the shortest great circle route. i.e. due north if you're in Alaska?
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Oct 16, 2015 16:55
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P-Mack posted:Are you supposed to do the shortest great circle route. i.e. due north if you're in Alaska? quote:In recent years, Muslims from North America have used two rules to determine the direction of the Qiblah. According to spherical calculations, a Muslim praying from Anchorage, Alaska would pray almost due north if determining the Qiblah. However, when one looks at the world on most Mercator map projections, Mecca appears to be southeast of Anchorage. The shortest rhumb line (line of constant bearing) from most points in North America to Mecca will point toward the southeast, but the distance to Mecca along this route on the actual surface of the earth is longer than the great circle route. EDIT: If you wanted to be really weird, if there was an oil rig or something northeast of New Zealand in the South Pacific, could they technically lay face-down on the ground since that's the antipode to Mecca? Tendai fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 16:59
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Tendai posted:EDIT: If you wanted to be really weird, if there was an oil rig or something northeast of New Zealand in the South Pacific, could they technically lay face-down on the ground since that's the antipode to Mecca? assuming (which i do) that you guys are basically iron filings under a magnet
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Oct 16, 2015 17:04
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