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Condiv posted:p much. i view vietnam vets as victims of a cynical and brutal government. i cannot fault people for trying to find a way out of that meatgrinder I don't really fault much of anyone for lying to get out of war. Unless they then seek office and vote to send people to war or try to become the commander in chief.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:29
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Rygar201 posted:As near as I can tell, Bernie was too old to have been in the Vietnam draft lotteries anyway. He was born in 41. Incorrect. The anti-draft movement was already in full swing in 1963, because people had already been drafted for Vietnam fighting. He was 22 then. Condiv posted:continuing the goddamn patriot act for one, throwing snowden in jail for uncovering the NSA's BS for two Your hero Bernie Sanders says that Snowden must be punished too, dude. That means jail.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:30
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She went anti Snowden, didn't mention Glass Steagal in her responses by name at all, told Wall Street to "cut it out", and I'm not sure because I was late to the debate and watching with a hundred people but did she even mention Climate Change at all?? I just can't see how any self described progressive can be behind her.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:30
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zoux posted:Which neoliberal policies are those? Well our drone policies, the NSA spying, the pro-wallstreet laws, the non-prosecution of the people who caused the financial meltdown to begin with, the persecution of the occupy protesters just to name a few.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:30
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ratbert90 posted:Well our drone policies, the NSA spying, the pro-wallstreet laws, the non-prosecution of the people who caused the financial meltdown to begin with, the persecution of the occupy protesters just to name a few. Guess what: a hypothetical Bernie presidency wouldn't do anything about those either. Bernie's on record saying he'd use drones.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:31
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zoux posted:Guess what: a hypothetical Bernie presidency wouldn't do anything about those either. At least he would try.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:32
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ratbert90 posted:At least he would try. If you wonder why no one takes Bernie or his supporters seriously...
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Oct 14, 2015 15:32
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I actually became a bernie fan because of the debate last night. I mean I'll be voting for the democrat nominee regardless, but I'm voting for bernie in the primary right now.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:33
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Nintendo Kid posted:Incorrect. The anti-draft movement was already in full swing in 1963, because people had already been drafted for Vietnam fighting. He was 22 then. his response was a ton more measured than hillary's which was just "he's gotta face the music for his crimes". I can believe that sanders would commute punishment for snowden. personally i think snowden should be charged and then pardoned considering his crimes were in the national interest, and bernie is much closer to that than hillary, so yeah, better.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:34
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mlmp08 posted:I don't really fault much of anyone for lying to get out of war. Unless they then seek office and vote to send people to war or try to become the commander in chief.  Seriously Mitt is a huge poo poo.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:35
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Mr. Nice! posted:I actually became a bernie fan because of the debate last night. I mean I'll be voting for the democrat nominee regardless, but I'm voting for bernie in the primary right now. This is cool, I'll be voting for a military general for President because I am a militarist wanker. Mr. Nice! posted:Snowden was compromised by the ruskies and gave them all sorts of poo poo. His "whistleblowing" wasn't some noble endeavor, but rather his cover for effectively being a russian double agent. Now he's outlived his usefulness for them and realizes he's stuck in a shithole in Russia and wants to come back home. To be fair his really lovely SO reunited with him in Russia, his one major original regret I remember, so he only wants to come home to continue working on what he's been able to do, so there really isn't an incentive, from a pol's perspective, to be forgiving of him and allowing him easy return. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 15:35
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Condiv posted:his response was a ton more measured than hillary's which was just "he's gotta face the music for his crimes". I can believe that sanders would commute punishment for snowden. personally i think snowden should be charged and then pardoned considering his crimes were in the national interest, and bernie is much closer to that than hillary, so yeah, better. Snowden was compromised by the ruskies and gave them all sorts of poo poo. His "whistleblowing" wasn't some noble endeavor, but rather his cover for effectively being a russian double agent. Now he's outlived his usefulness for them and realizes he's stuck in a shithole in Russia and wants to come back home.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:36
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I don't see Bernie as winning in the general, mostly because he'll get nailed about his use of the word Socialist and his lack of credible foreign policy experience. I'll be voting for him in any primary I can, but to me his entire purpose and where he shines is by bringing populist and left-leaning policies into the discussion, drawing whoever the Dem candidate is to the left of center. I am worried that he seemed to be the only candidate at the debate that took climate change seriously, though.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:37
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Condiv posted:p much. i view vietnam vets as victims of a cynical and brutal government. i cannot fault people for trying to find a way out of that meatgrinder That plus the overall papering-over of the harm caused by that war manifested in the government's broad lack of support for veterans economically and mentally. I'm not sure how medical care was then, but it's a shambles now and that can definitely be lumped in since there are plenty of Vietnam veterans alive and dealing with the lingering effects of their service. Fireant posted:She went anti Snowden, didn't mention Glass Steagal in her responses by name at all, told Wall Street to "cut it out", and I'm not sure because I was late to the debate and watching with a hundred people but did she even mention Climate Change at all?? I just can't see how any self described progressive can be behind her. She made a pretty big point about how broader themes and single issues aren't always equivalent, specifically mentioning KXL/climate change and saying she'd been a long-term advocate of the environment and had basically been right there with Gore (not mentioning him by name but essentially saying she's been in that camp since before it was cool) despite being late to the party on KXL. It was, as everything else, such a Hillary answer. FAUXTON fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 15:37
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Fireant posted:told Wall Street to "cut it out" Was in my mind her weakest response. It is really weird when she talks at a lower level. Or maybe she had a brain fart. I guess either are possible.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:38
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Also the internet is super mad about her "I'm a woman" thing
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Oct 14, 2015 15:38
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Condiv posted:his response was a ton more measured than hillary's which was just "he's gotta face the music for his crimes". I can believe that sanders would commute punishment for snowden. personally i think snowden should be charged and then pardoned considering his crimes were in the national interest, and bernie is much closer to that than hillary, so yeah, better. The problem with Snowden is that even if his heart was in the right place (?) he could have been a whistleblower without just handing people's personal info out to a bunch of media outlets and foreign leakers. He did it all wrong.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:39
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Was anyone else really impressed with O'Malley's performance? Out of the bottom three, I was impressed the most by him. I'm terrified of Webb.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:39
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SquadronROE posted:Was anyone else really impressed with O'Malley's performance? Out of the bottom three, I was impressed the most by him. I'm terrified of Webb. I think he had the best arguments on gun control, but that's about it. He also accused Sanders of not being an "East Coast man".
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Oct 14, 2015 15:40
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fits my needs posted:I am excited to see what the Sanderistas will do when Bernie loses. Hodgepodge posted:How dare they want a women President. I want a woman President, too. I just want that candidate to not be a member of a political dynasty and beholden to Finance industry. Hillary couldn't even stand on stage last night and say "yes, I believe we should break up the big banks." If Warren were running, Sanders would be a nonstarter for me.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:41
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O'Malley's bullshit on how Baltimore wasn't his fault and he kept people safe was ridiculous and after that alone I don't see how anyone could take him seriously.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:42
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Gravel Gravy posted:Was in my mind her weakest response. Nah it was when she said out loud "I represented wall street". Why would you give that soundbite 
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Oct 14, 2015 15:42
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SquadronROE posted:Was anyone else really impressed with O'Malley's performance? Out of the bottom three, I was impressed the most by him. I'm terrified of Webb. He surprised me, given that I had no idea who he was. He actually kept up with Hillary and Bernie.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:42
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I feel like a lot of media dealig with Vietnam Vets from the 70s and 80s depicted the medical care they would get as very bad. But that's all stuff I remember from books, and movies.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:42
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SquadronROE posted:Was anyone else really impressed with O'Malley's performance? Out of the bottom three, I was impressed the most by him. I'm terrified of Webb. I think he did a good job separating himself from the "other guys" pack and making it look like he was actually part of the debate with Hillary and Bernie. I imagine that might give him a small boost in the polls. But I don't think he had a breakout as a major candidate or anything. He just kind of lived to fight another day while Webb and Chafee should really be walking away now with what's left of their dignity.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:42
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Nah it was when she said out loud "I represented wall street". Why would you give that soundbite Donor dollars.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:44
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Gravel Gravy posted:Was in my mind her weakest response. Bernie's Rove move when he said shouting wouldn't solve anything.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:44
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SquadronROE posted:I don't see Bernie as winning in the general, mostly because he'll get nailed about his use of the word Socialist and his lack of credible foreign policy experience. I'll be voting for him in any primary I can, but to me his entire purpose and where he shines is by bringing populist and left-leaning policies into the discussion, drawing whoever the Dem candidate is to the left of center. This is pretty much where I stand on Bernie. I don't think he'd be effective at implementing his platform, but he can get more effective actors to implement some of it for him. SquadronROE posted:Was anyone else really impressed with O'Malley's performance? Out of the bottom three, I was impressed the most by him. I'm terrified of Webb. O'Malley clearly practiced his winning smile, but kept doing it at inappropriate times, like when talking about victims of gun violence. But he was definitely the winner out of the bottom tier. Webb is a giant thumb with bad opinions and I don't understand why he's even running.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:44
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Mr. Nice! posted:O'Malley's bullshit on how Baltimore wasn't his fault and he kept people safe was ridiculous and after that alone I don't see how anyone could take him seriously. His story about the fire bombed Baltimore family seemed like his Jeb! "kept us safe" moment to me. Unless he was going for an Aaron Eckhart "darkest before dawn" Dark Knight speech. I use a lot of analogies.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:45
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Mr. Nice! posted:Snowden was compromised by the ruskies and gave them all sorts of poo poo. His "whistleblowing" wasn't some noble endeavor, but rather his cover for effectively being a russian double agent. Now he's outlived his usefulness for them and realizes he's stuck in a shithole in Russia and wants to come back home. Did I like really miss a critical piece of news or am I getting Poe'd?
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Oct 14, 2015 15:47
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I dunno. O'Malley's experiences in dealing with a hostile city filled with corrupt people may translate well to dealing with Congress.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:47
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fits my needs posted:I am excited to see what the Sanderistas will do when Bernie loses. dta
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Oct 14, 2015 15:47
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It will be ironic if there's a huge PUMA movement but against Hillary this time.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:49
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Mr. Nice! posted:Snowden was compromised by the ruskies and gave them all sorts of poo poo. His "whistleblowing" wasn't some noble endeavor, but rather his cover for effectively being a russian double agent. Now he's outlived his usefulness for them and realizes he's stuck in a shithole in Russia and wants to come back home. if he gave intelligence to the russians that was harmful to the interests of the american public then yeah i support some jail time for him, but i still think his sentence should be commuted in light of the overwhelming good his actions had for the american public
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Oct 14, 2015 15:49
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Condiv posted:if he gave intelligence to the russians that was harmful to the interests of the american public then yeah i support some jail time for him, but i still think his sentence should be commuted in light of the overwhelming good his actions had for the american public
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Oct 14, 2015 15:50
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I am not a book posted:Did I like really miss a critical piece of news or am I getting Poe'd? How do you think he bought his living arrangement in Russia? Do you really think that Vlad Putin helped him out because he has a soft spot for persecuted noble idealists?
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Oct 14, 2015 15:53
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FAUXTON posted:also Google search graphs without a "holy gently caress Webb loving killed a guy" entry are fake. Hieronymous Alloy posted:Join Jim Webb's death-or-glory killsquads Gravel Gravy posted:Which made Webb's "I killed a guy" response seem all the stranger. gradenko_2000 posted:I didn't get to watch the debate, but holy poo poo Jim Webb killed a guy?! greatn posted:Now, now he just said the guy who shot him isn't around anymore. Maybe that guy died peacefully in his sleep a couple months ago. Let's add some context here http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=4226 quote:
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Oct 14, 2015 15:54
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Condiv posted:if he gave intelligence to the russians that was harmful to the interests of the american public then yeah i support some jail time for him, but i still think his sentence should be commuted in light of the overwhelming good his actions had for the american public His actions in revealing a program that had been publicly approved by congress years earlier? The NSA has been spying on its own citizens since the patriot act and Snowden didn't particularly reveal anything new. He isn't a hero. Note that I'm not saying I agree with the domestic spying that the NSA does.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:54
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Zeroisanumber posted:How do you think he bought his living arrangement in Russia? Do you really think that Vlad Putin helped him out because he has a soft spot for persecuted noble idealists? It was a low-cost move that embarrassed the US.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:55
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Zeroisanumber posted:How do you think he bought his living arrangement in Russia? Do you really think that Vlad Putin helped him out because he has a soft spot for persecuted noble idealists? It is in Putin's best interest to make it known to would be "whistleblowers" that revealing a bunch of classified information to the world (or preferably just Russia) gets you a comfy if potentially boring life in Russia. Does Snowden legitimately want back to the US? I interpreted his actions as trying to stay in the news but considering what he did he may be dumb enough to think that he's not permanently exiled himself.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:56
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